Scholes the Pundit

[mark_a]

I do love how he constantly bangs on about the money spent. Last time it was £250 mill, this time it was £300 mill. I'm assuming next time it'll be £350 mill.

No mention of actual net spend. *

It's all a lame circus, I don't see ex-Liverpool knee-jerking all over their side in this way.

With him & Keane the press is laughing, they'll both come out with stuff that grabs headlines. But I do think that his headline grabbing outbursts are detrimental to the club right now. Yes last night was poor. Yes we've been consistently poor. There's no spirit or fight, there's a lack of pace etc... We can all see the issues (except LvG?!) BUT, we can beat Liverpool at Old Trafford. However, players aren't immune to what gets reported and Ex-players coming out with negativity doesn't help the club.

I have to say, I generally ignore most pundits & turn off or over. There's been legions of them in the last year or two, Jenas etc., giving it the "it's not the United we've watched all our lives". The same pundits who were in infant school before SAF took over and who probably haven't given a flying f*ck about us to date. Can't help feeling that they enjoy getting the digs in. Any fool can see we're not gelling as a team and even if you think LvG is the right man for the job, the number of injuries, brand new signings, culling of players etc. are all big factors.

I'm happy to hear the doom-laden opinions of Scholes & Keane, I'd just rather hear them over a pint with them in the pub.

* Still an issue, long-overdue cull not executed very well, bad decisions made, leading to injuries causing threadbare squad

 

[ScarleyUtd]

I don't think he's stuck in the past, he's rightly pointed out our standard must be much higher. It's a massive problem if we become comfortable with how bad we currently are and as i'm sure you know we are THAT bad right now.

Our current position in the league and general standard of play is not acceptable at all, esp after all the money spent.

And stuck in the past? He's only just retired!

 

[devilish]

The only good thing of having Giggs as manager is to see what Scholes would say if things go wrong

 

[acnumber9]

I do love how he constantly bangs on about the money spent. Last time it was £250 mill, this time it was £300 mill. I'm assuming next time it'll be £350 mill.

No mention of actual net spend. *

It's all a lame circus, I don't see ex-Liverpool knee-jerking all over their side in this way.

With him & Keane the press is laughing, they'll both come out with stuff that grabs headlines. But I do think that his headline grabbing outbursts are detrimental to the club right now. Yes last night was poor. Yes we've been consistently poor. There's no spirit or fight, there's a lack of pace etc... We can all see the issues (except LvG?!) BUT, we can beat Liverpool at Old Trafford. However, players aren't immune to what gets reported and Ex-players coming out with negativity doesn't help the club.

I have to say, I generally ignore most pundits & turn off or over. There's been legions of them in the last year or two, Jenas etc., giving it the "it's not the United we've watched all our lives". The same pundits who were in infant school before SAF took over and who probably haven't given a flying f*ck about us to date. Can't help feeling that they enjoy getting the digs in. Any fool can see we're not gelling as a team and even if you think LvG is the right man for the job, the number of injuries, brand new signings, culling of players etc. are all big factors.

I'm happy to hear the doom-laden opinions of Scholes & Keane, I'd just rather hear them over a pint with them in the pub.

* Still an issue, long-overdue cull not executed very well, bad decisions made, leading to injuries causing threadbare squad

He was talking about what's been spent on the team since they won the league so he's right. It is over £300m. He's speaking from the heart. If the players put in performances like that and can't take the criticism that comes with it then they're useless to us.

 

[dcullivanio]

I have been a bit sceptical and irritated with some of Scholes' negativity and pessimism as a pundit previously, but, he's bang on with these comments

 

[Oggmonster]

Honestly im sick of seeing these 'Scholes says' headlines. Yes he was a great player but he needs to let go. Ferguson is not here anymore and we will never be the same club we were when he was. Its time to move on before we become Liverpool, so wrapped up holding on to the past that we become irrelevant.

I don't think he's stuck in the past at all. He mentions ther past yes but more of an "identity" we had. He doesn't seem to say we must play like that but he wants them to play with some kind of purpose which they don't.

I do love how he constantly bangs on about the money spent. Last time it was £250 mill, this time it was £300 mill. I'm assuming next time it'll be £350 mill.

No mention of actual net spend. *

It's all a lame circus, I don't see ex-Liverpool knee-jerking all over their side in this way.

With him & Keane the press is laughing, they'll both come out with stuff that grabs headlines. But I do think that his headline grabbing outbursts are detrimental to the club right now. Yes last night was poor. Yes we've been consistently poor. There's no spirit or fight, there's a lack of pace etc... We can all see the issues (except LvG?!) BUT, we can beat Liverpool at Old Trafford. However, players aren't immune to what gets reported and Ex-players coming out with negativity doesn't help the club.

I have to say, I generally ignore most pundits & turn off or over. There's been legions of them in the last year or two, Jenas etc., giving it the "it's not the United we've watched all our lives". The same pundits who were in infant school before SAF took over and who probably haven't given a flying f*ck about us to date. Can't help feeling that they enjoy getting the digs in. Any fool can see we're not gelling as a team and even if you think LvG is the right man for the job, the number of injuries, brand new signings, culling of players etc. are all big factors.

I'm happy to hear the doom-laden opinions of Scholes & Keane, I'd just rather hear them over a pint with them in the pub.

* Still an issue, long-overdue cull not executed very well, bad decisions made, leading to injuries causing threadbare squad

Hmmm, it seems odd you accuse them of knee jerking and then you go on to say "With him & Keane the press is laughing, they'll both come out with stuff that grabs headlines. But I do think that his headline grabbing outbursts are detrimental to the club right now. Yes last night was poor. Yes we've been consistently poor. There's no spirit or fight, there's a lack of pace etc... We can all see the issues" which was Scholes whole point. So basically you're allowed to say it but he's not? Seems odd. It seems even more odd you agree with the knee jerking but criticise him for saying it!

I don't actually mind Scholes and Keane etc, it's a welcome change to hear people speak passionately about it. Whilst it kind of is pub talk as such it's still better than the usual shite sitting on the fence. At least they have an opinion rather than just the usual cliches.

You're other bit about Jenas seems a bit unfair as well. It IS the United he would be used to watching under Fergie. How do you know he didn't give a flying feck? Did you want Jenas on TV every week when he was at Newcastle and Tottenham for his views on United? He was probably never asked so didn't answer the question. He's just become a pundit so is bound to speak more. It'd be like saying I don't know Jermain Defoe's opinion on United now so he doesn't care. I'm sure he'd give it me if I knew him and asked him.

 

[JB7]

Don't understand what Scholes said wrong last night. Him, Rio and McManaman were just calling it as it is.

We aren't watching Manchester United anymore for fecks sake, that's not being stuck in the past, that's true. This style of play, the gutless, heartless performances, no fight, no leadership. That is not, never will be and has never been Manchester United.

They are a disgrace and the pundits were bang on the money.

 

[mark_a]

He was talking about what's been spent on the team since they won the league so he's right. It is over £300m. He's speaking from the heart. If the players put in performances like that and can't take the criticism that comes with it then they're useless to us.

I agree that the players should be able to take the criticism, it just annoys me that it's Ex-United player pundits slagging the team off in public. I'm 100% in favour of b*llockings going on out of public view. Yeah Scholesy is speaking from the heart, but the media has been full of Ex-Liverpool for the last 20 years, they'd have been topping themselves over the years if they'd all reacted like that to Liverpool's slide.

 

[mark_a]

I don't think he's stuck in the past at all. He mentions ther past yes but more of an "identity" we had. He doesn't seem to say we must play like that but he wants them to play with some kind of purpose which they don't.



Hmmm, it seems odd you accuse them of knee jerking and then you go on to say "With him & Keane the press is laughing, they'll both come out with stuff that grabs headlines. But I do think that his headline grabbing outbursts are detrimental to the club right now. Yes last night was poor. Yes we've been consistently poor. There's no spirit or fight, there's a lack of pace etc... We can all see the issues" which was Scholes whole point. So basically you're allowed to say it but he's not? Seems odd. It seems even more odd you agree with the knee jerking but criticise him for saying it!

I don't actually mind Scholes and Keane etc, it's a welcome change to hear people speak passionately about it. Whilst it kind of is pub talk as such it's still better than the usual shite sitting on the fence. At least they have an opinion rather than just the usual cliches.

You're other bit about Jenas seems a bit unfair as well. It IS the United he would be used to watching under Fergie. How do you know he didn't give a flying feck? Did you want Jenas on TV every week when he was at Newcastle and Tottenham for his views on United? He was probably never asked so didn't answer the question. He's just become a pundit so is bound to speak more. It'd be like saying I don't know Jermain Defoe's opinion on United now so he doesn't care. I'm sure he'd give it me if I knew him and asked him.

My point isn't really that Scholes isn't allowed to say it, just more that I wish he wasn't the pundit HAVING to say it after our games. I just don't feel the headlines it results in are helpful. Will they affect the team negatively? Possibly. Will it change LvGs approach? I doubt it. Will it galvanise Woodward and the decision-making board into making good decisions and plans for our future? Again, I doubt it.

 

[Xaviesta]

Agree with Scholes especially the stuff about United players tweeting and posting on social media about how sorry they are about results etc. They're just words really. Show how much it really means, how much it really hurts to lose by deeds on the pitch. Actions speak much louder than words. It looked like Liverpool's players were up for the match, understood the significance of the match United's players didn't.

 

[Golden Nugget]

I do love how he constantly bangs on about the money spent. Last time it was £250 mill, this time it was £300 mill. I'm assuming next time it'll be £350 mill.

No mention of actual net spend. *

It's all a lame circus, I don't see ex-Liverpool knee-jerking all over their side in this way.

With him & Keane the press is laughing, they'll both come out with stuff that grabs headlines. But I do think that his headline grabbing outbursts are detrimental to the club right now. Yes last night was poor. Yes we've been consistently poor. There's no spirit or fight, there's a lack of pace etc... We can all see the issues (except LvG?!) BUT, we can beat Liverpool at Old Trafford. However, players aren't immune to what gets reported and Ex-players coming out with negativity doesn't help the club.

I have to say, I generally ignore most pundits & turn off or over. There's been legions of them in the last year or two, Jenas etc., giving it the "it's not the United we've watched all our lives". The same pundits who were in infant school before SAF took over and who probably haven't given a flying f*ck about us to date. Can't help feeling that they enjoy getting the digs in. Any fool can see we're not gelling as a team and even if you think LvG is the right man for the job, the number of injuries, brand new signings, culling of players etc. are all big factors.

I'm happy to hear the doom-laden opinions of Scholes & Keane, I'd just rather hear them over a pint with them in the pub.

* Still an issue, long-overdue cull not executed very well, bad decisions made, leading to injuries causing threadbare squad

I don't know the exact figure spent - but he's right; it doesn't matter what the net spend is, the point is that you sell players and buy new ones to improve the squad - which LVG/Woodward hasn't. As he said, the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern (City and PSG too) have splashed cash and improved the team. The team needed reshaping, but money was spent and we haven't improved at all. It does get a bit annoying her he bangs on about it, but he does have a point.

For what its worth, I remember Carragher and Souness criticize Liverpool too - just no one really cares because it's not United.

 

[mark_a]

Agree with Scholes especially the stuff about United players tweeting and posting on social media about how sorry they are about results etc. They're just words really. Show how much it really means, how much it really hurts to lose by deeds on the pitch. Actions speak much louder than words. It looked like Liverpool's players were up for the match, understood the significance of the match United's players didn't.

Agree with that stuff, a shame he has to say it. For me, the club should refund every United fan who shelled out for that game, never mind the away shirts.

 

[Oggmonster]

My point isn't really that Scholes isn't allowed to say it, just more that I wish he wasn't the pundit HAVING to say it after our games. I just don't feel the headlines it results in are helpful. Will they affect the team negatively? Possibly. Will it change LvGs approach? I doubt it. Will it galvanise Woodward and the decision-making board into making good decisions and plans for our future? Again, I doubt it.

I'd imagine the reality is the players probably don't give a shit what pundits say. They might listen but they'll all be able to form their own opinion, I'm sure they know it's awful football. You've got to bare in mind all 3 pundits (and all pundits really) are ex footballers so they probably still speak how people speak in a dressing room. I'd imagine what they say isn't to different to what footballers say behind closed doors.

 

[Maldini's Hair]

I haven't always agreed with everything he's said in the media but he was bang on point last night. We were a shambles. completely unidentifiable as a professional football team. Which, when you consider our financial muscle, global appeal and apparent 'genius' of a manager is nothing short of disgraceful. It's not all LvGs fault either - A huge percentage of the players are completely spineless and appear to have absolutely no hunger for a fight. The combination of both those things is looking pretty toxic.

As football fans we aren't entitled to anything but we certainly deserve better than what we've had thrust upon us over the last 3 years.

 

[Natener]

My point isn't really that Scholes isn't allowed to say it, just more that I wish he wasn't the pundit HAVING to say it after our games. I just don't feel the headlines it results in are helpful. Will they affect the team negatively? Possibly. Will it change LvGs approach? I doubt it. Will it galvanise Woodward and the decision-making board into making good decisions and plans for our future? Again, I doubt it.

So you are saying... the most effective way to get the criticism across would be to have it sung by a barbershop quartet outside Woody's office? I can roll with that.

 

[acnumber9]

I agree that the players should be able to take the criticism, it just annoys me that it's Ex-United player pundits slagging the team off in public. I'm 100% in favour of b*llockings going on out of public view. Yeah Scholesy is speaking from the heart, but the media has been full of Ex-Liverpool for the last 20 years, they'd have been topping themselves over the years if they'd all reacted like that to Liverpool's slide.

I'd rather people didn't try and insult our intelligence. Personally I think it's better the players and manager aren't being given a free ride and allowed to think it's acceptable.

 

[dasty]

Agree with Scholes especially the stuff about United players tweeting and posting on social media about how sorry they are about results etc. They're just words really. Show how much it really means, how much it really hurts to lose by deeds on the pitch. Actions speak much louder than words. It looked like Liverpool's players were up for the match, understood the significance of the match United's players didn't.

It's fecking disgraceful really. At first I could still accept players posting their apologies and some generic bullshit like "we will come back stronger and do better next time", but feck me, those feckers had been posting the same bullshit all year long. All I see on the pitch is some gutless performances. I mean, what the hell is a blog post after that going to do? I am sorry but I expect a footballer to play good football on the field, not posting on his blog.

Their apologies and tweets after the games got so annoying that I unfollowed the club's instagram and facebook page. The last thing I wanna see after a pathetic performance by them is them apologizing for the hundredth time.

 

[K2K]

He doesnt have an agenda against Van Gaal.

He was just never convinced by Van Gaal supposed philosophy (he isnt the only one) and I think it genuinely saddens him to be proven right

 

[Stacks]

Don't understand what Scholes said wrong last night. Him, Rio and McManaman were just calling it as it is.

We aren't watching Manchester United anymore for fecks sake, that's not being stuck in the past, that's true. This style of play, the gutless, heartless performances, no fight, no leadership. That is not, never will be and has never been Manchester United.

They are a disgrace and the pundits were bang on the money.

We are watching Man Utd in both name and performance. This is us now. Unfortunately when pundits day "we aren't watching Man Utd anymore" you could argue they are living in the past as they are referencing 'their' United. That said the things that made United a top team have been turned on their head. Also in terms of global support, stadium size, wealth, we have the basis to be a top team or even an elite team, its just that today's United are inefficient, poorly run, poorly managed and have no direction. Unlike Liverpool who became shit over time and are a product of dodgy decisions over two decades, this United isn't performing to its current potential which is still fairly large in the football world. But unfortunately this is Man Utd now. After 3 seasons I have come to accept it. That said, since we won the league only 3 seasons ago, I can understand why others can't accept it. Our descent has been, rapid, its been hard, its been spectacular.

 

[Stacks]

My point isn't really that Scholes isn't allowed to say it, just more that I wish he wasn't the pundit HAVING to say it after our games. I just don't feel the headlines it results in are helpful. Will they affect the team negatively? Possibly. Will it change LvGs approach? I doubt it. Will it galvanise Woodward and the decision-making board into making good decisions and plans for our future? Again, I doubt it.

Scholes has just adopted the role as fans spokesperson. LVG don't realise that Scholes is a Man Utd and Oldham fan so he genuinely cares as much as the fans do but is still in a position to have his voice heard. feck knows the board don't give a damn about us. What is he supposed to say? "I think they were a tad unlucky, on another day those 7 shots (1 on target) would lead to a 3-0 victory?" The guys a pundit for christ sake, not a Man Utd P.R. executive. The non United pundits are telling it as it is also so whats the big deal? Scholesy just has more emotional investment. It's difficult for anyone to invest blood, sweat and tears into something great and see it torn down in 1/3rd of the time it took to create.
When the camera panned to Sir Alex and Sir Bobby I always think "penny for your thoughts" I genuinely would love to know what their thoughts are?

 

[mark_a]

The non United pundits are telling it as it is

I don't agree with that. They talk a lot of crap. I forget who made the comments a while back, but it was to be critical of us & then admit they'd not actually seen the game, just seen MoTD highlights! The non-united pundits are panning us, then saying "we're back" when we have a couple of good performances. it's all or nothing thinking. The non-United pundits are dying to pan us.

It's difficult for anyone to invest blood, sweat and tears into something great and see it torn down in 1/3rd of the time it took to create.
When the camera panned to Sir Alex and Sir Bobby I always think "penny for your thoughts" I genuinely would love to know what their thoughts are?

Damn straight it is. It's heartbreaking seeing us playing without spirit. My grandfather helped build the Busby babes and every team until 1970 and my Dad just retired from the club after over 50 years service as a scout. It's difficult for fans and anyone with an emotional investment in the club to see bad performances becoming the default. I dunno, I just think some calm rational thinking is required, so that the good and bad doesn't get overblown. I'd expect nothing more than a heartfelt reaction from Scholes, as I said, it's a shame it's at the forefront of the media.

Lets put it this way, I'd much rather he was donning the tracksuit and doling out the b*llockings at Carrington this morning.

 

[PlayerOne]

We could really use the like of Scholes and Rio in the team right now, they looked more upset about losing than the players last night. Scholes was just bang on too, agreed with everything he said.

 

[sammsky1]

I don't agree with that. They talk a lot of crap. I forget who made the comments a while back, but it was to be critical of us & then admit they'd not actually seen the game, just seen MoTD highlights! The non-united pundits are panning us, then saying "we're back" when we have a couple of good performances. it's all or nothing thinking. The non-United pundits are dying to pan us.



Damn straight it is. It's heartbreaking seeing us playing without spirit. My grandfather helped build the Busby babes and every team until 1970 and my Dad just retired from the club after over 50 years service as a scout. It's difficult for fans and anyone with an emotional investment in the club to see bad performances becoming the default. I dunno, I just think some calm rational thinking is required, so that the good and bad doesn't get overblown. I'd expect nothing more than a heartfelt reaction from Scholes, as I said, it's a shame it's at the forefront of the media.

Lets put it this way, I'd much rather he was donning the tracksuit and doling out the b*llockings at Carrington this morning.

What a cool dad!

Whats his inside opinion of what is going so wrong right now. What would he recommend needs changing over the summer?

 

[Theonas]

Scholes has just adopted the role as fans spokesperson. LVG don't realise that Scholes is a Man Utd and Oldham fan so he genuinely cares as much as the fans do but is still in a position to have his voice heard. feck knows the board don't give a damn about us. What is he supposed to say? "I think they were a tad unlucky, on another day those 7 shots (1 on target) would lead to a 3-0 victory?" The guys a pundit for christ sake, not a Man Utd P.R. executive. The non United pundits are telling it as it is also so whats the big deal? Scholesy just has more emotional investment. It's difficult for anyone to invest blood, sweat and tears into something great and see it torn down in 1/3rd of the time it took to create.
When the camera panned to Sir Alex and Sir Bobby I always think "penny for your thoughts" I genuinely would love to know what their thoughts are?

There is nothing wrong with any of that and it is the reason I and many love Paul Scholes. The question though is; is that we want from a pundit? An emotional response? I don't think so. Social media gives us enough of that, forums like this one, YouTube, ... . When I am watching a pundit, I am expecting actual analysis which requires a degree of emotional detachment at least. English media in general are quite bad at that; Carragher and Neville used to be the only really good ones so Scholes is not particularly a stand out but it still remains that he contributes very little to what is supposed to be an informative professional look at what happens.

 

[JB7]

We are watching Man Utd in both name and performance. This is us now. Unfortunately when pundits day "we aren't watching Man Utd anymore" you could argue they are living in the past as they are referencing 'their' United. That said the things that made United a top team have been turned on their head. Also in terms of global support, stadium size, wealth, we have the basis to be a top team or even an elite team, its just that today's United are inefficient, poorly run, poorly managed and have no direction. Unlike Liverpool who became shit over time and are a product of dodgy decisions over two decades, this United isn't performing to its current potential which is still fairly large in the football world. But unfortunately this is Man Utd now. After 3 seasons I have come to accept it. That said, since we won the league only 3 seasons ago, I can understand why others can't accept it. Our descent has been, rapid, its been hard, its been spectacular.

I refuse to accept this United. I do completely understand what you're saying, and you're correct of course, I'm not going to argue that. But I'm looking at it from my point of view, my parents & wider families point of views (people who have watched United for far longer than I've been alive, seen much darker times than these), even speaking to my great uncle who has hated United all his life - this isn't what Manchester United are all about. This has never been what United are about.

 

[Stacks]

There is nothing wrong with any of that and it is the reason I and many love Paul Scholes. The question though is; is that we want from a pundit? An emotional response? I don't think so. Social media gives us enough of that, forums like this one, YouTube, ... . When I am watching a pundit, I am expecting actual analysis which requires a degree of emotional detachment at least. English media in general are quite bad at that; Carragher and Neville used to be the only really good ones so Scholes is not particularly a stand out but it still remains that he contributes very little to what is supposed to be an informative professional look at what happens.

True, which is why we have this thread. He is an angry Man Utd fan and a shit pundit. Neville and Carra tried to sit on the fence a bit and talk about analysis. As I said, Scholes is acting as fan spokesperson

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Ferguson must have text him to give him the green light to stick the knife in.

 

[Theonas]

True, which is why we have this thread. He is an angry Man Utd fan and a shit pundit. Neville and Carra tried to sit on the fence a bit and talk about analysis. As I said, Scholes is acting as fan spokesperson

A fan spokesperson, exactly! I guess I and many expected more from him. He to me was one of the most intelligent footballers we ever seen in this country. I know this might sound weird but to me he and Ronaldo were the only indisputable top top class footballers we had at United and by that I mean Iniesta, Xavi, Zidane top class. So I expected more from him, I really expected him to have some sharp views. Instead we get no more sharpness than you'd get at a Manchester pub from an angry fan. "They spent this much and much, no character, no heart, enough of philosophy nonsense ..." Very disappointing.

 

[Lurpak99]

A fan spokesperson, exactly! I guess I and many expected more from him. He to me was one of the most intelligent footballers we ever seen in this country. I know this might sound weird but to me he and Ronaldo were the only indisputable top top class footballers we had at United and by that I mean Iniesta, Xavi, Zidane top class. So I expected more from him, I really expected him to have some sharp views. Instead we get no more sharpness than you'd get at a Manchester pub from an angry fan. "They spent this much and much, no character, no heart, enough of philosophy nonsense ..." Very disappointing.

Being an intelligent footballer isn't the same as being an intelligent person, just like an Lee Cattermole type of player isn't necessarily stupid.

 

[2 man midfield]

True, which is why we have this thread. He is an angry Man Utd fan and a shit pundit. Neville and Carra tried to sit on the fence a bit and talk about analysis. As I said, Scholes is acting as fan spokesperson

Yep. When discussing United as we all do, be it on here or with mates, how often do we actually praise ourselves? Hardly ever. I might occasionally say how good De Gea or Martial are, but you're usually complaining, picking out what you think isn't right. Scholes may moan, but he comes across more like a fan than a pundit. Which ironically is the complete opposite of his job, but still.

 

[Theonas]

Being an intelligent footballer isn't the same as being an intelligent person, just like an Lee Cattermole type of player isn't necessarily stupid.

True, no arguments there. I don't know what it is that I was expecting. I think because Xavi, Alonso and Pirlo sound so eloquent and like deep thinkers about the game, I thought maybe Scholes will at least be more interesting to listen to than Michael bloody Owen. But well, I guess that's why we never produce any good managers.

 

[RedPed]

I don't get all this anti-Scholes crap. It's Roy Keane that really grinds my gears, he should just feck off TV. But nearly everything that Scholesy has said has been spot on. Rio was dead on and even Stevie Mac told it as it is. I couldn't fault the post-match analysis. I don't agree with Scholesy living in the past but he was just making the valid point that now United have set the bar they shouldn't be falling below that in the manner in which they are doing.

I just don't get what issue people have with Paul Scholes ? Is this just the usual jumping on the bandwagon thing???

 

[Blue always red]

Lol, "You see Arsenal celebrating on the pitch after they've secured 4th place. That can't happen at Man United." How are people even arguing that he doesn't speak sense. He's bang fecking on with his comments about spending 250-300m. What have we got to show for that money over what we got rid of? Even if our net spend was 0, we're not as strong now as we were back then.

Scholes is speaking nothing but the truth.

 

[sunama]

I do love how he constantly bangs on about the money spent. Last time it was £250 mill, this time it was £300 mill. I'm assuming next time it'll be £350 mill.

No mention of actual net spend. *

Right, so you are going hang on to the "net spend" argument to justify the poor football we have been seeing in the last 2.5 years. And in particular the boring football seen this season?
And what about the losing/drawing in December?
Or shall we talk about the tendency to score 1 goal/game?
Or that our first team are struggling to win a game (the 4 game winning run was courtesy of many U21s players).
Losing to Bournemouth, Norwich, Middlesborough, Sunderland.
I could go on.

Shall we focus on what is happening on the pitch or shall fixate on the "net spend" argument?

 

[sunama]

Lol, "You see Arsenal celebrating on the pitch after they've secured 4th place. That can't happen at Man United." How are people even arguing that he doesn't speak sense. He's bang fecking on with his comments about spending 250-300m. What have we got to show for that money over what we got rid of? Even if our net spend was 0, we're not as strong now as we were back then.

Scholes is speaking nothing but the truth.

Indeed. He was bang on the money with everything he said.
Steve McManaman also backed him up, as did Rio.
All 3 of them were in agreement.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I do love how he constantly bangs on about the money spent. Last time it was £250 mill, this time it was £300 mill. I'm assuming next time it'll be £350 mill.

No mention of actual net spend. *

I don't get it either, like there's no room for fair criticism so let's just repeat the BS over and over again. They don't need to make up these things, this should be a much better playing squad than it was yesterday. Why all the nonense then, why present fiction like facts and exegerate?
- It isn't 300 million, it isn't 250 million, on spending and squad value Uniteds is still way behind it's biggest rivals
- United dominating the PL and CL only three years ago? Nonsense, it was grinding out a farewell title with players over 40, the 2 central defenders on their last legs, and a signing that guaranteed goals who is already past it, at the expense of the near future. Don't forget the FC Basel games and the Ajax loss at OT either. They were acting like United were on top of the world till only recently, just because of that one title.
- It should have been 5-0? No, it should have been 0-0 if the ref had been correct. Yes, it was terrible and they had chances, no not every chance is a goal, that is football.
- Not every De Gea save is a miracle. It's his job to make saves. He's an excellent goal keeper because on top of beeing a solid goalkeeper he produces an exceptional reflex save every now and then. But every time he does his job it's like he saved the manager with some miracle, and he has had his poor games too.
- Wy forget to mention Arsenal in the good run? Of course you have to take into consideration that Midtylland and Shrewsbury aren't the best of opposition, but Arsenal is good enought to show that they can do it against good opposition too, even with youngsters.
- Obviously this squad has a huge problem with falling back into some parallised, insecure, fearfull football, but why act like that's what the manager wants and sets them up to do? Why act like there's only the tumescent stuff, the dwelling, the scared sideways passing? We've seen them against Chelsea, Arsenal, Midtylland recently, nevermind some matches earlier and last's spring run. We all know how they are supposed the play, what the tactics, the style of play and the on the pitch part of the philosophy is about. Why not blame him for failing to get any consistency, instead of acting like this is what he wants, it's so obviously false.

I like to believe Scholes (and/or Ferdinand) when he says he's not trying to get the manager sacked. But that would mean he's either stupid and has the memory of a gold fish, or that he's overwhelmed by his emotions after a bad game to the extend that he can't control his thoughts and just blabbers on ignoring facts and reason, which makes him unfit to be a pundit.

 

[Lawman]

He speaks a lot of sense although his figures don't always add up!

 

[Dobbs]

True, no arguments there. I don't know what it is that I was expecting. I think because Xavi, Alonso and Pirlo sound so eloquent and like deep thinkers about the game, I thought maybe Scholes will at least be more interesting to listen to than Michael bloody Owen. But well, I guess that's why we never produce any good managers.

I find the "deep thinkers" incredibly boring. It's just football, a really simple game. Discussing it in philosophical terms or just generally overcomplicating is tedious.

Scholes is straightforward and too the point. He's right, somebody should have smashed Lallana.

 

[mark_a]

Right, so you are going hang on to the "net spend" argument to justify the poor football we have been seeing in the last 2.5 years. And in particular the boring football seen this season?
And what about the losing/drawing in December?
Or shall we talk about the tendency to score 1 goal/game?
Or that our first team are struggling to win a game (the 4 game winning run was courtesy of many U21s players).
Losing to Bournemouth, Norwich, Middlesborough, Sunderland.
I could go on.

Shall we focus on what is happening on the pitch or shall fixate on the "net spend" argument?

My point related to Scholes comments, not the situation itself. Trying to highlight my point, which was that gut emotional responses from Scholes are great, but I'd prefer them delivered to our squad in Carrington, than in a studio.


Dr. Funkenstein has probably clarified better than me anyhow!

I'm not suggesting a "net spend" argument justifies anything. Far from it. However, you can't ignore that our clearout figures somewhere in there. Even if it's just to acknowledge that it wasn't done well, leaving us with gaps and a threadbare squad. Reflecting doubly badly on the boss.

So, I'd take your list & raise it. It's been a spiritless team most weeks. Decisions made (or not made) in SAFs last few seasons, the appointment of Moyes, the appointment of LvG - all these mistakes are coming home to roost. Falls squarely on those running MUFC, who must be watching different games to the rest of us.

(the "net spend" argument, would only hold any water if we'd spent well and cleared out well, arguably both were far from ideal)

 

[Smores]

Indeed. He was bang on the money with everything he said.
Steve McManaman also backed him up, as did Rio.
All 3 of them were in agreement.

Don't see the issue with him being a fan spokesman rather than a generic pundit anyway. What I want to see after such a loss is the legends who are the club absolutely furious.

Some people on here still don't like seeing LvG being criticised and only reluctantly want him sacked.