Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

[Adisa]

Never would I have imagined a major democratic party going to such lengths to undermine the wishes of their members. Why not just skip the maneuvering and just call us cnuts who shouldn't vote?

If Corbyn doesn't win Id honestly rather vote Tory the next election, at least they don't hide the fact they're a bunch of cnuts and I honestly consider Theresa May far more trustworthy than any of the rats from the Blairite element of the PLP.

I felt dirty even saying that but there you go.

If Corbyn doesn't win it will be because he didn't get enough support from members.
I don't understand how you can vote for what will probably be the most right wing government in decades because you didn't get Corbyn. That's like from in extreme to another. There are other left leaning parties.

 

[Adisa]

He's right, of course, but there's a time and a place. This isn't the sort of thing to be saying in light of the accusations of MPs being threatened by Momentum. It builds a siege mentality, which, whilst good for getting elected, is incredibly bad if your stated goal is to try and bring the party together.

The split is inevitable now, regardless of who wins whatever election. Perhaps everyone will be better off for it in the long run.

I don't think McDonnell gives a feck about winning elections and that's my problem with Labour at the moment.
It doesn't do me any good supporting a party who just want to protest. Labour don't have any prospect of influencing policy. And at a time where we are going to get the most right wing government in decades, we need a credible opposition.

 

[Jippy]

Social and economic issues are pretty intertwined though.

In the 70s a union's only recourse to injustice was often to strike, whereas now it is very much to use the law.
Unfair dismissal, discrimination by sex, colour, race, age, etc.
Through the 70s, 80s, 90s, millions more ordinary workers got access to sick pay, pensions, and fully-paid holidays that they didn't have before.
If we do go back to the bad old days @Marching recalls, it will be because of the reversal of these things, and of course, with zero hours contracts, reversal has begun with a vengeance.

Be nice if May really is 'one-nation' and addresses this, who knows?

Never would I have imagined a major democratic party going to such lengths to undermine the wishes of their members. Why not just skip the maneuvering and just call us cnuts who shouldn't vote?

If Corbyn doesn't win Id honestly rather vote Tory the next election, at least they don't hide the fact they're a bunch of cnuts and I honestly consider Theresa May far more trustworthy than any of the rats from the Blairite element of the PLP.

I felt dirty even saying that but there you go.

May the merciful!

 

[Ubik]

I don't think McDonnell gives a feck about winning elections and that's my problem with Labour at the moment.
It doesn't do me any good supporting a party who just want to protest. Labour don't have any prospect of influencing policy. And at a time where we are going to get the most important isn't wing government in decades, we need a credible opposition.

Labour whips used to differentiate Corbyn and McDonnell by saying Corbyn was a lost cause, McDonnell's a shit. Is about right.

 

[Kaos]

If Corbyn doesn't win it will be because he didn't get enough support from members.
I don't understand how you can vote for what will probably be the most right wing government in decades because you didn't get Corbyn. That's like from in extreme to another. There are other left leaning parties.

With these bizarre new voting rules it's possible thousands of Corbyn supporters may be prevented from voting.

I should probably add I'd never actually go ahead and vote Tory, only that I'd rather them than the Blairite cronies.

Chances are I'll probably just vote fringe or not even bother at all, I've become seriously disillusioned with democracy recently

 

[Mozza]

Embarrassing that Corbyn is alienating himself from the Labour Party...his MP's hate him and refuse to form his shadow cabinet and now he can only get 17 votes from the NEC. Complete joke. Long may he run.

They weren't voting for him, they were voting on a rule which could be interpreted either way. You'd have called it a farce no matter the result

 

[Penna]

Where I live, we've never been close to having a Labour MP and in more recent years, the seat has gone backwards and forwards between the Tories and the Lib Dems. I tactically voted Lib Dem at the last election (as I usually do, despite being a Labour supporter) and was pleased that the sitting MP held the seat. I can see the Lib Dems picking up a lot more votes at the next election, it'll be interesting.

 

[Drifter]

Owen Smith intends to run in contest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36780715

 

[sun_tzu]

So the new members can't vote...
Have had to be a member for six months to be eligible... That seems sensible to be honest but I imagine the corbynistas will be up in arms
Personally I might vote for Corbyn anyway as I think a split in the party or a total wipeout in an election might be the only way forward and he pretty much guarantees one or the other

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Depends how you're looking at it I suppose. The minimum wage is barely a century old and it's slowly heading towards being on par with the living wage. Whereas people have been gay for millennia and it's only in the last couple of decades that they started reaching social and legal parity. The tax system at least pretends to be progressive. There is a social safety net which didn't exist for most of human history. Corporations are king at the moment, but kings don't last.

Minimum wages and welfare are just tinkering round the edges of a capitalist system. Left wing economics is based on collective ownership.

 

[ThierryHenry]

You're in Stella's constituency aren't you? Apparently a lot of Momentum folk there!

Yup, loads I think. Momentum called me just after 7 yesterday to see if they can "count on my support". They seem incredibly organised, tbf.

It might. I used to go to many when I was young, all "points of order" in smoke-filled rooms. I also set up a local branch of the Young Socialists, but we were infiltrated (and ultimately taken over) by Militant Tendency - that was about the most exciting thing that happened.

 

[Shamwow]

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Sneaky fecker.

 

[Smores]

Owen Smith says hes going to fight Jeremy on the issues. What madness is this!

 

[Shamwow]

Owen Smith says hes going to fight Jeremy on the issues. What madness is this!

He can get fecked I'd take Eagle over him.

 

[Smores]

He can get fecked I'd take Eagle over him.

What in particular dont you like?

Been trying to research his background and i get the impression he's moved around factions and may be a bit of a great pretender.

 

[Shamwow]

What in particular dont you like?

Been trying to research his background and i get the impression he's moved around factions and may be a bit of a great pretender.

Yeah he's a snake.

 

[DenisIrwin]

The Bristol West constituency bucked the trend in the last GE with a massive swing to Labour. Now our MP is one of those that resigned and turned against the democratically elected leader. The local party has had to try to find a much bigger venue for its upcoming AGM. I'm betting our candidate and MP will be deselected. Watch this space! I sincerely hope it's a trend that will be followed around the country, with a whole new round of by-elections.

 

[Adebesi]

I thought the whole point was to avoid splitting the moderate vote if he could stand? Surprised if another candidate enters the race, unless Eagle then drops out.

 

[Smores]

I thought the whole point was to avoid splitting the moderate vote if he could stand? Surprised if another candidate enters the race, unless Eagle then drops out.

You're assuming the rest of the party speaks with a united voice but thats just not the case. Some might like to accuse momentum of being a party within a party because its a nice soundbite but theres always been that within Labour.

 

[Dobba]

Sneaky fecker.

fecking hell John Mann turned the opportunity down to make it all about himself? Was he ill?

 

[Kaos]

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Sneaky fecker.

SIX months! And I thought Hillary Benn going around collecting signatures during the EU campaign was bad enough.

Talk about giving the leader a chance

 

[Adebesi]

You're assuming the rest of the party speaks with a united voice but thats just not the case. Some might like to accuse momentum of being a party within a party because its a nice soundbite but theres always been that within Labour.

Yeah I guess you're right. I just thought with Labour facing an existential crisis the party would be able to unite against a single threat. If they can't even do that the party probably deserves what's coming.

 

[Kaos]

Oh and thank you Owen Smith, keep em coming so we can split that Red Tory vote

 

[Dobba]

John McDonnell swearing is getting more of a reaction out of the Blairite MPs than the fecking Chilcot report

Angela Eagle claiming to have leadership qualities on Sky News while refusing to state her opinion on any of the interviewers questions.

 

[Kaos]

John McDonnell swearing is getting more of a reaction out of the Blairite MPs than the fecking Chilcot report

No surprises there, Turkeys for Christmas and all that.

They probably think Corbyn's dress sense is more criminal than a million dead

 

[Smores]

John McDonnell swearing is getting more of a reaction out of the Blairite MPs than the fecking Chilcot report

Angela Eagle claiming to have leadership qualities on Sky News while refusing to state her opinion on any of the interviewers questions.

Nah they just know how to make a good headline from a situation.

Can we just purge Alistair Campbell from the party? I will vote for anyone who campaigns for that even if its Kendal.

 

[Kaos]

Can we just purge Alistair Campbell from the party? I will vote for anyone who campaigns for that even if its Kendal.

Hear hear, stick that cretin on a rocket aimed towards the moon and that leader has my vote, even if they're the red Tory drone type. Bonus points if Blair is on it with him.

 

[ThierryHenry]

If Owen Smith appeared to be genuine, on the left side of the Party, a competent and engaging speaker, and more electable than Dear Jeremy, would any of the Corbynites on here vote for him, as a move to heal the party?

 

[Kaos]

If Owen Smith appeared to be genuine, on the left side of the Party, a competent and engaging speaker, and more electable than Dear Jeremy, would any of the Corbynites on here vote for him, as a move to heal the party?

Too early to say.

If he beat Jeremy fairly in a leadership contest, actually challenges the Tories on austerity, civil rights and democracy AND distancing himself from the Mandelson/Campbell types then I'll probably vote for him....in a general election.

If he's going to be another drone that says all the right things but abstains on everything including his mother's tea time then forget it.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Too early to say.

If he beat Jeremy fairly in a leadership contest, actually challenges the Tories on austerity, civil rights and democracy AND distancing himself from the Mandelson/Campbell types then I'll probably vote for him....in a general election.

If he's going to be another drone that says all the right things but abstains on everything including his mother's tea time then forget it.

I'm not talking about a general election, I'm talking about this leadership election, and how it relates to the future of the party.

 

[Kaos]

I'm not talking about a general election, I'm talking about this leadership election, and how it relates to the future of the party.

I still have complete faith in Jeremy so unless he steps down, I won't be voting for anyone else.

 

[Shamwow]

If Owen Smith appeared to be genuine, on the left side of the Party, a competent and engaging speaker, and more electable than Dear Jeremy, would any of the Corbynites on here vote for him, as a move to heal the party?

Yes but he's isn't genuine at all.

 

[Dobba]

If Owen Smith appeared to be genuine, on the left side of the Party, a competent and engaging speaker, and more electable than Dear Jeremy, would any of the Corbynites on here vote for him, as a move to heal the party?

If my auntie had bollocks...

 

[Smores]

If Owen Smith appeared to be genuine, on the left side of the Party, a competent and engaging speaker, and more electable than Dear Jeremy, would any of the Corbynites on here vote for him, as a move to heal the party?

If by 'Corbnites' you mean people who voted for him previously then yes i would. Im open to consider any potential leader if they fit my desired direction of the Labour party.
Im not going to vote for anyone simply to satisfy the MPs though as they're not permanent fixtures themselves.

My ideal outcome is a more presentable leader campaigning on Corbyns mandate (minus trident and immigration). I doubt Owen Smith is that man though.

Still considering cancelling my membership.

 

[Kaos]

The only other candidate I'd consider voting for if he ran is Clive Lewis, genuine Labour type, young and even has that military background to appease the Daily Mail and Little Englanders.

His platform is very similar to Corbyn's though, so I don't see him running at the same time. Definitely one I'd get behind in the future.

 

[sun_tzu]

The only other candidate I'd consider voting for if he ran is Clive Lewis, genuine Labour type, young and even has that military background to appease the Daily Mail and Little Englanders.

His platform is very similar to Corbyn's though, so I don't see him running at the same time. Definitely one I'd get behind in the future.

It shouldn't matter - but I can see the fact that he received counselling for depression being something that would play badly for him.

 

[Kaos]

It shouldn't matter - but I can see the fact that he received counselling for depression being something that would play badly for him.

He can spin that into a positive, shows us he's human and will actually take mental health seriously, unlike the sociopaths we have now.

Would love to see the Daily Heil and the Sun try and condemn a serviceman for suffering from depression.

 

[sun_tzu]

He can spin that into a positive, shows us he's human and will actually take mental health seriously, unlike the sociopaths we have now.

can he spin it? - unless he can get murdoch on side I think its out of his hands as to how the story is spun

 

[Kaos]

can he spin it? - unless he can get murdoch on side I think its out of his hands as to how the story is spun

Like I said, even a Murdoch rag would be brave to poke fun at a military man who has served in Afghanistan that has received counselling.

Edit: I edited my previous post a little late.

 

[Smores]

It shouldn't matter - but I can see the fact that he received counselling for depression being something that would play badly for him.

I think you're right on both accounts. If they tried to do so they'd be some uproar/backlash but it would stick as most things do in politics.

Pathetic but thats the world we live in.