I hope it's nothing like the 'Curse of the Bambino' or the 'Curse of the Billy Goat', where they waited decades until they won.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Billy_Goat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Bambino
Anyone else feeling desensitised to our decline?
- Thread starter AXVnee7
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Billy_Goat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Bambino
Do you understand the literal meaning of decline as in to decrease or deteriorate? The opposite of an incline which is to rise or become greater. This conversation is becoming very hard work. Whether it's part of a transitional phase or not (which would be near impossible to quantify without a crystal ball), there's still been a marked decline in standards.
There's a big difference between when Fergie took over, and the situation Jose is in now. Fergie took charge of a club that hadn't won the title for decades. Jose has taken over following a couple decades of dominance, followed by 3 barren years. There's clearly been a decline from then till now.
This thread isn't so much about discussing the decline, because that has already happened for the large part hence why I mentioned we seemed to have stabilised (although there is potential for this to get worse - it seems unlikely). It just so happens we are a couple of levels below where we used to be. Yes I agree we are in a transition period right now. It's not the same as when Fergie took over though.
I think football is this country is on the way downhill as entertainment despite the bigger money and "better" players flocking into the league.
When you go abroad and see the passion some of those fans show, the atmosphere they create, it genuinely makes me jealous that we can't do that. Now I know it's the trade off for our massive success in merchandising and making our club a tourist site but it gets me down.
When you go abroad and see the passion some of those fans show, the atmosphere they create, it genuinely makes me jealous that we can't do that. Now I know it's the trade off for our massive success in merchandising and making our club a tourist site but it gets me down.
You're quite right about that.
I suppose the years we finished 2nd or 3rd after winning the title were also years spent "in decline"?
Support the club, through good times and bad. Never feel apathetic, even when play is poor and results are frustrating. That's what football is all about.
At least we had some good football during that time. I remember watching 45 minutes of a game of yours last season, wow, that was soul-crushing. Reminded me of the Hodgson days; that's really when watching football is no longer worth it.
In the main, during the worst of Moyes/LVG days, I've watched 95% of our games and the only ones I've missed out have been due to church/office timing clashes that required me to be somewhere else (I live in the EST zone). I've downloaded/streamed the missed games later in the day. Results are like desserts, sometimes they spoil the meal, but you still take the meal.
Maybe I'm optimistic, but I generally find this moaning a tad tedious.
Easier said than done!
Since having a personal tragedy, I have realized what was truly important in life (as in worth getting worked up over) and what doesn't deserve that much energy/anticipation/frustration. Football and specially Man Utd do not move as strongly as it used to, if there is success then great and if there is a failure (which has often happened with Man Utd) then c'est la vie.
So city are in decline then too right? They havent won the league in what 2 seasons and finished 5th last year. Decline. Chelsea too, theyre big time in decline then right?
No I fecking hate it. I really fecking hate it. I've been through this shit before then I've been through the good times .
I'll take what's coming but I prefer taking the piss out of the rest of my friends rather then take the piss out of me
I'll take what's coming but I prefer taking the piss out of the rest of my friends rather then take the piss out of me
This is why Shanky's quote "Some people think football is a matter of life and death, I assure you, it's much more serious than that" is such a load of rubbish.
No matter how much 11 millionaires kicking a lump of leather around substitutes for what's missing in your life, it all means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Time has changed, footballers and fans used to be a lot more passionate about the game. It'd be easier to relate to the team if you had the feeling they were giving their best for Utd.
I disagree. Sport is something to get worlked up about . Whether to have a jump and have fun. Or to do and get sad. You give your everything to the team you play for or the team you support.
That's obviously nothing like having a child or true loss like losing a loved one.
But to not care about it because you're not the best then you might as well not bother with sports at all or in the first place.
That's obviously nothing like having a child or true loss like losing a loved one.
But to not care about it because you're not the best then you might as well not bother with sports at all or in the first place.
Why such a bipolar view on things ? Where is the loss in not being "all-in" when it comes to viewing sports ? There are other things I'm all-in in life, just finding it harder and harder when it comes to football. We all have our lives and perceptions of things and what is important to us and not.
And I've had children that made sports forgetful. And I've had a grandmother that had dementia and died that made sports irrelevant.
But I love watching my daughter run track and I've seen her get wreck her cruciet. My grandma came to every game and was fair enough about me doing my best
So I completely disagree.
But I love watching my daughter run track and I've seen her get wreck her cruciet. My grandma came to every game and was fair enough about me doing my best
So I completely disagree.
Your life is yours and I'm never gonna tell you how you should feel about football with other things going on in your life. This isn't a contest of who has the shittiest life... Actually there is nothing you should agree or disagree with because I'm just telling it how I feel it.
I guess because my grandma couldn't walk and her mental problems left her when she used to tell me to go on and get them.
And even though she was from Liverpool she sit down with me and a couple of my best friends with a chippy dinner and watch the untied game and tell them how much she loved watching them play and that ooh my lad is just like Ryan Giggs.
And even though she was from Liverpool she sit down with me and a couple of my best friends with a chippy dinner and watch the untied game and tell them how much she loved watching them play and that ooh my lad is just like Ryan Giggs.
I used to get the piss ripped out of me for that one because I had black curly hair and looked a bit like him.
Apologies then
No apologies needed. I just mean that with having a friend who's dad was the Liverpool team bus driver. And having a scouse grandma who had dementia that used to watch the Utd games. I can never just think of them as nothing because of the memories.
And I am in Florida
And I am in Florida
Meh
I've accepted our decline, still hurts. Difference is that now I'm in a constant state of dossapointment rather than angry when we lose.
We're turning into Liverpool. I can see this going on for thirty more years at the least. Whatever we had, we lost it.
Oh how we laughed at the deluded ABUs shaking their fist after another scintillating piece of success for us growling "just wait when Ferguson is gone...". How bullish we, ferguson and the club were when he repeatedly during the last ten years of his tenure bellowed that a Liverpoolisation would never happen to us as we were well prepared...
Turns out we haven't got a divine right to stay on hat pedestal and we aren't infallible to the perils of a good kicking off of that very same pedestal Lolz
Oh how we laughed at the deluded ABUs shaking their fist after another scintillating piece of success for us growling "just wait when Ferguson is gone...". How bullish we, ferguson and the club were when he repeatedly during the last ten years of his tenure bellowed that a Liverpoolisation would never happen to us as we were well prepared...
Turns out we haven't got a divine right to stay on hat pedestal and we aren't infallible to the perils of a good kicking off of that very same pedestal Lolz
Last edited:
I accepted it before it even began. The more time Fergie spent at this club the more apparent it became how absolutely impossible would it be to keep up with the rest without him.
Plus there hasn't been any club in the history of the sport that has constantly dominated at the top non stop for decades no matter what - things happen in cycles - golden generations of players emerge or you get a once in a lifetime kind of personality like Fergie but it has to come down one day like it always does. I'm sure Liverpool at their pomp in the 80s constantly dominating English and European football never thought one day they'd be 26 years without a league title, and that has happened. Not to say we should stop trying or lose all hope but just accept it's others turn now and take what you can get.
Plus there hasn't been any club in the history of the sport that has constantly dominated at the top non stop for decades no matter what - things happen in cycles - golden generations of players emerge or you get a once in a lifetime kind of personality like Fergie but it has to come down one day like it always does. I'm sure Liverpool at their pomp in the 80s constantly dominating English and European football never thought one day they'd be 26 years without a league title, and that has happened. Not to say we should stop trying or lose all hope but just accept it's others turn now and take what you can get.
It's a bit different for me. I still feel as angry, disappointed etc when we have a bad result as I ever did but the feeling goes off within a day. Under SAF, a defeat or bad result would take me a good few days to get over from, I'd actually want the next game to come asap so that we'd win and move on. Now, bad results have become quite common and easier to move on from.
I think the mood, which is described in this thread, is also a perfect description of the mood of our players.
In Sir Alex' days: Oh sh**. We lost a match. What went wrong? How do we fight back now? Whaf if we lose the next one as well? Will I lose my starting place in the starting eleven? ...
After Sir Alex' days: Oh well, that's not good, but, you know... happens.
In Sir Alex' days: Oh sh**. We lost a match. What went wrong? How do we fight back now? Whaf if we lose the next one as well? Will I lose my starting place in the starting eleven? ...
After Sir Alex' days: Oh well, that's not good, but, you know... happens.
Quite the opposite actually, i get more pissed, which considering our current standing is quite worrying i guess 
Honestly, i really thought we had turned a corner with Mouhrino, but it seems we are still not out of the dog house yet. The worst part is how much money we have spent the last couple of years and how it has turned out
Shcneiderlin, Di Maria, Darmian, Rojo, Memphis, Fellaini and now seemingly Mkhitaryan (and god forbid Pogba, but he is looking better)
Thats A LOT of money spent on players not really doing much to improving us. We laughed at City and Chelsea for their scattergun approach in the market, but they struck gold at times, we have not, so in a lot of ways we are actually worse than they were.
Maybe its Fergusons ghost still haunting us? Maybe is the managers? Maybe the players? Staff? Tea lady?
One thing is for certain, our performances do not in any way, shape or form reflect the amount of money we have spent, and it's downright embarrassing. I see a lot of poster talking of "clearing out the deadwood", but i hope that does not mean another round of selling player for peanuts while bringing in 4-5 big money signings.
Did we not steal that head scout from Athletico? Let him get to work and lets find the next Vidic, Evra and Ronaldo. No more of these superstars who are more occupied with their hair than the club. Let us be the ones creating the superstars
Honestly, i really thought we had turned a corner with Mouhrino, but it seems we are still not out of the dog house yet. The worst part is how much money we have spent the last couple of years and how it has turned out
Shcneiderlin, Di Maria, Darmian, Rojo, Memphis, Fellaini and now seemingly Mkhitaryan (and god forbid Pogba, but he is looking better)
Thats A LOT of money spent on players not really doing much to improving us. We laughed at City and Chelsea for their scattergun approach in the market, but they struck gold at times, we have not, so in a lot of ways we are actually worse than they were.
Maybe its Fergusons ghost still haunting us? Maybe is the managers? Maybe the players? Staff? Tea lady?
One thing is for certain, our performances do not in any way, shape or form reflect the amount of money we have spent, and it's downright embarrassing. I see a lot of poster talking of "clearing out the deadwood", but i hope that does not mean another round of selling player for peanuts while bringing in 4-5 big money signings.
Did we not steal that head scout from Athletico? Let him get to work and lets find the next Vidic, Evra and Ronaldo. No more of these superstars who are more occupied with their hair than the club. Let us be the ones creating the superstars
Agree with the opening post. I have lowered my expectations going into each match due to the sub standard performances and players that I no longer get so p*ssed. It's a much better way to be other wise you would sit there and stew for days.
It's not just happening on the pitch but what's going on with the club as a whole that to me atleast makes it feel I've been left a little behind the times.
Earlier the majority of our squad used to be players for whom Utd was always their first big club or the biggest club they would play for in their career. Sure there was an exception here and there but the majority used to have a special affiliation for the club. Even going back just 7-8 years for players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Evra, Vidic, Park, Valencia, Nani etc were all players whose first claim to fame was us. They would forever be associated with us and that obviously applies to the home grown players we used to have as well. Recently we've had a bunch of players for whom we'd be just another big club in a line of other big clubs. Why would players like Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Zlatan, Falcao etc feel any special affiliation to us? We are not the most special club in their careers. Similarly we have a manager who for so long was the enemy and one who's already managed some of the other big clubs. I'm not saying they don't care or don't want to do well here but they have no special affiliation for us here. It's not a matter of life and death for them. All these things contribute to the vibe at the club which translates to this performances on the pitch.
Then there's the fans here who don't think twice before viciously attacking our players and even those who've server us for so long. The amount of abuse Rooney gets is shameful from so called fans of the club he plays for. Sure he's not what he was but you need to respect your players. Giggs is lambasted so often you'd forget he's a Utd legend.
Then when our former players like Neville or Scholes talk about the Utd way they are ridiculed. People forget these guys were fans of the club or associated with the club in the 70s and 80s when we weren't winning things. The Utd way is not just 4-4-2 , it's about respecting everything associated with the club, it's about entertaining the fans and giving your all for the club, be it you are a player or fan.
So it kinda makes sense how someone who's supported Utd for a long time would feel a bit desensitized by what's going on at the club. And it's not just due to poor performances, it's due to a lot deeper factors.
Earlier the majority of our squad used to be players for whom Utd was always their first big club or the biggest club they would play for in their career. Sure there was an exception here and there but the majority used to have a special affiliation for the club. Even going back just 7-8 years for players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Evra, Vidic, Park, Valencia, Nani etc were all players whose first claim to fame was us. They would forever be associated with us and that obviously applies to the home grown players we used to have as well. Recently we've had a bunch of players for whom we'd be just another big club in a line of other big clubs. Why would players like Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Zlatan, Falcao etc feel any special affiliation to us? We are not the most special club in their careers. Similarly we have a manager who for so long was the enemy and one who's already managed some of the other big clubs. I'm not saying they don't care or don't want to do well here but they have no special affiliation for us here. It's not a matter of life and death for them. All these things contribute to the vibe at the club which translates to this performances on the pitch.
Then there's the fans here who don't think twice before viciously attacking our players and even those who've server us for so long. The amount of abuse Rooney gets is shameful from so called fans of the club he plays for. Sure he's not what he was but you need to respect your players. Giggs is lambasted so often you'd forget he's a Utd legend.
Then when our former players like Neville or Scholes talk about the Utd way they are ridiculed. People forget these guys were fans of the club or associated with the club in the 70s and 80s when we weren't winning things. The Utd way is not just 4-4-2 , it's about respecting everything associated with the club, it's about entertaining the fans and giving your all for the club, be it you are a player or fan.
So it kinda makes sense how someone who's supported Utd for a long time would feel a bit desensitized by what's going on at the club. And it's not just due to poor performances, it's due to a lot deeper factors.
No. This is actually the angriest I have been about United in months.
We started playing 89 f'n minutes in, and almost salvaged a draw from that 5 minutes of decent play.
How mentally weak must we be to do that? If we had played for 45 minutes as we played the last 5 minutes we'd have won.
The cowardliness in this team is sickening. So many players hiding from chances to shoot. So many players just wanting someone else to take responsibility.
The most frustrating thing is this squad is really talented but F***ING TIMID. It's like having a side of Verons when we need a team of Fletchers.
They are all happy to do nice little touches, but when you need someone to drive the game forward they go missing.
If the players were actually rubbish it'd be easier to accept. They aren't rubbish, they are just soft.
We started playing 89 f'n minutes in, and almost salvaged a draw from that 5 minutes of decent play.
How mentally weak must we be to do that? If we had played for 45 minutes as we played the last 5 minutes we'd have won.
The cowardliness in this team is sickening. So many players hiding from chances to shoot. So many players just wanting someone else to take responsibility.
The most frustrating thing is this squad is really talented but F***ING TIMID. It's like having a side of Verons when we need a team of Fletchers.
They are all happy to do nice little touches, but when you need someone to drive the game forward they go missing.
If the players were actually rubbish it'd be easier to accept. They aren't rubbish, they are just soft.
I don't think I care less but I'm definitely less shocked with each shit performance/result. Like the OP says, there's been so many false dawns my expectations are more or less permanently lowered.
I try and stick to a few basic principles of giving managers and players a consistent amount of time before writing them off but gone are the days when I felt quietly confident that it was only a matter of time and a good outcome was guaranteed.
In a way, I'm perversely pleased we're a bit shit. It's character building, supporting a shit team. My United obsessed kid is obviously hating us being as poor as we are but has learned a lot about coping with losing and why you don't just watch (or play in) a team for the enjoyment of victory. I think that's probably a good thing. Plus our eventual return to dominance (which is, I think, inevitable) will be incredible, for him and for me. So I'm not going to lose my shit over a few lean years, no matter how far off our perch we fall.
I try and stick to a few basic principles of giving managers and players a consistent amount of time before writing them off but gone are the days when I felt quietly confident that it was only a matter of time and a good outcome was guaranteed.
In a way, I'm perversely pleased we're a bit shit. It's character building, supporting a shit team. My United obsessed kid is obviously hating us being as poor as we are but has learned a lot about coping with losing and why you don't just watch (or play in) a team for the enjoyment of victory. I think that's probably a good thing. Plus our eventual return to dominance (which is, I think, inevitable) will be incredible, for him and for me. So I'm not going to lose my shit over a few lean years, no matter how far off our perch we fall.
Desensitised a bit yes but I'm far from flatline about it.
When you've lived through the 70s/80s you can put things into context.
We won the FA Cup last season. Going on the past we could have been waiting a few more years just for a domestic cup win.
A couple of positives should be that lean times should separate the fair weather fans from the staunch supporters and also the fans should really appreciate success when it does finally arrive.
Also, there is a weird kind of cred gained in supporting a team that doesn't win things all the time. Your loyalty cannot be questioned. Any accusations of glory hunting are out of the window.
When you've lived through the 70s/80s you can put things into context.
We won the FA Cup last season. Going on the past we could have been waiting a few more years just for a domestic cup win.
A couple of positives should be that lean times should separate the fair weather fans from the staunch supporters and also the fans should really appreciate success when it does finally arrive.
Also, there is a weird kind of cred gained in supporting a team that doesn't win things all the time. Your loyalty cannot be questioned. Any accusations of glory hunting are out of the window.
I'm fed up with it all. I get very little enjoyment from United anymore, and not just because we lose more, but because we're boring. The most exciting part of football is scoring goals and we're bloody terrible at it. I'm at the point where I've given up all hope for half our players and accept they aren't that good, and I've accepted our team is poor. Almost every time I watch united I end up regretting wasting 2 hours of my time.
I certainly don't feel as bad as I used to when we lost, now I'm just slightly annoyed for an hour or two then I get over it. It's a sad way to dwell bout something that used to mean so much to me. But there's nothing to love about our current team.
I certainly don't feel as bad as I used to when we lost, now I'm just slightly annoyed for an hour or two then I get over it. It's a sad way to dwell bout something that used to mean so much to me. But there's nothing to love about our current team.
I agree with that. When we had the likes of Frank Sinclair giving their all but being a bit shit it was a lot easier to take than last season when pretty much everyone at the club almost seemed to not bother. I'll be honest and say that the 1997 cup win means more to me than our last league win.
Since SAF left there is very little to enjoy about watching us play, results and performances are dire on a regular basis. Last night was a perfect example we created virtually nothing and from first minute the result was inevitable.
We are a mess and paying the price for appointing the wrong managers and signing the wrong players, the end isn't even in sight either.
We are a mess and paying the price for appointing the wrong managers and signing the wrong players, the end isn't even in sight either.
Awful post from anyone who would ever consider themselves a supporter. Last 3 years have been crap yes but I'll never question my support for the club.
I am becoming accustomed to us pulling out awful results though. My expectations have plummeted massively since the start of the season, once mou came it was clear morale increased but it was very fragile.
Its going to take time.
But for over 2 decades... we were blessed! Makes the decline all the harder to stomach.
I think good players think they've 'made it' when they sign for Utd this days. Seems to be an attitude of players resting on their laurels and unrealistically expecting respect and time on the ball from opposition. It's like signing on the dotted line for Utd is their finish line, whereas players like Ronaldo seen it as the starting line.
Fergie didn't inherit a team with an unprecedented domestic record when he took over. Utd have won 50% of league titles in the past 10yrs. Fergie had nowhere near that bedrock - nor the financial clout Utd have had since he left, when he took over.
I can see where you're coming from but I think the scenarios are circumstantially incomparable.