LvG and his ruthless streak

[Adebesi]

Ruthless? Rooney has him by the balls.

Yeah I think a good measure for his ruthlessness will be how he handles Rooney if his league form continues. Not that he has many options of course. But a ruthless manager would drop him, even if it's to bring in Wilson or stick Fellaini up top.

My god I can't believe it's come to that.

 

[Earthquake]

I guess this isn't all on LvG, but regardless, quite staggering.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I just updated the list on the OP. Am I missing anyone.? We needed a clear out but this is madness.

 

[Robbie Boy]

So this is one thing that I had given LvG credit for before the season started. Now though, it looks like he has made some serious mistakes. I mean, feck me, they are no world beaters but I would take the likes of Nani and Welbeck back given the shite that has been served up this season and the fact the likes of Lingard are now starters for the first team.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Agreed. I was in favour of the clear-out as well but it had to be matched with A) getting the right replacements in and B) getting them to the necessary level.

We neither signed enough attackers nor got much out of the ones we had.

For example, what on earth was our plan for the right wing position? Was it really Juan Mata and Jesse Lingard? Really?!

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Ineffective streak of piss, more like

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yeah, when I started this thread in July, I was happy with some of the players that had left. But in saying that, it was July, so I expected some quality replacements to follow. What transpired was basically no replacements and we were then left with a far weaker squad.

 

[friendlytramp]

For example, what on earth was our plan for the right wing position? Was it really Juan Mata and Jesse Lingard? Really?!

Gareth bale

 

[Varun]

Gareth bale

Garrincha as well.

 

[Godfather]

Agreed. I was in favour of the clear-out as well but it had to be matched with A) getting the right replacements in and B) getting them to the necessary level.

We neither signed enough attackers nor got much out of the ones we had.

For example, what on earth was our plan for the right wing position? Was it really Juan Mata and Jesse Lingard? Really?!

Our right wing really is a fiasco. As is our CB and CM tbh

 

[Adebesi]

Has Woodward got a ruthless streak?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Has Woodward got a ruthless streak?

feck no!

 

[MoBeats]

Welbeck maybe but if it were a choice between him or Martial I'd take Martial every day of the week.
Nani was the most frustrating wasteful player, wasn't worth keeping him to see one piece of genius every 5 or 6 games.
We should've held onto RvP for a season.

 

[SirBobbysCombover]

Nani had like 1 effective season, its easy to look back with rose tinted specs

 

[Robbie Boy]

Welbeck maybe but if it were a choice between him or Martial I'd take Martial every day of the week.
Nani was the most frustrating wasteful player, wasn't worth keeping him to see one piece of genius every 5 or 6 games.
We should've held onto RvP for a season.

We definitely needed upgrades over pretty much every player that we let go. The point is that, those upgrades never arrived. Yes, Martial is a far better player than Welbeck but we could have easily used Welbeck this season. When I started this thread, I expected a-few quality signings that unfortunately never came to fruition, bar the excellent Martial.

So, yeah, we needed upgrades but why did he get rid of so many players with no fecking replacements and leave us with a weaker squad. It defies logic, but so does most of his tenure. The fact that I would have Nani and Welbeck back says it all as I don't rate either, to any considerable extent.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Nani had like 1 effective season, its easy to look back with rose tinted specs

Wrong. Nani was one of the best players in England for 1.5-2 years. After that he was inconsistent both with form and injuries, and before that he was very promising for his age (with a bad period in between?). It's revisionism at it's finest to claim he was some sort of dud for United. And even when he wasn't having a great season, he was always capable of having an excellent game.

The disappointment with Nani was that he couldn't keep his level which we saw during that 1.5-2 years going, and of course, the immense natural talent he had.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Nani had like 1 effective season, its easy to look back with rose tinted specs

Yup, I'm not a fan but I would have him back over fecking Lingard in a heartbeat. He also had far more than one good season.

 

[SirBobbysCombover]

Wrong. Nani was one of the best players in England for 1.5-2 years. After that he was inconsistent both with form and injuries, and before that he was very promising for his age (with a bad period in between?). It's revisionism at it's finest to claim he was some sort of dud for United. And even when he wasn't having a great season, he was always capable of having an excellent game.

The disappointment with Nani was that he couldn't keep his level which we saw during that 1.5-2 years going, and of course, the immense natural talent he had.

I didnt doubt his potential, just from memory he had 1 good season at our club. All the potential in the world and the most frustrating player at OT in memory.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I didnt doubt his potential, just from memory he had 1 good season at our club. All the potential in the world and the most frustrating player at OT in memory.

I wasn't talking about potential. Nani was a good player for us, whose time with us looks worse when see it in the context of his natural talent IMO.

In reality, he had good/ exciting early years, 1.5-2 proper cracking years intertwined with some bad patches like players usually have, and sadly ruined in the end by the way he faded away in terms of both form and injury. Disappointing compared to what could have been, but summing it up as 1 good year in a United career that spanned 6 years is extremely harsh.

 

[SirBobbysCombover]

I wasn't talking about potential. Nani was a good player for us, whose time with us looks worse when see it in the context of his natural talent IMO.

In reality, he had good/ exciting early years, 1.5-2 proper cracking years intertwined with some bad patches like players usually have, and sadly ruined in the end by the way he faded away in terms of both form and injury. Disappointing compared to what could have been, but summing it up as 1 good year in a United career that spanned 6 years is extremely harsh.

Potential, natural talent. "You say tomatoe I say tomato... potato, patato."

I'd say 1 good season-max not harsh just reality, then a few good games into the next season and back to his frustrating old-self IMO

 

[SirBobbysCombover]

Garrincha as well.

Jairzinho's in with a shout according to The Sun.

 

[Adebesi]

Im not sure if "revisionism" is the right word. There were plenty of debates at the time about his worth, his consistency and his decision making, they went on right the way through his time here. I remember because I got caught out once or twice making remarks that were deemed inflammatory and got jumped on by his fans.

I would say that even during that 1.5-2 years that people talk about, he was never seen as one of the best wingers in the league by anyone other than United fans. I think that is because, while he had it in him to be excellent, he wasnt amazingly consistent in that period. There was a thread about it at the time, about whether Nani was the best winger in the league, that he was was never a consensus opinion, even if it was a majority opinion on here.

That was the debate tho. Is he the best winger in the country (at a time when Bale was doing well but not, for me, getting due recognition on here, for what I felt at the time were partisan reasons). He was clearly very good, and a damn sight better than most of our options at the moment.

 

[gerdm07]

Nani had like 1 effective season, its easy to look back with rose tinted specs

Nani usually had a string of very good matches each season. His last was the last title. I remember him playing very well in October and November, RvP playing great in December, January and February, and then Valencia playing well to close the title. Nani was just so frustrating because of his inconsistency.

 

[prath92]

Nah all deserved to be sold. We needed better players than all of them. We didn't buy enough players. Our problem was that we didn't replace the players.

 

[Ish]

Garrincha as well.

FFS Varun

 

[montpelier]

keep Welbeck, Hernandez, get 2 x DM (not Bastian & Schneiderlein) & a CB ffs !!!

looks better with the benefit of hindsight

leave Depay behind in America if we can

 

[Long Ball]

Thought our plan for the right wing was Pedro and Chelsea gazumped us?

 

[3KDré]

The only person I have a qualm with him selling is Hernandez. Everyone else he was right to get rid of. They were too old, too injury prone and too bad.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

The truth is that the players we sold were all garbage and needed getting rid of and not one of them would have helped us this season. We signed 6 players which is far more than normal and we couldn't sign much more than that in one Window. The players we signed were all good signings in positions we needed and I remember a lot of people saying that we had our best window ever that summer. It's pure highlight and revisionism to say that it's Woodwards or LVGs fault for signing what we're top class players or talents.

The issue once again comes back to LVGs use of the squad and tactics, there no other debate to be had in my mind, the players are easily good enough to compete for a title and that's what was expected. LVG has sucked the confidence, belief and natural hand out of these players causing nearly every single one to regress. I don't blame LVG for the squad planning, I blame him fully with tactics and 'philosophy'.

Just think to yourself which of the players we signed would you not have signed, because if I was in his shoes id have happily signed the same people and I think 99% would have as well.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Nah all deserved to be sold. We needed better players than all of them. We didn't buy enough players. Our problem was that we didn't replace the players.

Yup, that was the whole point in the bump. Fact is, we didn't buy the players we should have bought and ended up with a weaker squad.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Yup, that was the whole point in the bump. Fact is, we didn't buy the players we should have bought and ended up with a weaker squad.

But the question is, is the squad actually weaker? Personally I think it's stronger and being made to look far worse by LVGs management.

 

[Robbie Boy]

But the question is, is the squad actually weaker? Personally I think it's stronger and being made to look far worse by LVGs management.

Weaker? Well maybe not, per se. But we could have easily used players like Hernandez, Welbeck and Nani considering how woefully short we are in attack. I would much rather Welbeck or Nani out on the wing than Lingard.

As I said, we needed a clear out and talent wise, there isn't a single player I would have kept. When I started this thread, it was July and I expected more quality signings. Those signings never arrived, and had I known they wouldn't arrive, there's players I would have kept, for squad depth if nothing else. All the players that left needed to go, but LvG totally mismanaged the situation by offloading far too many, too soon, without adequate replacements being found.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Weaker? Well maybe not, per se. But we could have easily used players like Hernandez, Welbeck and Nani considering how woefully short we are in attack. I would much rather Welbeck or Nani out on the wing than Lingard.

As I said, we needed a clear out and talent wise, there isn't a single player I would have kept. When I started this thread, it was July and I expected more quality signings. Those signings never arrived, and had I known they wouldn't arrive, there's players I would have kept, for squad depth if nothing else. All the players that left needed to go, but LvG totally mismanaged the situation by offloading far too many, too soon, without adequate replacements being found.

Maybe he mismanaged in not so sure, if the season had gone to plan you would have expected Memphis of Januzaj to step up but credit to Lingard he's earned his spot when others were shocking.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Maybe he mismanaged in not so sure, if the season had gone to plan you would have expected Memphis of Januzaj to step up but credit to Lingard he's earned his spot when others were shocking.

Lingard has had a handful of good games and looked no more than a championship player in others. There's absolutely no way he's first team material, not as a starter anyway. Earning it when your teammates have been atrocious is different from actually earning a starting berth because of your quality.

Funny that, if he planned on Januzaj stepping up, he done it in a funny way, by erm loaning him out.

I think it's abundantly clear that he let far too many players go without adequate replacements. Donald fecking Love made the team this year, FFS. Our squad is very thin and it's by pure chance we have seen the emergence of TFM and Rashford.

I have stuck to my original assertion that the players that left, had to go. I was sick of the likes of Clev and Ando coasting along and Nani and RvP had lost their form. What I did expect, was more players to come in and that never happened.

 

[JPRouve]

Has Woodward got a ruthless streak?

He has a roofless Trabant.

 

[Adebesi]

He has a roofless Trabant.

That's nowhere near ostentatious enough for Woodward! He drives a galactico car, surely? I'm sure he has more success with car dealers than he does with football agents.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Lingard has had a handful of good games and looked no more than a championship player in others. There's absolutely no way he's first team material, not as a starter anyway. Earning it when your teammates have been atrocious is different from actually earning a starting berth because of your quality.

Funny that, if he planned on Januzaj stepping up, he done it in a funny way, by erm loaning him out.

I think it's abundantly clear that he let far too many players go without adequate replacements. Donald fecking Love made the team this year, FFS. Our squad is very thin and it's by pure chance we have seen the emergence of TFM and Rashford.

I have stuck to my original assertion that the players that left, had to go. I was sick of the likes of Clev and Ando coasting along and Nani and RvP had lost their form. What I did expect, was more players to come in and that never happened.

You also have to give some thought to the number of injuries we have had, there's not another team in world football who would have coped with the injuries we have had. Not making excuses for LVG but that is one of the areas he's been abit unlucky.

 

[Robbie Boy]

You also have to give some thought to the number of injuries we have had, there's not another team in world football who would have coped with the injuries we have had. Not making excuses for LVG but that is one of the areas he's been abit unlucky.

Aye, that's true. But we were still woefully short in attack. Surely you have to account for one or two injuries in the whole attacking unit, yet we found ourselves struggling and playing players out of position.

 

[BennyBlanco]

You also have to give some thought to the number of injuries we have had, there's not another team in world football who would have coped with the injuries we have had. Not making excuses for LVG but that is one of the areas he's been abit unlucky.

Arsenal have tons of injuries year upon year.
And as upset as Arsenal fans are right now, the fact they always get top 3-4 and CL football coupled with triyng to play great football week in, week out, sounds like a slice of heaven to me these days.