POLL ADDED: Would you want Jose Mourinho as the next Manchester United manager?

[Red Dreams]

http://thepeoplesperson.com/2015/12...van-gaal-manchester-united-next-week-134138/?

Marca seem to think Jose will be our manager next week.

 

[Invictus]

My opinion is still too swayed by Mou's past - he's left most clubs after 3-4 seasons after falling out with people

This isn't an argument to make you reconsider your stance, or maybe change you mind mate, because everyone is entitled to their opinion - and that's fair enough.

But wrt the part quoted above, he fell out with the players/ upper management at Real Madrid and Chelsea - clubs that have a history of players running the show in collusion with the presidents who have their own favorites, and keeping managers on a short leash - with a list of insta-sacked managers that includes Champions League winners Juup Heyneckes and Carlo Ancelotti; La Liga winner Fabio Capello, two times Champions League/ La Liga winner Vicente del Bosque, and Manuel Pellegrini. Since the ousting of Del Bosque in 2003 (for reaching the semi-finals of the Champions League, and winning La Liga - how very dare he!) - Real Madrid have appointed 12 managers in 12 seasons - and José lasted the longest. At Chelsea, they appointed 7 different managers in 6 years between Mourinho I and Mourinho II. So we must consider the modus operandi of the cubs he's managed. At Porto, he had to leave because the players were going to get poached, and they were not at the elite level of European football. At Internazionale, the call of Real Madrid was too enticing to resist (no one can resist Madrid because of their history and accomplishments, plus he would have the chance to overtake Pep in the league - which he did in his second season).

Also, José is a very complex character - but people only see the bad in him, and it's imperative that we understand what makes him act in certain ways. This is someone who was told he didn't have the physique to be a footballer like his father Félix Mourinho. He was a scout, a youth team coach, a coach in god knows what division of Portugal with Estrela da Amadora, a translator, a training coach, an assistant. He worked his way from the very bottom - step by step, after being considered a failure as a footballer, and people like that always have a tendency to be snappy when they taste success because they always think they have something to prove to the naysayers. This is why he is so bitter towards Barcelona (who still consider him to be a mere interpreter for Bobby Robson). This is why he's petulant and arrogant - something that was fueled even more because of his meteoric success.

However, for the first time in his career, Mourinho has faced major failure as a manager - first at Real Madrid and now at Chelsea. There's a train of thought that says he's a broken man, or he's taken a step back and will never be the same; but I honestly believe all these events (and the poor health of Félix Mourinho because of brain surgery) will make him reconsider his stance as a manager, and maybe humble him a bit. Then you talk about United, and we indulge our manager - give him the sort of power he wouldn't have at Madrid or Chelsea under Florentino and Roman - something that was the root of superficial issues at both clubs. Plus, even back in 2004, Mourinho said he wanted to manage United and Liverpool at England. When was the last time he said something disrespectful towards United? Never, right? His biographer said he was distraught after David was appointed as Fergie's replacement. This is the job he's wanted, and the timing couldn't be better - a disgraced manager joining forces with a club that has lost its hallow, so to speak.

Also, wrt the pragmaticism part too - in all his seasons as a full time manager, José has never finished outside of the league's top 2 in terms of scoring apart from the 2013/ 2014 season at Chelsea - where they finished 3rd. That's a hell of a record for someone who's been stereotyped as a defensive coach primarily because of his big game tactics where being cautious can be the difference between winning and losing - because margins are wafer thin. Even Fergie's United played some dreary football for the first half decade of his tenure, our first League winning team under him was extremely functional; and again in Europe after THAT defeat to Real Madrid. So it's not like United has always played champagne football, even under Fergie. If we get Mourinho the attacking pieces he needs, he can build a beautiful counter-attack like he did with Madrid (who averaged 108 league goals per year under him, and set a new record for goals in a Liga season).

His career overall is a bit misunderstood IMO, and he's just a very easy character to hate (in the genuine sense of the term - not pop lingo) because of his pompous nature - which can color objective arguments (not saying you weren't objective in the assessment mind, far from it - and again it's just a matter of opinion, which is perfectly fine).

 

[Red Dreams]

good post Invictus.

 

[Devil may care]

I didn't say that. I said the argument for him coming is based on he wins, not his playing style and bringing in youth. So if you are only interested in the glory I think that would define you as a glory hunter. However, I think people who have now voted are basically doing it as they want LVG out.

It's not about glory at this point IMO, I changed my vote as I think if we don't make a change now we wont even scrape top 4, fortunately the PL is so scattered this season it's left us with a chance of still making it if we act now.

Was Jose my first choice? Not at all, but the 3 options I wanted have all been taken off the table in the last couple of months, so basically there is no one left and he is PL proven, we need to make the move now before LvG ends our season completely.

 

[DOTA]

Also, José is a very complex character - but people only see the bad in him, and it's imperative that we understand what makes him act in certain ways. This is someone who was told he didn't have the physique to be a footballer like his father Félix Mourinho. He was a scout, a youth team coach, a coach in god knows what division of Portugal with Estrela da Amadora, a translator, a training coach, an assistant. He worked his way from the very bottom - step by step, after being considered a failure as a footballer, and people like that always have a tendency to be snappy when they taste success because they always think they have something to prove to the naysayers. This is why he is so bitter towards Barcelona (who still consider him to be a mere interpreter for Bobby Robson). This is why he's petulant and arrogant - something that was fueled even more because of his meteoric success.

However, for the first time in his career, Mourinho has faced major failure as a manager - first at Real Madrid and now at Chelsea. There's a train of thought that says he's a broken man, or he's taken a step back and will never be the same; but I honestly believe all these events (and the poor health of Félix Mourinho because of brain surgery) will make him reconsider his stance as a manager, and maybe humble him a bit. Then you talk about United, and we indulge our manager - give him the sort of power he wouldn't have at Madrid or Chelsea under Florentino and Roman - something that was the root of superficial issues at both clubs. Plus, even back in 2004, Mourinho said he wanted to manage United and Liverpool at England. When was the last time he said something disrespectful towards United? Never, right? His biographer said he was distraught after David was appointed as Fergie's replacement. This is the job he's wanted, and the timing couldn't be better - a disgraced manager joining forces with a club that has lost its hallow, so to speak.

Is he? I can't say I know much about him but I just had him down as an insecure narcissist.

One whose god complex helped him to rise to success and has since fuelled his descent... Because I haven't yet seen much of humble Jose but the Jose who lashes out at those around him has been very visible. Which is the traditional response of a narcissist when people aren't lavishing them with the praise they feel they deserve and in some cases have come to expect.

 

[Invictus]

Is he? I can't say I know much about him but I just had him down as an insecure narcissist.

One whose god complex helped him to rise to success and has since fuelled his descent... Because I haven't yet seen much of humble Jose but the Jose who lashes out at those around him has been very visible. Which is the traditional response of a narcissist when people aren't lavishing them with the praise they feel they deserve and in some cases have come to expect.

Compensatory egomania.

 

[Skills]

Get him. The two are made for each other. We are the bad boys of English football and it'll be good to have a bad boy manager in charge.

 

[Ish]

@Invictus

Great post as always mate, & no need to be so "careful" about offending me. I'm alright man & respect all different views & opinions.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I think I understood a lot of those beforehand as well. It still doesn't excuse him for his behavior though, but I can psychologically understand his insecurities and why he does what he does etc.

I actually had a part written in 1 of my previous replies that said something along the lines of "if Jose was keen to tick off the last few boxes on his cv - rebuild a team, build a dynasty through a bit of longevity etc".... I'd give him the keys to the theatre myself.

My main concern is that most people are going by conjecture. "Mourinho has a certain attraction for United. United backs their managers & gives them ultimate power. Ergo - Jose & United will be a perfect fit & he'll stay with us & sorts, change some of his ways". Again, I'm not saying that's you either, but it seems some people are certain Mou will change a bit when offered the United job.

I guess I'm a bit more cynical in the sense that we have nothing but past behavior to go on & that doesn't paint him in a good light. I mean sure, he'll probably win a cup or title or both, but after the inevitable 2-3 year fallout, would all the drama be worth having to search for another manager? & most probably having to rebuild again because Jose didn't give youth a chance?

I agree that his defensive/pragmatic football is often exaggerated. I guess I'll be in the "no" camp for now, but I'd be most delighted if things with him actually turned out how some are hoping it would - United & Mou being a great fit for one another.

 

[DOTA]

Compensatory egomania.

Indeed.

He's probably amazing in bed, if personal experience is anything to go by. Rather hard work though.

 

[clarkydaz]

Compensatory egomania.

Great player

 

[Red Dreams]

IF it is Morinho as most of us expect, how many on here think the board and Fergie and Chalton's insistence (if they still have a voice) that the Youth set up is still used properly.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Maybe a better poll would be...

1. Keep Van Gaal till the end of the season (then try for Pep, etc)
2. Sack Van Gaal and get Mourinho now
3. Sack Van Gaal, Giggs till end of season (then try for Pep, etc)

 

[Wibble]

If Guardiola isn't available in the summer I expect that Mourinho will be tried. Don't want him any more than I wanted Moyes or LVG.

 

[DOTA]

IF it is Morinho as most of us expect, how many on here think the board and Fergie and Chalton's insistence (if they still have a voice) that the Youth set up is still used properly.

Think if he's the choice then he has to be allowed to operate as he wants. Can't see it working, otherwise. We'd just have to hope he's finally learned from his latest Chelsea stint that you don't succeed for long without bringing younger players in to the side.

 

[Red Dreams]

Maybe a better poll would be...

1. Keep Van Gaal till the end of the season (then try for Pep, etc)
2. Sack Van Gaal and get Mourinho now
3. Sack Van Gaal, Giggs till end of season (then try for Pep, etc)

have read in so many places Pep is all but signed up with City. But the next few days will tell us what we need to know.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Maybe a better poll would be...

1. Keep Van Gaal till the end of the season (then try for Pep, etc)
2. Sack Van Gaal and get Mourinho now
3. Sack Van Gaal, Giggs till end of season (then try for Pep, etc)

Waiting for Pep will ensure we end up stuck with Giggs. Pep is going to City and people need to accept that.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

It's not about glory at this point IMO, I changed my vote as I think if we don't make a change now we wont even scrape top 4, fortunately the PL is so scattered this season it's left us with a chance of still making it if we act now.

Was Jose my first choice? Not at all, but the 3 options I wanted have all been taken off the table in the last couple of months, so basically there is no one left and he is PL proven, we need to make the move now before LvG ends our season completely.

So you have just confirmed my thoughts. People are Changing their votes or voting now because they want LVG out.
Jose ticks all the boxes why people do not want LVG, plus he would not give youth a chance. So there is no rational reason to want him unless you are a win at all cost type of person.
If we get rid, or LVG walks, we should get someone who meets our basic requirements.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

have read in so many places Pep is all but signed up with City. But the next few days will tell us what we need to know.

Waiting for Pep will ensure we end up stuck with Giggs. Pep is going to City and people need to accept that.

Pep was just a popular example, I mean try for "anyone other than Jose" in the summer.

 

[Revan]

If Guardiola isn't available in the summer I expect that Mourinho will be tried. Don't want him any more than I wanted Moyes or LVG.

Who do you want then (assuming that Pep ain't available)?

 

[nick2004]

I mean sure, he'll probably win a cup or title or both, but after the inevitable 2-3 year fallout, would all the drama be worth having to search for another manager? & most probably having to rebuild again because Jose didn't give youth a chance?

But the only difference with any other manager is that ... the others will not win any titles!!!

We had to rebuild from scratch after ... Fergie and Moyes! What did Fergie leave behind? Chaos!

The Mourinho 2004 Chelsea, remained a force and won trophies without him for a decade! The SAF Man Utd of 2013 won nothing without him, and for many of us did not have any good talent or youth prospects.



Edit: By the way, excellent post, invictus!

 

[Wibble]

Who do you want then (assuming that Pep ain't available)?

Stuffed if I know.

 

[Earthquake]

Surely there has to be other options out there...

 

[BennyBlanco]

Surely there has to be other options out there...

Pochettino?
knows the league, done well with two teams now, plays entertaining, energetic football, gives chances to youngsters, hungry and young?
Has to be a better shout than Giggsy at least.

 

[Ubik]

I think he's gone personally, it's the same feeling as when I was convinced Moyes would be binned towards the end of that season. Board are just waiting for the opportune moment, which is probably after Chelsea.

 

[Devil may care]

So you have just confirmed my thoughts. People are Changing their votes or voting now because they want LVG out.
Jose ticks all the boxes why people do not want LVG, plus he would not give youth a chance. So there is no rational reason to want him unless you are a win at all cost type of person.
If we get rid, or LVG walks, we should get someone who meets our basic requirements.

It's not about winning at all costs, I'm not expecting trophies from things right now, just a manager at least capable of maintaining our top 4 status, that is the biggest requirement the club has, ahead of bringing through kids, the club needs to keep it's top level foundation first and foremost. The bottom line is no one can name an alternative as there aren't any, we missed the boat on the 3 best options and now we are between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Agila Dathi]

I'm not sure if I like Jose as our manager, sure it will be fun for about 2-3 years but who knows what will happen then? My 1st choice is Guardiola, obviously. But if he's going to City I'm not sure I'd like the idea of Jose at Man Utd. He really hates Guardiola and will probably make a fool of himself, again.

But what about Ronald Koeman as plan B?

 

[AttackingFlair]

Guardiola will get us playing proper football again but if we wait until the end of the season, we could miss out on top four again. Jose may not get us playing attractive football but he gets results and ends up winning trophies sooner or later.

 

[Sam]

I'm not sure if I like Jose as our manager, sure it will be fun for about 2-3 years but who knows what will happen then? My 1st choice is Guardiola, obviously. But if he's going to City I'm not sure I'd like the idea of Jose at Man Utd. He really hates Guardiola and will probably make a fool of himself, again.

But what about Ronald Koeman as plan B?

Well it can't be any worse then the two and a half years that have followed SAF can it?

 

[Skills]

I'm not sure if I like Jose as our manager, sure it will be fun for about 2-3 years but who knows what will happen then? My 1st choice is Guardiola, obviously. But if he's going to City I'm not sure I'd like the idea of Jose at Man Utd. He really hates Guardiola and will probably make a fool of himself, again.

But what about Ronald Koeman as plan B?

So exactly the same situation with Guardiola then? Fun for about 2-3 years before he gets bored.

 

[Mainoldo]

I'm not sure if I like Jose as our manager, sure it will be fun for about 2-3 years but who knows what will happen then? My 1st choice is Guardiola, obviously. But if he's going to City I'm not sure I'd like the idea of Jose at Man Utd. He really hates Guardiola and will probably make a fool of himself, again.

But what about Ronald Koeman as plan B?

Well it's not like Pep would be here for long. Get Mourinho win shit and deal with the break down after!

 

[ZDwyr]

I agree with everything @Invictus said. Brilliant post.

 

[Offside]

Well it can't be any worse then the two and a half years that have followed SAF can it?

Right now the idea of fun and 'maybe a league title' that people seem to attribute in an underwhelming way towards the possible reign Jose would have here, sounds like bliss.

 

[mattsville]

It has always been about getting who you believe is the best available manager, mourinho is the the best available manager, and imo the only manager capable of managing our club and all it entails, yes there are question marks, but we should at least have the conversation with him.

 

[Attila]

Wanted him at United when Fergie retired and I really hope he's the next choice after LVG.

The stories about him coming seem to have dried up a bit

 

[Drifter]

Utter bollocks. This current squad was near the top a few weeks ago. He would sort us right out.

Believe what makes you happy .But this side are

Maybe a better poll would be...

1. Keep Van Gaal till the end of the season (then try for Pep, etc)
2. Sack Van Gaal and get Mourinho now
3. Sack Van Gaal, Giggs till end of season (then try for Pep, etc)

4. Keep Van Gaal till the end of season and hand over reigns to his successor Ryan Giggs

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Think this is being swayed by the fact they want LVG out.

Just think all those entertaining games we will see (cough) and how the likes of Adnan, McNair, Lingard, Varela & Co get chances. I am sure we will hear a lot of at least he wins. Oh dear, real glory hunters.

Yeah without a doubt.

The positive with Mourinho is that he has an amazing psycological mental strength which he is able to also instill in the players, and he certainly shows more passion and emotion than Van Gal. Although it boils over embarrassingly at times.
The negative is that he must be in the limelight. He regards himself as the most special person where ever he is. And his tactics are anti football with no attacking flare.

 

[Needham]

Trying to work out how a manager gets sacked and within days finds himself sitting pretty choosing between two of the biggest clubs in the world for his next job.

 

[Xaviesta]

Trying to work out how a manager gets sacked and within days finds himself sitting pretty choosing between two of the biggest clubs in the world for his next job.

His track record of success has something to do with that.

 

[hobbers]

we should get someone who meets our basic requirements.

The most basic requirement of all being to win.

There's no perfect candidate out there at the moment. Ancelotti was probably the best chance at ticking all the boxes but he'll now be unavailable for 3 seasons or so. Guardiola has never built a team or managed in a competitive league. Mourinho doesn't give young players many chances, unless they're exceptional. Neither stay with teams longer than 2-3 seasons.

 

[Needham]

His track record of success has something to do with that.

Course, just weird the way the world turns.