Yeah. I mean I think Mourinho succeeded at Real Madrid, because he did pip Pep and that great Barca team to a league title and did so in record fashion, but Real's 2012-2013 season was terrible.Yeah, it's an interesting one because he's still had success since then...but Real was the first time where he went to a club, and in his time there lost more league titles than he won. It's hard to be too harsh on him because he was up against one of the greatest teams of all-time, and he remains the only person to have denied Guardiola a league title, but it was the first signs of some cracks.
He did well to get Chelsea back to winning the title in 14/15, but even then there were still some problems and that Chelsea side was nowhere near as solid and consistent as the 04-07 team.
I was hoping last season was a blip (still am), and that this would serve as the job where Mourinho would revitalise himself and make a massive statement, and I still think that's possible, but a pessimist could argue he's had his best days as a manager and that he's struggling to keep up with the changing nature of the game. I hope that's not the case...but he really needs to improve us.
It's still early, we could still win it.Well we aren't winning the title so in a way we are done with this season. He's probably got a tough task even making the top 4. If he misses that mark maybe he gets fired. You never know in the EPL obviously, but it isn't looking good at the moment.
Not sure I follow the logic. With Jose's track record and having inherited a load of shite (as confirmed today) he surely would be given at least the same time as LVG?Definitely people saying that in the match day.
I don't know where I stand personally but truth is Utd fans will have less patience then ever before. People defending will simply recycle the same rhetorics from the Moyes and LVG era and they only last so long.
There is no way fans will be as patient with Jose as they were with LVG.
Zlatan is done. People act as if he's not a 35 year old who spent last few years in France. He can bully Sunderland level teams but that's about it. Crazy that Mourinho actually signed him, I never understood that. His ego will only bring problems when Mourinho realizes that benching him is the only way forward.This forum say JM is done, Zlatan is done, Pogba is the worst signing. Patient was better during SAF's time here.
We don't have the time to be patient, look at the teams around us. Everyone is taking strides, what are we doing? Trying to outdo ourselves each season in how much we can spend but still move backwards.This forum say JM is done, Zlatan is done, Pogba is the worst signing. Patient was better during SAF's time here.
People, including you, jump into conclusion so quickly. The majority of the people are not angry at us losing, they are angry at the way we lose. It's not a battle, it's not a passionate loss, which we can take on the chin. It's a rather bloodless surrender. As for Jose being done, sure it's way too early to say this. The appropriate statement should " Has Jose began yet and will he"It's generally best to stay off all internet platforms after United lose, you don't see much rational conversation.
I think the game would have been completely different had we not been chasing the game from 2-0. I don't think either goal had anything to do with the way Mourinho selected his first XI. They were just brainfarts from single players.The midfield looks disjointed. There is absolutely no balance, the team has absolutely no idea what to do with the ball.
Daley Blind is an able LB. Lingard is a decent winger. Jose chooses to start Fellaini when there is an able DM in the team.
Anyone wanting to rule off a manager 8 games into a season is seriously lacking patience. The season he had with his prior club is immaterial when you're reminded of his CV. He was never going to come in and magically get us clicking with the right X straight away.But it was LAST season. That, alongside this abysmal start, does seem to indicate that Mourinho is no longer the man he once was.
Not even close to being done. Go back 7 weeks and most on here loved him and the goals he scored. You are not done 7 weeks later.Zlatan is done. People act as if he's not a 35 year old who spent last few years in France. He can bully Sunderland level teams but that's about it. Crazy that Mourinho actually signed him, I never understood that. His ego will only bring problems when Mourinho realizes that benching him is the only way forward.
Klopp and Conte have far more support in-place to allow them to do their jobs. Klopp and Conte are first team coaches. The depth of responsibility for Mourinho at United cannot be compared to what Klopp and Conte have to do for their clubs. Additionally, the structure surrounding Klopp and Conte is much more conducive for a coach to come in and hit the ground running. Mourinho's stepping in to a completely broken organizational structure and he has to fix that shit first.Klopp and Conte are doing far better under either the same or worse circumstances. If I read another post claiming how much worse Jose has here after spending 90M on one player, I'm going to have to tell you to feck off.
If City fans are criticising Pep already, that would be news to me. I see a degree of coherence and something new with what Conte had to implement, so I can understand the growing pains. I really don't see what Jose is doing differently that we need to be so patient with. He has had excellent investment, bought his first choice players at every position and still he has us playing wank football while looking helpless against any half good team we played this season.Chelsea are like 5 points ahead of us. In October. A month ago Chelsea fans were talking about how shit Conte was. City fans are doing the same now with Pep despite being top of the league. When Klopp first came in there was a stat going around about how he was doing worse than Rodgers.
I know it's hard but we really need to relax. We haven't even played ten league games yet.
This rings true for me more than any negative comment about Mou. I do think Mou has plateaued but too many players at this point are damaged goods and they clearly cannot handle playing for United, especially for a United that's trying to get back to the halcyon days.I'm of the opinion that many of our players are done. Our squad stinks of mediocrity.
So does every other team...Does that mean every other manager is done..I see Chelsea above us in the table with City at the top. I don't mind a thrashing on an off day but we've looked helpless in 2/3 big games so far this season while parking the bus in the other one to escape with a draw. Its not like we are beating the teams we are supposed to beat either.
What made you think I'm jumping into any conclusions quickly?!People, including you, jump into conclusion so quickly. The majority of the people are not angry at us losing, they are angry at the way we lose. It's not a battle, it's not a passionate loss, which we can take on the chin. It's a rather bloodless surrender. As for Jose being done, sure it's way too early to say this. The appropriate statement should " Has Jose began yet and will he"
I think he also lost his first cup final there too. Simeone's atletico outclassed his star studded Madrid in the Copa final. Cup finals and big games were pretty much his speciality, but that ended there too. You could forgive him for losing to that Barcelona team, but that wasn't just it.Yeah, it's an interesting one because he's still had success since then...but Real was the first time where he went to a club, and in his time there lost more league titles than he won. It's hard to be too harsh on him because he was up against one of the greatest teams of all-time, and he remains the only person to have denied Guardiola a league title, but it was the first signs of some cracks.
He did well to get Chelsea back to winning the title in 14/15, but even then there were still some problems and that Chelsea side was nowhere near as solid and consistent as the 04-07 team.
I was hoping last season was a blip (still am), and that this would serve as the job where Mourinho would revitalise himself and make a massive statement, and I still think that's possible, but a pessimist could argue he's had his best days as a manager and that he's struggling to keep up with the changing nature of the game. I hope that's not the case...but he really needs to improve us.
I thought it was a bad appointment before we made it, I wouldn't have come to that decision based upon just a couple of months at United. He's never been a revolutionary tactician but his strength was always in his confidence in what he does and the way he's been able to get his players to follow his instructions with such conviction. How can his confidence, or his players in him, be as unshakable now given how disastrously it went last year? His style of football, particularly in big games, and his conduct means he's never going to get much time unless he's winning and currently we're miles off, it will need a big turnaround for us to make top 4 never mind win the title.No one is serious re: Jose is done (I hope!)
Bottom line for me is our club needs a massive rebuild and I genuinely think Jose Mourinho is the best man to undertake it - the man I have most faith in to do so.I thought it was a bad appointment before we made it, I wouldn't have come to that decision based upon just a couple of months at United. He's never been a revolutionary tactician but his strength was always in his confidence in what he does and the way he's been able to get his players to follow his instructions with such conviction. How can his confidence, or his players in him, be as unshakable now given how disastrously it went last year? His style of football, particularly in big games, and his conduct means he's never going to get much time unless he's winning and currently we're miles off, it will need a big turnaround for us to make top 4 never mind win the title.
Wait wut? Weren't we making fun of Roman sacking coaches left and right while saddling managers with players they don't want because their CEO wanted to buy them? Same with Liverpool and their transfer committee and suddenly we are the broken organization? This is even forgetting the fact that Klopp had a relative pittance in transfer money compared to what Jose has and he started with players of the caliber of fecking Mignolet and Moreno while Jose inherited a squad with players like De Gea, Martial and Shaw and went onto add Pogba and Zlatan to the mix.Klopp and Conte have far more support in-place to allow them to do their jobs. Klopp and Conte are first team coaches. The depth of responsibility for Mourinho at United cannot be compared to what Klopp and Conte have to do for their clubs. Additionally, the structure surrounding Klopp and Conte is much more conducive for a coach to come in and hit the ground running. Mourinho's stepping in to a completely broken organizational structure and he has to fix that shit first.
Would you put money down on it if you were a gambler? If you would, then good for you; we need some optimism around here. Otherwise i think you agree with me.It's still early, we could still win it.
True, you could argue that in recent years, Simeone's done a much better job of being a Mourinho-type coach than Mourinho himself has. The 2010/11 5-0 defeat was a big one because it was the first time I remembered a Mourinho side being completely and utterly demolished on the big occasion, but he managed to bounce back in 2011/12 with the title win.I think he also lost his first cup final there too. Simeone's atletico outclassed his star studded Madrid in the Copa final. Cup finals and big games were pretty much his speciality, but that ended there too. You could forgive him for losing to that Barcelona team, but that wasn't just it.
Didnt you hear the boos at HT today??If City fans are criticising Pep already, that would be news to me. I see a degree of coherence and something new with what Conte had to implement, so I can understand the growing pains. I really don't see what Jose is doing differently that we need to be so patient with. He has had excellent investment, bought his first choice players at every position and still he has us playing wank football while looking helpless against any half good team we played this season.
I can understand someone being optimistic if there is a reason to do so and Jose has so far not inspired any degree of confidence from me.
There are a lot of rational comments which might be worded a bit more aggressively. Doesn't mean that the substance is not rational.What made you think I'm jumping into any conclusions quickly?!
I kind of agree with @gaucho_10 . I watched him a bit last season at PSG and despite his impressive goal return I was never really that impressed with his general play. To come to us, a far worse team than the PSG, I didn't see it turning out well at all and still don't.Not even close to being done. Go back 7 weeks and most on here loved him and the goals he scored. You are not done 7 weeks later.
You don't understand signing him? Look at his stats, France or not. He's been great wherever he's been.
All I read in the summer was people saying that this was a good thing, and that Jose would thrive.Klopp and Conte have far more support in-place to allow them to do their jobs. Klopp and Conte are first team coaches. The depth of responsibility for Mourinho at United cannot be compared to what Klopp and Conte have to do for their clubs. Additionally, the structure surrounding Klopp and Conte is much more conducive for a coach to come in and hit the ground running. Mourinho's stepping in to a completely broken organizational structure and he has to fix that shit first.
I know you didnt ask me, but personally I wouldn't put any less money on us than say, Liverpool.Would you put money down on it if you were a gambler? If you would, then good for you; we need some optimism around here. Otherwise i think you agree with me.
I honestly would. But I have terrible luck and we would probably lose because of that....Would you put money down on it if you were a gambler? If you would, then good for you; we need some optimism around here. Otherwise i think you agree with me.
They played upto their talent level in his first year and now they are exceeding it. Can you say that we are playing to our talent level right now? I mean if the players are good, the blame rests with the manager right?How well did they do under Klopp in their first season?
Woodward is awful when it comes to football related club management. Bending over for Mendes who added Falcao to Di Maria deal and now bending over for pizza boy to get Pogba. Two really big signings came at a huge price.Not even close to being done. Go back 7 weeks and most on here loved him and the goals he scored. You are not done 7 weeks later.
You don't understand signing him? Look at his stats, France or not. He's been great wherever he's been.
Which is completely fair enough, I couldn't think of many other options in the summer given Guardiola and Klopp were gone, and I obviously hope you're right but he's not done anything thus far (obviously it's very early) to alleviate my concerns.Bottom line for me is our club needs a massive rebuild and I genuinely think Jose Mourinho is the best man to undertake it - the man I have most faith in to do so.
I think the lack of playing time is a problem. No national team football, rested in Europa League. Zlatan is a player that needs to play games and I think once he get more games there won't be a problem if the midfield start to play better. Without a midfield, Zlatan is no use at 35.I kind of agree with @gaucho_10 . I watched him a bit last season at PSG and despite his impressive goal return I was never really that impressed with his general play. To come to us, a far worse team than the PSG, I didn't see it turning out well at all and still don't.
That said, I agree it was worth a shot signing him considering he was free and all, but I didn't have high expectations.
Sorry but I seriously can't understand what you're saying. I'm personally a little frustrated with Jose's set up from the start (I posted this fact in the pre-match thread) but I think there has understandably been a massive overreaction. It's 9 Premier League games in, everyone will calm down soon.There are a lot of rational comments which might be worded a bit more aggressively. Doesn't mean that the substance is not rational.
Again, the vast, vast majority do not think we should sack Mourinho. But it is interesting to discuss how he's done so far and how he's arguably changed as a manager, to an extent.Last year it was about how sacking LVG. Now it's about Mourinho. OK then what? We keep sacking managers every year, meaning the squad is perpetually in transition with a manager coming in every year. For better or for worse, we chose Mourinho. It's time we stick by that decision. Or at the very least not freak out after 9 games!
All the other top teams in the PL bar Arsenal change managers and players constantly. They are like a revolving door as well.Last year it was about how sacking LVG. Now it's about Mourinho. OK then what? We keep sacking managers every year, meaning the squad is perpetually in transition with a manager coming in every year. For better or for worse, we chose Mourinho. It's time we stick by that decision. Or at the very least not freak out after 9 games!
Just need him to be utterly ruthless now...Which is completely fair enough, I couldn't think of many other options in the summer given Guardiola and Klopp were gone, and I obviously hope you're right but he's not done anything thus far (obviously it's very early) to alleviate my concerns.
