Moyes? Great Manager? WTF.I don't think so. Both are great managers. The problem is that they succeeded each other, which is kind of stupid. They have completely different styles and that forced you to keep rebuilding.
If a manager of a big club can't manage to improve the team or finish in the top 4 their future will generally be up for discussion.Are there people seriously suggesting that Mourinho is sacked?!
Bloody hell.
If he doesn't get CL and we finish 6/7, not winning / scoring at home - then surely he will be under pressure.Are there people seriously suggesting that Mourinho is sacked?!
Bloody hell.
Meant Van Gaal and Mourinho.Moyes? Great Manager? WTF.
5 star postThis squad last season was level on points with City, above Chelsea and Liverpool, and won the FA Cup. Not good enough, but far from being a total disaster or some impossible mission like some people pretend. Once we retire LvG from the equation (the main problem), we hire Mourinho and we add 4 good players, we should expect an immediate impact in terms of football and results. And even if it's true that we played well at some stages of the season, in 2017 we've been painful to watch in overall, and results are not impressive either. This is somehow called a massive improvement, but I don't see it anywhere. A bit more freedom and attacking intent which is welcome, but nothing more.
Anyway I can accept a second season even if he fails now, but Mourinho never needed too much time to build a competitive unit. So this protective narrative about him needing X summers to get it right, suggest me that even his biggest fans know in deep that he's losing his spark. Because from the first moment he managed a team you could always identify a champion in the making, without poor excuses like it happens now. He made an impact and changed the mentality of every team he took over, and I don't see this "Mourinho factor" here at United, at least at the same level that I saw it in the past.
I don't know the man personally but he looks sour and depressed, and I'm not sure if he has the energy to motivate this dressing room. His tactical resources and alternatives are pure garbage, and his line ups and decisions with players are highly debatable. I think it's reasonable to give him a second season to improve things, but it's more based on our recent history at sacking managers more than anything, which says it all about him. I mean, when the main reason to stick with him is "we sacked two managers in a short time", "we can't keep sacking managers" you know there's something wrong with the man.
Some people keep talking about Mourinho like he's the best, but he's not too far from losing his credit as a top manager. 2 league trophies and 0 CL finals in the last 7 seasons is not something to be proud, when you are supposedly a wizard of the game, you manage some of the best teams and you're allowed to spend millions happily every summer. His last season was pathetic in every sense, and he's doing nothing special here by the moment. I agree with that sentiment that the old Mourinho would be laughing at the current one. He's becoming a poor parody of himself.
Technically you are correct however Jose will avoid any pressure on his job via a technicality if we win the Europa League because this will qualify us for the UCL.If he doesn't get CL and we finish 6/7, not winning / scoring at home - then surely he will be under pressure.
The last 2 suffered the same feat, LvG missed out on top 4 on goal difference.
At some point he is going to run out of players to blame if he doesn't start taking responsibility for the results.They'll probably be moved on.
I think this is wrong - these players have been a major constant of what has happened over the past three years and they haven't been made to account. Yes we have had clear outs before but those were premised on misplaced assumptions and they have been players who somehow managed to survive because they display various intangibles that make managers rely on them but do not deliver consistently. Look at Valencia, for example, individually he looks great because he drives at the opposition and stretches the pitch but because his final ball is wank he won't create enough clear cut goal scoring opportunities and he will stay safe from criticism, same with Young looks good driving up the pitch but contributes too little where it matters the most. If we had the requisite quality out wide we'd be scoring goals by the bucket load and our central players would thrive more because of the space they would be allowed.You're right. His pitch was "I've been out of work, focusing on United, I know what to do, hire me and I'll turn things around." Its not much of an excuse.
And I don't buy it anyway, I don't buy that this is a poor group of players. A "frankenstein" group, collected by a group of managers with different ideas, maybe. And again, as before, Mourinho should have seen that. But even if he did there's probably not much he could have done about it. Changing more than 4 first team players at once creates a different set of problems, as we've seen before.
Maybe I've talked myself into this, to keep hold of my hope. But I still think, disappointed as I am with how things have gone this season, our best option is to be patient and hope.
And this season will still be a pretty good one of we finish 6th but with the EL. Not a great one by any means, but nothing to complain about. So as long as he has us motivated for that I'll try and stay positive.
While being a great achievement his first stint at Chelsea is ancient history in terms of football. The goal record with Madrid was obviously impressive, but that alone doesn't make him a great attacking coach for me, I mean it's fairly obvious when you watch his teams play, isn't it?How will you argue against the points about "his Real Madrid team scored record number of goals" or "his 1st Chelsea team had the record number of points in EPL history"?
I'm aware I'll get flack for this - probably not by you but others - but it seems as if it's incredibly difficult for many United fans to accept that right now and for the last years, United haven't been real contenders for the PL title, and that's why double standards are applied. IMHO too many just look at names and their previous achievements and extrapolate from there. But if there's one thing in football that's clear is that the past is irrelevant. That's IMHO one out of three reasons why football is so popular around the globe.Actually what we have on the CAF are threads of all the clubs ahead of us in the league, filled with posts tearing into the opposition manager every time they draw out lose.
So if people are comfortable to criticize other managers primarily why is it a taboo to do the same? Unless we choose to live in denial and be blinded by bias.
TBF, he's probably one of, if not the best counter attacking coach in football. He doesn't seem to be interested in adopting that style here though.While being a great achievement his first stint at Chelsea is ancient history in terms of football. The goal record with Madrid was obviously impressive, but that alone doesn't make him a great attacking coach for me, I mean it's fairly obvious when you watch his teams play, isn't it?
Great point there, look no further than some threads in "Football Forum". Klopp and Guardiola getting ridiculed on daily basis pretty much whilst with Mourinho it all comes down to "he needs more time" and "it's not his squad".No doubt about that. Likewise, if José were underperforming elsewhere that way, Caf users would mock the respective fanbase all day for the same blind faith that's practiced here. I suppose objectivity isn't a football fan's strongest suit, regardless of the club s/he feels attached to.
Then why on earth is he using him as a part of MF duo? He himself has witnessed Pogba's best games came from playing him as LCMF, more attacking oriented.Pogba signing was OTT but there again, he's young, he's the most promising attacking midfielder in the world and he's a homegrown talent. You can't really expect him to perform miracles either. Scholes had Keane, Zidane had Davids, Pirlo had Gattuso and we partnered him with a former player and some Bolton type of no 10 with funny hair
The problem is that a lot of us are struggling to see exactly what style he is attempting to adopt.TBF, he's probably one of, if not the best counter attacking coach in football. He doesn't seem to be interested in adopting that style here though.
Some people keep talking about Mourinho like he's the best, but he's not too far from losing his credit as a top manager. 2 league trophies and 0 CL finals in the last 7 seasons is not something to be proud
Oh, agreed RE the Europa League, if he wins that, then he will be here and that's the scenario I would want the most - win EL build for next year.Technically you are correct however Jose will avoid any pressure on his job via a technicality if we win the Europa League because this will qualify us for the UCL.
In my opinion domestically he has not performed to the standard I expected, now when the players don't do that he's happy to call them out so I don't see why his position shouldn't be widely discussed.
Would I sack him quite yet? Possibly not as I think giving someone just the one season comes across as a bit knee jerk. But he needs to make vast improvement next season in the Premier League, especially at home.
When you step back, see those names and then see some of the others we have in the squad, it really does hit home how shit and underwhelming he / we have been this year.All this season has proved is that he truly is a checkbook manager. Whatever success he gains next season will be from the money he spent rather than his brilliance as a manager. You just have to look at the Liverpool squad and Man city's defense its a joke. If he was good as advertised he would be able to get a team with Pogba, De Gea, Zlatan, Mata, Mkhitaryan and a solid defense like ours into the top 4 comfortably but he is currently struggling to hold on to fifth. To me that says a lot about him than the players.....the bright side is that if he stays for another two seasons is that when gets himself sacked unlike Moyes and Lvg he will leave with a strong squad
He's implementing an imposing side that dominate games on the front foot, pretty easy to see what he's trying to adopt. He just hasn't managed it yet. Will he be able to? Only time will tell.The problem is that a lot of us are struggling to see exactly what style he is attempting to adopt.
Isnt the lack of wingers indicative of what Im saying? Van Gaal was more about the patient build up, we didnt need those kinds of players to play his way. The players who could have done that for him - like Di Maria - were out of place.I think this is wrong - these players have been a major constant of what has happened over the past three years and they haven't been made to account. Yes we have had clear outs before but those were premised on misplaced assumptions and they have been players who somehow managed to survive because they display various intangibles that make managers rely on them but do not deliver consistently. Look at Valencia, for example, individually he looks great because he drives at the opposition and stretches the pitch but because his final ball is wank he won't create enough clear cut goal scoring opportunities and he will stay safe from criticism, same with Young looks good driving up the pitch but contributes too little where it matters the most. If we had the requisite quality out wide we'd be scoring goals by the bucket load and our central players would thrive more because of the space they would be allowed.
That sounds more like an objective than a style.He's implementing an imposing side that dominate games on the front foot, pretty easy to see what he's trying to adopt. He just hasn't managed it yet. Will he be able to? Only time will tell.
If we don't win the EL then it will be seen as disastrous NQAT and could have huge ramifications going forward in the summer on who we can sign to take us back up a level (or 3!).This season has been underwhelming rather than disastrous. Combine that with Jose's track record and the club's need for some stability, then as a minimum he should get backing in the summer transfer window followed by the whole of next season. If we are still scraping around in 5th or 6th this time next year, then the Board will have to reconsider.
As an aside, I think the "patience" argument lost a lot of its currency in 2013-2014 when it was being used to defend the indefensible.
I can barely remember one clear cut chance we had v WBA, though maybe I was napping like most of the stadium.He's still top drawer. We're creating so many chances thanks to the football he has us playing.
Don't care what anyone says, it's not his fault when our players can't put the ball in the back of the net. He can't control what happens when a player is through on goal.
Yes, you've made it abundantly clear you don't like Jose or his tactics. I don't intend to get into a discussion with you because there's a select few on here who just dislike him. Your mind's made up about him, so there's really no point getting into this. Enjoy your day palThat sounds more like an objective than a style.
I think what a lot of us are seeing is a fairly basic 4-2-3-1 formation which plays fairly tumescent, slow paced football and relies on moments of individual brilliance from players to create anything. Add into this a tendency to resort to panicky long-ball football, playing people out of position and a preference for 'parking the bus' when we come up against any decent teams and it all adds up to a pretty uninspiring mix.
It's certainly not great but, as we complete year 4 of relative mediocrity (3 of them under respected coaches), I am resigning myself to the fact turning around United is not something than can be solved by splashing the cash in one summer window. Something was (is?) quite rotten in the club and changing the culture will take time.If we don't win the EL then it will be seen as disastrous NQAT and could have huge ramifications going forward in the summer on who we can sign to take us back up a level (or 3!).
People can spin it all they want, but Champs League would have been seen as the minimum requirement, especially as it alters the sponsorship money.
I agree with your post here, in particular the last paragraph. Playing devils advocate slightly, I think if we were in the position we find ourselves and Mourinho had gone about the job with dignity, been honest but fair in interviews and not singled out individuals for criticism then he would have bought a lot more good grace from fans.Oh, agreed RE the Europa League, if he wins that, then he will be here and that's the scenario I would want the most - win EL build for next year.
However there seems to be some posters on here (not you) who seem to think he has a free hit come what may. I can personally sense a growing unrest at Old Trafford at the moment, it is very hard to argue, certainly on results, that we are that much better this year.
If we finish 6/7 and don't win the EL, the season will have been a complete and utter disaster and that is before factoring in the amount of draws to absolute shite at home. In which case I don't think it is clear cut he will keep his job - it's a huge 6 weeks in the career of Mourinho.
This is doing my head in a bit now. If we want to improve the squad over a long period of time and improve the culture of the club why on earth did we hire Mourinho? That's literally the opposite of what he has shown to do at a club.It's certainly not great but, as we complete year 4 of relative mediocrity (3 of them under respected coaches), I am resigning myself to the fact turning around United is not something than can be solved by splashing the cash in one summer window. Something was (is?) quite rotten in the club and changing the culture will take time.
That's a good point.Mourinho is a manager worth sticking with. Pep isn't doing any better either and City would be mad to replace him.
Some of us think he may well see this job as different, he's played the field and sewn his oats, now he wants to settle down yadda yadda yadda.This is doing my head in a bit now. If we want to improve the squad over a long period of time and improve the culture of the club why on earth did we hire Mourinho? That's literally the opposite of what he has shown to do at a club.
Mourinho was a short term fix to get us up there. Like Chelsea/Inter and Madrid. He's not a squad builder necessarily.
