American Sports

[RedPed]

This isn't a criticism in any way but just an observation and a genuine need to know. Been following the NBA which has been great (and the NCAA) but still can't get my head round the best of 7 games in the NBA play-off rounds. And that's after 80-odd games of basketball every few days in the regular season. I'm just thinking of what it would be like having to play Everton 7 times to get to the FA Cup Final this year!

I'm just intrigued by the American's perceptions of sport and how they play their games. How they view draws or ties, all the time-outs in a game, trial by video, cheerleaders, in-game entertainments, advertising etc., etc.

I love watching NBA basketball but all the other stuff, like during timeouts just seems so over the top...gives me a headache just watching it all. I'd love to get to a game though to experience it first hand!

I'm also intrigued by the fact the NBA has only 32 top teams for such a large country. Doesn't that get boring and why isn't there at least one team for each state in the US and North America? Don't they have any sports leagues where teams can be relegated/promoted?

Don't the US games also have things similar to sudden death, penalty shoot-outs, away goals/points, replays etc., etc. Also with the size of the US, how does it work with away supporters? Do they have rivalries like in football (soccer) and what about chanting? I ponder on these things all the time.

I suppose I could find all this stuff out eventually with a bit if research but someone may be able to enlighten me?

 

[justboy68]

From my limited knowledge of American sports the reason the professional leagues don't have promotion and relegation is because, unlike for example football teams in England, sports teams in America aren't their own institutions, rather the league itself is the institution and the teams are just franchises. When we hear American owners talk about clubs as a 'sports franchise' obviously they get mocked, but in North America that's actually exactly what the teams are hence the confusion.

As for the 7-game playoff system in basketball. I'd guess the system was at least in part designed to reward consistency when declaring a champion, as we all know any team can sneak a win on a given day. That begs the question why they don't just have a points based round robin system to declare a champion like we do in football? The answer to that is a logistical one. The US is huge so rather than every team having to repeatedly travel across the vast country every other weekend , they have an uneven season schedule whereby teams face off against closer opponents more often than opponents on the other side of the country. However due to the uneven fixtures declaring a champion through a league system like we have in the Premier League wouldn't be fair as some teams would have tougher fixture lists than others. So they add in the playoff system.

I'm not sure why American sports have always had opposition to the concept of drawing games. My guess is it is just a coincidence and that's how their sports were set up in the early days and the tradition stuck.

 

[RDCR07]

You are talking about too many games in basketball. Then think about baseball where the games are almost twice as long. And they play twice the games NBA does and in around 6 months. Thats almost a game a day since I think the season is 162 games.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

You are talking about too many games in basketball. Then think about baseball where the games are almost twice as long. And they play twice the games NBA does and in around 6 months. Thats almost a game a day since I think the season is 162 games.

Yeah, the regular season in baseball is pretty extreme. Teams pretty much play 6 days out of 7. I've never understood why it needs to be so many games.


In the NBA and NHL, I find the 82 game regular season a little tough going. In the NHL, I think the games are pretty good for the first 20, so teams can set a marker and make a good start, but there is often major lull until the final 20 games. Mid-season hockey can be really fecking boring. The playoff series' are great though.

On the flipside, you have the NFL which never feels long enough with just 16 games, and up to 4 post-season games. There's just no middleground with the big four North American sports.

 

[JustAFan]

This isn't a criticism in any way but just an observation and a genuine need to know. Been following the NBA which has been great (and the NCAA) but still can't get my head round the best of 7 games in the NBA play-off rounds. And that's after 80-odd games of basketball every few days in the regular season. I'm just thinking of what it would be like having to play Everton 7 times to get to the FA Cup Final this year!

I'm just intrigued by the American's perceptions of sport and how they play their games. How they view draws or ties, all the time-outs in a game, trial by video, cheerleaders, in-game entertainments, advertising etc., etc.

I love watching NBA basketball but all the other stuff, like during timeouts just seems so over the top...gives me a headache just watching it all. I'd love to get to a game though to experience it first hand!

I'm also intrigued by the fact the NBA has only 32 top teams for such a large country. Doesn't that get boring and why isn't there at least one team for each state in the US and North America? Don't they have any sports leagues where teams can be relegated/promoted?

Don't the US games also have things similar to sudden death, penalty shoot-outs, away goals/points, replays etc., etc. Also with the size of the US, how does it work with away supporters? Do they have rivalries like in football (soccer) and what about chanting? I ponder on these things all the time.

I suppose I could find all this stuff out eventually with a bit if research but someone may be able to enlighten me?

Most leagues in most sports in the US have added extra time and other methods to try and make sure games do not end in draws, though they do still happen.

The timeouts for TV suck, but are an offshoot of the fact that our TV networks are not government owned so they need to operate at a profit, so they sell advertising. Be nice to have fewer time outs for TV commercials, you will find very few people in the US who don't think so. We sort of view them as a necessary evil, though there probably are other ways around them.

Trial by video? What's that?

Cheerleaders, meh I ignore them. They were okay back in my school days when we had them for our school teams, but for the most part they get ignored. Sadly at some NFL games rather than ignore them, they do get quite a bit of sexual harassment from fans. So yeah for major league teams, get rid of them.

In game entertainments, like half time shows? Too damn long for the Super Bowl and over hyped. Give me local high school bands playing at half time as a bit of fun for the kids involved. All the music playing at time outs or pre-game etc I find annoying.

Each state does not have a major league team in each of the major sports because, well some of them are pretty small states without large metropolitan areas necessary to support a major league team. Take North Dakota less than 1 million people spread out over 182,272 square kilometers. Why would 32 teams in a league be boring?

No we don't do the whole relegation/promotion thing, just not how our sports evolved. Different strokes for different folks is all. The leagues are all franchise based, which means they control who gets a team and who doesn't. But again it is a system that evolved over time as the sports grew from local teams playing their neighboring towns and cities, to growing to where well money could be made.

Yes we have extra innings, sudden death overtime, the NHL has some interesting OT rules during the season, etc. Replays, as in a replay of an FA Cup that finishes in a draw, no we don't have that in our major sports. We do have a competition like the FA Cup, but I do not follow it much so not sure if they have replays in that .

Yes their are rivalries, hard to avoid in sports. Chanting not a big thing in the US, some MLS teams have it, and some university teams have some, but not really a thing in the US.

 

[RedPed]

Most leagues in most sports in the US have added extra time and other methods to try and make sure games do not end in draws, though they do still happen.

The timeouts for TV suck, but are an offshoot of the fact that our TV networks are not government owned so they need to operate at a profit, so they sell advertising. Be nice to have fewer time outs for TV commercials, you will find very few people in the US who don't think so. We sort of view them as a necessary evil, though there probably are other ways around them.

Trial by video? What's that?

Cheerleaders, meh I ignore them. They were okay back in my school days when we had them for our school teams, but for the most part they get ignored. Sadly at some NFL games rather than ignore them, they do get quite a bit of sexual harassment from fans. So yeah for major league teams, get rid of them.

In game entertainments, like half time shows? Too damn long for the Super Bowl and over hyped. Give me local high school bands playing at half time as a bit of fun for the kids involved. All the music playing at time outs or pre-game etc I find annoying.

Each state does not have a major league team in each of the major sports because, well some of them are pretty small states without large metropolitan areas necessary to support a major league team. Take North Dakota less than 1 million people spread out over 182,272 square kilometers. Why would 32 teams in a league be boring?

No we don't do the whole relegation/promotion thing, just not how our sports evolved. Different strokes for different folks is all. The leagues are all franchise based, which means they control who gets a team and who doesn't. But again it is a system that evolved over time as the sports grew from local teams playing their neighboring towns and cities, to growing to where well money could be made.

Yes we have extra innings, sudden death overtime, the NHL has some interesting OT rules during the season, etc. Replays, as in a replay of an FA Cup that finishes in a draw, no we don't have that in our major sports. We do have a competition like the FA Cup, but I do not follow it much so not sure if they have replays in that .

Yes their are rivalries, hard to avoid in sports. Chanting not a big thing in the US, some MLS teams have it, and some university teams have some, but not really a thing in the US.

Trial by video...I remember watching an NBA game not so long back and there was a contentious foul I think. The game stopped and the refs and officials were huddled in front of the monitors reviewing the play over and over to come to a decision. Took a good few minutes but they weren't rushing and there didn't appear to be any pressure on them to do so. It just appeared accepted as a part of the game.

You make an interesting point about North Dakota but a small club like Burton Albion with a relatively small population and fans could potentially get into the Premier League and win it (hypothetically, of course). Each city and town has a football team in the UK with the 'potential' to hit the big time. That's what makes the competition so great. It's a shame that you don't have that in the US. There's no reason why every state at least should not be represented?

Why don't you like the concept of a draw?

Some good explanations here by the way, thanks!

 

[RedPed]

You are talking about too many games in basketball. Then think about baseball where the games are almost twice as long. And they play twice the games NBA does and in around 6 months. Thats almost a game a day since I think the season is 162 games.

Holy feck!!!

How does that work and where do all the fans come from?? Think I need to do some research here!

 

[RedPed]

From my limited knowledge of American sports the reason the professional leagues don't have promotion and relegation is because, unlike for example football teams in England, sports teams in America aren't their own institutions, rather the league itself is the institution and the teams are just franchises. When we hear American owners talk about clubs as a 'sports franchise' obviously they get mocked, but in North America that's actually exactly what the teams are hence the confusion.

As for the 7-game playoff system in basketball. I'd guess the system was at least in part designed to reward consistency when declaring a champion, as we all know any team can sneak a win on a given day. That begs the question why they don't just have a points based round robin system to declare a champion like we do in football? The answer to that is a logistical one. The US is huge so rather than every team having to repeatedly travel across the vast country every other weekend , they have an uneven season schedule whereby teams face off against closer opponents more often than opponents on the other side of the country. However due to the uneven fixtures declaring a champion through a league system like we have in the Premier League wouldn't be fair as some teams would have tougher fixture lists than others. So they add in the playoff system.

I'm not sure why American sports have always had opposition to the concept of drawing games. My guess is it is just a coincidence and that's how their sports were set up in the early days and the tradition stuck.

The consistency bit makes sense I suppose, but c'mon 7 times??? How about the good old-fashioned best of three?

 

[Keeps It tidy]

To the whole only 30 teams point. In the US Collegiate and High School teams are the teams of the community. That is where you find the most passion and tribalism in American sports.

 

[Raoul]

This isn't a criticism in any way but just an observation and a genuine need to know. Been following the NBA which has been great (and the NCAA) but still can't get my head round the best of 7 games in the NBA play-off rounds. And that's after 80-odd games of basketball every few days in the regular season. I'm just thinking of what it would be like having to play Everton 7 times to get to the FA Cup Final this year!

I'm just intrigued by the American's perceptions of sport and how they play their games. How they view draws or ties, all the time-outs in a game, trial by video, cheerleaders, in-game entertainments, advertising etc., etc.

I love watching NBA basketball but all the other stuff, like during timeouts just seems so over the top...gives me a headache just watching it all. I'd love to get to a game though to experience it first hand!

I'm also intrigued by the fact the NBA has only 32 top teams for such a large country. Doesn't that get boring and why isn't there at least one team for each state in the US and North America? Don't they have any sports leagues where teams can be relegated/promoted?

Don't the US games also have things similar to sudden death, penalty shoot-outs, away goals/points, replays etc., etc. Also with the size of the US, how does it work with away supporters? Do they have rivalries like in football (soccer) and what about chanting? I ponder on these things all the time.

I suppose I could find all this stuff out eventually with a bit if research but someone may be able to enlighten me?

Probably has a lot to do with ad revenues they get from 7 games instead of one. Once you grow up with best of series its hard to imagine a world without them. Baseball used to have best of 5 as well back in the day iirc

 

[JustAFan]

Money does drive the expansion of playoff series. In most sports the early rounds used to be best of 5, Best of 7 was the finals. The expansion to best of 7 for the early rounds should be done away with.

Too many teams in the playoffs also.

Some sports by nature lend themselves to the best of x format. Others like the NFL are better suited to the one game playoff format.

Different sports, different countries , different ways of doing things.

 

[JustAFan]

Trial by video...I remember watching an NBA game not so long back and there was a contentious foul I think. The game stopped and the refs and officials were huddled in front of the monitors reviewing the play over and over to come to a decision. Took a good few minutes but they weren't rushing and there didn't appear to be any pressure on them to do so. It just appeared accepted as a part of the game.

You make an interesting point about North Dakota but a small club like Burton Albion with a relatively small population and fans could potentially get into the Premier League and win it (hypothetically, of course). Each city and town has a football team in the UK with the 'potential' to hit the big time. That's what makes the competition so great. It's a shame that you don't have that in the US. There's no reason why every state at least should not be represented?

Why don't you like the concept of a draw?

Some good explanations here by the way, thanks!

Video replay. It will be in all sports soon all over the world. Took some getting used to. The down side is the time it can take. It can also have some funky effects on rules (ie the whole mess the NFL has gotten into with defining a catch). overall though it is not a bad thing.

As far as the every state thing it is just not how sports developed here in the US. Different countries, different ways of doing things.

When I started following the PL I put aside how we do things in the US and just accepted that there were different ways of doing things.

with baseball there is also a vast development system for younger players. We call them the minor leagues. There are teams all over the US but the players are supplied by the Major League teams. Players move up the system as their ability progresses or they don't if they don't have the talent. For instance where I live we have the top "farm team" of the Minnesota Twins. In the past we had been affiliated with the Baltimore Orioles and the St Louis Cardinals.

 

[Sarni]

I actually like playoffs in basketball. Remember that these games are much shorter and require less running than football because they're played on a small court, also they have plenty of intervals and players rest during games. The best-of-7 is a fair way of determining who the better team as you're unlikely to fluke 4 wins against superior team in 2 weeks. It's also far more exciting to have it this way rather than just the league because it's getting more intense and half the teams still have a shot at the title in April. I think they're fine.

Baseball with 162 games is a bit bonkers I agree.

 

[JustAFan]

All our major sports except American Football could do with a shortening of the regular season, not by huge amounts, just some tweaking. NBA and NHL could do with 65 to 70 game regular seasons. Baseball could easily reduce it down to 140 to 150. but of course that means reduced revenues and the players would need to agree to adjusting their contracts down.

The 162 game schedule has been in place since around 1962 or so. Before that it was either 154 or 148 games, I think.

 

[Brown Toothpick]

You can say that these sports prioritise entertainment, so it can be seen totally different to other countries.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

As a huge NBA Fan, I wish they would cut the playoff series to best of 5's, Apart from the Finals. I think that way you would see more upsets to.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

I think the NHL lends itself well to the best of 7 format. Game 7 hockey is often just ridiculously intense where composure and gameplans go out of the window as the game goes on. Especially when it's two rival teams going for a palce in the next round/finals. It's just the 82 game season that is excessive, IMO.

 

[JustAFan]

Should note also that Baseball is a sport that lends itself to being played everyday. Starts around April 4th usually, ends a couple of days into October. Essentially 6 months so on average 27 games a month.

 

[RoadTrip]

You can say that these sports prioritise entertainment, so it can be seen totally different to other countries.

I kind of agree with this. The culture of sport and going to watch live is markedly different in the US. It's not JUST about the game, it is very much entertainment too.

Of the US sports I only really follow the NFL and I watch that a lot. It's one of my favourite sports. Sure there's a lot of stops and starts but once you understand the tactics and technicalities it makes sense. I'd agree sometimes it's excessive and no doubt money and television has had a huge impact, which maybe has led to some less good things creep in. Overall the structure of the league works.

As plenty have said, it's just different. There's no real right it wrong I guess.

 

[RedPed]

Should note also that Baseball is a sport that lends itself to being played everyday. Starts around April 4th usually, ends a couple of days into October. Essentially 6 months so on average 27 games a month.

How can a sport lend itself to being played every day?? where do all the all the supporters come from?

Like I said in my OP, it's not a criticism or anything like that, I'm just genuinely intrigued by the vast difference between American and ROW sports.

 

[RedPed]

Another question I have about American Sports is don't they get bored playing the same teams year in year out and how much competition is there really when there are just 30 teams, 32 teams etc., etc. competing against each other all the time?

Why are their sports not played internationally on a major level and don't they miss international competition?? I know it's just different over there...but still can't get my head around it...and how much money is generated in the primary leagues.

 

[RobinLFC]

NHL playoffs are definitely the best imo, because it seems almost arbitrary who goes through. Upsets are almost guaranteed no matter how well a team played in the regular season. The intensity is so big and the OT rules are way better than in the regular season (but I understand why you can't put 'em in place for a whole season), just play on until someone scores the winner. I get my NHL Playoff Bracket predictions wrong almost every year whereas in the NBA you can almost predict everyone's path to the Finals without much trouble.

Another question I have about American Sports is don't they get bored playing the same teams year in year out and how much competition is there really when there are just 30 teams, 32 teams etc., etc. competing against each other all the time?

Why are their sports not played internationally on a major level and don't they miss international competition?? I know it's just different over there...but still can't get my head around it...and how much money is generated in the primary leagues.

I certainly don't get bored because of that, you just simply have to accept it and go on with it. It's nice to know that 'your' team can never be relegated no matter how bad they're playing. In fact, you'll have the best odds to get the top pick in next year's draft which means the most exciting highschool/college prospect will join your team. Unless you're doing something wrong like the 76ers or Oilers have been doing over the last couple of years, you're bound to get better after some miserable times because of the draft system that's in place. The fact that you'll always play the same team (unless they relocate but it remains the same franchise) makes for some intriguing rivalries as well, Celtics vs Lakers which is one of the oldest rivalries in the NBA and got a whole new chapter in '08 and '09 when both teams played each other in the Finals in consecutive seasons.

I don't know how the situation is with away fans - there are defintely always fans of the away team present in the NBA, but I don't know if they actually travel the distance to watch their team play or if they are local people supporting the away team, I suppose it's a bit of both.

It's just the way it is in the United States, it's a closed league and if you want to support a local team, you turn to your college football team for example. Games in the NFL are played on Thursday, Sunday and Monday, while college games are Friday and Saturday if I'm not mistaken, so the interest is huge and atmosphere often amazing in the stadiums.

I don't think it would make sense for US franchises to play in international competitions. Who should they play against? They're way ahead of their international counterparts, if a team wins the NBA, NHL or NFL you can bet your house they will win any international competition as well. It's telling that the NBA Champions are crowned as "World Champions" - if you can win the NBA, you're the best basketball franchise in the world, end of story.

As for the money, the NFL makes crazy money. The commissioner wants the NFL to be earning $25 BILLION in 2027 with a growth of $1 billion per year (source), so that says it all for me really. This is an interesting read on how the NFL makes its money, it's also mentioned that the Premier League generates only half the revenue of the NFL.

I guess you just have to accept that it's a different culture and has a different history. Don't compare it to (English) football too much and try to enjoy it for what it is because it's truly awesome. The intensity and tension of a Game 7 in the Finals or at the Super Bowl, especially when your preferred team is participating, is just something else.

 

[RedPed]

NHL playoffs are definitely the best imo, because it seems almost arbitrary who goes through. Upsets are almost guaranteed no matter how well a team played in the regular season. The intensity is so big and the OT rules are way better than in the regular season (but I understand why you can't put 'em in place for a whole season), just play on until someone scores the winner. I get my NHL Playoff Bracket predictions wrong almost every year whereas in the NBA you can almost predict everyone's path to the Finals without much trouble.


I certainly don't get bored because of that, you just simply have to accept it and go on with it. It's nice to know that 'your' team can never be relegated no matter how bad they're playing. In fact, you'll have the best odds to get the top pick in next year's draft which means the most exciting highschool/college prospect will join your team. Unless you're doing something wrong like the 76ers or Oilers have been doing over the last couple of years, you're bound to get better after some miserable times because of the draft system that's in place. The fact that you'll always play the same team (unless they relocate but it remains the same franchise) makes for some intriguing rivalries as well, Celtics vs Lakers which is one of the oldest rivalries in the NBA and got a whole new chapter in '08 and '09 when both teams played each other in the Finals in consecutive seasons.

I don't know how the situation is with away fans - there are defintely always fans of the away team present in the NBA, but I don't know if they actually travel the distance to watch their team play or if they are local people supporting the away team, I suppose it's a bit of both.

It's just the way it is in the United States, it's a closed league and if you want to support a local team, you turn to your college football team for example. Games in the NFL are played on Thursday, Sunday and Monday, while college games are Friday and Saturday if I'm not mistaken, so the interest is huge and atmosphere often amazing in the stadiums.

I don't think it would make sense for US franchises to play in international competitions. Who should they play against? They're way ahead of their international counterparts, if a team wins the NBA, NHL or NFL you can bet your house they will win any international competition as well. It's telling that the NBA Champions are crowned as "World Champions" - if you can win the NBA, you're the best basketball franchise in the world, end of story.

As for the money, the NFL makes crazy money. The commissioner wants the NFL to be earning $25 BILLION in 2027 with a growth of $1 billion per year (source), so that says it all for me really. This is an interesting read on how the NFL makes its money, it's also mentioned that the Premier League generates only half the revenue of the NFL.

I guess you just have to accept that it's a different culture and has a different history. Don't compare it to (English) football too much and try to enjoy it for what it is because it's truly awesome. The intensity and tension of a Game 7 in the Finals or at the Super Bowl, especially when your preferred team is participating, is just something else.

Great post. I do accept that's how it is and I get the World Champions bit because that's their bread and butter year after year. I'm just surprised they've not even reached out to make their sports more global pretty much like the MLS has developed on their own turf, and World Cup USA in '94 was just great. I just think it's all so insular and yeah the Americans might love it but that's just s bit short-sighted IMO.

 

[JustAFan]

How can a sport lend itself to being played every day?? where do all the all the supporters come from?

Like I said in my OP, it's not a criticism or anything like that, I'm just genuinely intrigued by the vast difference between American and ROW sports.

You could answer both those questions if you just think about it. Not being rude but some sports you don't need the break between games you do in others. In the NFL trying to play more than once a week would never work due to the nature of the game. NBA and NHL can be played a few times a week.

Most of our major sports teams are located in large metropolitan areas that is were the fans come from.

 

[JustAFan]

Great post. I do accept that's how it is and I get the World Champions bit because that's their bread and butter year after year. I'm just surprised they've not even reached out to make their sports more global pretty much like the MLS has developed on their own turf, and World Cup USA in '94 was just great. I just think it's all so insular and yeah the Americans might love it but that's just s bit short-sighted IMO.

Baseball has spread across a decent part of the globe, as has basketball, NFL is marketing itself around the world and has been for years, hockey is played in many countries around the world. So the major sports in North America have spread just not reached the popularity of football.


MLB about 27% of the players were born outside the U.S. The NHL and NBA have size able contingents from outside North America. American Football has not spread as much in terms of where players come.

 

[JustAFan]

The World Champion tag is being used less. You see more often terms like Stanley Cup Champions, Super Bowl champions, NBA Champions though baseball still uses the World Series tag (been doing so since the early 1900's so why change now).

 

[JustAFan]

Another question I have about American Sports is don't they get bored playing the same teams year in year out and how much competition is there really when there are just 30 teams, 32 teams etc., etc. competing against each other all the time?

Why are their sports not played internationally on a major level and don't they miss international competition?? I know it's just different over there...but still can't get my head around it...and how much money is generated in the primary leagues.

Why would it get boring? Does it get boring seeing a United playing City, Pool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs etc etc every year? pretty much the same teams year after year in the CL?

Baseball has had attempts to play at the international level it even has been in the Olympics. Basketball has several good international competitions including the Olympics. As does Ice Hockey.

 

[JustAFan]

Attendance wise, the NFL as a whole averages around 65,000 to 70,000 per game. MLB averages around 30,000. The NBA and NHL average around 18,000 each. This is for regular season games.

 

[RedPed]

Why would it get boring? Does it get boring seeing a United playing City, Pool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs etc etc every year? pretty much the same teams year after year in the CL?

Baseball has had attempts to play at the international level it even has been in the Olympics. Basketball has several good international competitions including the Olympics. As does Ice Hockey.

But we don't though. Every year three teams go out and three new ones come in. So we always have new opposition every year. We play different clubs in the cup competitions and there is the opportunity to play European clubs too.

 

[JustAFan]

But we don't though. Every year three teams go out and three new ones come in. So we always have new opposition every year. We play different clubs in the cup competitions and there is the opportunity to play European clubs too.

Yeah a few clubs change, but some of them are the same clubs coming up and down. In reality most of the teams you play in the PL and in the CL are the same clubs you see in those competitions year in and year out. Is it really that exciting to be playing Burnley (again) next season or are the games against Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Chelsea, the ones that are the big games on the schedule? I love the relegation and promotion battles, think it is great, but it is not how sports leagues are run in North America, and there really is no reason for that to change. Just like there is no reason for the PL or others to change they way they are run.

Let's think this through, MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, have millions of fans in North America and outside of North America, it really does not look like people get bored does it? I think last season overall MLB attendance was the 7th highest ever.

NFL is still growing.

NHL and NBA are still going strong.

This is not to say there are not issues, but I have not heard anyone, ever complain that one of them is that it is the same teams in the league year after year. People may get sick of the same teams winning all the time, but I hear the same complaints about the PL (except this season), the Spanish, Italian and German leagues and even the CL.

Basically we don't do the relegation thing, that is not how our sports are set up and we don't seem to miss it. That is really about all the explanation there is or needs to be.

 

[RoadTrip]

Yeah a few clubs change, but some of them are the same clubs coming up and down. In reality most of the teams you play in the PL and in the CL are the same clubs you see in those competitions year in and year out. Is it really that exciting to be playing Burnley (again) next season or are the games against Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Chelsea, the ones that are the big games on the schedule? I love the relegation and promotion battles, think it is great, but it is not how sports leagues are run in North America, and there really is no reason for that to change. Just like there is no reason for the PL or others to change they way they are run.

Let's think this through, MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, have millions of fans in North America and outside of North America, it really does not look like people get bored does it? I think last season overall MLB attendance was the 7th highest ever.

NFL is still growing.

NHL and NBA are still going strong.

This is not to say there are not issues, but I have not heard anyone, ever complain that one of them is that it is the same teams in the league year after year. People may get sick of the same teams winning all the time, but I hear the same complaints about the PL (except this season), the Spanish, Italian and German leagues and even the CL.

Basically we don't do the relegation thing, that is not how our sports are set up and we don't seem to miss it. That is really about all the explanation there is or needs to be.

Pretty much spot on. Some of the other elements of US sports I can understand why people might think "oh, that's a bit strange" if they are only really accustomed to UK football. Not that I agree with that, I just think they are set up different. But wondering if people get bored playing the same teams, is really bizarre I must say. In the NFL, certain teams only meet once every 4 years. Other teams may meet once ever 3 years. Not to mention, only 6 games per year out of 16 are guaranteed to be against the same opponents, and only 3 of the remaining 10 will be against teams you played the year before - and even then, one could be home and one could be away. That's half the number of games a year that are of different teams than the year before, give or take. Which is considerably more than the PL for example. So overall a bizarre point.

Add to that the fact that a team can go from shit to good so quickly (which you don't see in UK football, with the exception of Leicester in this rare mental year) because of the draft structure, and the overall greater turnover of rosters, the teams you play might be the same but in a matter of a couple of years, the are actually very different rosters.

 

[JustAFan]

Pretty much spot on. Some of the other elements of US sports I can understand why people might think "oh, that's a bit strange" if they are only really accustomed to UK football. Not that I agree with that, I just think they are set up different. But wondering if people get bored playing the same teams, is really bizarre I must say. In the NFL, certain teams only meet once every 4 years. Other teams may meet once ever 3 years. Not to mention, only 6 games per year out of 16 are guaranteed to be against the same opponents, and only 3 of the remaining 10 will be against teams you played the year before - and even then, one could be home and one could be away. That's half the number of games a year that are of different teams than the year before, give or take. Which is considerably more than the PL for example. So overall a bizarre point.

Add to that the fact that a team can go from shit to good so quickly (which you don't see in UK football, with the exception of Leicester in this rare mental year) because of the draft structure, and the overall greater turnover of rosters, the teams you play might be the same but in a matter of a couple of years, the are actually very different rosters.

yeah that's a great explanation, especially about how the NFL schedule works and that you don't play every team every season.

The level of competition is really the same regardless of whether it is the same 30 teams or like in the PL 3 of the teams change every season. The PL is still 20 clubs every season, most of whom are the same 20 clubs. The level of competition within the league rises and falls with the overall ability of the teams within the league. Which comes down to players and managers/coaches. If all the best talent gets focused on a few teams/clubs then the level of competition really does not change just because a few get relegated and promoted each season. If a number of teams/clubs can play well and have a chance to beat each other, compete for the title then the level of competition is high regardless of whether it is the same 30 or so teams each season.

 

[RedPed]

yeah that's a great explanation, especially about how the NFL schedule works and that you don't play every team every season.

The level of competition is really the same regardless of whether it is the same 30 teams or like in the PL 3 of the teams change every season. The PL is still 20 clubs every season, most of whom are the same 20 clubs. The level of competition within the league rises and falls with the overall ability of the teams within the league. Which comes down to players and managers/coaches. If all the best talent gets focused on a few teams/clubs then the level of competition really does not change just because a few get relegated and promoted each season. If a number of teams/clubs can play well and have a chance to beat each other, compete for the title then the level of competition is high regardless of whether it is the same 30 or so teams each season.

So has there ever been the equivalent of an Aberdeen, Blackburn Rovers or Leicester City in any of the 4 North American professional leagues? There are 92 teams in the football league and we could play any one of them each year...not to mention the non leagues clubs. Plus as mentioned before, the european competition and even the international competitions.

I'm just saying it's easy saying you're the best in the world when you're only one of 32 teams in the world competing in the sport. Leicester City were nearly out of business a few years ago, as was Manchester City but they progressed through the leagues and reached the top...that could potentially happen to anyone.

 

[JustAFan]

So has there ever been the equivalent of an Aberdeen, Blackburn Rovers or Leicester City in any of the 4 North American professional leagues? There are 92 teams in the football league and we could play any one of them each year...not to mention the non leagues clubs. Plus as mentioned before, the european competition and even the international competitions.

I'm just saying it's easy saying you're the best in the world when you're only one of 32 teams in the world competing in the sport. Leicester City were nearly out of business a few years ago, as was Manchester City but they progressed through the leagues and reached the top...that could potentially happen to anyone.

Yes we have underdog stories, upsets, etc etc. The Tampa Bay Bucs as an example were bankrupt, up for sale, likely to be moved out of the city, the Glazers bought them, kept them in town, they even won a Super Bowl, but now have fallen back into being a less successful team like they were before. The NY Mets were founded in 1962 as an expansion team in MLB baseball in 1969 they surprised the country winning the World Series over the heavily favored Baltimore Orioles. There are many more underdog examples. Teams rise and fall within the leagues all the time, just within the model of their being a fixed set of franchises. Some have long time runs at the top, some are flash in the pans, one season wonders. That doesn't change just because we have a different model of operation.

I already addressed the whole "world champion" thing.

There does not need to be anymore said about relegation/promotion. Our leagues work they way they are. It is not a better way to do things, just a different way of doing things. The whole promotion/relegation works fine for football but it is not better just different.

About all I can say is that if you are interested in our sports leagues, start watching and just accept that they are not modelled after the football leagues you are used to watching. Just as when I started following the PL, I had to accept that the PL is not run like the North American sports league model. Not better, just different.

At the team/club level no there are not international competitions, there have been attempts at some I think (in basketball and ice hockey), but never really took off and not just in North America. At the national level as I already said, baseball has had a few even being in the Olympics and Basketball and Ice Hockey in addition to the Olympics have international competitions.

There would be no point in a competition with American Football clubs vs Canadian Football clubs, both operate under a different set of playing rules and even the most strident fan of Canadian Football would admit it would be no contest. Plus I doubt the NFL teams would be willing to risk injury to their players for a competition like that. There really is nothing for the NFL to gain from it.

Baseball the length of the regular season does not really allow for a midseason competition against teams from leagues around the world. And the idea of say the Boston Red Sox trying to host a team from Japan or Venezuala or Cuba or Mexico at Fenway Park from November to March is a no go weather wise. If that sort of competition got started it might be interesting but would take a number of years to build up and nobody from the North American leagues nor the other baseball leagues around the world seem that interested in giving it a try.

There was an Amateur World Series from 1938 until 2011, only in the last couple of years of that did the rules change so that it was not an amateur competition. The World Baseball Classic followed that but never really caught on. There just never has been a big "Team USA" feeling when it comes to baseball. To answer the question, why? Because it just never developed that way, people follow their favorite major league baseball team and that's it.

You might find the Little League World Series interesting, a true World Series with teams from communities all over the world. It is for 11 and 12 year olds. Lot of joy watching the champions celebrate, always feel bad for the losing side regardless of their nationality.

 

[RoadTrip]

So has there ever been the equivalent of an Aberdeen, Blackburn Rovers or Leicester City in any of the 4 North American professional leagues? There are 92 teams in the football league and we could play any one of them each year...not to mention the non leagues clubs. Plus as mentioned before, the european competition and even the international competitions.

I'm just saying it's easy saying you're the best in the world when you're only one of 32 teams in the world competing in the sport. Leicester City were nearly out of business a few years ago, as was Manchester City but they progressed through the leagues and reached the top...that could potentially happen to anyone.

Just this last season, the Carolina Panthers went from being a 7-8-1 team to a 15-1 team, making the Superbowl.

And I find it ludicrous that you're suggesting that there is greater competition in football because there are more teams.

I can't speak for sports other than the NFL as that is the only american sport I watch. But I can say, from my experience of following the NFL in depth the last few years and loosely before that, and following the PL and football all my life, that it is in no way boring. The format is in no way ludicrous. And if anything, the level of competition is much more closer and stronger than in football.

You talk about the premier league and english football that loads of clubs make it competitive. Consider this:

In the existence of the PL (i.e. approx 25 years) there has only ever been 6 winners. That is since the 1992-1993 season. Of which 3 of the 6 teams account for 5/6 of these titles.

In the same period in the NFL, 14 teams have won the superbowl. That is almost 1/2 the teams that compete in the NFL.

In the same period, there have been 13 champions league winners.

 

[VP]

My gripe with American sports, and particularly the NFL, is that it often feels that the sports seem to only exist to make money. Is American Football even played recreationally? Can't imagine a casual pickup game even happening.

 

[Eboue]

There are more things in heaven and earth, VP, than dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

[RedPed]

Just this last season, the Carolina Panthers went from being a 7-8-1 team to a 15-1 team, making the Superbowl.

And I find it ludicrous that you're suggesting that there is greater competition in football because there are more teams.

I can't speak for sports other than the NFL as that is the only american sport I watch. But I can say, from my experience of following the NFL in depth the last few years and loosely before that, and following the PL and football all my life, that it is in no way boring. The format is in no way ludicrous. And if anything, the level of competition is much more closer and stronger than in football.

You talk about the premier league and english football that loads of clubs make it competitive. Consider this:

In the existence of the PL (i.e. approx 25 years) there has only ever been 6 winners. That is since the 1992-1993 season. Of which 3 of the 6 teams account for 5/6 of these titles.

In the same period in the NFL, 14 teams have won the superbowl. That is almost 1/2 the teams that compete in the NFL.

In the same period, there have been 13 champions league winners.

The 14 NFL winners are probably more to do with the schedules rather than the competitiveness because if the 32 teams don't play each other every season, a team may just get a break and a good run of games avoiding a form team till the latter stages.

I'm not really referring to the competitiveness of the sport anyway but more so the variety within it. Would the Denver Broncos, or the Golden State Warriors ever face a team of part-timers or a lower league team in a competitive match?? But then again that's all hypothetical because you don't have lower leagues anyway.

 

[RedPed]

Yes we have underdog stories, upsets, etc etc. The Tampa Bay Bucs as an example were bankrupt, up for sale, likely to be moved out of the city, the Glazers bought them, kept them in town, they even won a Super Bowl, but now have fallen back into being a less successful team like they were before. The NY Mets were founded in 1962 as an expansion team in MLB baseball in 1969 they surprised the country winning the World Series over the heavily favored Baltimore Orioles. There are many more underdog examples. Teams rise and fall within the leagues all the time, just within the model of their being a fixed set of franchises. Some have long time runs at the top, some are flash in the pans, one season wonders. That doesn't change just because we have a different model of operation.

I already addressed the whole "world champion" thing.

There does not need to be anymore said about relegation/promotion. Our leagues work they way they are. It is not a better way to do things, just a different way of doing things. The whole promotion/relegation works fine for football but it is not better just different.

About all I can say is that if you are interested in our sports leagues, start watching and just accept that they are not modelled after the football leagues you are used to watching. Just as when I started following the PL, I had to accept that the PL is not run like the North American sports league model. Not better, just different.

At the team/club level no there are not international competitions, there have been attempts at some I think (in basketball and ice hockey), but never really took off and not just in North America. At the national level as I already said, baseball has had a few even being in the Olympics and Basketball and Ice Hockey in addition to the Olympics have international competitions.

There would be no point in a competition with American Football clubs vs Canadian Football clubs, both operate under a different set of playing rules and even the most strident fan of Canadian Football would admit it would be no contest. Plus I doubt the NFL teams would be willing to risk injury to their players for a competition like that. There really is nothing for the NFL to gain from it.

Baseball the length of the regular season does not really allow for a midseason competition against teams from leagues around the world. And the idea of say the Boston Red Sox trying to host a team from Japan or Venezuala or Cuba or Mexico at Fenway Park from November to March is a no go weather wise. If that sort of competition got started it might be interesting but would take a number of years to build up and nobody from the North American leagues nor the other baseball leagues around the world seem that interested in giving it a try.

There was an Amateur World Series from 1938 until 2011, only in the last couple of years of that did the rules change so that it was not an amateur competition. The World Baseball Classic followed that but never really caught on. There just never has been a big "Team USA" feeling when it comes to baseball. To answer the question, why? Because it just never developed that way, people follow their favorite major league baseball team and that's it.

You might find the Little League World Series interesting, a true World Series with teams from communities all over the world. It is for 11 and 12 year olds. Lot of joy watching the champions celebrate, always feel bad for the losing side regardless of their nationality.

Just because it works, it doesn't mean it can't be improved?

Yeah the football league worked just fine up until the early 90s but then they changed it and the Premier League was born...we haven't looked back since!

The European Cup was a great competition but it was massively overhauled and now we have the Champions League. Now every team wants to play in it.

Now they're mooting the idea of a European Super league, who knows where that will go...things change all the time.

Americans seem to be very defensive about their sports.

 

[JustAFan]

My gripe with American sports, and particularly the NFL, is that it often feels that the sports seem to only exist to make money. Is American Football even played recreationally? Can't imagine a casual pickup game even happening.

All the time, one of the easier sports to play with some friends all you need is a ball and a bit of space (not even that much). You don't need all that gear the pro's wear. You can play tackle or two hand touch (if you have the ball and an opponent gets two hands on you, you are down. there is also flag football, where you stick a small piece of cloth in your belt or hanging out the back of your shorts/jeans and you are considered tackled when someone grabs the flag from you.

Americans seem to be very defensive about their sports.

As can Europeans or Asians or South Americans. All depends on how things are approached. If an American comes onto this forum and starts with the "Why don't you do things like we do it in the States" well they would probably find the conversation quite different from if they just asked a few questions about how things works.

Think of how a European might react to the once typical American comment "Oh soccer is soooo boring." or "Don't you get bored with all the 0-0 or 1-0 games?" or "Isn't it boring not having some exciting playoffs at the end of your regular season, like we do it the States?"

It's all in how things are approached.