The same four points as in the referendum. It's absolutely disgusting that Corbyn is not even allowed to go to the ballot in an election for the public to decide if they want to elect him or not. His face clearly doesn't fit with the cliques inside Labour and it's clear this coup was planned for some time.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
- Thread starter unchanged_lineup
- Start date
You wouldn't be wrong. 2 weeks ago:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...o-topple-jeremy-corbyn-in-24-hour-blitz-afte/
Ok well we can trade anecdotes all we like but the Labour votes that voted Remain were largely metropolitan. They were always going to vote Remain. The issue was with the working class for Labour - an element apparently Corbyn should have been effective with but quite clearly wasn't.
If you think he was convincing then of course that's fair enough - but the data I've seen show that Labour voters were often confused about the official party policy on the issue.
And on a pure random poll of people I know who voted Labour in the GE and voted Remain - and many of those quite liked the Corbyn leadership challenge - think he is going to a) win over any central voters who might defect from the Conservatives on this issue and b) actually control and lead his party.
Not to mention that the areas where Labour failed to get their voters to remain (often in the north) had already been showing an increasing Euroscepticism with the rise in UKIP support in the north during 2015.
Ok well if you believe that article his team thought they would be ok which doesn't help with the notion he simply isn't agile or flexible enough to lead a party.
Yes I'm not a fan of trading random anecdotes, which is why I gave you the statistic that Corbyn delivered 2/3rds of the Labour vote. What would be the acceptable benchmark for him, when the Lib Dem party which are much more united on the topic only managed to do slightly better?
So you pooh-pooh that statistic and then go back to trading an anecdote of your random poll? Classic!
But no it's Corbyn's fault.
Remember that "I missed my bus. Corbyn must resign!" meme? It's too fecking close to the truth to be funny any more.
Fair point re anecdotes but I was trying to make a different point. I have nothing against Corbyn and indeed supported his leadership campaign. But since he has become leader I haven't seen him push himself from left wing purist to an effective leader.
You have to work with rivals and elements you don't like - he made his best friend and fellow left wing purist McDonnell Chancellor who then confirmed the image of die hard reds by quoting effing Chairman Mao.
What you are missing in my opinion is the risk that the people who voted Remain and Labour (like myself) won't vote Labour again if they aren't convinced by his committment to the EU. Like it or not this has become a critical issue and it's one on which historically he has been lukewarm.
And on top of all that as I say pre-planned or not, these are resignations on a scale we've almost never seen before and people are not idiots. These are their careers so if they genuinely thought there was a chance of Corbyn winning or him changing his approach they would presumably (some of them) heed this. But they're not.
I'm certainly not blaming Corbyn for the Leave victory - I don't think he did a great job of persuading people to vote Remain but that's not the same. What I am saying is I don't believe he is capable of wining a GE.
Alan Johnson claiming Corbyn's office sabotaged the campaign.
I don't care about personalities but Corbyn has been anti EU since the 70s. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that people in his office actually did this.
I don't care about personalities but Corbyn has been anti EU since the 70s. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that people in his office actually did this.
I'm seeing a lot saying this that no longer support him.
Wonder if Corbyn's confidence about support from the membership is based on polling they've done privately or not.
That is an amazing statistic and should change the minds of the people here (if not the PLP). Source?
Should this thread be renamed: 'Corbynexit'?
Why is it an amazing statistic? Genghis Khan could have been leader of the Labour party and I would have voted Remain.
Or, indeed, Shadow Cabinexit?
Maybe you would have; that doesn't mean it'd have been the case for others. The problem here is that while people are saying Corbyn should resign after his supposed failure during the EU referendum...there hasn't really been any, unless you think Sturgeon should resign from the SNP as well. Which would clearly be fecking madness.
There's plenty of reasons for Corbyn to go, but this really isn't one of them, and anyone thinking that Dan Jarvis, Chuka Ummuna, or Tony Blairiband would've reaped better results is probably just looking for a way to get Corbyn out. No Remain party was able to secure all of their voters to go that way, including the Lib Dems and SNP.
Anyone seen thinks Angela Eagle looks like Boris in drag?
Keir Starmer's gone now as well. He's not your everyday plotter, by any stretch.
And again it isn't the main reason I think he should go.
I don't think he was very effective but that is an opinion and until we have more data we will have to agree to disagree.
What I do think is that a) he clearly has no control over his party and surely we can now accept the resignations have gone beyond a small cabal of Blairites and b) he isn't the man to lead Labour in an election which will be dominated by the EU
Also I think people are underestimating the risk if he stays and fights in an election dominated by this issue.
And I don't see - apart from his good but relatively unpressurised performances in the leadership challenge - what he has done to command such loyalty/support. Apart from hate Blair.
Because based on the geographic spread of votes I assumed it was overwhelmingly Labour voters that had voted leave, and were about to become UKIP voters in a snap election. This data indicates that if the Cons and UKIP cannot unite, a centre-left (Libs + Lab supported by SNP) coalition would win a FPTP election (not necessarily voteshare but seats)
Not if metropolitan Labour voters are unsure of the party's commitment to the EU. This is the point I am making. Right now - Labour isn't necessarily seen as an alternative.
It was overwhelmingly Labour voters in the metropolitan areas.
Guardian: Jeremy Corbyn plans to address a rally of grassroots supporters at the gates of parliament tonight after facing down his critics within the Parliamentary Labour party.
Labour’s leader will at first attend a crucial meeting of MPs where he is expected to face calls for his resignation including former members of his shadow cabinet.
But after calling for party unity, he plans to address a Momentum rally on Parliament Square, 20 yards from the parliamentary estate, sources said.
He may well be flanked at the rally by up to 20 MPs, who among those who remain loyal to Labour’s leader.
The address will offer a stark reminder to MPs that Corbyn’s support remains outside the Parliamentary party which has always been hostile towards him.
A source close to his office confirmed that he would address the rally following the PLP meeting. Corbyn also thanked Diane Abbott for the casserole.
Labour’s leader will at first attend a crucial meeting of MPs where he is expected to face calls for his resignation including former members of his shadow cabinet.
But after calling for party unity, he plans to address a Momentum rally on Parliament Square, 20 yards from the parliamentary estate, sources said.
He may well be flanked at the rally by up to 20 MPs, who among those who remain loyal to Labour’s leader.
The address will offer a stark reminder to MPs that Corbyn’s support remains outside the Parliamentary party which has always been hostile towards him.
A source close to his office confirmed that he would address the rally following the PLP meeting. Corbyn also thanked Diane Abbott for the casserole.
It's a manufactured crisis in the party which has now become very real. A reckless gamble from the MPs who started it. David Cameron would be impressed.
This is from Lord Ashcroft Polls, I've seen other sources with similar numbers:
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
For any Labour voters here (either lapsed on current) that do not think Corbyn should continue in his post, you can send a letter off to your MP/chair of the PLP via this - https://www.savinglabour.com/
Momentum will be doing exactly the same thing, so it's important to have your voice be heard equally.
Momentum will be doing exactly the same thing, so it's important to have your voice be heard equally.
@Shamwow
Kind of ironic that Corbyn and the people that (genuinely) share his politics make up the 21%.
Perhaps he could have tried reaching out to those old socialist thinkers to change their mind?
Kind of ironic that Corbyn and the people that (genuinely) share his politics make up the 21%.
Perhaps he could have tried reaching out to those old socialist thinkers to change their mind?
The Labour 'broad church' is broke, ain't it?
That graphic overlooks the UKIP voters that were traditionally Labour as well.
Not an insignificant number either.
I take it you are buying into the story that he voted Leave then?
Looks like personal grievances and the lust for power is more important than old hokey things like loyalty and duty. The SavingLabour website may as well be called MakeLabourMoreLikeTheTories.
I've already filled it in 12,000 times with fake names from the Vatican using a bot.
I'll credit Corbyn with being an honest man. Unless he confirms in public that he voted remain then I will take that as admission by omission that he voted leave. I don't believe he would flat out lie to the electorate.
Lab-LibDem-Green-SNP-PC pro-EU anti-austerity coalition it is then. Corbyn must resign.
Which amounted to how many?
It's not like it's Corbyns fault they went to UKIP either. They were lost by the people currently trying to boot him out. They will blame him for not getting those voters back, but it's harder to regain trust than it is to get it for the first time.
Nice mental gymnastics there.
Not really. He can discredit the coup by admitting that he voted remain. Nothing to lose, everything to gain. I bet he won't though.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Hmm.
You know as well as I do that he doesn't like giving stupid questions like that the time of day. He nearly punched that bloke the other day who kept asking if he wants to be Prime Minister. He hasn't been asked publicly as far as I'm aware anyway. Just Chris Bryant being a prick.
What is and will continue to happen that Corbyn will get bombarded with a barrage of accusations like this so he can either wear himself down answering them all, or ignore them and let people speculate. It's fecking disgraceful from those doing it, and I'm surprised at people buying into it.
I would call that mental gymnastics.