Um.. well it's quite possible that it wasn't Rooney without any evidence to suggest it was him (outside of complete guesswork on here) so why would it be so crazy for some people to think it maybe wasn't him. A far likelier person to have done it would be the actual person who was identified in the criticism rather than Rooney imo.
James Ducker: "Utd squad left shocked by Mourinho’s public censure, personal nature of criticism...'
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Um.. well it's quite possible that it wasn't Rooney without any evidence to suggest it was him (outside of complete guesswork on here) so why would it be so crazy for some people to think it maybe wasn't him. A far likelier person to have done it would be the actual person who was identified in the criticism rather than Rooney imo.
Good stuff. Fergie's golden rule myth of never criticizing players in public bubble well and truly burst.
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Well we haven't played a game since tbf. If Rooney is dropped for the Leicester game then we know it's possible that he knew it was coming and reacted in advance. If he isn't, we know it's nonsense.
Here's another, jesus you don't have to look too hard for these:
Sir Alex Ferguson issues rare public criticism of Cristiano Ronaldo
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/apr/12/sir-alex-ferguson-slams-cristiano-ronaldo
Sir Alex Ferguson issues rare public criticism of Cristiano Ronaldo
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/apr/12/sir-alex-ferguson-slams-cristiano-ronaldo
Not responsibility wise, but in the sense they are in the top of their business.
Fair enough, I had a sense that SAF was inclined to do these things behind closed doors but clearly there are plenty of examples of him talking about players in the same way Mourinho has.
So we are left with the question of whether players are more molly-coddled now than they used to be, and less likely to react positively to it.
I guess ultimately time will tell if the players respond. For all we know this whole thing has been blown out of proportion anyway, we cant take one journalist's word for it that dressing room morale has been sunk by Mourinho's criticisms.
A convincing win tonight and another one against Leicester and this will all be completely forgotten about.
So we are left with the question of whether players are more molly-coddled now than they used to be, and less likely to react positively to it.
I guess ultimately time will tell if the players respond. For all we know this whole thing has been blown out of proportion anyway, we cant take one journalist's word for it that dressing room morale has been sunk by Mourinho's criticisms.
A convincing win tonight and another one against Leicester and this will all be completely forgotten about.
Bit different when Ferguson does it though given he was king of Old Trafford and (in the Ronaldo case at least) had a strong relationship with the player. Bit different for Mourinho given he has it all to prove and has only had a couple of months with the players so far.
Solid post. I am afraid you're right.
I'm glad. Mourinho was hired to do a job. He now needs to tell Rooney to feck off. Give him the Schweinsteiger treatment.
This is true, although it's also possible we could be crap in both fixtures for reasons that have nothing to do with Mourinho monstering players over minor errors. It's stuff like this that really brings home the importance of momentum. Lose a couple of games on the trot and inconsequential nonsense can build to a point where it has detrimental effect on the morale and performance of the team. So long as we keep on winning, far more serious transgressions by the manager won't matter at all (for example, Fergie's spectacular falling out with the likes of Ruud and Beckham) This could turn into a horrific death spiral or something we quickly forget about depending on the results of our next two games. Football, eh? Bloody hell.
Someone like Pep with such an impeccable record (both as player and manager) and the faux 'gentleman' image he has.. pretty much makes him the ideal candidate to go into a squad all guns blazing as no one dare question his authority.. even the media would struggle, let alone a Rooney. His stock as a manager is ridiculously high.
Mourinho on the other hand is damaged goods, he can't afford to take many punches.. he is a tarnished brand. It is why he has to be more subtle in the way he wages this war. This is why it is being done via proxy because it is easy to twist the narrative into him being some narcissistic psycho who has lost his edge as a manager. He is as Machiavellian as they come though and he has fought in bigger wars than this and more toxic situations. He also is managing at a club where the fans are notoriously loyal to managers and don't ever support the players if there is a conflict.
It is going to get ugly and he will suffer some blows in terms of results and losing some of the dressing room, but I think he will survive and we as a club will be better off for it. So yeah, Pep might not be Jesus Christ.. but he'd have got rid of Rooney even during the summer, he has that credit in the bank to pull off something outrageous like that.
Yeah first one that came to mind!
Here's one example of Rooney leaking
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/e...vulgar-shoe-public-urination-article-1.184212
If we were crap in both fixtures, i.e. lost them both, the media frenzy will go off the charts. At that point it hardly matters whether its about Pogba being played in the wrong position, or having the wrong partner, or Rooney, or Mourinho criticising players, or whatever. I mean, it will give us plenty to argue about, but the only person who really has to figure it out is Mourinho. what journalists are writing, or fans are saying on messageboards, will be the least of his concerns.
But yes, we do need some momentum, if only because winning is easier when the team is full of confidence.
Tell you what, here's a benign one: while the press focuses on Mourinho, they're not focusing on Rooney's performances & his United future.
Glad Jose is telling a few of these soft bellied millionaires a couple of home truths. Glad he is in charge he's the right man for us.
Rio trained hard and wanted to prove him wrong, our 'players' now cry to the media and feel shocked.
feck them off whoever did this leak shit.
Its crazy how little things like that can cause such spirals. Had the fixture list been kinder and kept us and City apart for another month or two that we may already have amassed enough confidence to take the loss on the chin and move on. Has to be a hangover from Moyes and LVG that we're almost expecting to fail and then when we do have a bad game we lose all shape and confidence.
Well playedIf you followed Rooney's career in the same way United fans have, on field, off field and various press leaks, add in Stretford, you would know it more than likely coming from him.
Like previous Rooney leaks, the article is there to paint him in a good light and the players Mourinho has criticised (Lingard, Mkhitaryan and Shaw), don't have the same clout or ego to go against the manager.
Pressure on the manager not to drop him.
In previous jobs Mourinho's task was made so much harder (thrice played a huge roll in his sacking) by player power. Here we have an underperforming England and United captain who has enjoyed untouchable status for a long long time at Club and International level. Suddenly he is under pressure with sections of the media turning on him and a manager that is figuring out that he might just be a spent force.
He's about to be dropped which could well see another player stake their claim for his spot in the team. Rashford could start banging them in and prove to have great chemistry with Zlatan. Mata might slot into the 10 role and provide the creativity we are craving. Herrera might fit into a system with Pogba that two 8's is better than an 8 and a 10. Then we might go on a bit of a run without him and he misses a few games... and a few more. Internationals come around and the press start asking "Should Rooney play if he's only had 2 starts and 5 sub appearances in the last 10 weeks?", all of a sudden he realises he's going to be looking for a new club next summer because he's been completely marginalised. What club is going to want him? Going to pay him a good wage? A high enough standard to maintain his England career? Promise him enough starts?
So he goes to the press and starts the dick swinging. "The squad aren't happy with Mourinho", "Mutiny in the dressing room", "Pressure builds on Mourinho as he loses the dressing room".
He could avoid that though... by finding a system which accomodates Rooney, play's to his strengths and masks his weaknesses.
Rooney can fec off
Are we sure that the journos didn't just pull this out of their azz? A random quote from an equipment guy or a groundsman and then they filled in the blanks? Journalistic standards have been slipping for years.
There isn't a system in existence that accommodates Rooney and maintains a league challenge, he's dead weight.
We can never be sure, but I doubt it. We had a lot of leaks with Moyes and Van Gaal that were later confirmed to be true, I don't think it's the kind of thing that journalists just make up without a proper source. Otherwise every club would have a load of made up leaks in the press all the time.
Damnit man we don't have time for this!
I must admit I am struggling to see how this story makes it harder to drop Rooney. It seems to me they are two quite separate issues.
I have no idea where the story came from, it might be from Rooney, or his people, or it might be from somewhere else. But the link between Mourinho's treatment of his players and his team selection, is pretty tenuous.
I have no idea where the story came from, it might be from Rooney, or his people, or it might be from somewhere else. But the link between Mourinho's treatment of his players and his team selection, is pretty tenuous.
Eh, this kind of stuff began with Rio to be honest in the Moyes season.
After media going all out blazing at Rooney I can believe it's Rooney. But I dont know what would Carrick gain from this if he's leaking.
Anyway instead of us thinking about football and how to lift the form this stuff comes out.
A mess.
Anyway instead of us thinking about football and how to lift the form this stuff comes out.
A mess.
I said this many times: our players are bunch of pussies. However, with the addition of Pogba, Ibra and Jose, this is changing.
Perhaps Jose has identified this and is toughening our pussies up, so they can become men again.
If Shaw is "offended" by Jose's assessment, he will have to toughen up, too. He is young and he must learn to get a thick skin. This is all part of becoming a man.
I hope Jose continues toughening up our bunch of pussies. I am sick and tired of our team getting bullied by less skilful players.
I will never forget how Vardy made our entire defence his b*tch. Smalling may as well have bent over for him. I also remember Blackett - he was another player who got shafted by Vardy. I think he even picked up a red card.
We do have mentally weak players - no question about this. This has been proved over the course of the last 3 years. But, I think in the next few months, this will change.
Our bunch of pussies will either adapt, or they will get transfer listed.
It was always said it was Rio on here for some reason, but that was pure speculation. When he went, the leaks still kept going.
That whole post contains not one shred of a reason for Mourinho to be more likely to pick Rooney on the basis of this article. If anything, he risks the exact opposite effect.
It's a shame Moyes didn't hold a grudge. Instead he made sure to hamstring the club, long after he was gone.
They're clearly capable of focussing on both issues at once, because that's what they're doing.
I was just reading it again and while the headline reference to Ferguson looks like a quote, there is nothing in the article itself to suggest the source him/herself actually compared Mourinho to Ferguson. It seems like it is Ducker who is comparing the two. Or it could be his editor or subeditor who has put the headline bit in quotation marks, leading to that impression.
Im not actually sure it can be taken as fact that the person who said this ever played under Ferguson.
Im not actually sure it can be taken as fact that the person who said this ever played under Ferguson.
If Mourinho had chosen not to marginalise Casillas and not turned half the Madrid media against him and the Spanish clique of the Real Madrid side, do you think he'd have had an easier life as manager of Real?
It was a combination of the old guard I was led to believe, Rio wasn't here but his mates still were so they could talk through one another.
Might be bollocks but this kind of stuff doesn't surprise me.
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