Spurs XI: name 4 better Prem players in each position?

GlastonSpur

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I could have put this in the Spurs thread, but, since it's quite relevant to top 4 this season, I think it's worth a separate discussion rather than being buried away.

Setting aside the issue of squad depth, I'd be interested to know views as to which four Prem teams from the realistic contenders for top 4 (who these are is up to you) have better players than Spurs' first XI in any given position. To make it simpler I've lumped four positions into pairings (two CBs and a CM duo). Of course it's not quite as straightforward as this, due to different preferred formations - e.g. 4-2-3-1 vs 4-3-3 - but anyhow ...

To be clear, I'm not asking for the names 1 or 2 or 3 better players or pairings in any position/pairing. Instead I'm asking posters to either name four better players (or pairings), or else to leave the space blank after each Spurs' player/pairing listed if you don't think that there are 4 better players/pairings (from amongst the top 4 contenders).

You can include any players (e.g. Pogba) that your team is almost certainly going sign this summer

By the way, I'm just canvassing views in the hope of sparking an interesting and useful discussion considering that most on here (as far as I'm aware) don't think that Spurs will finish in the top 4 this season. So I'm not claiming that the Spurs first XI is the best in the Prem, nor necessarily that we have a top 4 player/pairing in each position.

You could just cut and paste the following in your reply:

Lloris (GK):
Walker (RB):
Rose (LB):
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership):
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing):
Alli (central AM):
Lamela (right AM):
Eriksen (left AM):
Kane (striker):
 
GlastonSpur said:
By the way, I'm just canvassing views in the hope of sparking an interesting and useful discussion considering that most on here (as far as I'm aware) don't think that Spurs will finish in the top 4 this season. So I'm not claiming that the Spurs first XI is the best in the Prem, nor necessarily that we have a top 4 player/pairing in each position.
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Of course, why would we ever doubt your intentions with this topic?
 
Nobody should be getting in over Alderweireld, he'd walk in to every side in the league.

Other players like Kane, Alli, Lloris are brilliant but teams do have better alternatives in Aguero, Ozil, De Gea etc. I can't think of a defender in the league I'd play over Alderweireld, except for a fit Kompany.
 
You should add manager to your list

Mourinho, Guardiola, Wenger, Conte, Klopp > Pochettino
 
Oh, and arguably Dembele would make every side in the Premier League too. Not quite as definite as Alderweireld but I'm struggling to think of a side who wouldn't start him. Was the second best midfielder in the league last season after Kante.

Potentially only Chelsea, really. He'd definitely make City, Arsenal and United I feel. Would stroll in to Liverpool's side, but there is a genuine lack of great central midfielders in the Prem, despite Pogba coming in.
 
GlastonSpur said:
So I'm not claiming that the Spurs first XI is the best in the Prem, nor necessarily that we have a top 4 player/pairing in each position.
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Personally, I think you have a very balanced squad. Although I wouldn't bet on it, I think you'll finish in the Top 4. I think it helps that your squad has cohesion but that's an argument you use for Arsenal and they always underachieve albeit finish in the top 4. Interesting that there's faith kept in the same 11 but some nice depth signings in Janssen etc.

Well, I'll give this a go.

Lloris (GK): De Gea, Courtois, Cech (3)
Walker (RB): I don't think there are many good right backs at the moment but after last season Walker is up there.
Rose (LB): As above but I think he has weaknesses, I'd rather have Luke Shaw or Azpilicueta and I rate Monreal and Fuchs more than him.
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership): As a pairing one of the best in the league but I'd argue individually the likes of Koscielny, Smalling could have a decent case.
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing): Again I think individually players like Pogba, Kante, Fernandinho are better but as a unit it's hard to argue against a proven pairing. Having said that, on paper I feel Chelsea have the best with Kante, Matic and Fabregas.
Alli (central AM): De Bruyne, Ozil (2)
Lamela (right AM): Mahrez, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez, Willian
Eriksen (left AM): Payet, Hazard and Martial shows World Class promise.
Kane (striker): Aguero, Zlatan (2)
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Oh, and arguably Dembele would make every side in the Premier League too. Not quite as definite as Alderweireld but I'm struggling to think of a side who wouldn't start him. Was the second best midfielder in the league last season after Kante.

Potentially only Chelsea, really. He'd definitely make City, Arsenal and United I feel. Would stroll in to Liverpool's side, but there is a genuine lack of great central midfielders in the Prem, despite Pogba coming in.
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He was better than Morgan last season but previous to that I don't know. Both playing on form I'd take Schneiderlin but maybe I'm just being biased.
 
I'll bite:
Lloris (GK):
Walker (RB):
Rose (LB):
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership):
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing): Us, Arsenal, City, Chelsea
Alli (central AM):
Lamela (right AM): Mahrez, De Bruyne, Mane, Mkhitaryan (tbc)
Eriksen (left AM): close but he's your best player so I'll give you it
Kane (striker): Aguero, Ibrahimovic, Sturridge, Lukaku
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
Personally, I think you have a very balanced squad. Although I wouldn't bet on it, I think you'll finish in the Top 4. I think it helps that your squad has cohesion but that's an argument you use for Arsenal and they always underachieve albeit finish in the top 4. Interesting that there's faith kept in the same 11 but some nice depth signings in Janssen etc.

Well, I'll give this a go.

Lloris (GK): De Gea, Courtois, Cech (3)
Walker (RB): I don't think there are many good right backs at the moment but after last season Walker is up there.
Rose (LB): As above but I think he has weaknesses, I'd rather have Luke Shaw or Azpilicueta and I rate Monreal and Fuchs more than him.
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership): As a pairing one of the best in the league but I'd argue individually the likes of Koscielny, Smalling could have a decent case.
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing): Again I think indivually players like Pogba, Kante, Fernandinho are better but as a unit it's hard to argue against a proven pairing. Having said that, on paper I feel Chelsea have the best with Kante, Matic and Fabregas.
Alli (central AM): De Bruyne, Ozil (2)
Lamela (right AM): Mahrez, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez, Willian
Eriksen (left AM): Payet, Hazard and Martial shows World Class promise.
Kane (striker): Aguero, Zlatan (2)
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Bold are the ones I disagree with.

I was very close with Zlatan, but I don't think you can put him in a team over Kane yet when he's yet to play a game in the Premier League. There may be struggles ahead for him, we don't know. If it was a game in Europe it's Zlatan all day long, but in terms of the league I'd go with Kane. You can't get much more guaranteed than last season's top scorer.
 
If you made a premier league 11 only Alderweireld would get into it for me.

De Gea
Azpi - Alderweireld - Kompany - Shaw
Kante - Pogba
Mahrez - Payet - Sanchez
Zlatan​
 
Castia said:
He was better than Morgan last season but previous to that I don't know. Both playing on form I'd take Schneiderlin but maybe I'm just being biased.
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I don't think Schnederlin has ever had a season as good as Dembele's last year. He was absolutely dominant, put in some monstrous performances and was arguably our best player. I think he's got a lot more to his game than Schneiderlin, and going off current form it's Dembele all the way for me.
 
Bwuk said:
If you made a premier league 11 only Alderweireld would get into it for me.

De Gea
Azpi - Alderweireld - Kompany - Shaw
Kante - Pogba
Mahrez - Payet - Sanchez
Zlatan​
Click to expand...

Aguero > Zlatan. Especially as he's actually played in the PL. Azpi usually plays LB too doesn't he so bit of a cheat having him at RB?
 
Bwuk said:
If you made a premier league 11 only Alderweireld would get into it for me.

De Gea
Azpi - Alderweireld - Kompany - Shaw
Kante - Pogba
Mahrez - Payet - Sanchez
Zlatan​
Click to expand...

Azpilicueta doesn't deserve that place based off last season and it's Aguero for me, no question. Ozil over Payet too.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Bold are the ones I disagree with.

I was very close with Zlatan, but I don't think you can put him in a team over Kane yet when he's yet to play a game in the Premier League. There may be struggles ahead for him, we don't know. If it was a game in Europe it's Zlatan all day long, but in terms of the league I'd go with Kane. You can't get much more guaranteed than last season's top scorer.
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That's a fair point on Zlatan, Kane is an established 20+ goal scorer. I think I'm blinded by the fact that it's Zlatan and not considering its Zlatan of age 34 making his PL debut.
 
Spurs do have a very impressive squad on paper. Many say they're about Liverpool level but based on last season, their central defence and midfield are much better than ours.

However, Kane looked like an absolute donkey at the euros. Hopefully that continues into this season.
 
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MyOnlySolskjaer said:
That's a fair point on Zlatan, Kane is an established 20+ goal scorer. I think I'm blinded by the fact that it's Zlatan and not considering its Zlatan of age 34 making his PL debut.
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Not blinded at all, it's a very reasonable opinion. Most people would probably go for Zlatan, he's undoubtedly a much more talented player and has more about him.

Like you say though, I prefer Kane just because he's established himself as a brilliant goalscorer in the Prem.
 
Bwuk said:
If you made a premier league 11 only Alderweireld would get into it for me.

De Gea
Azpi - Alderweireld - Kompany - Shaw
Kante - Pogba
Mahrez - Payet - Sanchez
Zlatan​
Click to expand...

Kompany:lol:
If we are going so much back in history we can put Terry in there as well.
 
Lloris (GK): De Gea's the only keeper I'd definitely place above him. Courtois is a 50/50, as Lloris had a better season last year but like most Chelsea players Courtois underperformed. Apart from those two Lloris is better than every other keeper. 2ish.

Walker (RB): Walker impressed me last season and perhaps its my own ignorance but I still don't rate him very highly. In terms of PL right backs I would definitely have Bellerin and Azpilicueta over him. Then there's the likes of Sagna, Clyne, Valencia and Coleman who are on a pretty similar level. 2.

Rose (LB): Again and like Walker, a player who's come on leaps and bounds - even defensively - I rate him above Walker, but as far as PL left backs go. Shaw, Monreal, Azpilicueta and Fuchs are superior IMO. 4.

Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership): For me the best centre back partnership in the league, so zero in that regard. Individually Alderweireld is excellent, bettered only by Kompany IMO. I prefer Kompany, Smalling, Koscielny, Reid, Otamendi to Vertonghen though. 0.

Dier & Dembele (CM pairing): Again, solid partnership in the engine room. Xhaka and Cazorla has the makings of an excellent duo though, particularly technically. Not nearly as combative as D&D though. Not sure about partnerships, but individually I prefer the likes of Pogba, Kante, Gundogan, Cazorla, Xhaka and Can to Dier. Dembele ranks quite highly though. Not sure.

Alli (central AM): As exciting a prospect as he is, he still has a lot to learn in the AM role and flits in and out of games too much for my liking at the moment. Ozil, De Bruyne, Silva, Mhikitaryan, Coutinho, Payet, Fabregas, Willian all above him. Firmino and Mata pretty equal. I appreciate I'm probably giving Alli a bit of a disservice here, as I said, I don't think he's very exciting but just still has a lot to learn. 8.

Lamela (right AM): Lamelas looked so impressive in preseason this could be his best season to date in a Spurs shirt by a long shot. I'd have Mahrez, Mane and Sanchez over him. 3.

Eriksen (left AM): naturally a central AM, but on the basis of left wingers. I like Martial, Hazard and Coutinho there more. 3.

Kane (striker): Kane's excellent. I'd have him below Aguero and Ibra though. 2.
 
Leftback99 said:
I'll bite:
Lloris (GK):
Walker (RB):
Rose (LB):
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership):
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing): Us, Arsenal, City, Chelsea
Alli (central AM):
Lamela (right AM): Mahrez, De Bruyne, Mane, Mkhitaryan (tbc)
Eriksen (left AM): close but he's your best player so I'll give you it
Kane (striker): Aguero, Ibrahimovic, Sturridge, Lukaku
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A lot of this is reaching.

Lukaku better than Kane? No. Sturridge would be, but he's not fit for long enough.
Ibrahimovich is debatable until he plays.

And on what planet does United have a stronger midfield pairing than Dier and Dembele?
 
Speak said:
A lot of this is reaching.

Lukaku better than Kane? No. Sturridge would be, but he's not fit for long enough.
Ibrahimovich is debatable until he plays.

And on what planet does United have a stronger midfield pairing than Dier and Dembele?
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When Pogba joins, we should (on paper at least) have a stronger CM pairing than Spurs.
 
Interesting to compare the responses in this thread to the "will Spurs finish top 4" poll in the Spurs thread. Only 20% voted yes in that poll, yet there are many posts in this thread where a majority of Spurs' positions are rated top 4 in the league or higher.

As for Spurs forums being shit, some certainly are. The forum where I typically post has gotten unusually quiet during the off season so i started spending more time here. Really one of the best forums for opposition fans IMO.
 
BigDub said:
Interesting to compare the responses in this thread to the "will Spurs finish top 4" poll in the Spurs thread. Only 20% voted yes in that poll, yet there are many posts in this thread where a majority of Spurs' positions are rated top 4 in the league or higher.

As for Spurs forums being shit, some certainly are. The forum where I typically post has gotten unusually quiet during the off season so i started spending more time here. Really one of the best forums for opposition fans IMO.
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Because that is not how it works. Some team may have a much stronger attack and could easily outperform Spurs by scoring more goals than their opponents regularly. Something Pool did when they nearly won the league due to Suarez although their defense was poor even then. You just need one talisman and he can completely tilt the balance of the team.

Also, the defense is not isolated but is shored up by midfield and tactics. No one would have said Smalling and Blind will be a great partnership but we still had the second best defensive record due to the set up and the midfield. That is how a 'team' plays. It is not just a bunch of individual positions doing their own respective jobs which shape results.
 
BigDub said:
Interesting to compare the responses in this thread to the "will Spurs finish top 4" poll in the Spurs thread. Only 20% voted yes in that poll, yet there are many posts in this thread where a majority of Spurs' positions are rated top 4 in the league or higher.

As for Spurs forums being shit, some certainly are. The forum where I typically post has gotten unusually quiet during the off season so i started spending more time here. Really one of the best forums for opposition fans IMO.
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You are putting WAY too much stock in this arbitrary system. Does this thread compare the title contenders directly to one another? No. It asks for 4 players/combinations that are ahead of their Spurs counterparts. How utterly irrelevant. I'm not gonna play that, instead I'll name four teams that are better. City, Chelsea, Arsenal, United.
 
NK86 said:
Because that is not how it works. Some team may have a much stronger attack and could easily outperform Spurs by scoring more goals than their opponents regularly. Something Pool did when they nearly won the league due to Suarez although their defense was poor even then. You just need one talisman and he can completely tilt the balance of the team.

Also, the defense is not isolated but is shored up by midfield and tactics. No one would have said Smalling and Blind will be a great partnership but we still had the second best defensive record due to the set up and the midfield. That is how a 'team' plays. It is not just a bunch of individual positions doing their own respective jobs which shape results.
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Of course it's not how it works, I just said it was interesting. There have been multiple posts in this thread saying Spurs have both the best CB pairing and the best CM pairing (not individuals, but as a combined unit). You'd think a team with both of these things, regardless of the shirt they're wearing, would be a pretty likely bet to finish top 4, especially if they also have a 20 goal per season striker and one of the top 5 or keepers in the world.
 
jungledrums said:
You are putting WAY too much stock in this arbitrary system. Does this thread compare the title contenders directly to one another? No. It asks for 4 players/combinations that are ahead of their Spurs counterparts. How utterly irrelevant. I'm not gonna play that, instead I'll name four teams that are better. City, Chelsea, Arsenal, United.
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What stock have I put in anything? Did I say anywhere that the responses in this thread or the other clearly mean Spurs are going to win the league or something?? Sheesh. I was just making a general observation about how two similar things (a discussion of the quality of Spurs' individual players and a poll evaluating where they'll finish this season) are producing some interestingly contrasted opinions. I haven't drawn any conclusions.

As for those four teams being better than Spurs, that's your opinion, you're entitled to it and I'm sure you're not the only one with it. I suspect, though, that it is due in large part to new coaches and select players those teams have (or potentially will have). I tend to put more stock in measurable on field performance and, going by that metric, Spurs have recently proven to be better than 3 of the 4 teams you mention. So I would tend to be a bit more careful before declaring so definitively that those 4 teams are better. But clearly we don't see eye to eye there. The beauty of football, and the beauty of the forums we discuss it in.
 
BigDub said:
Of course it's not how it works, I just said it was interesting. There have been multiple posts in this thread saying Spurs have both the best CB pairing and the best CM pairing (not individuals, but as a combined unit). You'd think a team with both of these things, regardless of the shirt they're wearing, would be a pretty likely bet to finish top 4, especially if they also have a 20 goal per season striker and one of the top 5 or keepers in the world.
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People are saying many players are ahead of at least one of the players in that pair. That player could make all the difference especially considering that Pogba is going to be in the United team and I would be hard pressed to find a better midfielder than him in the PL. He will completely change the face of our MF and suddenly it will look better than yours.

Our defense was very good last season and we had Shaw out for almost the whole of last season. He was in terrific form until that time. So we will likely improve on that as well.

Yes you have a fantastic striker and a very good GK but all the top conpetitors and serious contenders have that.

Considering that there was just 4 points difference between 3rd and 5th place despite Spurs having such a finely balanced first 11 who were excellent last year, it is understandable why many people think that Spurs could easily finish outside the top 4.
 
jungledrums said:
You are putting WAY too much stock in this arbitrary system. Does this thread compare the title contenders directly to one another? No. It asks for 4 players/combinations that are ahead of their Spurs counterparts. How utterly irrelevant. I'm not gonna play that, instead I'll name four teams that are better. City, Chelsea, Arsenal, United.
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There's nothing whatsoever that (at this moment) suggests all four are better than Tottenham.
 
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