We'll also become the first side to ever to win 30 games (in a 38 game season).
Chelsea under Conte | Let's sign the next Hazard, literally.
- Thread starter Gandalf Greyhame
- Start date
True, and not just in a 38-game season. United and Blackburn only managed to win 27 matches in 42 games.
That's tremendous and and it'll be decades before that's surpassed. 30 wins in a 38 match league is insane.
Chelsea will have only dropped points in 8 matches all season and yet we've had people on here call them flawed and insist that they're not a great side.
They aren't a great side though. They are just the best team in a very weak PL season. They have guys like Cahill and Moses starting...this Chelsea team wouldn't be able to compete with 2006-2009 United or 2004-2006 Chelsea.
Whilst everyone is saying this, everyone keeps arguing about how competitive the league is now and how much better the bottom 10 are. That surely makes it more impressive compared to 'better' sides from 10 years back who couldn't manage it against a poorer overall league.
If they win their remaining matches, this will be the most impressive premier league campaign by a team, for me. Perhaps United's 2009 season (90 points) would be up there better competition but this will be something really special.
I'd rank this above Chelsea's 2005 season. There were literally no challengers back then as United went through a complete rebuild, working in Fletcher, Park, Rooney and getting Ronaldo settled in, while Wenger's last great team were on their last legs and on the verge of being torn apart for their rebuild.
This year, they've had to go against the most expensive football team ever assembled (United), the 3rd most expensive side ever assembled in City, a very good Tottenham team, and outside challengers in Liverpool and Arsenal.
They haven't just won the title. They've stormed to it and are on their way to becoming the only team in history to win 30 matches in a season, on top of making an F.A. cup final with as chance to complete the domestic double.
Well done Conte. Well done Chelsea.
Who did 2004-2006 Chelsea compete against?
Our United team was a joke back then. O'Shea and Giggs were our midfield centre pairing. Even Ferguson couldn't get that lot to compete and it was only when baby Ronaldo and Rooney developed into star players that we became a bit more consistent and got to challenge towards the end of the decade.
I don't know if it's fair to penalise Chelsea just because the rest of the premier league teams haven't pulled their ends of the bargain. Lots of teams have underperformed. Having said that, Chelsea haven't just shaded this, they've romped to it.
Last seasons failings have been Chelseas benefits this season.. they are a good side no doubt, not a great.
They also played CL football though. Chelsea this season didn't.
Because they are not, unless you have a looser definition of what a great side is. They have not had the distraction of europe as the 4 of of the top 6 has had to contend with.
Great sides are 1998/99 and 2007/2008 United sides who won trebles and league and CL doubles and went on to retain PL titles. Or the Barcelona side of 2009 to 2012 or 2015 ect. Unless they defend the title or do something serious in in the CL next season no one is going barely remember Chelsea winning it if ever, and I don't see Barca , Real Madrid , Bayern and Juventus ect quaking in their boots at the thought of this 'great' side in the CL next season. FFs, Mourhino's early Chelsea team was better then this one and they could not get to a CL final.
Conte's review of the season:
Interesting debate last night on TalkSport regarding who is better, Conte or Mourinho (when at Chelsea). The majority of Chelsea fans who rang up and Tony Cascarino all rated Conte higher because he is "tactically better because he has a full week to work with them" and then in the same aruemeng denied that not having European football contributed to it.
Mourinho's first Chelsea side was better than this one.
Far too early to talk about Conte being better for Chelsea overall.
If you listen to Talksport you should be prepared to hear a load of bollocks. If you go into McDonalds you are going to get shit food.
I've got some massive man love for Mourinho that will never die, but I have to say that Conte surpasses him comparing their first seasons, taking into account the quality of the league etc. I do think Conte is tactically a better manager, and some players have hinted as much in interviews this season. But he has a long way to go to reach the heights of Jose at the club.
I think the easiest way to put it is that Conte is a hybrid of Mourinho and Pep. Pragmatic but leans towards developing good tactical systems.
As a huge Pep fan i must agree. Conte is Italian so it's somewhat normal to be pragmatic. But he learned a lot from Marcelo Lippi and Carlo Ancelotti wich are in my opinion the most flexible and different representatives from the "Old guard" of the Italian coaching school. For example the build up play from Chelsea this year was most of the times even better than Guardiola's City. Conte is a system believer, he relies on it to make his team better even if some parts of it are not that good. But when is needed he can play just for the result (like the Liverpool away game). Well deserved champion in his first season.
Yep. It was interesting when I heard Guardiola say that he learns a lot from watching Conte's teams play and rates him as arguably the best in the world. After a full season I can see why. Not only did he work out a system which suited the players he had at his disposal to a tee (He initially wanted to use 4231 and 424), but he also made a bold decision in dropping JT and Ivanovic which takes some balls.
He got a bit lucky with the JT and Ivanovic situations. They both got injured and their replacements were near faultless. There was no dramatic "dropping" of either of them.
If neither had been injured I think it would have have been more difficult for him.
Semantics. It was still a big decision to not bring them back into the starting side.
I respectfully disagree. I love Conte so far, but in that first Mourinho season we were truly incredible! We were a ghost goal away from the CL final and set so many records in the league: most away wins in a season (15), most clean sheets kept in a season (25), fewest goals conceded away in a season (9), most wins in a season (29), most consecutive away wins (9), fewest goals conceded in a season (15), most points in a season (95). The only record we might break this season is the most wins, and if we didn't have CL football that year I'm convinced we could have won closer to 38 games.
Full marks to conte and his boys. Not a huge fan of conte but he deserves whole lot of credit for turning those mercenaries to play well for him.
Having said that, I won't say this Chelsea side is one of the best title winning sides. This is not even the best Chelsea sides I have ever seen. The one built by jose was tremendous, not just saying because he is our manager but because hated playing against that Chelsea side. Also, rate the squad under ancelotti, goals everywhere under him. If conte can recreate the same next season then my appreciation of him and his team will grow even higher. As of now full marks to him.
Having said that, I won't say this Chelsea side is one of the best title winning sides. This is not even the best Chelsea sides I have ever seen. The one built by jose was tremendous, not just saying because he is our manager but because hated playing against that Chelsea side. Also, rate the squad under ancelotti, goals everywhere under him. If conte can recreate the same next season then my appreciation of him and his team will grow even higher. As of now full marks to him.
Wonder where they go from here. Hard to see where they can strengthen the starting 11 unless its to replace an outgoing Costa.
It will be interesting to see how they handle Europe next season. While I don't think they will fall apart because of a minimum 6 extra games they have to play like some are predicting I don't think they will be as comfortable in the league as they were this year.
It will be interesting to see how they handle Europe next season. While I don't think they will fall apart because of a minimum 6 extra games they have to play like some are predicting I don't think they will be as comfortable in the league as they were this year.
I think that Chelsea might try to obtain a galatico type signing this off season (Neymar, Mbappe, Verratti, Modric, etc)
Chelsea probably will lose Costa so a new 9 is needed. Matic, Moses, Cahill would be other areas they could upgrade. Matic is a bit stiff and lacks great passing range and Fabregas is too slow and can't play a 50 game schedule in the PL.
Fair enough but that was a superior team in a weaker league. To take this current side from having a horrible season, and then maximising the impact of Moses, Alonso, Cahill, Luiz. Getting Hazard, Costa, Pedro firing on all cylinders again and possibly breaking another record this Sunday. 30 wins in this competitive league is just insane. So for me Conte just edges it.I respectfully disagree. I love Conte so far, but in that first Mourinho season we were truly incredible! We were a ghost goal away from the CL final and set so many records in the league: most away wins in a season (15), most clean sheets kept in a season (25), fewest goals conceded away in a season (9), most wins in a season (29), most consecutive away wins (9), fewest goals conceded in a season (15), most points in a season (95). The only record we might break this season is the most wins, and if we didn't have CL football that year I'm convinced we could have won closer to 38 games.
Can see it. They'll need a plan B formation wise, so players who can play in that. Cahill's had a good season but was getting pelters last year (like half the squad to be fair), he's a good enough cb for a top side but with some glaring faults, they could do better, though have some depth there anyway. The wing backs have had really good seasons but could be upgraded. Matic is good but similarly there are better players out there and could do with some more competition there- squad options in those positions aren't super and they'll have Europe to deal with.
If Costa does go, will be interesting to see how that affects how the team play, there are players who can get more goals but he's so important in the build up and his defensive work, can't think of many available strikers who have all of those qualities but they'll need to look at that too.
You have to put things in context. Conte inherited a squad that had won the league two season prior and simply had a post championship slump (which is not unique). He reinforced same squad and had no European commitments. It is dubious to credit the success to him without considering how favorable the conditions were for him.
The second season is always a better measure, as what ever was inherited has a lesser effect. If you want a fairer comparison, wait till the second season. If Conte delivers next season then we can compare his performance to previous second season performances by Mourinho, but if he fails to deliver, then it can be said is first season success was due more to the favorable conditions than to him being a great manager
It wasn't s easy as "just a post championship slump". Courtois,Costa were heavily linked with moves away. Matic had lost all confidence in his abilities and wanted to leave Chelsea with Juve lingering. Terry,Brana were past it. The negative atmosphere around the club blew out the confidence from every person in the club. The transfers bar ,which came good,were nothing short of panic buys(bar Kante,Michy) and Luiz,Alonso weren't ready before the Arsenal game.This was the scenario before the season started and let's not forget Conte had a shorter preseason and planning to do unlike other coaches of top 6.
And then the season starts... First 3 games were barely convincing wins and then defeats to Arsenal and Liverpool created more doubts within the club.This is where Conte came to the fore and absolutely stamped the 343 and chose the starting 11 acc. to it. Victor Moses,Alonso,Luiz,Pedro came in and several players played in a position for the first time in their lives..so this wasn't the same Mourinho team or tactics that won the 14/15 PL trophy..far from it. Talking about lack of European games, last time i checked even Pool didn't have them and what shit did they do this season? You will bring how Chelsea were lucky with injuries but a quick check on our injury record this past decade will show you that it isn't luck but a proper way the club has devised to treat players and maintain the fitness levels up.
Similarly,Spurs effectively played 5 extra UCL games since i very clearly remember how Poch rested his key players in a crucial UCL game to keep them fresh for Chelsea and lol they got knocked out. They exited the Europa early as well playing some second string. So,the narrative that Spurs had European games to contend with is true yet insignificant.
All said and done,yes! the lack of European football came in handy to Conte and the team to adapt to a new style but let it not overshadow the quality Conte has shown to bring us back to the top.Easier said than done. And no i don't agree this team is better than the 04-05 Mourinho team or even Ancelotti's. That's just post Championship winning excitement talking.
Our record playing league games when we had a previous game 5 or less days before reads played 18 won 14 drew 1 lost 3, two of the three defeat's came before the formation change, the other was at White Hart Lane where almost everyone got beat and the draw was away to Liverpool who didn't lose a single big game all season. Ofcourse we will face more that circumstance next season but Conte has passed every single test he has faced so far, what makes anyone think this hurdle will get him? Retaining the title will be tough but anyone who thinks we will now fall into obscurity are in for a very rude awakening.
This team are better than our 2010 counterparts, even more so if you include the manager's in the argument.
Terry yes, but Ivan was dropped before injured, he was on the bench for the first 343 game at Hull.
Debatable. That team was ridiculusly fluid in attack with many players at their best form. Speaking of which,i think Ashley Cole woud have been a god wingback in Conte's system and Malouda whipping in those crosses to Drogba is orgasm worthy. Ivanovic would have made a terrific wingback back then too.
Was the most entertaining on song i won't argue with that, but the way we ended that season covered up some crack's which turned into gaping holes the following year. The squad was on it's last legs and most times we played more than once a week we were lethargic at best and awful at worst, the biggest example would be Spurs away, we had a FA Cup semi and a midweek march before hand and despite Spurs having the exact same schedule (they were actually at a disadvantage due to playing the cup semi a day later plus ET then an emotional NLD) they were much fresher than us and frankly we were lucky to not be on the receiving end of some of the scores we were dishing out.
Well,we could also argue how this squad has holes to fill. If we don't then the cracks will appear just like in 2010. Our midfield two isn't the best in carrying the ball out whwn pressured as seen against Spurs. Dembele and Wanyama exposed this totally. A 2 way CM is required and Kante has also shown improvement offensively.Our rwb, Moses, has been terrific this season but it's clear how poor his crossing is once he gets to the byline and the lack of height/positional sense has been exposed by teams exploiting it with crosses into the right side of the box. The UCL teams next season will no doubt look to exploit these weaknesses. So, it's really debatable whether this side is greater than 2010 one and has fewer holes. Guess we have to wait for next season to see for ourselves.
That is choosing one side of 'the context'. Jose inherited a side that was 2nd in the league the year before and subsequently spent about 100m (unadjusted for inflation) on players that he wanted. To call last season simply a post championship slump is drastically understating what transpired.
My argument was simply based on a comparison of their 1st seasons. The 2nd season is irrelevant to my point.
I don't think he had favourable conditions at all, especially when we get specific. The 14/15 team was built in Ivanovic in his prime, a duo of Terry and Cahill playing close and deep with Azpilicueta staying close to Terry to offer mlre protection against lack of pace. Matic was still in the best form since we bought him the January before and Hazard was pfa quality as was Costa. However, as most chelsea fans know, by the turn of the year, we were spanked 5-2 by spurs and the rug unravelled. Matic form took a dip and never recovered. Fabregas' defensive frailties were more and more apparent. Costa's goals dried up and Oscar (like always) became a toothless number 10 by December. Mourinho halted the slide by playing incredibly defensive football and relying on Hazard for the second half of the season.
The next season wasn't an abrupt dip. It was a continuation of the form we had been seeing since January. Matic seemed to be in permanently bad form, Oscar was still toothless, Fabregas was still someone you could walk past with the ball except now Ivanovic decided to be one of those players who get to a certain age and then collapse. Terry's decline wasn't much slower. Cahill was seen to be quite a liability when he isn't camped in his own box with the play in front of him and was dripped for Zouma. So then we didn't even have a solid defence to rely on when things went to shit like the title winning season.
This should all be apparent in Conte's first few games. Ivanovic was still almost laughable defensively (it pains me to say, he will always be a legend) Terry was still lost at sea a few moments a game and Cahill was still a liability. Fabregas was still a ghost defensively and so wasn't even in the team. Oscar was obviously considered a poor number 10, given more defensive duties to at least compensate. But being a yappy dog pressing defenders doesn't translate to being solid in CM.
Conte didn't inherit the defence that won the title. He inherited the drastically declining version. He didn't inherit the midfield that pulled all the strings either, but a poor imitation. There's a reason Luiz, Alonso and Kante were bought.
One thing I sill say is that Conte got the title winning Costa. It was only because of him that we won the first 3 games.
This is why Chelsea fans already think he is the real deal. He won the league with Victor Moses, [Irrelevant point] and David Luiz for crying out loud. Cahill is still a liability, just check the firsr few games of the season. But the formation hides his many flaws and puts him in a position to do well. As it does for Dave, Luiz, Moses, Alonso, Kante, Hazard, Pedro and Willian.
Comparing this team with the 2004-2006 team is silly. That team had top class players in almost all 11 positions. We have around 4 now.
If Conte had Makelele, Essien and Lampard in midfield he would be licking his lips in excitement
If Conte had Makelele, Essien and Lampard in midfield he would be licking his lips in excitement
Perspective is king here: Chelsea under Conte must go deep in all competitions, say a CL semis together with contending seriously for both the league and the FA cup. That's a great team.
I don't think he's that important in the build up. He's been dog shite since January, finishing and link up play alike. It's one of the reasons why I don't understand the Lukaku hate. We've basically watched a shit Costa for a season and a half now, the ball bounces off of his foot routinely but we're gonna look that over and criticize his potential replacement? Costa's work rate cannot be questioned though, maybe he is part English?
Excellent post, although I'd disagree with you about when exactly Ivanovic's decline began (much earlier than you inform us). I feel like a lot of people are also forgetting Conte tried playing 3 different formations before he landed on the 343. He knew something was wrong with the team and went out of his comfort zone to get the best out of his players.
I get that having no European football is an advantage but still, they got 93 points ffs! How the hell did that happen? The record is 95...
30 wins too, most ever in a PL season. They're just genuinely a very, very good side.
A good team with an advantage over all the rest. Next season will be much closer.