Yup. Infact, I remember clearly Wilfried Zaha appreciating the fact that LvG was honest with him when he said that Zaha wasn't needed at United.
LvG and his ruthless streak
- Thread starter Robbie Boy
- Start date
Valdez humiliated himself by not playing. What exactly did LVG do wrong here in this situation?
Tom Cleverley said the same last week.
That's fair enough. We have to be careful though as RVP is a very articulate and clever boy who knows how to play the 'PR' game, so he's more than capable of planting what he wants people to believe about the situation. What's better for people to believe from his point of view - 1) he's no longer seen as an effective enough player or (2) His exit is all on LVG? I know which one looks better for him image wise.
Not saying LVG has behaved impeccably (we don't know that), but at the same time we can't just take one side of the story without knowing the other.
Personally, I think LVG told him he could stay but was not guaranteed a starting role. RVP thinks about this and the fact Euro 2016 is coming up and decides he needs to play to keep his place in his national team. Moreover, RVP like most football players has an ego and for sure would not like to hear he's not the 'main man'. Seems it's worked out for all parties.
Really liked RVP but not sure I 100% swallow what he's saying.
The journalists exploit his honesty with these kind of things and it could have a negative effect on his relationship with the players if he's not careful.
Explain how Valdes tweeted the 4 games in reserve? Well I don't doubt LvG was telling the truth. But unless the situation was so bad they fell out without talking to each other any more, as a manager, he should be bigger than telling tales.
What LvG has done he was trying to stamp authority on players but it seems a big high handed. He could just sell him on without explaining why.
Personally I liked the stern message it sent. The rest of the players now know that any lapses in professionalism may result in adverse consequences.
You are spot on mate. This is exactly my point! I think the fear every manager wants to generate on players should be used only with a sole aim of impacting the team/playing in a positive way.
To publicly humiliate players this way actually would appear like he couldn't resolve the matter privately. I don't believe VV is such a defiant figure who refused regardless knowing there will be consequences.
Really?! If the same incident had happened to say Di Maria or Rooney, I seriously doubt LvG would be telling tales in such a way. It really depends on which player is in defiant. For example I am sure DDG has said so many things and done so much to make LvG feel angry with him, but have you ever heard him say anything negative about DDG?
Well maybe DDG is not a good example because he has asked to leave. But you get my point @Raoul
I genuinely believe that no player will be exempt from LvG's wrath if they refuse to practice or otherwise run afoul of the rules. If he can dump his Netherlands WC captain then no one is safe.
He dumped his WC captain not because he was in defiant. It was because he no longer believed the captain is in his plan!
Moreover, I do believe that sometimes good management is not about threatening or publicly humiliating his players. It is how to put your arms around certain players' shoulders or using harsh actions etc depending on what works. I fear there will be nagetive impact in the dressing room if the manager is just highhanded no matter what.
Also bringing back to the point I made in another post above. There is absolutely no need to feed journos who want answers to every single question they ask. He did not need to explain every reason for his decisions or action. Trust should be built between the manager and players without unnecessary fear
Keano was saying that for years while he was still playing wiht us, that players were a piece of meat or something to that effect and would be turfed out.
I suspect LVG will prove his ruthlessness before the window finishes. Not just Di Maria but I expect at least one more surprising departure.
I have no doubt about this. People who are worried about Rooney getting a free ride simply because he's the captain, for instance, are worrying needlessly.
The point here, however, is whether it's necessary - or wise, in the long run - to wash dirty laundry in public, even when it's done to put a big headed player in his place.
What's the message? "If you don't act like a professional I will tell the media you're an unprofessional twat - and kick you out." Alright, fair enough. That's a stern message alright. But is it any better than simply kicking the player out, without providing the media with salacious details? The other players will know what's been going on regardless - managers don't communicate with their players through press conferences, after all.
To me, going public with something like this says something about the man - more than about the manager. I'm not surprised at all, it's nothing radically new in it, and as long as LVG does his job he can behave as he bloody well likes in public - it's not important at all. But I don't see it as a strength of his - that he's "honest" enough to share details like this with the media. It's a kind of "honesty" which tends to get you into trouble sooner or later.
Schweinsteiger for example pointed out he had worked with Louis van Gaal in the past and whilst he is tough at times, he wants to win and everything he does is towards that end, he feels that's where the two have something in common.
"No one is irreplaceable,not even me" -LVG (slightly paraphrasing).
He can do whatever the feck he wants with the team all in the name of philosophy, ultimately at the end of the season if there's no significant improvement from last season - in terms of winning a trophy or seriously contending for one (in May),that gun might/will be pointing at his direction.
He can do whatever the feck he wants with the team all in the name of philosophy, ultimately at the end of the season if there's no significant improvement from last season - in terms of winning a trophy or seriously contending for one (in May),that gun might/will be pointing at his direction.
My point exactly
Schweinsteiger is an intelligent footballer who would be saying things like this at a press conference unveiling him. What else would he have said?
Coming to a club where the manager is someone you have worked before is a strong plus for him but it's not necessarily like he's singing praise for LvG totally apparently.
Now time to appoint a new captain 
Well if Schweinsteiger doesn't like Louis van Gaal's management style then he can't be that intelligent joining United! Clearly he feels he's a manager who can win things.
It's a great message to send imo. If you don't want to be professional and give 100% you know where the door is.
If he didn't have a warmer, more personal side to him I'd be worried but the players and staff seem to love him.
What more can you ask for from a boss? If you're on the wrong side of him it no doubt means you're doing something that isn't helping yourself or the team.
Haha.... no one footballer on this planet earth would be denying LvG CAN win things!
LVG has turfed out a lot of players since his tenure began but he hasn't always given out statements like he did in VV case, why? It's because of the personal angle that is prevailing here, how he helped out Valdes with his rehab and how he gave him his break at Barca, just examples. He obviously expected more in the way of loyalty from Valdes and this ruthlessness reflects the depth of his disappointment, imo.
So what's the problem? Schweinsteiger said Louis van Gaal is a winner and that he too is a winner, he liked that in him.
The problem is, my friend, you seem to want to use Basti's comment of LvG (when asked by the Journo if LvG played a big part in shipping him to United...) to support your view that: LvG's ruthlessness is justifiable (or else Basti would not have joined us). I don't think Basti's example is really too relevant to our discussion here, is all.
Every player, every manager wants to win. It is their methods, attitude and approaches (on top of their respective talent and ability etc) which are making all the difference. That's my take.
Selling di maria isn't ruthless it's stupid.
You can't keep a guy who's constantly got a step out the door. If he is focused, he's a tremendous player but this constant flirtation with PSG is not good for either him or the club.
There's nothing to suggest this is the case, especially when you actually read di maria's thoughts on his first season.
Psg are just leaking sh*t to look important, they'll back out once they realise it will cost them and arm and a leg and then leak more nonsense on the lines of "United block di maria move, player not happy blah blah."
I think that given what LvG had done for Valdes, refusing to play in the reserves reflects really badly on the person. I think in offering him that 18mth contract, it was clear that LvG was signaling a step up in the working relationship. This was no longer a case of just helping in Valdes' rehab. Hence LvG was right to expect 100% professionalism, and probably right to basically ask Valdes to leave when those expectations were not met.
If a United player had tried to pull this off during Fergie's tenure, it would not have ended well for him either.
If a United player had tried to pull this off during Fergie's tenure, it would not have ended well for him either.
Fergie would've kicked out Valdes too, certainly. But then again what people have a problem with clearly isn't that Valdes was shown the door as such.
You're right, my wording didn't do him justice. I was probably thinking more about how unique it was than how successful, but I agree with your point.
I notice that it's the same set of people that criticize everything LVG does, for some people, he can't do anything right. Football, like most businesses is cut throat, and management is all about decision making, we criticized Moyes for not being ruthless, now we're criticizing LVG for being ruthless. The truth is that, RVP has been on the decline, and I remember LVG coping criticism here for continuing to pick him, I believe what LVG was doing that time was to give him a genuine chance to regain his form, that form never came back, we all wanted him to play Falcao, against Chelsea, Falcao was fitter and got the nod.
I don't know how else LVG was supposed to handle RVP situation, when many here accused him of some form of nepotism. RVP is simply no longer the player he used to be, especially at 32, Rooney is younger, is the captain and gets the nod, I'm sure this is what LVG would have told RVP and what club in their right mind would keep a back-up striker on 250k per week? I honestly don't know how some of you can't see beyond trying to be smart pricks that pick on every nothing story.
And lastly, the one about handling things in house as against public etc, well, LVG has done that very well since he has been at United, he has let go about 20 players but did not say anything negative about them, in fact he only had praise for Falcao and wished him well at Chelsea, the reason he spoke openly about Valdes was clear, he expected a high level of loyalty from Valdes and he did not get it, Van Gaal is a human being with emotions, and he reacted to that act of disloyalty like most of us would do, by moaning to listening ears! Most of us was wondering why he would leave Valdes out of the tour, that interview gave us clarity. If you think managers have the support or love of all their players then you really don't understand management, if LVG has the backing of 80% of the players [and i suspect that is the case] then that is fine. It's funny that many wanted RVP to be sold last season, and criticized LVG for playing him often [I remember people here saying he was getting game time because they are mates, close pals, etc], now that LVG made the decision to move him on, you now turn around and criticize him again, what exactly do people want?
I don't know how else LVG was supposed to handle RVP situation, when many here accused him of some form of nepotism. RVP is simply no longer the player he used to be, especially at 32, Rooney is younger, is the captain and gets the nod, I'm sure this is what LVG would have told RVP and what club in their right mind would keep a back-up striker on 250k per week? I honestly don't know how some of you can't see beyond trying to be smart pricks that pick on every nothing story.
And lastly, the one about handling things in house as against public etc, well, LVG has done that very well since he has been at United, he has let go about 20 players but did not say anything negative about them, in fact he only had praise for Falcao and wished him well at Chelsea, the reason he spoke openly about Valdes was clear, he expected a high level of loyalty from Valdes and he did not get it, Van Gaal is a human being with emotions, and he reacted to that act of disloyalty like most of us would do, by moaning to listening ears! Most of us was wondering why he would leave Valdes out of the tour, that interview gave us clarity. If you think managers have the support or love of all their players then you really don't understand management, if LVG has the backing of 80% of the players [and i suspect that is the case] then that is fine. It's funny that many wanted RVP to be sold last season, and criticized LVG for playing him often [I remember people here saying he was getting game time because they are mates, close pals, etc], now that LVG made the decision to move him on, you now turn around and criticize him again, what exactly do people want?
Ok, tell me what difference does it make saying it to the press or not, just one.
It makes a difference in terms of how people regard him - all sorts of people, including those he works with. Some of them may not care, others may think to themselves that this sort of thing is best dealt with behind closed doors.
If you do the latter (keeping it an in-house matter), nobody will ever question it or hold it against you. And the message to the players is the same: If you don't behave like a professional, you're out on your arse, no quarter given.
The players probably don't give a feck - and I personally don't think it's a big deal at all. But then again neither do I think it's a positive - as some people seemingly do.
Keeping a guy who can't get in the team ahead of Ashley Young when you could sell him for £50m+ is stupid.
I agree selling Di Maria won't be a sign of ruthlessness. It's an easy and obvious decision for a rational thinker. LVG will be ruthless with other players though - players who served him well last season will be shown the door if there is an available upgrade.
Well its positive from a fan / observer's point of view, on the basis that we have a better idea of what is happening. Its more interesting reading a story with more detail about precisely what is going on. People are interested in this stuff. I like it on that basis.
But I agree with you it is basically neutral - not positive or negative - from a purely football perspective. It is the principle that matters, and he's on the right side of this. The presentation is pretty much irrelevant.
I agree this kind of manner explains why he has so many public fallings out with people, but this has tended to be more with other figures within the management structures at the clubs he works out. He's had his issues with some players over the years but it is more striking that, on the whole, his players love him. So I dont think we have too much to worry about there. The bottom line is he is fair and he is consistent and his players appreciate that. They know where they stand with him.
It appears as though the ambitious Schweinsteiger thinks Louis van Gaal's methods, attitude and approach is going to lead to trophies.
And of course you don't think Schweinsteiger's example is relevant, it doesn't support your argument.
I tend to agree with that. Keeping him would be risking around £25m to £30m (because his value is going to drop by that much if we keep him and he's as poor as last season) on a player that has already shown that he finds it very difficult to settle here.
And the tendency is also that he falls out with management/upper hierarchy figures who interfere with the footballing side of things. Which is very unlikely to happen at United. So, unless Louis is the one to instigate trouble - we should be reasonably safe