He's injury prone. gotta take that into account
United vs City squad comparison 2016/17
- Thread starter Riz
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Stones is Prem proven for sure, proven to be a shite defender so far but with good ball skills and bags of potential, and last season he was simply horrific.
Bailly is La Liga proven and proven to be a top defender.
@charlton66 has a very bizarre way of judging things. I'd also add that even when fit, Kompany hasn't been anywhere close to his best for over 2 years.
Bailly is La Liga proven and proven to be a top defender.
@charlton66 has a very bizarre way of judging things. I'd also add that even when fit, Kompany hasn't been anywhere close to his best for over 2 years.
The lack of mention of Mhkitaryan in this thread is criminal.
He will be huge for us, once Rooney gets dropped and Mata gets game time in the EL and cup matches.
He will be huge for us, once Rooney gets dropped and Mata gets game time in the EL and cup matches.
Erm, it's really not. De Gea is absolutely miles better than Bravo.
Is there anywhere in my statement that says this is not so. What it is saying is that Bravo is significantly better than Hart so it's closer than it was but De Gea is still better than both of them. How about I use numbers to make it easier. Dave 10/10 (best in the world), Bravo 9/10 (one of the best in the world), Hart 7/10 (good Premiership goalkeeper). Ten is closer to 9 than it is to 7. Hope this helps.
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Yep agreed, people keep saying that when fit he's the best centre back of either squad but when he has played recently I still think he's been poor. He looks really slow and laboured now the injuries have taken their toll.
Yaya also represented one thing I feel city maybe missing, the physical presence needed in the Premier League. Pogba and (can't believe I'm saying it) Fellaini in CM gives us a real presence and massive advantage for set pieces at both ends.
And anyone who has Sterling in their combined 11 should be thoroughly ashamed.
Don't forget about Nolito>MartialBravo better than DDG. Now I've read it all
.Stones has played about 80 Premiership games. The second half of last season he was awful even getting dropped but up to a little before Christmas he was pretty good and the season before very good. This is what I wrote yesterday.
Bailly has played 45 games in Liga in his entire career. I think he will be a very good player but IMHO its still a little early to say if he is going to be a top defender in England. Eliaquim Mangala was a top defender in Portugal, he has been awful in England. He obviously didn't make the transition. I don't think this is going to be the case with Bailly but for the time being I'm trying to reserve judgment.
As to Kompany, again I've addressed this numerous times. Personally, I'm not sure he's been fully fit for a long time. I think this season is his last chance. If he gets there he's in my team since in the initial premise I thought we were basing it on everybody being fit.
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It is very close in my opinion. You could argue either way. Where I believe we stand out is team morale/togetherness. You can just see that pogba and Zlatan brings something special to the squat which I think will be of great importance. The lads just seem to ve having fun.
City just seem to have too many primadonnas in Hart, Sterling, toure to take a few. Guardiola is used to winning 90% but I doubt he can keep that up and the question is how he will handle that. How long will Sterling perform. He usually plays really well when a new coach comes in but then he goes back to being lazy after a while.
City just seem to have too many primadonnas in Hart, Sterling, toure to take a few. Guardiola is used to winning 90% but I doubt he can keep that up and the question is how he will handle that. How long will Sterling perform. He usually plays really well when a new coach comes in but then he goes back to being lazy after a while.
you dont really count Bailly coz he has only played 2 games yet are willing to take stones who played the same at city ? Shaw is coming back from an injury yet Kompany is always injured and pretty error prone when he's not, positioning is terrible, seems you contradict yourself
Read the entire thread for heavens sake. Here is a sampling.
I also can't find anywhere where I say Kompany is error prone or his positioning is terrible. As far as Shaw and Kompany's injuries are concerned I chose both in my joint team because as I said earlier I thought the initial premise was to pick from a squad from both teams where all players were fully fit.
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General Goalkeeping ability
Why are people comparing Stones and Smalling? Stones vs Blind is better comparison. And based on last season Blind is miles ahead of Stones.
GK: De Gea
CB: Kompany is the best defender in Manchester when fit. But Smalling, Blind and Bailly are better than Stones, Otanmendi and whoever city's next best is
FB: Shaw is the best from a generally poor bunch
CM: Pogba and Fernandinho would be my first choice pairing. United have better quality in depth though
AM: Silva and De Bruyne by miles, no contest
WF: Nolito and Martial for my money. City have better depth
ST: Aguero ahead of Zlatan, but it is close
Not a perfect positional comparison by any means, and I am trying hard to not be biased.
Havent considered Gundogen or Miki cos neither have played enough to make a judgement on yet
GK: De Gea
CB: Kompany is the best defender in Manchester when fit. But Smalling, Blind and Bailly are better than Stones, Otanmendi and whoever city's next best is
FB: Shaw is the best from a generally poor bunch
CM: Pogba and Fernandinho would be my first choice pairing. United have better quality in depth though
AM: Silva and De Bruyne by miles, no contest
WF: Nolito and Martial for my money. City have better depth
ST: Aguero ahead of Zlatan, but it is close
Not a perfect positional comparison by any means, and I am trying hard to not be biased.
Havent considered Gundogen or Miki cos neither have played enough to make a judgement on yet
i never said you did that is what i said maybe you should try reading the post for heavens sake
Even when fit, that simply hasn't been the case. Some people make it out he's Nemanja Vidic, he's not. He had one stand out season, which was City's first title win.
So to summarize, first of all you talk about what I said (Bailly/Stones) and then you go on to make your own comment (Shaw/Kompany) and lastly you go back to talking about what I said again (in terms of contradicting myself). I think I've finally figured out what you meant, but your sentence construction could do with some work. Either way, I apologize for my misunderstanding.
He is the best in Manchester based on performances. He was instrumental to City's defense, and when ever he wasn't there they pretty much fell to pieces. All United's defenders (CBs) are a decent quality, and probably as a unit shade it over City. But on a pure 1:1 comparison, he is better than Smalling, Blind and Co at the moment. If Smalling had the calmness and passing of Blind, then he would be some player, but he hasn't. He is also often very rash and his decision making leaves a lot to be desired. If Blind had the power of Vidic, he also would be one hell of a CB. Too early to judge Bailly. The others are not even in the same class.
At last, somebody at least on a similar page. Personally, I feel as a unit City are better than United but as I have been hammered repeatedly for thinking this way, maybe it's me that needs to think again. On the other side of the coin, as Oliver Emberton said "If you're not pissing someone off, you probably aren't doing anything important."
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At least Kompany is a read leader in defense. I rate him highly, more than any of our CBs.
You are right, he is not Nemanja Vidic. He is however imo better than any other CB in Manchester (when fit). He has been performing at a higher level for longer than any other CB at either club, and if you don't agree with that you are entitled to your opinion
Its close between our midfield and city's, for the moment there is more questions on united's than city's, much like the 2006/07 season, united probably have to answer more questions than city, and reestablish themselves has a top team again, even though ironically city were just has bad lol.
The key for me for united getting the edge is 3 things
1 - our CM options fellaini, herrera, morgan step up to the plate to help Pogba - If Pogba really shows what many think he can do, and is allowed to be that old fashioned box to box midfielder, we going to have the edge of our shear size and strength from deep, just because of how much of a beast pogba could be, especially if the midfielders I mentioned break through and step up to the plate to help Pogba out, with carrick ageing, and bastian left out its vital the likes of fellaini, herrera and morgan all show they can come in and do their job. If we did not sign pogba, city would be better
2 - our strength in depth of our attacking options in midfield are key - if Memphis mata and Mhk break through also consistently, how many goals could these three provide? and that's not even mentioning the likes of Martial
3 - Martial and rooney - Our first choice LW and no10 are also key, its all about depth, at the moment I feel Martial and rooney should look over their shoulders with competition, as jose has said he has plans for Martial, and if Mata and Mhk both start hitting form, they could easily take rooney and martials place in the coming months, with Mkh, mata and martial supporting zlaten
City and united both could be relying on 2 players, city with aguero, united with Pogba. One player I want to see given that chance is rashford, but Mata, Mkha and rashford could see rooney and martial's places in a bit of trouble if they step up
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I like how United fans say Mkhit, yet, since Bravo is from La Liga, the best league in the world, DDG is automatically a better goalkeeper... Also, we should probably go back and see how many of the same people use to call Zlatan a tosser before he was signed.........
Even though Bravo has actually won stuff for club and country in the last 3 seasons, while DDG won only a FA CUP. Apparently, making a ton of mistakes gets unnoticed because of such freak saves.
Edit: Lets just pretend the euros never happened or your european campaign last season.
Even though Bravo has actually won stuff for club and country in the last 3 seasons, while DDG won only a FA CUP. Apparently, making a ton of mistakes gets unnoticed because of such freak saves.
Edit: Lets just pretend the euros never happened or your european campaign last season.
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In my mind, David de Gea is among the three best goalkeepers in the world, and is the absolute best when in peak form. Not winning much doesn't play into it -- anyone with two eyes can see he won us a lot of points the past few seasons.
I wouldn't trade de Gea for three Claudio Bravo's!
I wouldn't trade de Gea for three Claudio Bravo's!
De Gea
Valencia Bailly Stones Shaw
Gundogan, Pogba
Mkhitaryan De Bruyne Silva
Ibrahimovic
7 United players - 4 City players
United>City
End of discussion.
Valencia Bailly Stones Shaw
Gundogan, Pogba
Mkhitaryan De Bruyne Silva
Ibrahimovic
7 United players - 4 City players
United>City
End of discussion.
ever thought about the team Bravo was playing for at the time?
honestly some people.I thought you were on the wind up at first, surely you're not being serious with this post?
I would only really bother arguing with you on Icheanacho vs Rashford. Rashford played more games and scored goals in big games last season and was a sensation. I am not sure that Icheanacho has had a chance to be analysed enough to compare him fairly.
Also, I think the scores are slightly skewed as in some positions the comparison is not apples to apples (players don't play in the same positions) and also some players are artificially compared against weaker opposition in the list. Perhaps a better scoring system would be how much better an individual is than the counterpart in the same position, which is again subjective but if we applied it to your list as an example Pogba would be considerably better than any of the City Center Mid's and way better than Toure who is in massive decline.
Good list overall.
EDIT: I would also only rate/score the first team/starters because that is who will be on the pitch and peoples opinions of the subs are even more subjective and likely to be less accurate since they rarely play and would only skew the results even further.
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Just so you know, Bravos only played for Barca for 2 seasons. He only played league matches, so the average City fan has probably seen more of Ter Stegen than Bravo, Since he didn't play in the CL for Barca.
It helps that Barca have the best attack in the world, the best midfield in the world. One of the best defences in the world.
A 2minute youtube video does not make Bravo a better keeper than Degea, who has been the best keeper arguably in the league for 3 seasons running during the complete & utter clusterfeck that was the Moyes & Vg era.
Simply put, if Bravo was a world class goalkeeper or better then De gea or anywhere close to his level, Barcelona wouldn't be letting him go. De Gea is pretty much accepted worldwide as the second best goalkeeper around. Navas and Buffon are class, but aren't on de gea's level who is the only one who can challenge Neuer. Bravo? Not even close. Very good goalkeeper mind you, and fits Guardiola's style, but he's nowhere close to the top level.
Also don't start bringing what someone has won into it. The likes of O'Shea and Wes Brown are some of the most successful premier league footballers ever. Does that make them better then players like Gerrard? Obviously not.
You don't watch United much do you?
The squads are both impressive, i think it will come down to injuries and the tactics/experience of the managers, i hope we edge it due to Mourinho.
I think Overall the Quality is pretty equal. City`s squad seems a bit more balanced to me but we are looking at a lot of potential in our own.
What we do have what City does not is 3 Players who would make it into my personal world 11.
De Gea and Pogba for sure and arguably with Shaw the best LB.
What we do have what City does not is 3 Players who would make it into my personal world 11.
De Gea and Pogba for sure and arguably with Shaw the best LB.
Agreed. In a world XI we would atleast be represented, City would not.
Stones will be the best defender in the League pretty quickly for me. Expect a Pique like swift progression under Pep after being coached by a joke of a manager for the last 3 seasons.
His natural talent is absolutely outrageous.
His natural talent is absolutely outrageous.
People also dont seem to realise that Kompany is almost the antithesis of a Guardiola centreback. I wouldn't be surprised if a fit Kompany (not happening anyway) wouldn't even get into the starting eleven.
Guardiola is the sort of guy who would genuinely drop Kompany and play Fernandinho or Kolarov at CB instead.
Guardiola is the sort of guy who would genuinely drop Kompany and play Fernandinho or Kolarov at CB instead.
I think it'll come down to whether Mourinho's knowledge of the league will offset the burdens of Europa. I think it's going to be very close.
You are correct in my opinion. Which makes a thread like this so pointless. City and Utd will play very different styles. The star player in one team may well not suit another. For example Pep got rid of Ibra. It doesn't mean Ibra is not a top player, it just means he does not suit Peps style.
Goalkeeper - easily United
Defense - probably United. Around equal in RB position, United better in LB position providing that Shaw comes back to his best, I would take United's set of CBs over City's.
Midfield - City. Fernandinho - Gundogan - De Bruyne/Silva over Fellaini - Pogba - Rooney. Pogba is the best of the lot, but City has better players in the other two positions and I would say that the difference between De Bruyne and Rooney is bigger than between Pogba's and a fit Gundogan.
Attack - even. Aguero slightly better than Ibra, Martial better than Sterling, Silva around the same level as Miki.
If you consider the AMF as an attacker instead, then midfield goes for United but attack for City.
In the end, I think that it is quite close.
Defense - probably United. Around equal in RB position, United better in LB position providing that Shaw comes back to his best, I would take United's set of CBs over City's.
Midfield - City. Fernandinho - Gundogan - De Bruyne/Silva over Fellaini - Pogba - Rooney. Pogba is the best of the lot, but City has better players in the other two positions and I would say that the difference between De Bruyne and Rooney is bigger than between Pogba's and a fit Gundogan.
Attack - even. Aguero slightly better than Ibra, Martial better than Sterling, Silva around the same level as Miki.
If you consider the AMF as an attacker instead, then midfield goes for United but attack for City.
In the end, I think that it is quite close.
Yea, no...
Homer fans at their best.
Homer fans at their best.