United vs City squad comparison 2016/17

[LouisDanGaal]

Goalkeeper - a lot closer than it was now that City have signed Bravo but De Gea wins out.

Defence - I don't think this is close. We have a right winger playing right back, a left back coming back from serious injury, a centre back who's a brain fart away from doing something dumb (Smalling), a young, raw possibly future great defender (but it's still only potential) in Bailly and Blind who it could be argued his best position is not in defence. City are better.

Midfield - I don't think this is close either especially if Gundogan stays in the treatment room and De Bruyne and Silva are considered attackers. United are better.

Attack - On paper I think City are much better but on the field I think it may end up being closer than people think especially if Rooney can somehow find his best position on the bench. City are better.

He has been a right back for about 4 years at this point and he is a top drawer right back. Seriously how long can it take people to clock on.

Messi was a false 9 for years now he plays at right wing. People don't talk him down or nag on about being out of position.

 

[Ace of Spades]

GK and defense - United
Midfield - Both are fairly even
Attack - City

 

[Womp]

He has been a right back for about 4 years at this point and he is a top drawer right back. Seriously how long can it take people to clock on.

Messi was a false 9 for years now he plays at right wing. People don't talk him down or nag on about being out of position.

Messi started on the wing, completely different scenario, but I agree. Think it's too early to suggest he's a "top" right back yet though, still early days, see if he can maintain this form.

 

[Womp]

GK and Defence- United
Midfield- Pretty even, United maybe edging it with Pogba
Attack- Pretty even, City maybe edging it with Aguero

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Messi started on the wing, completely different scenario, but I agree. Think it's too early to suggest he's a "top" right back yet though, still early days, see if he can maintain this form.

He has been a top defender for years. He just hasn't had the going forward side to his game until the tail end of last season. I have never had any questions about him defensively, no winger ever gets the better of him.

 

[hobbers]

Goalkeeper: De Gea is the best in the world.

Defence: Better player in every position and better back ups. Not counting Kompany because he will never be fit.

Midfield: Best midfielder in Pogba, and much more strengh in depth.

Attack: Fairly equal in most of the attacking positions, but Aguero is by far the best striker in the league.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

I don't really think you can have this debate until 10 or so games into the season.

A lot of people seem to dismiss Valencia over Sagna, but has had a great start to the season and if the form continues, would be the choice of the two.
Fellaini is also having a good start to the season and could be an integral part of our season.

I haven't seen as much as City this season, so can't really judge, but Otamendi who wasn't great last season could also have a very good campaign this year.
Right now, I'd pick Bailly over Otamendi and Stones, but I would also argue he hasn't played against one of the better teams yet and could well be shown up at that point.

Right now though, my fully fit team would be:

De Gea, Valencia, Kompany, Bailly, Shaw, Gundogan, Pogba, Sterling (I think, I'm struggling at RW), KDB, Martial, Aguero

 

[ShakeUnBake]

Thing is, when you have solid additions like Bailly, Ibrahimovic, Pogba and Micky, everyone else plays better too, because there is so much to deal with for the opposition.

 

[John Blund]

I rate Gundogan, but I haven't seen him in PL yet, so I can't pick him yet. If he's as fit as he were in Bundesliga, I'd probably have him central, with Miki as RW.
Valencia was better than Sagna/Zabaleta last season. I really can see him and Shaw take advantage of their speed forward this season.
Sterling is overrated. He's the new Walcott.
If Yaya suddenly decides he's the best midfielder in PL again, he'll be claiming a spot next to Pogba.
Silva had 11 assists in 22 games or so last season.

DDG
Valencia - Smalling - Otamendie - Shaw.
Silva - Pogba - KDB - Matrial
Agüero - Zlatan

or

DDG
Valencia - Smalling - Otamendie - Shaw.
Silva - Pogba - Gundogan
Agüero - Zlatan - KDB

 

[Riz]

I rate Gundogan, but I haven't seen him in PL yet, so I can't pick him yet. If he's as fit as he were in Bundesliga, I'd probably have him central, with Miki as RW.
Valencia was better than Sagna/Zabaleta last season. I really can see him and Shaw take advantage of their speed forward this season.
Sterling is overrated. He's the new Walcott.
If Yaya suddenly decides he's the best midfielder in PL again, he'll be claiming a spot next to Pogba.
Silva had 11 assists in 22 games or so last season.

DDG
Valencia - Smalling - Otamendie - Shaw.
Silva - Pogba - KDB - Matrial
Agüero - Zlatan

or

DDG
Valencia - Smalling - Otamendie - Shaw.
Silva - Pogba - Gundogan
Agüero - Zlatan - KDB

He's been noticeably declining in recent years. The fact that he's not made the squad for their first 2 league games let alone the first 11 makes it very doubtful in my eyes that we'll see any sort of return to his best.

 

[Shark]

He's been noticeably declining in recent years. The fact that he's not made the squad for their first 2 league games let alone the first 11 makes it very doubtful in my eyes that we'll see any sort of return to his best.

I've always said that once Yaya declines, City won't be half the team, even with Gundogen. Yaya was so good at his best, and they have nobody similar which is why pretty much the whole City fan base wanted Pogba who will become even better.

 

[Spotkick]

This is so incredibly useless. Writing of players against each other doesnt work.
Can u imagine Rainieri did that last year, Leicester woud've ended somewhere around 13th.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

This is so incredibly useless. Writing of players against each other doesnt work.
Can u imagine Rainieri did that last year, Leicester woud've ended somewhere around 13th.

Nah, they'd be higher up the table...of relegation candidates.

 

[Lawman]

I don't really think you can have this debate until 10 or so games into the season.

A lot of people seem to dismiss Valencia over Sagna, but has had a great start to the season and if the form continues, would be the choice of the two.
Fellaini is also having a good start to the season and could be an integral part of our season.

I haven't seen as much as City this season, so can't really judge, but Otamendi who wasn't great last season could also have a very good campaign this year.
Right now, I'd pick Bailly over Otamendi and Stones, but I would also argue he hasn't played against one of the better teams yet and could well be shown up at that point.

Right now though, my fully fit team would be:

De Gea, Valencia, Kompany, Bailly, Shaw, Gundogan, Pogba, Sterling (I think, I'm struggling at RW), KDB, Martial, Aguero

If your putting in Gundogan then surely Mikkyt goes in at right wing also?

 

[carlosp]

If you say something often enough, it doesn't make it right. I'd be absolutely amazed if anyone considered offering anywhere near 47 million if Chris Smalling was put up for sale. I know the price of a player doesn't mean everything but there usually is a strong correlation between price and ability.

That's like saying United have the best midfield because we have Pogba, the most expensive player in the position. Thing is United do, seeing as Gundogan is currently injured and might not take to the league as a fish in water. Still doesn't mean Stones is better than Smalling.

GK: we had the best GK last season in the league. No reason to doubt he won't be the best GK this season other than he might not do much with the best defensive team in front of him. For City, Bravo might be good but he will need to prove himself.

Defence: The best defence last season. I expect the best defence this season too. Smalling was immense most of last season as was Blind(even though some don't see Blind as a CB). And that team has improved with Bailly, the best defensive CB in Spain last season. For city, depending if they can get and keep Kompany fit, they could challenge for that best defence spot or not.

Midfield: Now city have arguably the best midfield but we have brought in Pogba, arguably the best midfielder in the world. Mourinho will no doubt build the midfield team around him. It's still new'ish but the prospect is exciting. That said City have great players in the mid too and if Pep can get them to perform then they should be immense. Depending on who plays where and when, it's a close call.

Attack: Aguero will always be huge for city and even though he was injured for part of the season he ended up on 24 goals in the league, 1 behind Kane. City also scored the most goals, 71 goals. They will most likely continue with that form so expect lots of goals this season from them. That said, we have bought in Ibrahamovic. Yes he is old, almost 35 but he seems fit and raring to go. He was also the best attacker in the French league last season so might play a huge part for the team. However, much depends on Rooney, Martial and the rest of the forwards. The potential is there. That said we might not out score city for the most goals. Pending. The lads need to perform.

Last is managers. People have left these out for some reason but I believe managers should be added to this thread too as they will play a huge roll this season. Mourinho is comfortably the best in the league at this moment and his record stands for all to see. Manchester United is a huge prospect though but it seems he came well prepared and looks to have landed on his feet running. Pep too has a great record, however none in the league although he too seems to have landed on his feet running. That said, I will give Mourinho the point here ahead of Pep.

On a side note. People have written Chelsea off. Don't. Conte seems experienced enough and they do have a good team. They might ultimately fall short but I expect them to fight for the league. I don't expect Arsenal to.

 

[CS@SG]

Why are we making this kind of comparison?

The head-to-head results and the final league ranking will do the talking and that are what matter, not such comparison.

 

[carlosp]

Why are we making this kind of comparison?

The head-to-head results and the final league ranking will do the talking and that are what matter, not such comparison.

Because ultimately as fans we can. And it's fun. Sometimes.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Bravo better than DDG. Now I've read it all

 

[Zlatan Ibrahimovic]

Why are we making this kind of comparison?

The head-to-head results and the final league ranking will do the talking and that are what matter, not such comparison.

The whole point of a message board, to create discussion? I'd rather this than seeing another thread on Rooney etc..

 

[prath92]

Bravo better than DDG. Now I've read it all

Bravo better than de gea because of last year's stats but stones better than Blind because of potential. Bailly not yet tested against stronger teams yet stones did well vs Sunderland and Stoke so he is good.

I'm sure like me you had a good laugh first thing in the morning.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Goalkeeper: We've got the advantage here, but Bravo if they get him is very good.

Defense: Think we edge it here as well. Kompany is injury prone and has declined. Sagna/Clichy aren't the greatest full-backs. Think Shaw/Valencia are both better. Bailly-Blind-Smalling as the core 3 centerbacks over Kompany/Otamendi/Stones for me.

Midfield: We've got the best player in midfield in Pogba, but would say it's close. Pogba/Herrera/Schneiderlin/Fellaini/Carrick vs Fernandinho/Fernando/Gundogan/Yaya/Delph. Think our midfield is slightly better, but don't think either team has a great midfield. It's close. Gundogan's injury woes would probably make me lean towards our midfield.

Attack: If Rooney continues to occupy the number 10 position, City edge it here then. Even if Rooney is ousted, I think their attacking players somewhat compliment each other better, but early days. They're heavily reliant on Aguero, but I do wonder if we'd have enough goals without Ibra.

Very close between the 2 squads IMO.

 

[carlosp]

He's been noticeably declining in recent years. The fact that he's not made the squad for their first 2 league games let alone the first 11 makes it very doubtful in my eyes that we'll see any sort of return to his best.

Gundogan is injured and will only make his return in October or later. It's been a known fact since city bought him. So no he wouldn't have played the first two games and won't feature is the next couple.

 

[carlosp]

Regarding Goalkeeper, a lot of folks in Spain have Bravo as the best goalkeeper in the world or at least next to Neuer....along with Navas....

If your comparing Bravo to DDG, than I would picked current Bravo over DDG.

Yeah, a lot of people in Spain would. In reality though, no!

 

[carlosp]

Not sure why people are mentioning Gundogan. He is injured unil October or later. Until he returns to full fitness and starts playing, I think it's safe to not compare him at all.

Also Iheanacho got injured last night. Not sure how long he is going to be out for but looked like a hamstring and for a moment he seemed to space out(seizure?) as well. Came right after about 2 secs though.

Kompany is still unfit at the moment from what I have heard. Has he been training? I know Smalling has.

Toure doesn't look his old self but there were games last year he turned, but those were few unlike his previous years.

 

[cyberman]

Regarding Goalkeeper, a lot of folks in Spain have Bravo as the best goalkeeper in the world or at least next to Neuer....along with Navas....

If your comparing Bravo to DDG, than I would picked current Bravo over DDG.

Yeah one appearance in the league last year. Those Spanish sure do value him ffs.
The shape of this post. Current Bravo is an unused 33 year old sub!

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

We are better as a whole, by a hair, only because we have a few more big brutes that can win us games in the hectic Christmas fixtures.

Squad wise, we have a better defense (GK included), midfield is even (theirs is more technical, ours more robust), and their attack is clearly better (Aguero + Nolito + Ilheanacho > Zlatan + Shrek + Rashford)

 

[jungledrums]

Okay, I'll break it down. Valencia was/is a winger and has been shoehorned into the right back position because Darmian has not really lived up to expectations. He's done well there for the most part but it's not been that long ago where large swathes of the Caf wanted him sold. Given the choice I'd choose Sagna right now. If Valencia can keep up the level he's shown so far this season then maybe I'll change my mind. On to Shaw. I think he may end up being a very good player. However he has just come back from a very serious injury. If he plays to the potential he showed at Soton and his early form of last season then he'll be a good 'un. However, because he has just come back from said injury things may not go as swimmingly as everybody seems to think. I hope it does but let's wait and see. Having said that I'd still probably choose Shaw over anybody from City.

As to the centre of defense. Bailly has played two games TWO, and yet people are already writing he is the next coming of Nemanja Vidic. I think he may turn out to be a very good player, but please let's wait and see. City on the other hand have just bought John Stones for 47 million pounds. Yes he is overpriced but Pep Guardiola must think he's worth it and no matter what people think of my "weird" analysis, I'd take Pep's opinion over yours and other peoples' on the Caf. Chris Smalling is a decent to good player but is massively over-rated on here. When you've been used to Ferdinand and Vidic for so long, Smalling is certainly nowhere near their level. Blind has done well at United, no doubt, but it wasn't long ago people on here were predicting that he'd be a casualty of the new Mourinho regime. He is a jack of all trades and has done a decent job at United but once again see comment above related to Ferdinand and Vidic. Kompany on the other hand while having his injury problems is only 30 years old and if he can get back to anywhere near his best then he would be better than anybody we currently have. Thus right now I'd probably choose Kompany and Stones. Hence my analysis.

Jeez, United fans can be touchy sometimes. Any criticism and its almost like somebody shot your dog. Almost RAWK levels!

What the feck is this drivel?
Where to even start... Okay, Valencia is a fullback. That is true of right now. Stop saying he's been shoehorned there. If he performs well there, you can stop mentioning the fact that he's a winger not a fullback, because it is no longer true. Just disregard how shite City's fullbacks have been for a while, all because "Valencia is a winger"...
Onto your Bailly 'analysis'... Pep purchasing Stones for 47 mill is the justification you use to 'prove' that Stones is a good defender... By your same logic, why not look at the fee Mourinho paid for Bailly? Wouldn't you take Mourinho's opinion over everyone else's, too?
No one is touchy, your analysis is just shocking.

 

[carlosp]

Ok, just read a report on Sky about Gundogan in training. Still says he is unfit though. So much for the reports saying he would be out until October when he was bought.

I suppose he will be back in September sometime

 

[hobbers]

Supersub Bravo better than De Gea

Stones is garbage, so his price is irrelevant. He would not start a match for us ahead of Smalling, Bailly or even Blind.

Ok, just read a report on Sky about Gundogan in training. Still says he is unfit though. So much for the reports saying he would be out until October when he was bought.

He'll have another long term injury within a few weeks of playing regardless, so it's academic.

 

[carlosp]

Blind v Bailly v Stones v Otamendi

The current CB discussions stats.

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...defensive_errors/errors_leading_to_goal#total

I think Blind and Bailly look better than Stones and Otamendi.

 

[carlosp]

He'll have another long term injury within a few weeks of playing regardless, so it's academic.

You can't really say that though because he might stay fit. That said he still needs to get fit and then will need to handle the physicality of the premier league. So definitely won't find it easy. Bailly has seemed to integrated well though as has Pogba.

 

[sergiosigurvinson]

looking at it slightly differently If I had to pick a 25man squad using players from both sides Id go with

GK: De Gea, Bravo, Romero (2 united, 1 City)
FB: Shaw, Sagna, Clitchy, Valencia (2 United, 2 City)
CB: Kompany, Smalling, Bailly, Stones (2 United, 2 City)
CM: Pogba, Gundogan, Fernandinho, Toure (1 United, 3 City)
AM: De Bruyne, Rooney, Mkhitaryan (2 united, 1 City)
Wide: Silva, Mata, Sane, Martial (2 United, 2 City)
Fw: Aguero, Zlatan, Rashford (2 united, 1 city) though i could just as easily have picked ihenecho

So for me 13 united and 12 City - but as I say the Rashford decision was very close so it could easily go the other way - In my opinion the squads are pretty close in quality and depth...

the 11 in bold are the ones i would try and shoehorn into a fully fit first team (5 united and 6 City) - again not much in it at all... I suspect injuries / fitness and mental attitude / how the players are managed will play a big part in which squad ultimately does better (as well as city with cl commitments and do we take the EL seriously or not)

I think we look the better team.
In the end it will be United, because when Kompany would be in the starting line-up (it's not sure) he will injure himself after 8 minutes.United 13 City 11.

 

[Riz]

Gundogan is injured and will only make his return in October or later. It's been a known fact since city bought him. So no he wouldn't have played the first two games and won't feature is the next couple.

That's great mate, aside from the fact I was talking about Yaya Toure.

 

[anant]

TBF, it's very tough to judge at this point. Both teams have far too many 1st team signings: City- Bravo, Stones, Gundogan , possibly Nolito; Utd- Zlatan, Pogba, Mkhi, Bailly.
Plus both have players who have injury problems, or are returning from long term injuries, although this favours us more as Shaw is the only one in our preferred XI who is coming back from injury, whereas Aguero, Kompany, Gundogan are injury prone.
But on the other hand, we have Zlatan, who isn't exactly young. No one can say how fast he'll recover when we have to play 2 games every week.
IMO, too soon to judge as we've seen just 2 games for either side in league, where Sterling and Fellaini have looked good/great, Stones has looked decent, Valencia a class apart.

 

[Chaky_Best]

I really think that you all overate United a bit too much, or maybe underate Chitteh a bit too.

Kompany when fit is far better than Smalling, Bailly and co. We terribly lack quality at United in central defense that I can't really see how we can think that Kompany is not better than ours. And even if he had a tough year, I still rate Otamendi very high, as I think that with the correct partner and defense, he could have been far better.

I also know that Sagna is average, but last year he was better than Valencia and Darmian. We can't judge on only 3 games, but based on last year half of the defense should be Citys.

As for the midfield, once again, I'm sorry but Gundogan, when fit will be an instant bonus for them. He's just class and for the defensive midfielder once again, if we compare Carrick / Schneiderlin to Fernando and Fernandinho, as for last year, I would play Fernandinho ahead of them all, only because he's been average and ours not so good.

With the current group of players (and after the second best player)

De Gea / Bravo

Sagna / Valencia
Kompany / Bailly
Smalling / Otamendi
Shaw / Kolarov

Fernandinho / Carrick
Pogba / Fellaini
Gundogan / Yaya

De Bruyne / Mkhitaryan
Ibra / Silva
Aguero / Martial

 

[carlosp]

Goal Keepers

De Gea v Caballero v Bravo (De Gea wins this)

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...avg_distribution_length/punches/catches#total

Centre Backs

Blind v Bailly v Stones v Otamendi (United Rule - Blind is excellent and Bailly is a monster)

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...defensive_errors/errors_leading_to_goal#total

Full Backs

Valencia v Sagna - Shaw v Clichy (United Rule) (Week 1) (Valencia and Shaw are just better than Sagna and Clichy)

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...s_suffered/fouls_committed/yellow_cards#total

Valencia v Zabaleta - Shaw v Kolarov (City Rule)(Week 2) (Zabaleta and Kolarov are just better than Valencia and Shaw)

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...ls_committed/yellow_cards/interceptions#total

DCM

Fellaini v Fernandinho - Herrera v Silva (City Rule)(Week 1) - Fellaini does very well but Silva helps City take it

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...s_suffered/fouls_committed/yellow_cards#total

De Bruyn v Fellaini v Fernandinho v Pogba v Silva (United Rule)(Week 2) - Fellaini in top form and Pogba helps United take it this week

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...s_suffered/fouls_committed/yellow_cards#total

Attacking Midfield and ST

Week 1 (United take this with three goals made by different players. City had a penalty and an OG awarded)

City (4-2-3-1) (starting Sterling, De Bruyn, Nolito and Aguero)
http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...s_suffered/fouls_committed/yellow_cards#total

United (4-2-3-1) (starting Mata, Rooney, Martial and Ibrahimovic)

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...s_suffered/fouls_committed/yellow_cards#total

Week 2 (City take this although Ibrahimovic scores two goals. Aguero scores two and City score four overall when Nolito subs on)

City (4-3-3) (starting Navas, Sterling and Aguero - Nolito Sub)

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...uls_suffered/fouls_committed/yellow_cards#avg

United (4-2-3-1) (starting Mata, Rooney, Martial and Ibrahimovic)

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...s_suffered/fouls_committed/yellow_cards#total

 

[carlosp]

That's great mate, aside from the fact I was talking about Yaya Toure.

Ah sorry, didn't see the highlight.

 

[podurban2]

Just shows Squawka is shite. Silva attacking score: 2.85, Fellaini attacking score: 7.45

 

[villain]

GK & Defence goes to United, it's not even up for debate really. City's best defender is still Kompany, who's always injured and he's what 30? 31? He's not going to improve. I wouldn't want to rely on Stones for defensive stability personally, I don't think that's his role. All of our defenders, except Valencia are still yet to hit their peak and therefore have the potential to improve even further.

Midfield - in Pogba, Fellaini, Carrick, Schneiderlin, Herrera we have much more options & variety than, Toure, Fernando, Fernandinho & relying on Gundogan to stay fit throughout the season.

Attack, City's is better, they are relying on Aguero & Silva to stay fit, but they have lots of quality in depth, plus players like Sane, KDB & Sterling with bags of potential to get better.
We're still insisting on playing Rooney, until we ease him out of our first XI and put in Mkhi, City's attack is better.

 

[carlosp]

Just shows Squawka is shite. Silva attacking score: 2.85, Fellaini attacking score: 7.45

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...s_suffered/fouls_committed/yellow_cards#total

I doubt Squawka would have got it wrong however I do see Silva had three chances created and a shot so yeah, don't know how they work that out. Also it's the average over two games.

Fellaini (just click name to see how the performance is calculated)
Bournemouth
http://epl.squawka.com/english-premier-league/14-08-2016/b-mouth-vs-man-utd/matches
Southampton
http://epl.squawka.com/english-premier-league/19-08-2016/man-utd-vs-s-hampton/matches

Silva (just click name to see how the performance is calculated)
Sunderland
http://epl.squawka.com/english-premier-league/13-08-2016/man-city-vs-sunderland/matches
Stoke
http://epl.squawka.com/english-premier-league/20-08-2016/stoke-vs-man-city/matches

Even Whoscored has Fellaini higher overall however I don't see an attacking score.

Fellaini
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...eague-2016-2017-Bournemouth-Manchester-United
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...eague-2016-2017-Manchester-United-Southampton

Silva
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...r-League-2016-2017-Manchester-City-Sunderland
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...remier-League-2016-2017-Stoke-Manchester-City