Easily Cruyff.
Who is Europe's greatest ever footballer?
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Cruyff and Ronaldo the two greatest, for me.
Best, Beckenbauer, Xavi, Sir Bobby, Zizou & Eusebio are also contenders.
I don't understand how no one is mentioning Xavi.
Best, Beckenbauer, Xavi, Sir Bobby, Zizou & Eusebio are also contenders.
I don't understand how no one is mentioning Xavi.
Is this not unfair on the modern day footballers?
Zidane is the only one on your list from the 90's
Do some remember older generation more fondly and rate current gen more harshly....or is it really a case of they don't make em like they used to.
Well to me Cruyff was the forefather of the modern European football, real pioneer. Has to be #1.
Next Beckenbauer IMO easily.
3rd and 4th Puskas and Best regardless of order.
5. Van Basten - rare breed and one of the best and most complete strikers in the game.
After that maybe you can slot in Ronaldo, Zidane & Xavi from the modern ones, but you have to add Platini, Eusebio and Muller somewhere to complete the top 10. And after that Laudrup.
Ronaldo.
Roberto Baggio gets into my top 10.
I think that the modern game is very team oriented and very systemic. The players in @Cooksen list are very complete, very intelligent and have been extremely succesful, so in my opinion it's a fair list.
Edit: And the list represents 70 years of football, old players are bound to be heavily represented.
Ronaldo.
But he won't get the recognition until he's been retired a few years.
But he won't get the recognition until he's been retired a few years.
Its more if found those players to have a greater impact on their teams and are some of the greatest footballers ever produced by their countries.
I was born in 93 so maybe the players I listed did have more mystique about them but Ronaldo, Xavi and Robben would be my modern day top 3
I mentioned him (although in the third "tear")
He definitely has in statistical terms.
Before him and Messi, 30 odd was what the best striker in the world (Shevchenko, Henry, Van Nistelrooy) would score and be happy with. Ronaldo hit 42 in the Prem, and has been hitting 50+ season after season since. Look at Neymar or Suarez right now, you think they'd be happy with 30 goals? It'll be a disappointment for them and any goalscorer in future. 40 is a bare minimum, and 50 is what they aim at, something that Ronaldo does with his eyes closed.
If you want me to put a name to it, then the quality of 'getting the goals' no matter how, he has definitely revolutionised it. Him and Messi have raised the bar for the current and future generations.
He has 354 goals in 338 games for Madrid.
No one would dream of that kind of a 5-6 year spell in the 80s, 90s or the early 00s. And that era had plenty of great goal scorers.He has taken the art of goalscoring to a ridiculous level, he is also an athletic phenomenon, and again has put emphasis on the athletic side of the game like no one else did before. I personally don't like that, but I can't deny his influence on that side of the game. Just because he isn't as aesthetically pleasing as the rest of the names taken takes nothing away from the impact he provides on the pitch. No one bar Messi would 'guarantee' you goals in the manner he does. I see Cristiano's name on the team sheet, I automatically count a goal or two for his team, that's what he has done.
Is not intangible, there are a lot of "little things" that turns a superb player like Messi into a legend.
"Remember when Messi guided Argentina to the WC final?", "That one time he emulated Maradona against Getafe?", "That game when he slayed Arsenal with 4 goals in QF's?", "Remember the goal he scored in last year's Copa del Rey final?"...
It goes on like that, then you start looking all he has won while being the leader of his team, all his records... Pele was just "the best" for many years without discussion, Maradona did amazing things with Argentina and had that magnetism in the field where only he could do certain things, Cruyff dominated Europe for 3 years with Ajax, kept that level with his national side and then he enlarged his legacy as a manager, Di Stefano was the foundation of the best club ever and gained the praise of everyone that saw him play as "the greatest".
They have some moments in their career were they single-handedly changed the history of football. Ronaldo is a great scorer, he has scored in finals, his numbers are absurd, but you won't say "That Portugal side that fought Spain at the EC championship final", "Ronaldo winning 3 champions league in a row with Real", "Ronaldo became Real's engine and won them a final". Scorers get a lot of praise but they're not "total footballers" like the ones we call GOAT.
Same reason why a guy like Gerd Muller with all his trophies and brilliant numbers has only 3 mentions in this thread, and not even making it into top 5
Hugo Sanchez did something similar in the 80's in Spain, Romario and Ronaldo were close statistically speaking to Ronaldo and Messi in a time where there was less difference between clubsHe definitely has in statistical terms.
Before him and Messi, 30 odd was what the best striker in the world (Shevchenko, Henry, Van Nistelrooy) would score and be happy with. Ronaldo hit 42 in the Prem, and has been hitting 50+ season after season since. Look at Neymar or Suarez right now, you think they'd be happy with 30 goals? It'll be a disappointment for them and any goalscorer in future. 40 is a bare minimum, and 50 is what they aim at, something that Ronaldo does with his eyes closed.
If you want me to put a name to it, then the quality of 'getting the goals' no matter how, he has definitely revolutionised it. Him and Messi have raised the bar for the current and future generations.
He has 354 goals in 338 games for Madrid.
He has taken the art of goalscoring to a ridiculous level, he is also an athletic phenomenon, and again has put emphasis on the athletic side of the game like no one else did before. I personally don't like that, but I can't deny his influence on that side of the game. Just because he isn't as aesthetically pleasing as the rest of the names taken takes nothing away from the impact he provides on the pitch. No one bar Messi would 'guarantee' you goals in the manner he does. I see Cristiano's name on the team sheet, I automatically count a goal or two for his team, that's what he has done.
And this is valid for both Messi and Ronaldo, you take a look into their numbers at their clubs and "woah", then you look at their stats with the national team and they're not gods, a player like Villa outscores them while playing less games with Spain. That speaks volumes of how important is playing in a dominat team, Villa used to play with Messi and Ronaldo teammates in the national side and at that level he was a better scorer than them
I don't disagree that you need to provide him service, but that's pretty much all you need. There's no way to stop him scoring if he gets the service, something I wouldn't say for Villa, Sanchez or 99.99% strikers to have played the game.
Dribbling, crossing, passing, vision. Not that he lacks but its clearly not on the same level as some of those players you quoted like Maradona, Zidane, Messi, Cruyff. He's a monster when it comes to scoring goals and athleticism though and is undoubtedly one of the best to have played the game. He's brutally efficient and consistent like a machine but for me there is no magic in his play.
I don;t think anyone is trying to argue that he's a GOAT at the level of Cruyff or example.
He's easily in the same tier as someone like Puskas though, and for me he has surpassed Zidane on club level. In fact on club level, he has really, really few peers.
Well, some people do. I'm just citing Villa because he was a great striker for Valencia but his numbers with Spain were absurd. That was something that made me look at Ronaldo and Messi stats at club level in a different way. Not saying it's easy but when top players like them get a lot of help from their team numbers can be deceiving
Puskas might be underrated by almost everyone, then we have Zidane, who I think people overrate a bit, sometimes people here in Spain try to put him at Cruyff/Pele/Di Stefano/Maradona/Messi level and that's absurd. I think it's just easy to say Zidane was better than Ronaldo as he is more "likable" in football and personal terms, but to me Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Eusebio are kings, after that you could argue for many players and ranking them is difficult, Ronaldo is obviously in that group
Remember I was only talking of club level. Puskas' spell for Hungary in the 50s was fantastic, though no Portugal team Cristiano has played comes anywhere near to the Mighty Magyars. On club level though I'd choose Ronaldo ahead of him, and overall I place the two on level terms.
I'd like to know why you place Eusebio's career greater than Cristiano's? I know he was good at creating for others but his primary strengths were still running with that powerful frame at defenders from deep and scoring all kinds of goals.
Unreal ability, nice choice of clips.
You literally selected a performance against Arsenal in the last 16 as a career defining moment for Messi. Ronaldo put a better incarnation of that Arsenal team away in the CL semifinals, in a subpar season by his records.
As far as dominance of a certain period, what would you call his last 3.5 years in the Premier League, or the 2011-12 season where he literally dragged a kicking and screaming Real to the La Liga title? Lack of complete dominance of an international tournament is a fair black mark, but it's also a criteria failed by someone else on that list... Not that we're being consistent or anything.
You just proved my point by using the word "magic". We could identify moments in Ronaldo's film reel that would count as "magical", under any definition you decided to use. Or we could discuss his consistency in brilliance, a trait some of the players listed (Zidane? Ffs) didn't come close to matching. But then the discussion will then rotate to now the best players need to be playmakers or something Ronaldo isn't, because his style of play looks "forced". Not invalid viewpoints, but definitely not based in any tangible criteria, but is instead, entirely subjective. Which is cool and interesting, seeing what various people value most.
I think the last 2 years of his career have skewed people's perspective of how complete Ronaldo was as the quintessential counter attacking player, at his peak with United and Real.
Aye, while his peak is at Madrid, people seem to be disregarding his United Ballon D'or winning stint. He was sensational from 06-08 in a league that was dominating Europe at the time with 3-4 quality teams. Goals in Cl final, semis, that Porto hit, etc.
I don't see how that can be described as anything like a revolution - that's just mastery of a certain facet of the game. Cruyff and Beckenbauer brought something genuinely new to the game whereas Ronaldo's just repeating what Puskás and Eusebio were doing decades earlier.He definitely has in statistical terms.
Before him and Messi, 30 odd was what the best striker in the world (Shevchenko, Henry, Van Nistelrooy) would score and be happy with. Ronaldo hit 42 in the Prem, and has been hitting 50+ season after season since. Look at Neymar or Suarez right now, you think they'd be happy with 30 goals? It'll be a disappointment for them and any goalscorer in future. 40 is a bare minimum, and 50 is what they aim at, something that Ronaldo does with his eyes closed.
If you want me to put a name to it, then the quality of 'getting the goals' no matter how, he has definitely revolutionised it. Him and Messi have raised the bar for the current and future generations.
He has 354 goals in 338 games for Madrid.
He has taken the art of goalscoring to a ridiculous level, he is also an athletic phenomenon, and again has put emphasis on the athletic side of the game like no one else did before. I personally don't like that, but I can't deny his influence on that side of the game. Just because he isn't as aesthetically pleasing as the rest of the names taken takes nothing away from the impact he provides on the pitch. No one bar Messi would 'guarantee' you goals in the manner he does. I see Cristiano's name on the team sheet, I automatically count a goal or two for his team, that's what he has done.
Shame Chris Byland got injured and vanished from the game.
Best
Eusebio
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
I guess people are voting for players they have seen (live)
Eusebio
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
I guess people are voting for players they have seen (live)
The fact that you had to look half a century ago says it all. This sort of goalscoring prowess hasn't been seen since the tactical evolution of the 60s and 70s. It was seen during the days of 5 pronged attacks, sure, but since then, every since tactical systems in place currently have been in use, you haven't anything as ruthless as this. It's an insane feat, there's no way around it. And it has changed the game in quite a lot of ways. All you have to do is go back a decade and ask if anyone thought a player would score at the rate Cristiano has. Even a single 50 goal season in that day and age would have seemed a fantasy, in one of the big leagues, but doing that for 6 years runnings, that consistency leaves him with very, very few peers, and just the one and only in this era.
It's an incredible achievement and he's an exceptional player, that goes without saying. I just don't see how any of that relates back to being revolutionary. There are lots of incredible players that didn't revolutionise the game like Cruyff or Beckenbauer. Maradona for starters.
I've explained you why I think it is, it has changed the expectations completely from a world class player right now. Once these two leave, 30 goals a season isn't going to be an exceptional tally. Neymar, Suarez, whoever else from now on, has to match these numbers in order to prove their greatness (talking only of goalscorers of course). That right there is the revolution for me, something that wasn't happening for a while, certainly not in recent past has been done by these two and now that is the bar. And the margin they have raised it by is pretty much double of what it was. Really, once the attack-minded formations were done with, no one really thought one would see those kind of numbers again. But to see them again, after the game has evolved so much and no such 5 man attacks exist anymore, is incredible. Being true to myself, I thought the 42 was insane enough, but it just went on and on. And it STILL hasn't stopped, despite the decline, being managed by that clown Rafa and the circus that Madrid is. A machine, in a very true sense of the word if you wanna put a label on it. So if Beckenbauer brought the libero, if Cruyff brought the false 9 and total football (I know there are instances of these prior as well), Cristiano brought in the machine.
And, also the fact that it is widely known that he's achieved most of this through sheer hard work and building up the athletic side of his body is going to inspire thousands of kids to follow this lifestyle. Young footballers would now be focussing a lot more on physique and athleticism than learning the technique of the game. The fact that Cristiano exists during a team with the media hype at it's maximum since the inception of the game also adds to the influence Cristiano has around the world right now.
Lastly, tactically, you will see managers developing players in a similar fashion, as this is the most fresh and widely broadcasted example of physical dominance in football. Like I said, I don't like that one bit, but it will happen. e.g. managers will focus on making a player get a similar leap that Cristiano does, as he has shown what a weapon that can be. Of course, he's not the first one to score headers, but he just pushes everything to the absolute limit and the world gets to see the prowess of a footballer's physique and what an impact it can have at it's best, thanks to Cristiano.
In fact, given the coverage he gets, he will influence a bigger population than either Cruyff or Beckenbauer could in that age, and the results will be seen in due time. They already are, to be honest, just look around the upcoming footballers and who they idolise.
I almost agree with this, but for me Zidane goes into the second tier and Beckenbauer pops up beneath Cruyff in the top tier. Maldini should also be mentioned.
Being big, strong, quick (i.e. athletic) is a natural talent. Kicking a ball and everything else that comes with it is a learned skill or else evolution has failed.
Isn't the dominance of the current elite players also at least partly caused by the concentration of quality among the elite clubs? At the moment we have a hand full of clubs which basically shit on everything bar a very few other clubs who maybe have a chance against them. Something comparable to Ajax (or any team from outside the top 4 leagues, aside from PSG) winning the CL seems completely unthinkable. And it's not just down to Ronaldo and Messi alone, Bale has like 15 goals 10 assists in 18 league matches, Benzema has 24 goals and 4 assists in 26 matches. If you take out Ronaldos 8 penalty goals this season he's at 33 goals in 38 matches, or 103 minutes per goal, compared to Benzema's 80 minutes a goal or Bale's 100 minutes per goal.
Not to take anything away from Ronaldo he's obviously an amazing player, but I feel like elite teams in general and Barca, Real and Bayern in partcular just score a lot more goals than they used to because they are so far ahead of most other teams.
Not to take anything away from Ronaldo he's obviously an amazing player, but I feel like elite teams in general and Barca, Real and Bayern in partcular just score a lot more goals than they used to because they are so far ahead of most other teams.
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Zidane. He was literally untouchable. Never seen him give a loose ball away or get dispossessed. Magical.
Jordan Henderson
Ronaldo Fat
Messi
Maradona
Pelé
vs.
Cruyff
Ronaldo
Beckenbauer
Xavi
no contest really
Messi
Maradona
Pelé
vs.
Cruyff
Ronaldo
Beckenbauer
Xavi
no contest really
Teams would be more interesting.
I mightn't be as old as some other members who have possibly seen Beckenbauer and Cruyff on several occasions, or even live.
But, for me, Xavi from the summer of 2008 up until the retention of Spain's European Championship in 2012 was completely dominant, and he elevated the players around him towards greatness.
2008/2009 is one of the finest individual seasons you will ever see from a player. He was unplayable. 32 assists.
But, for me, Xavi from the summer of 2008 up until the retention of Spain's European Championship in 2012 was completely dominant, and he elevated the players around him towards greatness.
2008/2009 is one of the finest individual seasons you will ever see from a player. He was unplayable. 32 assists.
It's hard to disagree that Ronaldo has revolutionised football really. Before him and Messi, I would look at players like Henry and just think his records and how he always seem to score is incredible, but Ronaldo has been scoring 20-30 more games in a season than Henry would normally get. It's true now that players getting 25+ goals a season would be less impressive given Ronaldo and Messi's tallies over 6-7 seasons as well. It's going to be seen as the norm, or not getting near that level would be seen as failure. The old impressive 1 in 2 record seems outdated because of Ronaldo and Messi.
Maradona by a mile (world)
Laudrup should be up there.
Same. I don't understand how Zidane gets mentioned in these elite player lists. I can't compare him with players I've never seen play regularly like Eusebio, Puskas, Best, Cruyff and Beckenbauer. But players of a more modern era like Van Basten, Gullit, Baresi, Maldini, Xavi, Ronaldo, etc. he was not on the same level.
It's even debatable whether he was on the same level as Laudrup, Matthaus, Figo, Raul, Baggio, Stoichkov, Iniesta, etc.
It is not such a hard thing to understand why Zidane is rocking the charts followed by Cristiano. The poll says pick all your favourite players and not the one you think was the best. A good amount of the under 35 age fans have seen Zizou sparkle and have made him their favourite. It is difficult not to vote him as your favourite, in that case regardless of your knowledge about Cryuff or Best.
Don't Arsenal win almost all the opinion polls nowadays?
Don't Arsenal win almost all the opinion polls nowadays?