United vs City squad comparison 2016/17

[Von Mistelroum]

I'd say that we win in the GK department, but there's arguments to be made for either side in every other area. Overall I think that City have the better squad, but it depends on the fitness of their more physically challenged stars like Gundogan and Aguero.

If making a team it'd be:

De Gea
Sagna Stones Bailly Shaw
Gundogan Pogba
De Bruyne Silva Martial
Ibrahimovic
​

Of best players that is, not necessarily a perfectly functioning team :P

 

[LuisNaniencia]

The amount of contradictions in that post to "prove" the point of your original post is baffling.

On the one hand you are unsure about Shaw because he is coming back from an injury but Kompany's constant injury problems are not noteworthy.

Then you say Bailly has played "two" games (but conveniently forget he was excellent for Villareal last season), but are saying Stones is better than him because Pep has bought him (again after conveniently forgetting that Jose bought Bailly so unless you are saying your opinion is better than Jose's, it's again lopsided and contradictory).

Smalling is "average to good and overrated here" but you are doing just the same with Stones. Blind has been very good for us last season and yet you simple cast him aside because the caf thought he wasn't good enough earlier (the same caf whose opinion you shrugged off in Stones' case).

There ate many more such which I really cannot be bothered to put it here as I am on my phone. In short, your analysis was very lame.

Exactly what I thought reading it. Contradictions everywhere.

 

[charlton66]

Woah actually you know what? Let's not stop here. Ferguson once called Jones the new Duncan Edwards. Duncan Edwards > anybody at City, Ferguson's opinion > anybody's, hence I think that if Jones is fit (doesn't matter he's never fit for the sake of me being right) then they're not even close to us in defence.

Huh!

 

[Cassidy]

The amount of contradictions in that post to "prove" the point of your original post is baffling.

On the one hand you are unsure about Shaw because he is coming back from an injury but Kompany's constant injury problems are not noteworthy.

Then you say Bailly has played "two" games (but conveniently forget he was excellent for Villareal last season), but are saying Stones is better than him because Pep has bought him (again after conveniently forgetting that Jose bought Bailly so unless you are saying your opinion is better than Jose's, it's again lopsided and contradictory).

Smalling is "average to good and overrated here" but you are doing just the same with Stones. Blind has been very good for us last season and yet you simple cast him aside because the caf thought he wasn't good enough earlier (the same caf whose opinion you shrugged off in Stones' case).

There ate many more such which I really cannot be bothered to put it here as I am on my phone. In short, your analysis was very lame.

Ouch

 

[kps88]

Agree with the OP's assessment. But every neutral saying City has the better squad just makes me feel I'm being biased.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

Very even in my books,

GK- united
Defence- equal
Midfield- cant tell until we see gundagun, but id learn towards united given Pogba's performance.
attack- City I think they just have more proven depth, and pep gets the best out of free flowing offensive minded players,but its closer than its been for a while. and its not a large gap.

 

[Kostur]

what a day. What a lovely day! Hope you're well man. I'll be back later to see if i can analyse the 2 squads. In the meantime, don't kill anyone!

Yeah man, hope you're alright too.

 

[charlton66]

Exactly what I thought reading it. Contradictions everywhere.

At least read my response before you quote the criticism of my original post. If you still think there are contradictions then fair enough.

 

[Xaviesta]

Goalkeeper: United
Defense: United just.
Midfield: Even when everybody is fit.
Attack: United.

 

[charlton66]

Ouch

I'm taking a kicking here. Double ouch.

 

[Cassidy]

I actually think this is a very good response. I still stick by the players I picked (Sagna, Stones, Kompany, Shaw) but this definitely made me consider re-evaluating.

Stones shouldn't even be ahead of Ottamendi

 

[Manchester Dan]

Always a tough debate because an average player can perform fantastically well in the right system, and vice versa. For example, you can see how important John Stones is to the way we are going to play, and he'll suit it perfectly, but that doesn't make him a better defender than anybody on paper in a direct comparison, and yet he's likely a better fit for us than some other better defenders.

Overall our squads are probably quite similar. Personally when all 25 are fit and firing then I'd take City all day, and you'd probably take United.

 

[charlton66]

Stones shouldn't even be ahead of Ottamendi

It was a toss up for me. Right now, I think Stones has a higher ceiling, but I wouldn't have too much of a problem choosing Otamendi over Stones.

 

[Cassidy]

Always a tough debate because an average player can perform fantastically well in the right system, and vice versa. For example, you can see how important John Stones is to the way we are going to play, and he'll suit it perfectly, but that doesn't make him a better defender than anybody on paper in a direct comparison, and yet he's likely a better fit for us than some other better defenders.

Overall our squads are probably quite similar. Personally when all 25 are fit and firing then I'd take City all day, and you'd probably take United.

I'd actually chose Citys starting 11 because I think KDB and Aguero are just excellent in the attack and will make the difference if Aguero can stay fit. But I think both teams are comparable. United better defensively City better going forward

 

[Cassidy]

It was a toss up for me. Right now, I think Stones has a higher ceiling, but I wouldn't have too much of a problem choosing Otamendi over Stones.

Fair enough, lad has a lot to prove this season, he can though of course.

 

[NK86]

Always a tough debate because an average player can perform fantastically well in the right system, and vice versa. For example, you can see how important John Stones is to the way we are going to play, and he'll suit it perfectly, but that doesn't make him a better defender than anybody on paper in a direct comparison, and yet he's likely a better fit for us than some other better defenders.

Overall our squads are probably quite similar. Personally when all 25 are fit and firing then I'd take City all day, and you'd probably take United.

Fair enough. In attack, I feel KDB is a huge difference maker and since we are stuck with Rooney, he (Rooney) gives you the edge by being really shite.

 

[NK86]

Fair enough, lad has a lot to prove this season, he can though of course.

In no universe is Stones ahead of Smalling.

 

[Cassidy]

In no universe is Stones ahead of Smalling.

Not sure why you're quoting me on that. I haven't made any reference to Smalling

 

[LawCharltonBest]

If we consider Fellaini and Rooney as midfielders, then City have the better overall midfield 3.

City have the better attack because of Aguero alone.

Defense is close but because of Kompanys injury problems, I say United edge it.

De Gea eats and craps Claude Bravo

 

[NK86]

Not sure why you're quoting me on that. I haven't made any reference to Smalling

Sorry. I was trying to quote @charlton66.

 

[charlton66]

In no universe is Stones ahead of Smalling.

If you say something often enough, it doesn't make it right. I'd be absolutely amazed if anyone considered offering anywhere near 47 million if Chris Smalling was put up for sale. I know the price of a player doesn't mean everything but there usually is a strong correlation between price and ability.

 

[BarcaSpurs]

If you say something often enough, it doesn't make it right. I'd be absolutely amazed if anyone considered offering anywhere near 47 million if Chris Smalling was put up for sale. I know the price of a player doesn't mean everything but there usually is a strong correlation between price and ability.

Smalling isn't 22. A heavy factor in the price paid for Stones was because of his potential, which you could fairly argue is higher than Smallings because of his younger age but it doesn't reflect their current abilities, Smalling was very good for United last season whilst Stones had a pretty average season with Everton, Smalling was also picked ahead of him for the Euro's.

 

[charlton66]

Sorry. I was trying to quote @charlton66.

Not sure why you're quoting me on that. I haven't made any reference to Smalling

You're just trying to deflect some of the kicks. Appreciate it.

 

[Cassidy]

If you say something often enough, it doesn't make it right. I'd be absolutely amazed if anyone considered offering anywhere near 47 million if Chris Smalling was put up for sale. I know the price of a player doesn't mean everything but there usually is a strong correlation between price and ability.

He is right though Stones right now cannot be considered better than Smalling. You think he has the potential to be but he is definitely not better right now, and he may never be tbh.

EDIT: Remember what you paid for Mangala it doesn't mean a thing

 

[Mark_Barca]

Goalkeepers
DDG > Bravo
Willy > Romero
Man United 1-1 Man City
Full backs
Sagna > Valencia
Zabaleta > Darmian
Shaw > Kolarov
Clichy = Rojo
Man City 2-1 Man United
Defenders
Kompany > Smalling
Bailly > Stones
Otamendi > Jones
Blind > Denayer
Man United 2-2 Man City
Defensive Mid
Fernandinho > Fellaini
Carrick > Fernando
Man United 1-1 Man City
Centre Mid
Gundogan > Schneiderlin
Herrara > Delph
Pogba > Toure
Man United 2-1 Man City
Attacking Mid
KDB > Pereira
Silva > Mata
Man City 2-1 Man United
Wide players
Navas > Depay
Nolito > Martial
MKH > Sane
Sterling > Lingard
Nasri > Young
Man City 4-1 Man United
Forwards
Aguero > Zlatan
Rooney > Bony
Iheanacho = Rashford
Man United 1-1 Man City

Man City 14-10.

That's my views on this comparison, fully expect the Nolito call to annoy many on here. Martial has a higher ceiling, but if you offered me one of those two for this full season, I'pick Nolito who's very underrated on here.

 

[charlton66]

Smalling isn't 22. A heavy factor in the price paid for Stones was because of his potential, which you could fairly argue is higher than Smallings because of his younger age but it doesn't reflect their current abilities, Smalling was very good for United last season whilst Stones had a pretty average season with Everton, Smalling was also picked ahead of him for the Euro's.

That's fair, but 47 million would suggest he's already pretty darned good. Giroud was also chosen ahead of Martial for France. Which one would you take?

 

[charlton66]

He is right though Stones right now cannot be considered better than Smalling. You think he has the potential to be but he is definitely not better right now, and he may never be tbh.

EDIT: Remember what you paid for Mangala it doesn't mean a thing

I've never been a huge fan of Chris Smalling. He's just never done it for me. He played well last season (for the most part) I've got to admit. Another strong season and I may re-evaluate.

Believe it or not I'm a United fan. Just trying to be an objective one.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

At least read my response before you quote the criticism of my original post. If you still think there are contradictions then fair enough.

I was talking about your response not your original post. You're entitled to your opinion, it just seems like you are using different sets of rules for the 2 teams.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

They have the better attack with De Bruyne, Sterling, Aguero, Sane, etc.

We have the better defence and midfield.

 

[charlton66]

I was talking about your response not your original post. You're entitled to your opinion, it just seems like you are using different sets of rules for the 2 teams.

I'm trying to be fair here and believe it or not enjoying this discussion, so please can you be specific?

 

[NK86]

If you say something often enough, it doesn't make it right. I'd be absolutely amazed if anyone considered offering anywhere near 47 million if Chris Smalling was put up for sale. I know the price of a player doesn't mean everything but there usually is a strong correlation between price and ability.

Andy Carroll went for 35 mil. Surely must be better than a lot of strikers. By that same token, Sterling is better than Mkhitariyan. Martial is better than Aguero.

I hope you realize that the price argument has no legs to stand on. City has thrown stupid amount of money on a lot of players who haven't lived up to the hype. Consider this - Alderweireld cost less than a third of Stones' price and is at least twice the player.

Also you are assuming Smalling won't cost that much. Any of our rivals will have to bid much, much higher than that to get anywhere near Smalling.

 

[Stactix]

That's fair, but 47 million would suggest he's already pretty darned good. Giroud was also chosen ahead of Martial for France. Which one would you take?

Benteke went for 32mill twice..
Andy Caroll 35 mill?

He was very poor last season. Compare that to Smalling who for the majority of the season was 'very good'. He had some bumps in the road and 1-2 very poor games but overall very consistent, same with Blind.

Based on last seasons performances I would chose both of them without question over Stones.

How many players actually reach their potential? I imagine it's a rather small amount. Especially when English players are hyped to hell for doing jackshit.

 

[NK86]

That's fair, but 47 million would suggest he's already pretty darned good. Giroud was also chosen ahead of Martial for France. Which one would you take?

No. All that 47 mil suggests is City are still the same mugs who cannot buy a decent defender without overpaying crazily.

 

[Cityfaninpeace]

I think the title will be heading to Manchester this season as I don't see any of Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs being able to compete with us and City. Whilst pondering this I arrived at the conclusion that we have the strongest squad in the league (on paper), so what with the disadvantages of our Europa League commitments I think the title will be a very close run race. Upon arriving at my conclusions I compared our squad with City's:

Goalkeeper
The easiest verdict to reach, De Gea is simply the best in the world for me therefore even if Bravo does settle in immediately it still wouldn't swing it City's way.
Verdict: UNITED

Defence
I've split it into full backs and centre backs in my mind. For full backs it's clear we have the best one of either squad in Shaw and what with Valencia's resurgence (hopefully continuing) I'd call it a draw because despite City's wealth of experience across Sagna, Zabaleta, Clichy and Kolarov, simply put I think all 4 are past their best. It's just our backups in Darmian and Rojo leave a lot to be decided. As for centre backs I think we quite comfortably lead the way, Smalling, Bailly, Blind surpasses Stones, Otamendi, Kompany. Done us both a favour by excluding Jones and Mangala.
Verdict: UNITED

Midfield
After keepers this was the next simplest decision. Again we have the best midfielder of either squad in Pogba and our remaining options of Herrera, Fellaini, Schneiderlin and Carrick make for a pretty well balanced selection. City will be relying on Gundogan to return well from injury but even given that happening they still only have Fernandinho, Fernando and Delph. Schweinsteiger and Yaya cancel each other out as neither look like featuring or playing any sort of substantial role this season.
Verdict: UNITED

Attack
This was extremely tight, largely due to the similarities in our arsenals e.g. Ibra and Aguero star men, Rashford and Iheanacho up and coming. De Bruyne is simply league's ahead of Rooney as the main playmaker but similar could be said for Martial and Sterling. Silva perhaps takes the edge over Mkhi at this time purely based on his experience in the league whilst the impact of our squad players (Lingard, Memphis, Sane, Navas) is yet to be seen whilst Nolito looks like a steady addition. I confess I do see City scoring more than us this season so I'll give them the edge.
Verdict: CITY

What does everyone think? It's quite clear to me now I've laid out my thoughts which is why I'm surprised so many pundits keep saying City's squad on paper is the best. I think they have an abundance of riches in attack but it's a very top heavy squad, there's question marks over their defence and midfield for me.

Considering De Bruyne and Silva are playing as central midfielders in Pep's system I think you should include them in midfield rather than attack and I would argue because of that we do have better midfielders. Also I'd argue we are at least even on defenders.

 

[charlton66]

Andy Carroll went for 35 mil. Surely must be better than a lot of strikers. By that same token, Sterling is better than Mkhitariyan. Martial is better than Aguero.

I hope you realize that the price argument has no legs to stand on. City has thrown stupid amount of money on a lot of players who haven't lived up to the hype. Consider this - Alderweireld cost less than a third of Stones' price and is at least twice the player.

Also you are assuming Smalling won't cost that much. Any of our rivals will have to bid much, much higher than that to get anywhere near Smalling.

That's why I said price isn't everything but there is usually a strong correlation between price and ability.

 

[NK86]

Considering De Bruyne and Silva are playing as central midfielders in Pep's system I think you should include them in midfield rather than attack and I would argue because of that we do have better midfielders. Also I'd argue we are at least even on defenders.

In that case, we will edge you in attack since Martial is better than Sterling, Nolito/Navas are behind Mata/Lingard/Mkhitariyan while Aguero and Zlatan are about the same.

 

[charlton66]

No. All that 47 mil suggests is City are still the same mugs who cannot buy a decent defender without overpaying crazily.

It would appear they weren't the only ones though.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...sea-star-defender-hands-transfer-request.html
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...Stones-Transfer-News-45m-Bid-Roberto-Martinez

 

[NK86]

That's why I said price isn't everything but there is usually a strong correlation between price and ability.

Not in this case.

 

[roonster09]

That's fair, but 47 million would suggest he's already pretty darned good. Giroud was also chosen ahead of Martial for France. Which one would you take?

City have spent more than 40 million on Mangala and more they are sending him on loan. Just because they spent big money doesn't make him better player.

 

[NK86]

It would appear they weren't the only ones though.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...sea-star-defender-hands-transfer-request.html
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...Stones-Transfer-News-45m-Bid-Roberto-Martinez

Daily Mail and Express! Really?

In any case, that is not really a significant thing as English players are always hyped and overpriced. Sterling went for 50 million pounds. Would you consider him better than the likes of Coman for example?