Like discussed earlier, is there actually any evidence that Desailly played a full season or more as a centre back for Milan? If not, however you rate Desailly as a centre back - that must surely be the level from his 96-98-00 performances for France and his time in Chelsea where he was part of the team of the decade. Honest question, I've been trying to find evidence myself of Desailly being a first team centre back for Milan and through the seasons I looked at 96-98 I kept finding him listed and played as a midfielder.so many defenders who don't deserve being in a final - Ivanovic, Southgate, Bridge, Desailly (in the Premier League).
And Shay Given vs Joe Hart
As I said before its more a 4-2-2-2 than a typical 4-4-2. Neither of his winger will defend much and play more like a winger does in a 4-3-3. Hugely imbalances his side imo.
The excellent Micheal Cox points out a few weaknesses of city's 4-2-2-2. A system akin to what pat and skizzo are using here. The bolded points are the one I have been stressing since the game began, while skizpat have an excellent team the balance is simply wrong and they really dont have anyone with the work rate to make it work. In a 4-4-2 anyway.
so you have watched him play over the last so many years and have decided that. that's cool with me but he is basically a centre-back who wasn't good enough but managed because of his physical attributes, which help in the league.
I don't think he did with any sort of regularity. It was certainly surprising/interesting seeing how France played him at CB and not DM so I would rule out the first Capello period, also the Tabárez/Sacchi period out of pure logic (they still had Baresi). It is only 1997-98 when Capello returned that he may have been deployed there, but certainly not with great success as otherwise they surely wouldn't have sold him.
You have to say he is as comfortable at right back as at centre back? He has played more games as a RB than a CB in his team at chelsea from what I remember. And is against silva here who will drift inside which helps us even more as he can play as a RCB when needed rather than if he was against a winger who would overlap and stretch the play.
On paper yes. Wont work out well in an actual match. All of his midfielders are used to playing with a player who did the dirty work for them. Vieira-Petit, Alonso-Mascherano, Ronaldo-Park/Tevez/Rooney/Hargreaves, Silva-Milner, Fernando, Fernandinho.
That's a strange point to make given that you're playing a 4-4-2 as well and in Ginola have probably the laziest winger on the pitch. I'd take Silva's defensive contributions over Overmars any day as well - you don't get into that Spain team without being willing to put the work in when you don't have possession. Suarez is the hardest working forward on the pitch and he'll bring much of the defensive qualities that Tevez did to that Utd team. Insofar as any of our attacking trio will be sacrificing themselves for the team it'll be him, and he's demonstrated that he can do so without blunting his attacking contribution.
Silva will often be drifting infield in a deep position. If Ivanovic is going to follow him into central midfield then great. Henry will be all over the space he leaves behind him in the left channel.
You're calling it a 4222, we arent.
The same way spain played in the PL :wink:
As mentioned before that leaves overmars alone against bridge. Scholes has perfected the art of the cross field ball, and your less than average left back is going to be left alone against one of the fastest wingers ever in the PL? Thats going to cause a few issues.
Well we might as well bring up all our World Cup wins now that international matches apparently count in a Premier League draft :wink:
Comparison to Ronaldo being alone against Pearce, Alonso mastered long ball, left back against deadliest winger/player ever in the PL with Southgate to cover. That's going to cause more than a few issues.
So who exactly is the grafter in your midfield? As pointed above, all of them played alongside a defensive minded player who did the dirty work. And again, what version of ronaldo is this?
Cant really respond to this until I know which version of ronaldo are you playing?
I've searched it before too. He only played DM for Milan. Was trying to see if his first games 93-94 were in CB, but seems not. For CB, it is France, Chelsea performances that need to be factored in.
What version of Arsenals right wing overmars are you playing?
2007-08 Ronaldo, where his goalscoring and big-match pedigree improved even more, and his contribution to the build up play in our fluid Ronaldo/Rooney/Tevez attack was breathtaking at times.
Weird comment, overmars style of play never really changed till he lost his pace. Whereas ronaldo 06/07, 07/08 and 08/09 are three different commodities.
The same ronaldo that played a free role from the left while park-ji sung/hargreaves covered for him in the middle? And rooney tevez provided the work rate on the left? And evra owned that left wing negating the use of a proper winger to cover for him?2007-08 Ronaldo, where his goalscoring and big-match pedigree improved even more, and his contribution to the build up play in our fluid Ronaldo/Rooney/Tevez attack was breathtaking at times.
Well it makes a difference if you play someone in a position they never played in that competition.
Ronaldo 07-08 never played as a right mid in a 4-4-2 either.
Do we really need to answer that when Patrick Vieira is in the centre of our midfield? This 'Petit did the dirty work' argument borders on the absurd. Vieira was one of the very best and hardest-working PL midfielders ever. What he did tend to like was having a deeper-lying midfielder in the team with him, for example Petit and later Gilberto. Pretty much the same position that Xabi Alonso will be playing here.
So are we playing a 442 or 4222? Which one are you deciding on now?
Now you ARE being obtuse. When i called it a 4222 earlier, you rejected the claim. Are you accepting it now? A 4-3-3 with two strikers?
Petit was a good DM with good work rate and tacklingg, not like xabi at all
claims of someone being obtuse coming from you so far is a good one.
You've called it a 442, a 4222 and are arguing our weaknesses of both. I asked you what we are playing then since you can't quite seem to decide.
A 433 with two strikers? I don't think those numbers add up. Unless you mean are we using a 433 with a striker drifting wide to explore the channel he often ran riot in?
So what is it when you are defending?Yup. That is why I was trying to look through 96-98 and I couldn't find anything either suggesting he was a central defender. Honestly hadn't thought about it before this draft but Desailly - who is constantly used as a centre back in these drafts and considered World Class is the one we have here.
Either your memory is playing tricks on you or you're just making things up. Ronaldo played some lovely football from the left but mostly started on the right, not least because Ryan giggs made 31 league appearances that season. Here's a line up from a league match that season against Chelsea to refresh your memory:
That was the season we signed hargreaves? I remember him and park ji sung playing more and more from the right while ronaldo played almost exclusively on the left. Might be getting my seasons mixed up here.
Not sure why you see things as so rigid. Henry moving in to channels isn't the same as Shearer moving in to channels.
So your striker will move into space when attacking? Like every other striker ever on the planet who makes runs into channels? Henry is starting from a striker position, he isnt drifting left to swap with silva when he comes in but drifting left to attack the space. How exactly is that a 4-3-3? Calling it a 4-3-3 is the same as wanting your cake and eating it as well. it doesnt work. Its a 4-2-2-2, which you should accept. The weaknesses of both systems are the same, if you play silva,ronaldo in a 4-4-2(while attacking and defending) it wont work. If you play them in God Knows What when defending and a 4-3-3 when attacking update your OP to reflect that. Only problem with that is henry never played as a left wing forward for arsenal so you went for this "compromise"
Silva is playing as a LAM, 07/08 Ronaldo played as an auxilary striker from the left wing position, both your CMs played with a DM. Top Heavy and disjointed side.
Where have I denied that? Difference is that my players actually played in a 4-4-2. Keane has a better work rate and is better defensively than any other player on the pitch. Scholes won the league playing alongside micheal carrick so he is fine defensively. Our fullbacks are better than yours so calling it a sound back six doesnt work. Neither of my central duo is used to playing with a DM as is yours.
They played in a 442 with two hardworking wingers. Here you have them set up in a 4231 almost, with two wingers who won't track back like any of the ones Scholes and Keane usually played with.
Yeah that's the season. IIRC Hargreaves only started getting some games on the right wing towards the very end of the season. Another example of Ronaldo starting from the right, with Giggs, Tevez and Roney rounding out the attack. Gorgeous team goal finished by Ronaldo from 1:05, which is the sort of interplay our attack is capable of replicating:
Scholes 06/09 played with two hard working wingers?
Fair enough, taking that comment back, think my lasting memory of that season is from europe. Think you are underrating brown a bit here, he was excellent in that 07/08 season.
