James Ducker: "Utd squad left shocked by Mourinho’s public censure, personal nature of criticism...'

[Adebesi]

If Mourinho had chosen not to marginalise Casillas and not turned half the Madrid media against him and the Spanish clique of the Real Madrid side, do you think he'd have had an easier life as manager of Real?

What has that got to do with this article?! If dropping Rooney causes him those same problems it would happen regardless of an article in The Telegraph about Mourinho shouting at his players.

 

[Pexbo]

What has that got to do with this article?! If dropping Rooney causes him those same problems it would happen regardless of an article in The Telegraph about Mourinho shouting at his players.

Read the whole conversation.

 

[Shamwow]

I'm not sure how putting your under pressure manager under more pressure when you are one of the biggest things he is under pressure for would backfire.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I am totally fine with Jose being tough on our players in any way he sees fit. Why the hell not after the last 3 years.

 

[Adebesi]

Read the whole conversation.

Ive read it all. I still cant see the connection.

 

[glazed]

This whole 'Publically attack the referee and then criticise your own staff' thing that Jose has going on in his post match doesn't really work at any level. I kind of assumed he'd stop doing it at United. Instead he kind of shrugs and says 'This is football' afterwards.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If Mourinho had chosen not to marginalise Casillas and not turned half the Madrid media against him and the Spanish clique of the Real Madrid side, do you think he'd have had an easier life as manager of Real?

Sorry but that's still too obtuse for me. Can you tell me, in simple terms, why Rooney bitching to Ducker about Mourinho being a big meanie makes his place in the team any more secure than if he'd kept schtum? Because that is what you're saying was his motivation, right?

 

[Pexbo]

Ive read it all. I still cant see the connection.

I'm saying that Rooney is putting pressure on Mourinho, he could face a season of trouble in the press and changing room or he could play to Rooney's tune, have certain sections of the press on his side, no talk of split changing rooms or losing the changing room and just deal with the different issue of getting the best out of Rooney or masking his deficiencies.

 

[Drz]

Here it is. With all names and surnames (which also include some sensitive lads there and most of the class of 92)

http://pre06.deviantart.net/8f74/th/pre/i/2011/190/f/1/i__ve_had_a_pally_by_666qqq666-d3linmp.jpg

That's cute. Nevilles figure prominently but seems like Scholes didn't have a pally. Interesting that Keane features. Also that it is their nicknames that is used.

 

[Adebesi]

I'm saying that Rooney is putting pressure on Mourinho, he could face a season of trouble in the press and changing room or he could play to Rooney's tune, have certain sections of the press on his side, no talk of split changing rooms or losing the changing room and just deal with the different issue of getting the best out of Rooney or masking his deficiencies.

So the article is like a warning, a shot across the bow? He's saying, dont mess with me or there will be more of this to come, that kind of thing?

Yes, I can see that.

Pretty tenuous though, hardly a smoking gun. Youd have to already believe it was Rooney to make that case.

 

[Pexbo]

Sorry but that's still too obtuse for me. Can you tell me, in simple terms, why Rooney bitching to Ducker about Mourinho being a big meanie makes his place in the team any more secure than if he'd kept schtum? Because that is what you're saying was his motivation, right?

See above.

 

[.Rossi]

That's cute. Nevilles figure prominently but seems like Scholes didn't have a pally. Interesting that Keane features. Also that it is their nicknames that is used.

Keane was notorious for training with massive hangovers

 

[Someone]

I hate leaks as much as the next guy but we shouldn't forget that mourinho has a history of being a massive twat and that criticizing players in public is never a good idea.

 

[2cents]

Sorry but that's still too obtuse for me. Can you tell me, in simple terms, why Rooney bitching to Ducker about Mourinho being a big meanie makes his place in the team any more secure than if he'd kept schtum? Because that is what you're saying was his motivation, right?

You've asked for a plausible explanation. I find it quite plausible that Rooney knows that Mourinho intends to end his time at this club. The 'not an 8 or a 6' comments over the summer would have been the first sign, the obviously orchestrated anti-Rooney press campaign on Monday just the latest. So Rooney's not trying to keep his place under Mourinho - rather he's trying to undermine Mourinho so that (a) Mourinho is forced out before him, or (b) convince any potential future employers that Mourinho was the cause of his current woes at United.

I have no proof for this, but surely you can admit it's 'remotely plausible'?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm saying that Rooney is putting pressure on Mourinho, he could face a season of trouble in the press and changing room or he could play to Rooney's tune, have certain sections of the press on his side, no talk of split changing rooms or losing the changing room and just deal with the different issue of getting the best out of Rooney or masking his deficiencies.

That's bananas. There's no kind of pressure Rooney could put on him (bar kidnapping a child) that would outweigh the pressure that would ensue as a result of dropped points from picking a deliberately weakened team.

 

[Pexbo]

So the article is like a warning, a shot across the bow? He's saying, dont mess with me or there will be more of this to come, that kind of thing?

Yes, I can see that.

Pretty tenuous though, hardly a smoking gun. Youd have to already believe it was Rooney to make that case.

Exactly that. Rooney knows he's spent and he sees trouble coming (already knows he's been dropped for Leicester apparently), he's preparing the PR campaign. Does Mourinho have the energy/mental state for this bullshit again?


Hopefully it'll be a swift case of Woodward backing him and Rooney being Schweinsteigered.

 

[pocco]

See above.

The more likely scenario is that Rooney or his agent caught wind that it was Mourinho or one of his guys talking to the media and fueling the fire, leading to Rooneys retaliation.

What you have said is a massive gamble that will only result in him being flogged at the next opportunity.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You've asked for a plausible explanation. I find it quite plausible that Rooney knows that Mourinho intends to end his time at this club. The 'not an 8 or a 6' comments over the summer would have been the first sign, the obviously orchestrated anti-Rooney press campaign on Monday just the latest. So Rooney's not trying to keep his place under Mourinho - rather he's trying to undermine Mourinho so that (a) Mourinho is forced out before him, or (b) convince any potential future employers that Mourinho was the cause of his current woes at United.

I have no proof for this, but surely you can admit it's 'remotely plausible'?

Come on. That's really not plausible. Van Gaal stunk the place out for two years. There's no flipping way Rooney is already playing a long game based on his career after Mourinho gets the sack. Considering his age, it matters to him (and Carrick) most of all that Mourinho's tenure is a success.

 

[Manny]

I must admit I am struggling to see how this story makes it harder to drop Rooney. It seems to me they are two quite separate issues.

Theres lots of different ways this could play out.

If Mourinho drops Rooney of the back of this story then it gives the story credence. Now not only is the team 6 points behind City in September, but Mourinho has lost the dressing room and we have a huge crisis on our hands.

Or say Rooney gets dropped, questioned will be asked if it was purely due to loss of form or a behind the scenes power struggle between Mourinho and Rooney. It will hold off the "Mourinho believes Rooney is past it" stories and buy him some time.

Or he could frame a story where he was dropped for looking out for the youngsters (Shaw) in the team. Now Mourinho is a cnut, not giving youth a chance and he'll have the fans on his back.

The point is, he was on his way to permanently being benched and now he's resorting to the media to cling on and make the task of dropping him that much harder.

 

[pocco]

You've asked for a plausible explanation. I find it quite plausible that Rooney knows that Mourinho intends to end his time at this club. The 'not an 8 or a 6' comments over the summer would have been the first sign, the obviously orchestrated anti-Rooney press campaign on Monday just the latest. So Rooney's not trying to keep his place under Mourinho - rather he's trying to undermine Mourinho so that (a) Mourinho is forced out before him, or (b) convince any potential future employers that Mourinho was the cause of his current woes at United.

I have no proof for this, but surely you can admit it's 'remotely plausible'?

To add to that, Mourinho made a comment about himself 'being able to pass the ball well without pressure', basically downplaying Rooneys passing ability. I think this may have ruffled his feathers because you can tell that Rooney thinks he's better than he is at passing and basically prided himself as a midielder on that long ball to the right.

 

[2cents]

Come on. That's really not plausible. Van Gaal stunk the place out for two years. There's no flipping way Rooney is already playing a long game based on his career after Mourinho gets the sack. Considering his age, it matters to him (and Carrick) most of all that Mourinho's tenure is a success.

Van Gaal stunk the place out while guaranteeing Rooney's place in the team. Rooney's on what, £300,000 per week until 2019, you really think he gives a shite about the state of the team over that?

Over the summer he started talking about a contract extension and ending his career at United. However all the signs are there that Mourinho will be phasing him out. The midfield comments, the signing of three players to cover every potential position Rooney could play in. The press campaign on Monday. Rooney and his agent know he could be forced out by next summer, so why not cover their arses?

Again no proof, but given the timing, I find this a more plausible theory than Carrick, Lingard or the tea-lady being responsible.

 

[Catt]

Really don't see much wrong with the comments made by Mourinho post Watford. It's not a big deal and hopefully Shaw doesn't think so either.

 

[Pexbo]

That's bananas. There's no kind of pressure Rooney could put on him (bar kidnapping a child) that would outweigh the pressure that would ensue as a result of dropped points from picking a deliberately weakened team.

Rooney has been backed into a corner here. He's not a "6 or and 8", "he's no good under pressure" ect. The majority of fans and journalists now know he's a spent force so what options does Rooney have left? His legs have gone, his touch is non-existent and this dropping deep and playing benign long balls isn't fooling Mourinho. You really think he's just going to quietly accept that it's time he was dropped to the bench without trying to make some sort of play in the press and put pressure on Mourinho to keep trying him?

 

[JackXX]

If it's not linked to Rooney there's nothing stopping him as club captain to shut it down with a statement saying it's not acceptable or it's a load of bollocks.

 

[TwoSheds]

Nail the leaky twat to the wall Jose.

 

[rpitchfo]

I don't understand how rooney thinks he can win this fight..whatever tactics he uses. The only chance he has is if he wasn't overweight, slow and had a first touch. If that was the case we wouldn't be having this conversation cos he would be in the team.

Anyone who has spent 5 minutes learning about football can see Rooney cant play football to a competitive standard anymore.

His response? To attack the person responsible for picking him?

He's gone in January. He doesn't even realise he hasn't got a card to play.

 

[rpitchfo]

I don't understand how rooney thinks he can win this fight..whatever tactics he uses. The only chance he has is if he wasn't overweight, slow and had a first touch. If that was the case we wouldn't be having this conversation cos he would be in the team.

Anyone who has spent 5 minutes learning about football can see Rooney cant play football to a competitive standard anymore.

His response? To attack the person responsible for picking him?

He's gone in January. He doesn't even realise he hasn't got a card to play.

Add to this he's now of no use to Woodward from an image perspective now we have pog and zlatan. I'm so hopeful that he will be gone in a few months and the Rooney circus will finally come to an end.

 

[izzydiggler]

Well whomever it was must be completely brain dead - Mourinho is going nowhere for at least 2 years, he's not going to change his ways, so unless it was a play to be sold, they cannot hope to achieve anything other than a really uncomfortable few weeks.

If they were after sympathy or a showing of public support, they've really misread the mood of the fans. As others have noted, it's promising seeing that Mourinho is trying to add some steel to the squad and hopefully he's ruffling those who are just far too comfortable, despite 3 years of mediocrity/underachievement - hopefully they'll be shipped out very soon.

Goes to show what a big job he has - the club has become stagnant and needs a kick up the arse...a teething period was always going to be likely, so recent results don't concern me too much.

 

[RedTiger]

Rooney has been backed into a corner here. He's not a "6 or and 8", "he's no good under pressure" ect. The majority of fans and journalists now know he's a spent force so what options does Rooney have left? His legs have gone, his touch is non-existent and this dropping deep and playing benign long balls isn't fooling Mourinho. You really think he's just going to quietly accept that it's time he was dropped to the bench without trying to make some sort of play in the press and put pressure on Mourinho to keep trying him?

feck the avowed evertonion.

 

[wr8_utd]

Sorry but that's still too obtuse for me. Can you tell me, in simple terms, why Rooney bitching to Ducker about Mourinho being a big meanie makes his place in the team any more secure than if he'd kept schtum? Because that is what you're saying was his motivation, right?

I am just not getting the logic for Rooney leaking this to the media. Jose has defended him, spared him from criticism and played him every game and retained him as captain. He really has no reason to go bitching to the media when he knows how Jose would react to that.

 

[Dumbat12]

I don't understand how rooney thinks he can win this fight..whatever tactics he uses. The only chance he has is if he wasn't overweight, slow and had a first touch. If that was the case we wouldn't be having this conversation cos he would be in the team.

Anyone who has spent 5 minutes learning about football can see Rooney cant play football to a competitive standard anymore.

His response? To attack the person responsible for picking him?

He's gone in January. He doesn't even realise he hasn't got a card to play.

Well, he survived two managers and his leak strategy proved very effective before. He probably thinks that Mourinho is like Van Gaal.

Anyway, I'm with Mourinho all the way. There is simply no better manager than him, and even if you say that Guardiola is somehow better than him, that's irrelevant since we can't get Guardiola.

 

[wr8_utd]

Van Gaal stunk the place out while guaranteeing Rooney's place in the team. Rooney's on what, £300,000 per week until 2019, you really think he gives a shite about the state of the team over that?

Over the summer he started talking about a contract extension and ending his career at United. However all the signs are there that Mourinho will be phasing him out. The midfield comments, the signing of three players to cover every potential position Rooney could play in. The press campaign on Monday. Rooney and his agent know he could be forced out by next summer, so why not cover their arses?

Again no proof, but given the timing, I find this a more plausible theory than Carrick, Lingard or the tea-lady being responsible.

Yes, he really does. Say what you want about the guy but he's a winner and he wants to win. You saw the drive in the cup final when we were losing and he's always had it. He's a serial winner and he even questioned our ambition at a time we used to challenge for the league. Sure he makes shit loads of money but there is no way he would rather sit on his huge paycheck than win stuff at this club.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Because he is now under the limelight for his poor performances. LVG/Moyes didn't drop Wayne either, didn't stop leaks from happening them.

I'm not saying it definitely is Wayne, but can't think of anyone else since the SAF days to do that.

Because it came out the day after the media slaughtered him (for the first time) with many reports, possibly fed by Mourinho, suggesting he is about to be dropped. That and his known links to this particular journalist and a general view that Rooney is implicated in previous similar leaks.

We don't know what's happening behind closed doors. How popular is Rooney among the other players? How much influence does he have? It's easy for us armchair critics to say that we'd bench Rooney immediately if we were in charge, but a decision like that is not something you pull over-night. A character like Rooney has to be given a chance first, before benching him. And even then hell may break lose in the dressing room. After reading Fergie's biography, I have no doubt in my mind that a player like Rooney could cause a shitstorm for whoever is in charge. Mourinho has just arrived, so he needs to be careful before making big decisions. But if he knows deep inside that Rooney needs to go, then frustration might get the best of him during half-time talks. Who knows how much shit Rooney has gotten in the dressing room?

But unlike Moyes and Van Gaal, Mourinho has a golden opportunity now. With Zlatan, Pogba and Mkhitaryan arriving in the same window and Martial and Rashford stepping up just months prior, there has arguably never been a stronger argument for benching Rooney. All that is left to do now, is to convince the public that Rooney isn't a CM(his final hope). And Mourinho has already done that in an interview! So now that the world can see that it's basically Pogba vs Rooney, the answer is there for everyone with half a brain-cell: Rooney must be benched. Checkmate.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rooney don't start against Leicester. Regardless of the current leak. Hell, Mourinho may already have notified Rooney that he's not gonna start. That could also be what triggered the leak(speculation, obviously).

Yeah, makes sense - thanks for explaining.

 

[kouroux]

I am just not getting the logic for Rooney leaking this to the media. Jose has defended him, spared him from criticism and played him every game and retained him as captain. He really has no reason to go bitching to the media when he knows how Jose would react to that.

Because there is so much going on behind the scenes that we don't know of. Mourinho could be publicly backing Rooney but at the same time telling him that he's getting his last chances to impress him. Rooney feeling a little scared for his starting place could explain the leaks (not saying it's 100% him btw).

 

[2cents]

I am just not getting the logic for Rooney leaking this to the media. Jose has defended him, spared him from criticism and played him every game and retained him as captain. He really has no reason to go bitching to the media when he knows how Jose would react to that.

Mourinho has criticised - even made fun of - his passing and his chance of being deployed in the position in which Rooney has been lobbying for over a year to play in.

Mourinho has brought in three players to cover all three positions Rooney could plausibly play in.

It was all over the press on Monday that Rooney faces the chop against Leicester.

Mourinho's not stupid, he was never gonna come into the job all guns blazing against a figure as embedded in the club as Rooney.

Yes, he really does. Say what you want about the guy but he's a winner and he wants to win. You saw the drive in the cup final when we were losing and he's always had it. He's a serial winner and he even questioned our ambition at a time we used to challenge for the league. Sure he makes shit loads of money but there is no way he would rather sit on his huge paycheck than win stuff at this club.

Agree to disagree on this. Rooney's normally dependable enough to put a shift in on the pitch whatever his form, I'll give him that. But I see no reason to believe he values the club's progress over his own personal interests, certainly not when they appear to be in conflict with each other.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Really don't see much wrong with the comments made by Mourinho post Watford. It's not a big deal and hopefully Shaw doesn't think so either.

Supposedly it's not just the comments made in public, but also what he said privately to some of the players. But we can't know what was said there and I doubt it was anything they didn't deserve, honestly. Other reports state that the players (or at least most of them) like Mourinho and are behind him

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

Rooney is the biggest cancer to this team and has been for a long time. He's a horrible little kent that needs to get sold immediately.

 

[clarkydaz]

this paragraph from the melachins guy is quite chilliing

The problem Mourinho has now is a problem both van Gaal and Moyes were all too familiar with. The England man has strong allies in the press and he's not the kind of guy you want in your dressing room disillusioned or marginalized. The sanctity of the dressing room is not respected, repeated leaks make their way into the media and for any manager who is struggling for results, that is not a luxury you can afford. So much has been done to accommodate Rooney, bumper contracts, captains armband, incredible patience with mediocrity. At any other top club, he would have been sold at worst, two years ago. The fact he's still at Old Trafford says as much about how poorly the club has been run behind the scenes for so long and the fact there is still so much left to do

 

[Lentwood]

We need a bit of nastiness, it's not a social club we are the UKs most successful football team! If you can't hack a little bit of criticism from the manager it is no wonder some of them crumble when the pressure is on out on the pitch!

 

[MDFC Manager]

this paragraph from the melachins guy is quite chilliing

Unfortunately for us, the current Mourinho doesn't have the media in his pocket. Far from it in fact. A battle in the media won't end well for him, and consequently for us.

Knowing Rooney's luck, he'll probably bag a new contract £500k to 2025.