feck yous all!
Is Mou still 'The Special One' for you all?
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
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Well I agree with this definitely because we had a squad built to play the United way post saf era.
But i think LVG's team building and his Philosophy has definitely helped us tactically and turned the tide in our favour against the Likes of Pep guardiola and klopp and pochetino a lot tactically and as a "United brand " which the one who plays attacking football at all times . Lvg was a double edged sword so he had a tendency to cut himself with it too but He has had a huge imprint in united tactically because had we done rebuilding under Jose mourinho we would never have a side that presses so high in the midfeild and wins the ball back quickly and blocks the opponents creativity and nullifies the opponents best players creatively and throw them out of the game without letting them have the ball and the defensive balance wing backs bring against sides like these . This is a huge huge asset which was only possible to learn under LVG. I Know LVG is not a favourite subject here but Mourinho would never build a proactive High pressing Posession based football which is a huge asset in one on one big games and Knockout competitions and European competitions since other teams also have quality players and this style nullies them because they dont havethe ball much. Rashford too would have never come through the academy so early in the first team under Mourinho and would have reduced to a bit part role. And nnither we would have seen martial here who 's a top potential but right now he has to adapt to the tactical changes mourinho brought in that role on the wing.
I think hiring Lvg dint give us titles , but as of now he built a greater platform that mourinho wont have built, only for Mourinho to build on this even further , atleast for the time being till top managers are still playing in the Epl.
Had this squad more attacking balance up front with the pace and finishing we would definately we title contenders this year, As i definately belive Zlatan does hold us back tactically when he drops deeper as our attacking balanced is sacrifized, but his charecter and mentality have helped us a lot .
Lvg deserved some credit, because 22 games unbeaten is not just down to mourinho only , its also because of the way we play and the way our team has been built to play that is Posession based proactive attacking football, and since we are a top club in england Our brand of attacking football will remain the same. Mourinho is just adapting to the United's principles now and its very encouraging to see.
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He's had my backing from the off. We're almost impossible to beat. We just need to add a few more with the talent and required mental strength and lose or reform those with questionable mentalities and be more ruthless all over the pitch. We're 2/3 of the way to being a very, very good team. It'll happen and sooner than most think.
This thread should be closed off now.
Credit to Mourinho for putting out a side which has perfect attacking defensive balance today as rashford has the ability to stretch the defense and get on one on one with the keeper and The fluild WF who could do the double role of wing back and forward cutting inside made united a fluid 433 352 451 side interchanging between and made us more unpredictable and caught chelsea napping . The wide players had to play today to get in behind the chelsea wingbacks as there is space against a 343 system
But as we know We cant play like this every game and also have costed us a lot of draws which is an irony.
Why ?
But you realise it's possible to support him and question some of his decisions along the way right?Sure. Great that we agree.
Maybe because Im older now but I find this instant gratification era frustrating: some people flip and flop depending where the wind blows and after the tiniest of tremors - see it a lot on here. It demonstrates a lack of understanding on how the world works and creates unnecessary angst for society as well as the individual.
One should take time and do proper due diligence before getting to a point of view. Once you take a view, stick with it and provide encouragement and belief. Invariably, it will work out as you planned.
We should have done whatever it took to get Mourinho signed straight after SAF, just like the club did when recruiting SAF from Aberdeen. By now, he would have turned us into a top team winning PL and CL titles.
Its split milk now, and at least the board finally got the decision right. But he is also just human and not a miracle worker. It takes a little time to transform a misfiring tanker into a lethal submarine. But I'm absolutely convinced Mourinho will do it. He just needs suitable investment, mental support (which he gets from our match going fans) and time.
Within his industry, Mourinho is a truly exceptional talent and very very special at what he does. There are no short cuts to greatness: he is smarter, has more experience, is more motivated and works harder than any other manager. Reminds me of SAF in so many ways.
I hope today is the day that everyone connected with the club can support him without any hesitation.
I don't get this as an excuse, Mourinho isn't responsible for the lack of goals ?
So if we would be conceding too many goals you would say if our defenders could defend we would be first, job wel done mourinho ?
If Zlatan was a faster forward who could stretch the defense and not drop deep , We would have converted those draws into wins and be competing for the title.
Yeah, because the chances are being created. A manager can't physically take chances for his attacking players. They have to finish them.
We're also not getting bailed out by otherworldy performances from DDG this year, which is why Mou has received more credit for our defensive record than LVG did. You can question Mourinho's team selection at times or how he's given certain players more leeway than others, but the inability to put away chances and bang in goals falls on the players themselves.
seems a contradiction to me.
I support a football team: my role is to provide motivational support to the club to help them win, which in turns makes me feel good. I'm not a board member or involved in any other way.
Sure, you can hypothesise alternative decisions or scenario's to allow you to expand your knowledge or entertainment but to actively disagree and aggressively criticise seems a strange way to support.
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Please specifically explain why you think he is responsible. What else can he personally do to rectify the situation?
Leave it open so the charlatans can keep embarrassing themselves.
But you don't actually agree with everything Mourinho says and does do you? You have your opinions I take it?
Yes I have my own opinions but I'm more interested in understanding why our manager makes his decisions.
It makes no sense for me to disagree as I'm not a football expert (despite being a fan for 30 years), don't ever have full information and my disagreements wont change anything.
So rather than disagree, I try to understand why our manger has reached his decisions, and then support him. That increases my enjoyment from the game. I was the same with SAF & LVG - I had no respect for Moyes so just switched off with him.
Definitely my favorite GIF of the year so far
Any room left up in the ivory tower?
Ok but you have ever to understand when criticisng others that's a very unusual way you're viewing football. Football fans throughout history have disagreed with the manager and voiced those opinions.
If you choose to agree with everything Mourinho says and does in the name of supporting him fine. But understand most other fans feel capable of disagreeing with him on isolated decisions and supporting him in general.
I agree.
I fail to see how anyone could blame Jose for our attackers inability to convert chances in to goals.
Jose has done well this season to say it's his first one, next year we will be right up there challenging I have no doubts
i still don't like Mourinho, but today was at least the Mourinho we where hoping to get, putting out a tactically astute team that could dominate a team for and hour get a lead, then shut up shop and take the points..... was possibly the first classic Mourinho performance we have seen from his united side.
I don't know if its unusual. What I do understand is that its extremely arrogant and foolish to think a fan knows better than Mourinho, Ferguson and others.
I will take the side of the manager every time over any fan. Made my enjoyment of the game wonderful all these years.
Very true.
Many more will come, Mourinho of the past is gone this is the United Mourinho. And Unlike Pep giardiola Mourinho is a very flexible manager who has a plan B and plan C. Our Plan A is the same as Guardiola.
I think the ability and execution of players to do anything from defending all the way up to scoring goals on the pitch determines everything all the time.
However that ability and excution is greatly impacted by the manager in many ways. First there are ofcourse the tactics and game plan, second there are the training sessions, third there is the coaching and man management and finally there are the transfers and team selection as the manager ultimately decides who is brought into the club and who isn't and who plays and who doesn't.
A striker scoring a goal or not is influenced by alot of things:
- His own quality and talent
- His technique
- His self-confidence in his own quality and technique
- His motivation
- The amount of chances and the quality of the chances he is given to score the goal
I wonder if they are playing on the correct positions, if the chances we create are actually good enough for them to score goals out off and if their confidence hasn't been negatively affected by Mourinho.
In case of Martial I think his confidence and motivation is the problem why he is not scoring and that is something Mourinho is responsible for.
In case of Rashford I think the problem is he has been playing on the wrong positions to score alot of goals as he is not a winger but a central striker which is something Mourinho decides upon.
In case of Rooney I think the problem is simply he hasn't got the quality anymore to score goals and hence should not be played and moved out of the club which Mourinho seems to grasp and is doing.
Overall I also think we don't score enough goals because the quality of our chances is not optimal. We create chances but in a very predictable manner which makes it easy to defend upon and we have very little chances coming off good crosses, quality long passes or intelligent and well executed through balls which always leaves the strikers with alot to do to score the goals and hence we don't score alot of goals. There are very little chances where the striker just has to do a tap in or is put in a good position where he can easily have a clear and good shot on the goal. All these things matter alot in how many goals we score/miss
Finally I also think we have a mentality problem in the sense that we are content to win matches without scoring alot of goals. Mourinho would be overjoyed if he would win the majority of his games with just 1 goal, he values holding on to a clean sheet more than serving up enjoyable attacking football. Hence when we have a lead we often take our foot from the pedal and don't try to get a second or third let alone fourth goal because the thinking seems to be ingrained that 1 goals is enough and we don't need much more than that. Obviously this also costs us points if we concede late equalisers. There just isn't a klling mentality in the team, I think we will never see United totally shredding an opponent to pieces and scoring like 5 or more goals in a match just because they don't want to play like that even tough they could (in certain matches).
These are all things Murinho has an impact on but somehow is completley absolved from all criticism. Our problems are deeper and more complex than our strikers re simply out of form or we have bad luck and all will come good again in time.
It's a game, entertainment, everyone having an opinion is part of the fun. It's nothing to do with arrogance.
Like I said you have a rare take on this. Worth keeping in mind I think when discussing this stuff with others.
If we all just blindly agreed with managers there'd be no Redcafe, no punditry, no radio shows etc.
You've never called something right that a manager got wrong?
@sammsky1 How come poor old David Moyes doesn't get the benefit of your unfettered credulity?
Who is absolving him of all criticism? You want to blame him for the squad selection? Go for it. I don't think he's been flawless in that area at all. Substitutions? He's made questionable decisions for sure.
It's when you say it's a lack of confidence or playing certain players in wrong positions that I disagree. Mata has played "out of position" as an RW and yet he's been our 2nd best finisher this season. Mkhi has received many opportunities to play through the middle in which he hasn't produced anything and fluffed chances. Martial has played wide left, as he did last year when he was banging in goals, and had an up and down season, though with him I feel Mourinho has had a bit too short of a leash, especially lately. Is it Mourinho's fault Pogba's shots are magnetically attracted to the woodwork?
No, I'm not absolving him of all criticism which is some farcical strawman you've created and then argued against. I'm saying that our lack of goals isn't because he's created a system or structure in which chances aren't being created. If you want to blame some of it for his man management or squad selection that's fair, but if players are getting chances in every match and failing to put them away then the blame should fall mostly on them.
So people were arrogant to think that for example Moyes wasn't a good candidate to takeover after SAF ? Because SAF clearly tought that he was the best man for the job and clearly he wasn't.
I can name literally thousands of examples where fans disagreed with the decisions of the manager and were later proved absolutley right in doing so. On the otherside there are also alot of examples on the other side where managers had it right and some fans where totally wrong.
You don't need to be an expert in something to have an opnion about it and everybody is free to have an opnion which can contradict with what the club does or which decisions the manager makes. It is the same reason why people are allowed and should criticise on what happens in the economy or politics without having to be an economist or politician.
Having studied how SAF's brain worked for 26 years, there was not much I was going to learn or enjoy by analysing Moyes. He was not an elite coach nor had much knowledge about our club so not much to enjoy about his knowledge of the game.
But even then, I was not vocal in my disdain out of respect to SAF who ordered us to support him. I think I made my first public comments against him in about March, even though I knew he was a dud by end of November.
Agree. Some of the stuff I read on here amazes me. We've now got a poster saying it's arrogant and foolish to have your own opinion.
So you do have an opinion, you hypocrite. You just don't express it and look down on the vocal fools that the rest of us are.
For me it is very simple Mourinho is responsible for everything even if he can't inluence everything directly.
If strikers struggle to score goals, it is his task to find out why that is and try to find ways of resolving this. Could be the striker isn't good enough, you sell him and get a better one, is it confidence than help them with coaching them properly, is it technique than improve their technique by giving tips and organising training sessions for it or find a specialist who can help with that. There alot of things a manager can do, chosing which ones to do and which ones not to do is the manager's decision but ultimatley he is responsible for the way we play and scoring goals is a part of that just as much as defending or anything else.
That is why I will never agree with people saying Mourinho is doing an excellent job and the scoring of goals is outside of his responsability. It simply isn't true.
The ease with which you combine conceit and supposed humbleness is incredible. You've 'studied how Sir Alex's brain worked' have you?
Triple LMA manager of the year, but some thicko on the internet knew he was a dud in November. Nothing if not humility.David Moyes, on the day of his appointment, arrived with little to no credentials to support his claim of being capable of managing a club of our size and stature. He was the Everton manager who never won anything in his career, had never managed larger than life characters who you would associate with a big club. In truth he was a nobody. A nobody entrusted with the everyday management of one of the biggest football clubs in the industry. And he inevitabley failed.
Jose Mourinho, the polar opposite in this case, came with a huge reputation. He had won everything there was to win. He had managed Porto, Chelsea, Inter and Real and led them all to varying degrees of success. He is a natural born winner and a true leader of men - very much in the mould of the great man himself SAF - the type of manager that commands your trust, your respect and your admiration. Why would you not give him time to work his magic?
David Moyes, through no fault of his own, did not warrant our faith. Jose Mourinho flat out commands it.
The 2 men are incomparable. Apples and oranges.
Quite insecure aren't you?The ease with which you combine conceit and supposed humbleness is incredible. You've 'studied how Sir Alex's brain worked' have you?
That's all true, if a bit banal, but it has nothing to do with my question. He was making a silly argument from authority, but then left out Moyes out of it, even though he (Moyes) is just as overqualified relative to all of us.
That's the point. Ca va sans dire that Mourinho has better credentials.
Maybe Mourinho could do better with our attackers, but I sure as hell know our attackers should be doing better with the chances created. That they can't or haven't is largely their fault.
Ty? That you???
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