Castles: Mourinho believes Man Utd squad's broken. Will take at least two transfer windows to repair

[WhoDaGOAT]

The outcry on here over everything Mourinho says or allegedly has said is quite something.
I agree with most of that article and in particular the part about losing experience.

The squad if full of experience.

Rooney, Ibrahimović, Carrick and Valencia are veterans. Schweinsteiger is as experienced as it gets, and he was around the squad for awhile.

Mata, Herrera, Fellaini and Schneiderlin are at the prime age for midfielders and are Premier League proven.

De Gea is world class and has been playing first team football for years.

The defence is a bit of a concern in terms of overall quality, but it's not lacking experience. Smalling has been at the club for over 6 years.

Blind, Rojo and Damian are experienced internationals and are all 26.

 

[AN17]

Herrera is nowhere near title winning quality, nor is Valencia any more

Leicester did it with the like of Danny Simpson, Drinkwater and Albrighton.. You don't need to have world class players in every single position.

 

[lysglimt]

Apparently it's impossible to take a fairly "average" side to the top of the table in England if you are a good manager.

Leicester won the league with 3 quality players and a bunch of very average ones. And someone talks about a broken squad which includes Shaw, DeGea, Jones, Bailly, Smalling, Valencia, Mata, Herrera, Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Martial, Carrick, Zlatan and Pogba

You have GOT to be kidding.

 

[Snow]

He came in and got the best out of the squad inherited, and added 4-5 quality performers over 2 years with shrewd deals. Mourinho's already added 4 muppet superstars for the tune of 150mill.
You make it sound he (Poch) has had to do wholesale changes, which is false. Ditto Klopp
Mourinho should be able to get better results with this group of players, muppets demanding superstars in every position just to challenge in the PL is such gash.
We've seen from Klopp, Conte and Poch wholesale turnovers of a squad aren't needed to improve, good managment is.



Try watching our games a bit more closely, perhaps.

I don't make it sound like that. A whole season of football is played using more than your starting lineup. Ben Davies played 14 games last season. Alderweireld has been their best CB. Wanyama has been their best midfielder this season. It's also a matter of getting a rid of some players, not just bringing new ones in. Both Poch and Klopp have gotten rid of a lot of players.

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Yep. He's enthusiastic, celebrates well, runs around a bit. But as I've been saying for ages, and nobody can answer, what actually makes him a good top level footballer? Doesn't score, gives the ball away too much, can't tackle. Sell me on him because i don't get it. If you think he's been the best, why? What's he done to be the best so far?

Mata has been our best player this seasom imo

Hahaha. Can't tackle. He was outstanding against Liverpool and Arsenal. He rarely gives the ball away. His run from midfield and pull back for Mata was perfectly executed. He is always willing to receive the ball in tight areas and is constantly organising others. He has been a leader.

When he was played in more advanced areas of the pitch during 2014/2015, he chipped in with lots of goals. His through ball while falling on his arse put Martial through on goal to send us through to the final of The FA Cup.

Much more complete than the flashy Pogba thus far. If you can't see his qualities, I can't help that.

 

[Lennon7]

A list of players that aren't up to scratch?
- Jones
- Rojo
- Darmian
- Fellaini
- Schneiderlin
- Memphis
- Rooney
- Arguably Shaw
- Arguably Lingard
- Arguably Smalling. Quite inconsistent despite his amazing season last year

Whether or not I'd be happy to see them all go is a different matter, but at the moment they're not up to the standard we should be expecting.

 

[VP89]

Yet another who says a player is good but can't back it up more than "you're wrong" and unfortunately you're in the majority

You haven't exactly backed anything up. You just stated its your opinion, and then went on to say Herrera can't pass or tackle etc. which actually goes against the facts. He wins as many duels as any of the top holding players this season, and has 89% pass accuracy.

To add to that, he's caught the eye of pundits and sports analysts, which is trickier to do from the holding midfield role than it is from an attacking one.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ressing-behind-paul-pogba-in-man-utd-midfield

You then said Rashford and Martial can change a game, when in reality they've rarely done so this season. Then you said Valencia is no longer a title winning player which is beggars belief, given he's been very, very good at right back this season.

Its more that I don't want to waste my time with reasons to such misguided opinions. Its like you won't really get it anyway, so why bother.

 

[OohAahMartial]

What I took away from the article was that it would take longer than 2 transfer windows, as it's hard to buy so many elite level players. My interpretation of the article is that Mourinho's goal is the Champion's League, and a long term run of success like Sir Alex had. With that as goal, not just top 4 in a league which has increasingly fallen behind it's European rivals, for sure requires elite level players, not the good to average players which fill our 11. It shows that he's aiming for the very top and thinking long-term, and has also identified that the poor mentality and lack of leadership issues that we have all discussed so much on here. We lack a defensive leader, a midfield general/captain, a 30 goal/season striker in his prime, full backs etc. We can barely challenge in the Europa league and frequently look half arsed and accept defeat with laughing, joking and swapping shirts. The mentality and leadership issues of the team are holding it back from producing the consistency and fulfilling the potential of the talent that the squad has. That's not that controversial a thing to say. There are countless threads on such topics. This may be a call for patience and understanding from the fans, but also a ploy to sting some effort and desire from the players. Some may object to Jose's frequent use of stick rather carrot motivation, but for some players that is what is needed.

 

[Stacks]

The way I see this suggestion of 2 transfer windows it is as I feared. Jose will not get much out of the younger guys and will bring in older guys, possibly for large amounts of money. This could mean we could be unlikely to see Rashford, Martial etc kick on the way we wanted them to as they will get limited game time going forward. He'll definitely buy a LW. Maybe even a top striker like Griezmann which I have no problem with. The issue is that his rotation sucks majorly, so guys like Rashford won't even get Europa starts. Whether he buys a RW depends on Miki getting consistent minutes and possibly form. We will have to see the development of Shaw as he has been attacked twice publicly in just a few months. If we are are to invest large sums on Elite level signings, then our academy will most likely will be there merely for show and these young talents like Gomes, that everyone creams over well.....they will probably get loaned out before being sold. I would have loved to see Fosu-Mensah bursting down the flanks with pace and power like his cameo last season, however he has made less appearances than Darmian, whom I don't rate. To be fair though, this is what we should expect, as Jose does not have the patience to develop/grow young players so we sort of knew what we were getting.

 

[Catt]

The squad if full of experience.

Rooney, Ibrahimović, Carrick and Valencia are veterans. Schweinsteiger is as experienced as it gets, and he was around the squad for awhile.

Mata, Herrera, Fellaini and Schneiderlin are at the prime age for midfielders and are Premier League proven.

De Gea is world class and has been playing first team football for years.

The defence is a bit of a concern in terms of overall quality, but it's not lacking experience. Smalling has been at the club for over 6 years.

Blind, Rojo and Damian are experienced internationals and are all 26.

I was alluding to losing/getting rid of players like Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Hernandez. That was all players who had won the league at United.
I'm not so sure all the players coming in the last 3 years has the same carachter those had.
No doubt this squad should be doing much better, I'm just finding it ridiculous how so many get their knickers twisted by everything Mourinho says and does.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Martial - Zlatan - Mata/Miki
Pogba - Ander
Carrick
Shaw - Blind - Bailly - Vale
DdG
​

That team should at least be top 4 with the right management. You can argue that every manager needs 1 year to fully implement his ideas, but the squad have enough quality to win.

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

I was alluding to losing/getting rid of players like Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Hernandez. That was all players who had won the league at United.
I'm not so sure all the players coming in the last 3 years has the same carachter those had.
No doubt this squad should be doing much better, I'm just finding it ridiculous how so many get their knickers twisted by everything Mourinho says and does.

I think Ferguson stuck with Vida and Rio for too long. He was able to squeeze one last title out of them, and Rio was excellent. But in the long term, Smalling and Jones' development stagnated because of a lack of regular game time at centre back. So Moyes was left with a bit of a conundrum. Do I look classless by getting rid of two legends or do I start to build my own team with Evans, Smalling and Jones? If you get me.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Leicester did it with the like of Danny Simpson, Drinkwater and Albrighton.. You don't need to have world class players in every single position.

Not doing so well this season though, are they? Wasn't Kante a big part of their success? Winning the CL and consistently being i the top 2, as SAF did, is very different to what Ranieri has done in his career, and is the true level we should be aiming at.

 

[MDFC Manager]

LvG was hammered for saying similar. Poor state of affairs at the club.

 

[Celestiale]

Not doing so well this season though, are they? Wasn't Kante a big part of their success? Winning the CL and consistently being i the top 2, as SAF did, is very different to what Ranieri has done in his career, and is the true level we should be aiming at.

It's still true. Even the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern don't have world class players in every single position. They have the same kind of "deadwood" we have

 

[OohAahMartial]

It's still true. Even the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern don't have world class players in every single position. They have the same kind of "deadwood" we have

Are their teams and squads better than ours?

 

[prath92]

So the manager is at fault if the striker misses chances?
I'd be more worried if we weren't creating much like last season.

Last year we didn't create yet we have scored exactly the same as last season. And I'm pretty sure we are defensively even worse. And that's after we are attacking wise stronger (adding mkhitariyan pogba and ibra to what's effectively our attack last season) and yet we have barely improved.

 

[JJ12]

More excuses. Pochettino and Klopp did not inherited star studded 1st teams or squads. Neither did Conte. In fact on paper, many (neutrals) expected us to be in a title challenge, based on the 150m invested on supposedly, 2 world class players and a player of the year. If Jose needs £500 mill to buy a new team everywhere he goes then he has problems with his management as many can get something from what they have. In fact any manager worth his salt should be able to achieve this.

If we are still in the same position come May I'll agree with you. 12 games in is not enough to make a definitive assessment.

 

[Celestiale]

Are their teams and squads better than ours?

Real Madrid and Barcelona have the best 5 attacking players of the planet, that makes them a long way apart all other teams.
Bayerns team is not far apart from ours in individual class - but in terms of mentality worlds apart. And that's probably the most important in football

 

[Noc-Z]

Martial - Zlatan - Mata/Miki
Pogba - Ander
Carrick
Shaw - Blind - Bailly - Vale
DdG
​

That team should at least be top 4 with the right management. You can argue that every manager needs 1 year to fully implement his ideas, but the squad have enough quality to win.

Mata is not a winger, he should be a number 10 to get the best out of him. Blind is no way a top CB. He's only ever filled in there and "done a job" but made a few mistakes that cost us too. Carrick, excellent as he is, is getting on in years and can't be relied upon to be a starter every game now. Ander Herrera has a lot of enthusiasm but is pretty average. Pogba is a raw talent, he's not yet the complete midfielder but he is slowly settling in I'll give him that. Martial, to me is not a winger and is unhappy - that's a mentality problem on his side. Zlatan has come to us too late in his career he was brought in to convert chances and he missed a few blatant ones that cost us at least 6 points. Mkhitaryan is an absolute bottler, simply not mentally strong enough to be here.

We have the right management, it is the players who are lacking.

 

[Devil may care]

The difference between us and the other teams is we only have one attacking player in his prime, and we have a midfield that only functions properly when we play a player that can't play every week.

 

[Lawman]

Herrera is nowhere near title winning quality, nor is Valencia any more

Behave Valencia is better than most at right back and Herrera would get into most teams in the EPL.

 

[Pyroblazer]

Lol every manager with the same shit. Work with what you have, you outspent pretty much every other club last window too and it's kind of funny to hear someone like Jose talk about "building over time". When did he ever prove that he can do that. We signed him because we are desperate for success now and he looked like the most proven short term fix. So start delivering Jose, then you can bring further improvements in. It's not like your current ones are proving that they will improve us, one of them doesn't even make the bench because of "reasons".

 

[AN17]

Not doing so well this season though, are they? Wasn't Kante a big part of their success? Winning the CL and consistently being i the top 2, as SAF did, is very different to what Ranieri has done in his career, and is the true level we should be aiming at.

My point remains. A well drilled team with mostly average players showed it was possible to successfully complete a title challenge.This season Vardy and Mahrez have gone off the boil and they lost Kante.

But last season didn't occur because of just the in form players, the tactics and every single player playing it to perfection did it for them. This season they haven't been able to do it for whatever reason plus the oppisitions have figured them out.

SAF won the league by successfully managing and rotating average players in and out of the 11 for a long time.

Not slating Jose for some shit Castles have conjured up, but he certainly has a decent squad to atleast mount a title challenge if he can get the tactics and first 11 right.

 

[donkeyfish]

I would be very interested to hear how Mourinho, or other top managers, assess our players. I have this feeling there are several factors they weigh that are difficult for supporters to measure properly, since they are latent.

We talk about how players like Lallana, Milner or Moses doesn't really show much quality we don't have in our squad. But they might have features I simply fail to grasp the importance of. Especially those of us that watch most of the games on TV, without seeing the whole pitch.

It's not unthinkable that Mourinho at this date rate his squad differently than he did in June, and has formed some new plan to change it to his desire. I do hope though that we can keep a manager for a few seasons, to avoid having misfitted players once again.

 

[top1whoisman]

Herrera is nowhere near title winning quality, nor is Valencia any more

Mata is not a winger, he should be a number 10 to get the best out of him. Blind is no way a top CB. He's only ever filled in there and "done a job" but made a few mistakes that cost us too. Carrick, excellent as he is, is getting on in years and can't be relied upon to be a starter every game now. Ander Herrera has a lot of enthusiasm but is pretty average. Pogba is a raw talent, he's not yet the complete midfielder but he is slowly settling in I'll give him that. Martial, to me is not a winger and is unhappy - that's a mentality problem on his side. Zlatan has come to us too late in his career he was brought in to convert chances and he missed a few blatant ones that cost us at least 6 points. Mkhitaryan is an absolute bottler, simply not mentally strong enough to be here.

We have the right management, it is the players who are lacking.

It's pretty impressing that the average Herrera has just broke into the Spanish squad that arguably has the best midfield in the world.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Mata is not a winger, he should be a number 10 to get the best out of him. Blind is no way a top CB. He's only ever filled in there and "done a job" but made a few mistakes that cost us too. Carrick, excellent as he is, is getting on in years and can't be relied upon to be a starter every game now. Ander Herrera has a lot of enthusiasm but is pretty average. Pogba is a raw talent, he's not yet the complete midfielder but he is slowly settling in I'll give him that. Martial, to me is not a winger and is unhappy - that's a mentality problem on his side. Zlatan has come to us too late in his career he was brought in to convert chances and he missed a few blatant ones that cost us at least 6 points. Mkhitaryan is an absolute bottler, simply not mentally strong enough to be here.

We have the right management, it is the players who are lacking.

Mata has played as a winger for more of his career than as a #10 and he has done well.

Martial was great for us last season as a left inside-forward.

Few teams have a deep-lying playmaker like Carrick in their squad. He is still one of the Best passers in the game.

Do you see where i'm getting at? You are making up excuses.

Look at a team like Liverpool and see how much they get out of Average to decent players.

 

[Stacks]

If we are still in the same position come May I'll agree with you. 12 games in is not enough to make a definitive assessment.

its true. sometimes I need a voice of reason. everything we are saying is based on a tiny sample size from us. I am speaking mainly on Liverpool as they have clearly turned a corner. some teams calling them the best they have played. Also it appears Jose is ready to ring the changes so early and buy a whole team of Elite players, tells me he doesn't have confidence in developing this lot

 

[OohAahMartial]

Real Madrid and Barcelona have the best 5 attacking players of the planet, that makes them a long way apart all other teams.
Bayerns team is not far apart from ours in individual class - but in terms of mentality worlds apart. And that's probably the most important in football

The mentality issue was a main point of the article. Mhki, Darmian, Shaw, Smalling, Martial, Schweinsteiger, just to name a few, have showed poor mentality. The kind of psychological games Jose is playing at the moment is his way of trying to stir up their desire, but this kind of mentality is mostly innate and not so easily remedied or instilled, especially in older players. So replacing these players with the 4-5 elite level players that are mentioned, or, in the case of the younger of them, motivating them with these mind games, is needed to get the team firing on all cylinders.

We also don't have any of the best attacking players on the planet. We have some who potentially are, or were, but this season is showing what that gets us. If we are going to go back to competing with those kind of teams we need to have at least some, and not just a world class goalie.

 

[cyberman]

The thing is, if we do sign a Griezmann and a top DM and / or winger, our squad goes from 2nd tier to elite level status.
Who has backup better than Rashford? Mata? Herrera? Smalling?
Our weakness becomes our strength in depth advantage.

 

[Stacks]

Lol every manager with the same shit. Work with what you have, you outspent pretty much every other club last window too and it's kind of funny to hear someone like Jose talk about "building over time". When did he ever prove that he can do that. We signed him because we are desperate for success now and he looked like the most proven short term fix. So start delivering Jose, then you can bring further improvements in. It's not like your current ones are proving that they will improve us, one of them doesn't even make the bench because of "reasons".[/QUOTE]
QUOTE]
.

This was quite funny

 

[JustFootballFan]

I hope Castles atleast takes his tongue out of Mourinho's crack twice a day for his meals.

 

[OohAahMartial]

My point remains. A well drilled team with mostly average players showed it was possible to successfully complete a title challenge.This season Vardy and Mahrez have gone off the boil and they lost Kante.

But last season didn't occur because of just the in form players, the tactics and every single player playing it to perfection did it for them. This season they haven't been able to do it for whatever reason plus the oppisitions have figured them out.

SAF won the league by successfully managing and rotating average players in and out of the 11 for a long time.

Not slating Jose for some shit Castles have conjured up, but he certainly has a decent squad to atleast mount a title challenge if he can get the tactics and first 11 right.

If Zlatan went on a scoring run like Vardys last year instead of this year then just this alone we'd be in a title challenging position. If Martial was playing like last year or like Mahrez last year rather than Mahrez this year then just this alone and we'd be in a title challenging position.

 

[Stacks]

The thing is, if we do sign a Griezmann and a top DM and / or winger, our squad goes from 2nd tier to elite level status.
Who has backup better than Rashford? Mata? Herrera? Smalling?
Our weakness becomes our strength in depth advantage.

This is very true. Griezmann knocked out Barca and Bayern based on scraps. Literally finished his only chances (at least it appeared like this). With a striker that clinical, we would be much further up.

 

[VeevaVee]

More excuses. Pochettino and Klopp did not inherited star studded 1st teams or squads. Neither did Conte. In fact on paper, many (neutrals) expected us to be in a title challenge, based on the 150m invested on supposedly, 2 world class players and a player of the year. If Jose needs £500 mill to buy a new team everywhere he goes then he has problems with his management as many can get something from what they have. In fact any manager worth his salt should be able to achieve this.

If rumours are true, which is quite plausible, then there are deeper issues with us. We've also come off the back of the most tumescent football ever seen (am I even exaggerating?), which I'm sure is having lingering effects. Jose should be doing better, but most people agreed it would take at least 2 summers to sort us out anyway when he joined and we don't even know how bad it is on the inside.

 

[Noc-Z]

Behave Valencia is better than most at right back and Herrera would get into most teams in the EPL.

I'm not convinced Herrera would. Maybe most of the teams below us.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

We cannot keep throwing 100s of millions on players every window, give the young fellas like TFM a chance

 

[Stacks]

If rumours are true, which is quite plausible, then there are deeper issues with us. We've also come off the back of the most tumescent football ever seen (am I even exaggerating?), which I'm sure is having lingering effects. Jose should be doing better, but most people agreed it would take at least 2 summers to sort us out anyway when he joined and we don't even know how bad it is on the inside.

It doesn't add up though. We were able to match most of our rivals in head to heads last year, and personally didn't make champions league due to our reluctance to shoot, opting for passing teams to death. We should always kick on and not go backwards after this window. Put it this way, if Pogba could perform consistently for 90 many most games like De Bruyne and Mkhitatryan could've been our Hazard (goals from wide) which he did last season in abundance, we would be fine. On signings alone, everyone expected more from us, simple as.

 

[VeevaVee]

The thing is, if we do sign a Griezmann and a top DM and / or winger, our squad goes from 2nd tier to elite level status.
Who has backup better than Rashford? Mata? Herrera? Smalling?
Our weakness becomes our strength in depth advantage.

Absolutely this (also CB is necessary, plus a few others that aren't as urgent like RB)

 

[BlueCelery]

It's still true. Even the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern don't have world class players in every single position. They have the same kind of "deadwood" we have

No they don't.