Are we actually that far away?

Ramshock

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Lol. We are so bloody far away that only DDG can walk into their starting 11. Pogba probably will make the bench though. Lets not be unrealistic cos in terms of quality, we are not even top 10 in Europe.
Thats not how football works. People always forget about the team dynamic whilst spouting "wouldnt get into their first XI" bullshit.

Would RM beat us 6 or 7 out of 10 times right now? likely yes but its more than just comparing players in each position.

I expect the Super Cup to be more competitive than the CL final.
 

Ramshock

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Miles off. Let's not delude ourselves here, we were nowhere near good enough to mount a serious challenge for 4th this season - so in terms of title contention or CL success, we're a country mile off.

I'm just not seeing this excellent team that's suddenly gonna 'click' and explode into life. As it stands, we're a top 6 team with a big wage-bill. Of course, that can all change.
Its June
 

Chuckazulu

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We definitely are.

They have quality through out their squad, depth and quite some young talented lads for the future. I believe we can get all this with our buying power but we can never get their superior chemistry. They are a team, they play as a team and it's what sets them apart. I also believe that is Zidane's greatest achievement since he took over.

So as much as we can buy some quality we need to build on team chemistry to reach that level.
 

amolbhatia50k

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In terms of PL competitiveness, were not all that far off. But when it comes to the likes of Madrid and Barcelona, were not remotely close.

At right back we have Valencia instead of Carvajal. At left back we have Darmian instead of Marcelo or Alba. In center of defence we don't have a pique or Ramos who are comfortable on the ball. In attack we can barely score goals. These teams are littered with class. Most of their midfielders would be our best if they in our team.

I think we need to take not and start buying played of a certain quality. Of late we've signed players like Schneiderlin and Memphis for good money who would be laughed out of Madrid/Barcelona. Madrid haven't been short of talent but have instead spent their time signing players like Isco who at times doesn't even start. Their standards are very high.
 

AndyJ1985

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We're a long way off tbh. There are so many holes that need filling and far too many mediocre squad players in the first team. So many of our players are slow and lacking in technical ability. Don't know how we've managed to spend so much to assemble such a poor squad, but it is what it is. Just hope we get the next few transfer windows right to rectify the mistakes made by the last two clowns that were in charge.
 

KristianMackle

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How far away are we? How far is to travel from London to the planet Neptune?

I think we can close the gap a bit depending on who we buy this summer. Madrid are not unbeatable and can be got at as they hate defending. With the right players, we can have a real good at them
 

Fredo

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We need to compete for the Premier League title let alone the CL in order to really compare ourselves to the other clubs. Real, Bayern, Juventus, Barcelona have been at the top level for the past 4-5 years now, competing for the 1st position year in year out over that period, whereas we have been shambolic across different competitions, bar this year where we had to do what we had to do in order to get in the CL again.

The level of football we saw this year in the CL, mainly in the knockout stages where Madrid have been involved has been nothing short of supreme football, their team plays really really well, they have top players in every single position.

We are miles away but at least we moved one step forward this year by winning the EL, this summer transfer window and the next one will be vital for us to build a capable team.
 

Theonas

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Even with a new team it wouldn't change much. The single biggest difference make is the fact that they have players who can score or create out of nowhere. It is often underestimated how big that is in football in how it improves every other area. This comparison of position for position is absurd as no position functions independent of the rest of the team. Put for example Barcelona's front three and the way they were playing in 2015 and about half a dozed teams would have won the treble. So in short, PL teams are not far away in the sense that they are organised and have some very good players indeed, but they ARE far away in the sense that they have nowhere near the game changing quality of Real and Barcelona that is manifested usually in two or three players. The bad news is that type of player is out of reach which makes me believe there is no chance in hell we or any other PL team will be near them until Ronaldo and Messi stop being inhuman.
 

dogwithabone

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It's ridiculous when people say things like 'light years away'. We aren't at their current level but anyone care to name me a team who are ?

You'd think we were comparing Brazil c1970 to Altrincham c2017 the way some go on. DDG would get in their side, I'd take Pogba over Kroos. Bailly and a match sharp Rojo wouldn't look out of place in their defence, nor Valencia. Herrera could well be on their radar if he puts in another good season. We have no one who can get near Ronaldo but neither does anyone else. They're 25-35 goals better than us and that adds up to basically a once in a generation freak of footballing nature and a guaranteed 25 goal a season striker.

Not sure we can unearth the next Ronaldo but we will get guaranteed goals for next season and then it's a case of evolving as a team. We will give anyone a game a year from now - Madrid included.
 

Adam-Utd

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We shall see in the super cup, but honestly I think we will put up a better fight than Juventus did.

Ronaldo is always the game changer, I wouldn't be surprised if we man marked him like we did Hazard.

it'll be fun though, as long as we don't get absolutely dominated it'll be a good measure for us.

I hope we can get Fabinho and match them 4-3-3, I honestly think Herrera+Pogba can give Modric/Kroos a good battle.
 

Varun

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It's not just about having players as good as them. It's also about getting them to perform at a high level as a unit. We're quite some way off the former, once we get there, it'll take some time to match them at the 2nd aspect.
 

RepardReece

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Manchester United are far away from Real Madrid at this current state, but to be honest I haven't seen a team close to them. Barcelona haven't been at their best all season and the only other team I'd say is even remotely close is Juventus, who just got hammered by them in the Champions League final. I think if we get the right signings during the transfer window bar Griezmann, we'll have a chance of competing for the league title, and possibly going far in the Champions League. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Real Madrid won the CL again next year if they keep up their current form.

There are a few players I reckon would be able to fit in the squad though.
David De Gea would 100% be in the starting lineup.
Bailly would be a good shout alongside Ramos but would probably interchange with Varane etc here and there.
Pogba/Herrera would make the bench, and start every so often.
Valencia may be a good shout over Carvajal at RB, proved to be one of the best in his position this year.

Attacking trio at Real Madrid wouldn't change, as we have lacked all season in that position in front of goal bar Ibrahimovic who still has missed plenty of chances.
So a few players could start ahead of some of Real Madrids, but we are a long way from competing with them at the moment, improve on goal scoring and we would have a shout. And to be realistic, Herrera may be able to man mark Ronaldo like he did with Hazard, that would make it a whole lot harder for Real Madrid, and give us a chance.
 

Jib

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MILES away right now. We are behind the likes of Bayern, Juventus, Barcelona by some distance aswell. Before we can even think about matching these teams again we need to get our own ship in order and build with quality. If the players we are being linked with are anything to go by, it will be some time yet. That is why the Griezmann transfer would of been a game changer for us in more ways than one. Only Pogba and De Gea would get into pretty much any team in the world. The rest we massively overrate or just nowhere near good enough and arguably shouldn't even be at this club. I honestly think we are about 5-6 top class players away from Real, and when you consider what calibre of player is on the market this Summer it just shows that it is a huge distance.
This
 

Theonas

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It's ridiculous when people say things like 'light years away'. We aren't at their current level but anyone care to name me a team who are ?

You'd think we were comparing Brazil c1970 to Altrincham c2017 the way some go on. DDG would get in their side, I'd take Pogba over Kroos. Bailly and a match sharp Rojo wouldn't look out of place in their defence, nor Valencia. Herrera could well be on their radar if he puts in another good season. We have no one who can get near Ronaldo but neither does anyone else. They're 25-35 goals better than us and that adds up to basically a once in a generation freak of footballing nature and a guaranteed 25 goal a season striker.

Not sure we can unearth the next Ronaldo but we will get guaranteed goals for next season and then it's a case of evolving as a team. We will give anyone a game a year from now - Madrid included.
Absolutely agree. The hyperboles every year are ludicrous. Light years away from a team should mean if you face them, they will beat you 4 or 5/0 without breaking a sweat. Real will look stronger than anybody in the PL now but it will be competitive. What bugs me is that people acknowledge Ronaldo to be one of the best of all time and seem to underestimate what a significant of a factor this is when comparing. If you put two equal teams in every area and just add one player of his calibre (all time great) to one of them, that alone will be the difference between a CL win and a 1/4 or semi final. The point is as good as this Real side is, take him away and we'd be talking about just another very good team who competes the same away that many other teams do. Sadly this means that attaining Barcelona or Real's level currently is out of the question regardless of who we buy because there are only two players of that calibre in world football.
 

El Zoido

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MILES away right now. We are behind the likes of Bayern, Juventus, Barcelona by some distance aswell. Before we can even think about matching these teams again we need to get our own ship in order and build with quality. If the players we are being linked with are anything to go by, it will be some time yet. That is why the Griezmann transfer would of been a game changer for us in more ways than one. Only Pogba and De Gea would get into pretty much any team in the world. The rest we massively overrate or just nowhere near good enough and arguably shouldn't even be at this club. I honestly think we are about 5-6 top class players away from Real, and when you consider what calibre of player is on the market this Summer it just shows that it is a huge distance.
And this is why we'll never be as good. 4 out of 5 of those "top class" players will end up at Madrid before us. Unless we have another class of '92 golden generation we'll never compete because hardly any players are going to pick us over Madrid. Previously we'd go for the top British talent, but even that's not happening anymore. We need to get our youth structure in order and supplement it with a superstar.
 

LoveFootball

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Of course we are far away from Madrid! From the fan's mentality to the quality of the players. We do have players such as Fellaini, Rashford and Lingard starting for us and being praised for average performances! Even Madrid bench is far better than our starting eleven. Only DDG, Pogba and Herrera can claim a place in their team.

We're not not that far away from challenging for the league but many players need to be replaced; Fellaini, Lingard, Rashford, Darmian shouldn't be starting for us (especially Fellaini, we must bring back Perreira to replace him).

We need more quality and decisive players to be an European monster again; we need a Neymar, a Verratti, a Mbappe or a Aubamyang.
 

RyRy11

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Football is a fickle and cyclical sport, as long as Jose can get the most out of the players we have we shouldn't have an issue getting into the top 4 like we have struggled to do since SAF. Its more difficult than throwing billions at new signings and hoping we progress as a team.
 

Jim Beam

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Football is a team sport, it's all about getting most out of the team. Can't see the point in discussing who would be in their starting lineup.

How many of Juventus players would get in Real starting lineup looking at them individually? You could say their defense but based on that second half performance not even them. Still they are definitely not that far behind them despite that final game.

When we met Real last time in CL in 2013 individually we were also far behind them but we were unlucky not to go through. And we had Welbeck, Cleverley and Giggs at 39 years of age in the starting lineup at Old Trafford.

Currently as a team, we are functioning well at the back but need to sort our attacking issues and become ruthless in that department which was a trademark for Jose's previous teams.
 

tentan

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Yes. We're Europa League level at best, as it showed last season.
 

rpg

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Anybody can beat anybody , i wouldnt be surprised if Burnley can beat Real Madrid on an exceptional day. But over the course of a season, our team is too far behind Real at the moment and no one except De Gea could walk into their 11. Just voicing my opinion but football is a very subjective thing as there are some even argue that Martial- Rashford combo is better than Ronaldo- Bale in future.
 

Minimalist

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I'd only concern ourselves with winning the league and even still, yes we are far away.

Centre backs need a proper leader. We need a reliable goalscorer (Ibra withstanding). We need competition in midfield too, with options that reliably replace/step in for both Pogba and Herrera.

Currently United are functional, uninspiring and yet there's a bit of grit there (hence our two trophies). It's not good enough to win top prizes though and coaching is part of it, regardless of who we bring into the playing staff.
 

Shady

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Even Chelsea, Spurs and City are far away from the European elite. We are miles off. 7th, 4th, 5th and 6th is our record after Fergie. Liverpool standard.
 

togg

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And this is why we'll never be as good. 4 out of 5 of those "top class" players will end up at Madrid before us. Unless we have another class of '92 golden generation we'll never compete because hardly any players are going to pick us over Madrid. Previously we'd go for the top British talent, but even that's not happening anymore. We need to get our youth structure in order and supplement it with a superstar.
Yes that is the thing. It's not a question about money obviously....it's more do the best players want to come to Manchester and play for us, and pretty much every time they will go to Real Madrid which I think has been and is the benchmark of a players career status and probably always will be, not to mention the weather and culture. We've never bought a load of top class players, we've always done it the harder way. Our success if Europe was the exception rather than the rule. Which means, if we buy well this summer, we might be able to compete better and then hope lady luck is also on our side to push us over the line! But I think it would be foolish to think next season we can be near the RM level...a little closer perhaps...but still a long way off.....
 

AshRK

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People forget it is all a process. Where were real madrid 7 or 8 years ago, constantly changing manager struggling to reach beyond ro16. Jose came and brought the winning mentality and even then it took them time to get it right. Don't forget they have a guy named ronaldo who can win you matches on his own .

Where were juventus 4 or 5 seasons ago. It's all a process, and we have to be patient. Bayern 10 years ago were playing in uefa cup and finishing 3rd or 4th in a below par bundes liga . It's not that easy like many make out and also nothing is permanent. Without ronaldo , real won't win half of their crucial matches. Look at the run he makes, he is the best number 9 in the world football. Imagine this, had we had ronaldo leading our line up and with the amount of chances pogba makes , he would have scored 40 plus goals hear too. He wouldn't be missing 50 percent of those chances.

Football like any other sports is a cycle and right now real madrid barca and Bayern to an extent are dominating world football but in another 4 or 5 years when there will be no messi or ronaldo , you could see other clubs again dominating.
 

davidmichael

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From Madrid...Yes
From the league...No
Pretty much this, if we'd had a flat track bully like Lukaku this season to turn the majority of our draws into wins we'd have run Chelsea close whilst still trying to gel as a team and work out our best 11 and formation.

We need to add quality to 5 positions with a centre back, first choice left back, defensive midfielder, wide forward/winger and an out and out striker and then I think we're there domestically but as far as Real who apart from De Gea and maybe a top form Pogba gets into their starting 11 ?
 

ash_86

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We are comparing a team that has won the Champions league to a team that has not been in that competition. We were closer to Madrid when SAF was there but, since then we are miles apart and that's the fact. We should be trying to close the gap with likes of Juventus and Bayern before we start talking about Barcelona or Madrid. We can't instantly buy a few players and pretend the gap has been closed. It takes time to build a team, and that include getting the confidence back, bringing the fear factor back ect.. If we get a few top players and they all stay for say at least three of years , and we become regular top 3 in PL, then probably we have a chance to catch up with likes of Real and Barca.
 

Nytram Shakes

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think where a way of Madrid, mainly in the attacking department, but in terms of premier league squads i think we should be competing for the league
 

Offside

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Nobody is that far away if they buy the right players. We have the budget to do so but we also have a clown CEO with some wannabee galactico agenda.
 

NoPace

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Just watching the James Robson Q&A about our summer plans and the names mentioned that they believe are our top targets are: Keane, Perisic, Matic. If this is true then we're in for a depressing summer and a struggle to retain top 6 position, never mind catching up to Chelsea or Madrid. Even if we were to get a replacement for Zlatan I don't think we're moving forwards. I get the idea, that Mourinho needs to make the team his and shore up what we have, but I think it's a mistake that will leave us pretty far behind the pack.

Potentially we'll end up with:
Romero
Valencia Bailly Keane darmian
Matic
Herrera Pogba
Mkhitaryan (striker) Perisic
Which has the right structure to be more solid, but won't address our lack of goals and won't give us that creative spark we need to break down defences. With City going for broke with the top players and others around us strengthening, I can't see us catching up to anyone besides maybe Arsenal.
Yeah, that looks closer to a Napoli or Dortmund level side, though obviously different in style. A star in Pogba, maybe another 1 if one of Mkhitaryan or Bailly has a strong year and some solid performers in Herrera, Matic, Perisic and Valencia.

I think City will be a lot stronger next year under year 2 of Pep and because they have let go of their geriatric fullbacks and already brought in Bernardo Silva and Chelsea can upgrade Moses and maybe sign a better attacker than Pedro and a better CB than Cahill, though playing in Europe and regression to the mean should hurt them too. Spurs might improve a bit through continuity and being young and Liverpool might not drop as many points against weak teams with some added talent at CB, CM, LB and Salah. Their weak spots are so weak (Milner, Lucas, Lovren) that they can upgrade just by adding pretty good players. I don't expect Arsenal to be much better, though.
 

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I'm not sure how this is a question considering how I keep seeing that the squad is in shambles from the previous two managers and how Mourinho had to make do with an average squad. So, how is a supposedly average and disjointed squad not far off Madrid?
 

0161_UNITED

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I'm not sure how this is a question considering how I keep seeing that the squad is in shambles from the previous two managers and how Mourinho had to make do with an average squad. So, how is a supposedly average and disjointed squad not far off Madrid?
Same as every Summer transfer window.

One camp wants to bury their heads in the ground and massively overrate our existing squad.

Another camp wants to throw tantrums and freak out over every transfer and get get hung up on a select few players that are the flavour of the month. If we only got player X,Y and Z we'd compete. Except City got X, and PSG got Y. So if miss out on Z, Ed should be fired, Jose sacked, a DOF put in place, and by the way we're going to be worse than Liverpool for 20 years. It should all function like a video game.

Another camp dramatically overrates our academy products to the point where we shouldn't be signing anyone, it goes against our ethos as a club.

There are those with such intricate insights into our manager's tactics that actually player X fits exactly into the inverted 4-2-3-1 defensive pivot previously employed at a previous team, therefore Daily Mail linking us to him makes perfect sense!

Some post as if they have genuine insight into what Jose and Ed are planning.

Some rank the tweeters in order of trustworthiness and remember vividly when we were incorrectly linked with Garay in 2015.

Ahh the Caf in Summer. Good times. Good times...
 

BigCaine

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Yes we are, we right now are miles off madrid. Madrid have a good keeper, worldclass fullbacks, a worlclass cb and a very good cb, worldclass midfield supported by a good dm, a very good attack led by the best (or 2nd best) player in the world. They have players on bench who will easily start for utd.

In comparison, we have the best keeper in the world, but beyond that, valencia is a decent defensive fullback but offensively he is well below par, other than bailly no real good cb's and even bailly has long way to go to reach ramos level. Average left backs, shaw has been average other than 5 games and darmian blows hot and cold defensively and is average offensively.

Pogba and Herrera are a very good mf pairing but not as good as kroos and modric, we have not real dm as carrick is too old and fellaini is, well fellaini. It is a travest that, that is all we have to call a midfield.

In attack, we have 2 young forwards in martial and rashford both of whom could turn out to be class or could turn out to be next forlan and welbeck, both have a long way to go for us to know for sure which it will be in the end. But both talent wise currently will make madrid bench at best and that too barely, mata and mkhi are good but neither are as good as isco let alone bale or ronaldo. Only other player of ours that would have gotten into madrid 11 on basis of talent right now other than ddg was ibra and he is done for, highly unlikely to really play at that level anymore sadly.

So that is 1 player in 11 that would get into their their starting lineup, that is how far behind we are. Many of their bench players like isco, morata, james are better or atleast equal to our starting 11 players, that itself tells us how big the gap right now is.
 

NotQuiteManc

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United is not a proper team yet. The individuals are there, if not many but no proper spine yet. I take that DDG, Bailly, Pogba will be the spine, perhaps Herrera as well for the long term building of a team. Perhaps Rashford too, but he is still too young to lead the front line. Someone like Morata would be ideal, where he has played for big teams, with big time players and probably tactically more mature than Rashford. Morata himself is improving his scoring stats and seem like a proper overall player as well.

Compared to Real, and even Juve, they have a team for at least few seasons already. Just chop a bit here and there, add here and there but the core is the same and play together for several seasons together already. A lot of experienced heads in the team and leader off and on the pitch who are at their peaks.

If Maureen can keep current group bar and add several quality additions, it would take at least two more seasons to be at least a proper team, and for some of the players, to un-learn LvG's way of football. :p

Moyes' too of course.
 

johanovic

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We sold 2 players in January and got rid of Schweinsteiger so the wage bill has gone down, now we could see Rooney,Ibra? and some of Fellaini,Darmian,Young,Jones,Shaw,Januzaj leave this summer so should we not expect 6 to 8 new players? We are so far away from Madrid we can not expect to catch them soon but if we buy well we could take some big steps towards that. I would prefer young hungry players like Dembele(Dortmund),Lukaku,Mbappe,Fabianho and so on. We bought well last summer but that was the first transfer window in a long time that we did really good business and I thrust Mourinho to make good signings this summer. We must also give Tuanzebe and the kids chances next season, I think him and Gomes are really special talents.
 

Dir Wangem

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We are miles away from Madrid, Barca and Bayern. Probably Juventus as well.

As for the league: anything can happen. The PL has become increasingly volatile post-Fergie. This has inevitably lead to great domestic entertainment(at least for neutral spectators), but also poor results in Europe.
 

dannyrhinos89

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There's only 1 player that could get into Reals starting 11 and that's De Gea, Pogba and bailly would be on the bench.

As for the rest of our squad they wouldn't even be allowed entry into the bernabau.

We're unbelievably far away from their standard.