Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

[Scrumpet]

No real light at the end of the tunnel, is there? Either Corbyn trundles on with increasingly fewer friends in his own party, clutching on to the perceived idealogical high ground and leading Labour into irrelevance after the next GE, or he gets ousted and the party sells its soul chasing after would-be UKIP voters, alienating its own members and probably still delivering disastrous results at the next GE.

Are we heading towards some horrific reality where the Tories are the further left of the country's two biggest parties?

Have people forgiven the Lib Dems yet for whatever it was they were supposed to have done?

 

[Sweet Square]

Whether or not this is a pre-planned coup, do people really think Corbyn is electable? Part of the reason this whole cluster feck has happened is because Labour has stopped being an effective opposition party.

http://linkis.com/independent.co.uk/EbSPT

 

[Adisa]

No real light at the end of the tunnel, is there? Either Corbyn trundles on with increasingly fewer friends in his own party, clutching on to the perceived idealogical high ground and leading Labour into irrelevance after the next GE, or he gets ousted and the party sells its soul chasing after would-be UKIP voters, alienating its own members and probably still delivering disastrous results at the next GE.

Are we heading towards some horrific reality where the Tories are the further left of the country's two biggest parties?

Have people forgiven the Lib Dems yet for whatever it was they were supposed to have done?

If Lib Dems get their act together along with the greens, they will do really well.

 

[Smores]

I don't know why he's being stubborn. Even if Labour were smashed to pieces at the next election, this guy would not resign. What is his endgame?

Why would he stand aside when he is the one with the mandate? If this branch of the PLP want to take over they can win a leadership challenge or feck off and start there own party it's as simple as that

 

[Ubik]

Defence questions in the Commons later today, the newly appointed shadow defence secretary may not be able to make it back from Glastonbury in time.

 

[Adisa]

Defence questions in the Commons later today, the newly appointed shadow defence secretary may not be able to make it back from Glastonbury in time.

 

[Marching]

Corbyn shouldn't even be on the new leadership ballot. There's a reason you need a minimum number of MPs to nominate you... because you can't be leader unless you can form a shadow cabinet.

Corbyn is done. It's ludicrous he won't just resign and be done with it so labour can move forward.

This just sums up the arrogant arsehole. Electing him was always going to end in tears.

 

[Donkey's Ears]

There's as much evidence that Labour is electable under him than there is in any other path right now.

The difference is Corbyn is taking his mandate from Labour members where as those resigning are seemingly taking there's from people on the door step who have grown disgruntled with Labour. the PLP blame that on Corbyn but it's quite clear Labour has simply lost these people to UKIP and the Tory right.

I worry very much that they're cutting off those who still support Labour with this move and could destroy the party as the Lib Dems did. The only way this will work is collecting voters who are so throughly opposed to the tories because of Brexit and the lies that they'll vote Labour under a moderate leader.

What? Are you serious?

Taking a mandate from Labour members means very little as they are a tiny proportion of the population who vote Labour. Second, you're assuming he would win another mandate from them which may or may not be true once they see he exercises zero control over his actual party.

Under Blair, Labour won three elections in a row. Under Foot and Kinnock who were both more charismatic leaders than Corbyn they failed to do so even when facing some of the most unpopular governments in history.

History ain't on his side, he has poor relations with the media, zero support from his own MPs and you can tell what the Conservatives think of him by the eagerness with which they agree a quick GE is required.

 

[Marching]

Defence questions in the Commons later today, the newly appointed shadow defence secretary may not be able to make it back from Glastonbury in time.

 

[Red Ryan]

Defence questions in the Commons later today, the newly appointed shadow defence secretary may not be able to make it back from Glastonbury in time.

To be fair the new Shadow Defence Secretary probably didn't expect the previous Shadow Defence Secretary to take part in an orchestrated campaign to humiliate and undermine the current leader so the right wing elements could seize control of the party when they were booking their holidays.

 

[Donkey's Ears]

http://linkis.com/independent.co.uk/EbSPT

He's one point up on the Tories when they have just plunged this country into dissarray and have no leader? And you think that means he is electable?

 

[Fearless]

I don't know why he's being stubborn. Even if Labour were smashed to pieces at the next election, this guy would not resign. What is his endgame?

It's all here:

A VICTORY FOR POPULAR SOVEREIGNTY - a defeat for the EU-IMF-NATO axis

Rest assured, secret Brexiter Corbyn would be the most vocal of campaigners if this referendum was about the third world, Britain abandoning nukes or bombing Israel.

 

[Adisa]

Angela eagle in tears speaking on wato

 

[Smores]

What? Are you serious?

Taking a mandate from Labour members means very little as they are a tiny proportion of the population who vote Labour. Second, you're assuming he would win another mandate from them which may or may not be true once they see he exercises zero control over his actual party.

Under Blair, Labour won three elections in a row. Under Foot and Kinnock who were both more charismatic leaders than Corbyn they failed to do so even when facing some of the most unpopular governments in history.

History ain't on his side, he has poor relations with the media, zero support from his own MPs and you can tell what the Conservatives think of him by the eagerness with which they agree a quick GE is required.

It means more than the anecdotal mandate these rebels claim to have from voices on thier doorstep. These members you're dismissing are the grass roots who you need for an election campaign

Exactly what do you have to back up a claim that back to Blair is what the country wants? Especially considering when people have just voted out largely because of politicians like Blair who have failed them and as they see it ruined the country with uncontrolled immigration experiments.

I won't automatically be voting Corbyn but some of you need to get your head out of the sand if you think it's just a matter of getting rid of him and everything will be fine. No one will hate Labour anymore.

 

[Smores]

He's one point up on the Tories when they have just plunged this country into dissarray and have no leader? And you think that means he is electable?

That was from March.

 

[Spark]

What? Are you serious?

Taking a mandate from Labour members means very little as they are a tiny proportion of the population who vote Labour. Second, you're assuming he would win another mandate from them which may or may not be true once they see he exercises zero control over his actual party.

Under Blair, Labour won three elections in a row. Under Foot and Kinnock who were both more charismatic leaders than Corbyn they failed to do so even when facing some of the most unpopular governments in history.

History ain't on his side, he has poor relations with the media, zero support from his own MPs and you can tell what the Conservatives think of him by the eagerness with which they agree a quick GE is required.

Spot on. For the sake of this country, he needs to do the honourable thing and leave. Everyone screaming that this is a coup against the labour members, these are the same labour members who only became members by paying £3 to vote him in in the first place.

Corbyn, like Farage, would fair much better under proportional representation. However, ironically considering we've just left the "undemocratic" EU, our government is not democratically elected. As such we need an opposition capable of winning first past the post and Corbyn simply does not play the correct system and is an idealist.

 

[Smores]

Spot on. For the sake of this country, he needs to do the honourable thing and leave. Everyone screaming that this is a coup against the labour members, these are the same labour members who only became members by paying £3 to vote him in in the first place.

He'd have won in the first round even without the new affiliate members who paid the 3 pound to join.

 

[Ubik]

To be fair the new Shadow Defence Secretary probably didn't expect the previous Shadow Defence Secretary to take part in an orchestrated campaign to humiliate and undermine the current leader so the right wing elements could seize control of the party when they were booking their holidays.

The previous shadow defence secretary was Emily Thornberry, she hasn't resigned, she got moved.

If you think the likes of Nia Griffith, Lisa Nandy, Owen Smith, Kate Green and Angela Eagle are "right wing elements", you clearly play no actual attention to the Labour party.

 

[Donkey's Ears]

That was from March.

Ok fair enough but its clear that the Euro debate was weighing heavily on that poll.

 

[Donkey's Ears]

It means more than the anecdotal mandate these rebels claim to have from voices on thier doorstep. These members you're dismissing are the grass roots who you need for an election campaign

Exactly what do you have to back up a claim that back to Blair is what the country wants? Especially considering when people have just voted out largely because of politicians like Blair who have failed them and as they see it ruined the country with uncontrolled immigration experiments.

I won't automatically be voting Corbyn but some of you need to get your head out of the sand if you think it's just a matter of getting rid of him and everything will be fine. No one will hate Labour anymore.

I absolutely don't think everything will just be ok getting rid of him. But I also think that getting rid of him is a pre-requisite to trying to do something to get an effective opposition.

I am a Labour voter and I actually initially welcomed the freshness that he seemed to bring. But he hasn't managed to blend his personality with the elements he needs to and I certainly haven't been impressed by his performance at all. He and John M have been crass in some of the PMQs and let so many opportunities go.

And quite frankly if this has been pre-planned it's pretty incompetent that apparently he only did anything about it after reading an article in the Observer. Pre-planned or not, he is not the one setting the agenda which is pretty poor if you recognise that being a politician requires those kind of skills as well banging on about your pure socialist background.

 

[Smores]

Ok fair enough but its clear that the Euro debate was weighing heavily on that poll.

And the euro debate isn't going to continue to weigh heavily against the tories? That's their entire reasoning for doing this isn't it?

So basically (if you take the polls as true) he's already shown he stands a chance under these conditions. This a risky move by the party which ever way you paint it, it's not a situation of we can't win so we need to do something.

As I've said I'm not blind to Corbyn's mistakes and I've been reviewing my intentions too but this is just dissapointng from the PLP. If the Lib Dems sort themselves out there's a good chance they'd get my vote.

 

[Ubik]

London Young Labour have called on him to resign. Not sure what their actual makeup is, entirely possible it's full of Liz Kendall supporters, but given young people and Londoners were a big part of his mandate, may indicate a turning against him.

 

[Honest John]

What? Are you serious?

Taking a mandate from Labour members means very little as they are a tiny proportion of the population who vote Labour. Second, you're assuming he would win another mandate from them which may or may not be true once they see he exercises zero control over his actual party.

Under Blair, Labour won three elections in a row. Under Foot and Kinnock who were both more charismatic leaders than Corbyn they failed to do so even when facing some of the most unpopular governments in history.

History ain't on his side, he has poor relations with the media, zero support from his own MPs and you can tell what the Conservatives think of him by the eagerness with which they agree a quick GE is required.

Corbyn will probably vote against himself in a GE

 

[Red Ryan]

So the way for Labour to win the next election is go against the wishes of their membership who some here are sneeringly calling Three Pounders and elect more of the same that saw them obliterated by one of the least popular governments in history at the last election. It was pretty obvious that the right wing self serving elements in the party were put out by his appointment, trying everything in their power to get one of their own in, regardless of the fact that's getting further and further away from what the party is supposed to stand for. The message here is "we want power at any cost and don't care about your ideology Jeremy".

 

[Shamwow]

Spot on. For the sake of this country, he needs to do the honourable thing and leave. Everyone screaming that this is a coup against the labour members, these are the same labour members who only became members by paying £3 to vote him in in the first place.

Corbyn, like Farage, would fair much better under proportional representation. However, ironically considering we've just left the "undemocratic" EU, our government is not democratically elected. As such we need an opposition capable of winning first past the post and Corbyn simply does not play the correct system and is an idealist.

He won with "proper" none-£3 members as well. The whole he only won because of the fake £3 members thing is another falsehood made up by his rivals. All they can do is make stuff up and tell people that he's not electable. It shouldn't be tolerated any more.

 

[Shamwow]

The centre of politics is incredibly toxic at the moment. All it can do is sneer at those it disagrees with and disenfranchise them further. Any surprise when people it calls stupid are being driven to vote for choices it calls stupid?

 

[Ubik]

The centre of politics is incredibly toxic at the moment. All it can do is sneer at those it disagrees with and disenfranchise them further. Any surprise when people it calls stupid are being driven to vote for choices it calls stupid?

This is a problem for politics generally. When those focus groups of ex-Labour voters were published that said Corbyn was crap, they were called morons by many on here.

 

[M18CTID]

So the way for Labour to win the next election is go against the wishes of their membership who some here are sneeringly calling Three Pounders and elect more of the same that saw them obliterated by one of the least popular governments in history at the last election. It was pretty obvious that the right wing self serving elements in the party were put out by his appointment, trying everything in their power to get one of their own in, regardless of the fact that's getting further and further away from what the party is supposed to stand for. The message here is "we want power at any cost and don't care about your ideology Jeremy".

The trouble is, and this is just my own opinion of course, the majority of the people in this country have little appetite for lurching too far to the left or right in this country these days (UKIP for me will cease to be of much relevance now we've voted to come out of the EU). Most are centre-left, centre, or centre-right in their outlook and for Labour to become re-electable again they need to reclaim that middle ground that they won over so emphatically in 1997. That doesn't necessarily mean a return to the New Labour days but Old Labour is pretty much dead in the water in terms of becoming electable. A strong leader that can both appeal to the more left-wing elements of the party as well as those centrist elements minus the Blairite bullshit and they could quite conceivably win the next election, particularly if the Conservatives elect someone who is too right-wing.

I think both parties are in turmoil at the moment and the public are generally pissed off with them both. For me, this is an unexpected opportunity for Labour to reconnect with many of their disaffected voters.

 

[Shamwow]

This is a problem for politics generally. When those focus groups of ex-Labour voters were published that said Corbyn was crap, they were called morons by many on here.

I can handle when it's happening online (although I doubt that it was "many" as you said).

That's easy enough to ignore. But this is MPs doing it, and doing it repeatedly, and not learning every time it fails and hurts the country.

 

[berbatrick]

This is a problem for politics generally. When those focus groups of ex-Labour voters were published that said Corbyn was crap, they were called morons by many on here.

I think it's a problem that stems from the media. And you're right in that context, a leftist can never win the media, so Labour must elect centrists. The problem with centrists is the long-term contradictions that will arise (inequality and immigration, for example), but if the media is managed correctly those only take an election cycle or 2 to break.

 

[SteveJ]

Luciana Berger resigns as shadow cabinet minister for mental health.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I think it's a problem that stems from the media. And you're right in that context, a leftist can never win the media, so Labour must elect centrists. The problem with centrists is the long-term contradictions that will arise (inequality and immigration, for example), but if the media is managed correctly those only take an election cycle or 2 to break.

You going to take down News Corp for us then?

 

[berbatrick]

You going to take down News Corp for us then?

I'm advocating pandering to them.

 

[Shamwow]

John Healey giving away that this is a stitch up. Feel sorry for some of the MPs caught up in this.:

"Mr Healey tells the BBC he does not "share the criticism" of Mr Corbyn's conduct of the referendum campaign, but believes a Labour leader has to "hold the party together" in the face of the Brexit fallout and a likely general election. "We need a new mandate" for a leader, Mr Healey argues."

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I'm advocating pandering to them.

The media dictates what a great deal of what people think unfortunately. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[Donkey's Ears]

The trouble is, and this is just my own opinion of course, the majority of the people in this country have little appetite for lurching too far to the left or right in this country these days (UKIP for me will cease to be of much relevance now we've voted to come out of the EU). Most are centre-left, centre, or centre-right in their outlook and for Labour to become re-electable again they need to reclaim that middle ground that they won over so emphatically in 1997. That doesn't necessarily mean a return to the New Labour days but Old Labour is pretty much dead in the water in terms of becoming electable. A strong leader that can both appeal to the more left-wing elements of the party as well as those centrist elements minus the Blairite bullshit and they could quite conceivably win the next election, particularly if the Conservatives elect someone who is too right-wing.

I think both parties are in turmoil at the moment and the public are generally pissed off with them both. For me, this is an unexpected opportunity for Labour to reconnect with many of their disaffected voters.

This is what I'm getting at. I don't have an issue with Corbyn for any other reason than he hasn't showed any sign that he is capable of winning that middle ground.

 

[SteveJ]

Mozzarella Balsamic-Vinegar resigns as Minister for Monkeys on Tricycles.

 

[Donkey's Ears]

And the euro debate isn't going to continue to weigh heavily against the tories? That's their entire reasoning for doing this isn't it?

So basically (if you take the polls as true) he's already shown he stands a chance under these conditions. This a risky move by the party which ever way you paint it, it's not a situation of we can't win so we need to do something.

As I've said I'm not blind to Corbyn's mistakes and I've been reviewing my intentions too but this is just dissapointng from the PLP. If the Lib Dems sort themselves out there's a good chance they'd get my vote.

Yes but now he is going (and rightly so) to get some of the blame himself for the Leave vote. His performance was ineffectual in the extreme.

Labour's ability to leverage the EU as a voting issue will be hugely compromised by having Corbyn as their leader. Someone who is lukewarm on the subject and has consistently been so.

 

[Donkey's Ears]

And the euro debate isn't going to continue to weigh heavily against the tories? That's their entire reasoning for doing this isn't it?

So basically (if you take the polls as true) he's already shown he stands a chance under these conditions. This a risky move by the party which ever way you paint it, it's not a situation of we can't win so we need to do something.

As I've said I'm not blind to Corbyn's mistakes and I've been reviewing my intentions too but this is just dissapointng from the PLP. If the Lib Dems sort themselves out there's a good chance they'd get my vote.

And a poll from Saturday now has the Conservatives four points up. This is before any Corbyn coup news began to emerge.

 

[Shamwow]

Yes but now he is going (and rightly so) to get some of the blame himself for the Leave vote. His performance was ineffectual in the extreme.

Labour's ability to leverage the EU as a voting issue will be hugely compromised by having Corbyn as their leader. Someone who is lukewarm on the subject and has consistently been so.

His critics keep saying it was ineffectual. Other people I've spoken to who don't have such an obvious agenda say he was the most convincing person they heard on the subject.

All we really have to go off is the apparent fact that 2/3rds of the Labour voters voted for Remain, about the same as the SNP and Lib Dems who had a much easier job of it. And much more than the Cameron managed. So how much did he really fail?