General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%
  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%
  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%
  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%

  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .

Full bodied red

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I doubt the nationalisation thing would begin overnight, we have a seriously heavy workload coming with Brexit and they'll be realistic about that, but at the same time its not going to be all consuming for the entire civil service.

Re the pension age, we do have an aging population but also an ever increasing amount of wealth in the country. It's always sold to us by the right as if the pot of available money is endlessly shrinking, and yet big business is booming. Those two things can't simultaneously be true.
They can if you keep lowering Corporation Tax rates.....
 

Smores

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I have no objection to increased public spending but it needs to be effective, and I simply don't trust Corbyn and his frontbench to deliver on this. Secondly, it should be funded by a tax on wealth rather than income. Hammering someone earning 70k a year who can barely afford to buy a property is targeting the wrong people while many of the older generation (who rely more on the NHS) are sat on huge windfalls from property price rises over the last 30 years.
No one on 70k a year is struggling to buy any available property.

Id rather it was wealth but thats seen by the right as taking away earned wealth more than income is. Income taxation is the best political choice imo, IHT is the actual best choice.
 

rcoobc

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Doesn't know how to sit down on trains :lol:

How far he has come.

Now by train though. Think he travels by car now to get a seat.
 

villain

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I wish I were being hyperbolic, but it genuinely isn't the case. I saw someone just this morning change their Facebook status to "voting Conservative". He didn't post any views, didn't try to change anyone else's mind and said nothing. Within an hour the comments section ran into the dozens which ranged from sheer disgust at how he was voting to literally stating that he must not understand what the parties stand for. The levels of condescension and revulsion caused him to delete the entire post within a few hours.
Ridiculous.
What was he expecting to happen?

He posted it intentionally on social media to get a reaction, it just so happens that it seems most of his friends lean towards Labour. If his list leant towards Tories he'd have a comments section full of people applauding his decision. And Vice versa if his voting intention was the opposite.

At the end of the day, he put it up to get either a reaction, or to get attention - and he got that.

If he was so intent letting everyone know that he was fulfilling his civil duties by voting he could have just put that he was voting on his fb, and no one needed to who for.

Or, if he didn't want a reaction he could have no said anything at all.

Social Media is driven by interaction, engagement & visibility. Anything you put out for others to view, like, share, comment on you do with the knowledge that they are free to agree with you, debate with you, share your thoughts & ideas etc.
You can't feign ignorance to this fact.
 

rcoobc

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No one on 70k a year is struggling to buy any available property.

Id rather it was wealth but thats seen by the right as taking away earned wealth more than income is. Income taxation is the best political choice imo, IHT is the actual best choice.
Inheritance Tax and Income tax are both needed for definite.

Inheritance tax is nice because, it's one thing you haven't earned.

But it's sad. There is no reason for Inheritance tax to be 40%... It should be 20% on everything apart from your main property. Crack down on trust funds and you're laughing
 

Smores

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Inheritance Tax and Income tax are both needed for definite.

Inheritance tax is nice because, it's one thing you haven't earned.

But it's sad. There is no reason for Inheritance tax to be 40%... It should be 20% on everything apart from your main property. Crack down on trust funds and you're laughing
Just to be picky id highlight its 40% above your allowance excluding anything you're giving to charity. A fairly important point.

I have no sympathy for trust fund kids and I've known a few since ive moved south.
 

Honest John

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Corbyn is one removed from a parish priest. Take from the rich and give everything to the poor. Very honourable but what is the plan when there is no more to give? What is the plan when the tax-take plummets because business's bugger off to Ireland? What is the plan when Company's close because confidence disappears? How much money has he reserved in his 'calculations' for the massive upsurge in unemployment benefit?

This is populist rubbish that cannot be delivered without hocking the nation to the rafters in debt again. He has just reeled it out as eye-catching electioneering blurb without one jot of a clue as to how he can deliver on it. He couldn't even cite the numbers on his flagship Childcare policy. That is because the numbers don't matter - just sell the message. And it appears that loads on here have bought it.

Nice bloke, honourable sentiments and ideals.

Prime Minister?

You must be joking.
 

MoskvaRed

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No one on 70k a year is struggling to buy any available property.

Id rather it was wealth but thats seen by the right as taking away earned wealth more than income is. Income taxation is the best political choice imo, IHT is the actual best choice.
Assuming 3x income mortgage, you won't get much for that in the London area (which is where the majority of younger people earning at that level live). Certainly not something justifying treatment as a fat cat high earner.
 

Smores

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Assuming 3x income mortgage, you won't get much for that in the London area (which is where the majority of younger people earning at that level live). Certainly not something justifying treatment as a fat cat high earner.
Well then they can move to the outskirts with everyone else who commutes in. Thats a choice not a necessity
 

NinjaFletch

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Corbyn is one removed from a parish priest. Take from the rich and give everything to the poor. Very honourable but what is the plan when there is no more to give? What is the plan when the tax-take plummets because business's bugger off to Ireland? What is the plan when Company's close because confidence disappears? How much money has he reserved in his 'calculations' for the massive upsurge in unemployment benefit?

This is populist rubbish that cannot be delivered without hocking the nation to the rafters in debt again. He has just reeled it out as eye-catching electioneering blurb without one jot of a clue as to how he can deliver on it. He couldn't even cite the numbers on his flagship Childcare policy. That is because the numbers don't matter - just sell the message. And it appears that loads on here have bought it.

Nice bloke, honourable sentiments and ideals.

Prime Minister?

You must be joking.
More applicable to the Tory's manifesto than Labour's tbh.
 

rcoobc

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Just to be picky id highlight its 40% above your allowance excluding anything you're giving to charity. A fairly important point.

I have no sympathy for trust fund kids and I've known a few since ive moved south.
Yeah, 40% above the allowance. But all the rich folk hate the fact it's 40%, and I agree with them. 40% is too high.

But the problem is they squirrel it away in their trust funds, so it has to be high.

If it was 20%, you could make that back in 3 years. I.e. let's say Madame Kelloggs has £100,000 in assets outside of the family home. It goes to her two kids, Mr Frosties and Mrs Cornflake. Each take £40k, which they put into their ISAs, over time.

Global markets increase by the average 7% a year. £40k turns into £49k after 3 years.
 

Smores

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Corbyn is one removed from a parish priest. Take from the rich and give everything to the poor. Very honourable but what is the plan when there is no more to give? What is the plan when the tax-take plummets because business's bugger off to Ireland? What is the plan when Company's close because confidence disappears? How much money has he reserved in his 'calculations' for the massive upsurge in unemployment benefit?

This is populist rubbish that cannot be delivered without hocking the nation to the rafters in debt again. He has just reeled it out as eye-catching electioneering blurb without one jot of a clue as to how he can deliver on it. He couldn't even cite the numbers on his flagship Childcare policy. That is because the numbers don't matter - just sell the message. And it appears that loads on here have bought it.

Nice bloke, honourable sentiments and ideals.

Prime Minister?

You must be joking.
Did any of that happen before rates were cut? No one is moving to Dublin there isn't the skilled staff, we have a base there and struggle
 

Mciahel Goodman

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What is the plan when the tax-take plummets because business's bugger off to Ireland? What is the plan when Company's close because confidence disappears? How much money has he reserved in his 'calculations' for the massive upsurge in unemployment benefit?
Considering how much higher the UK's corporate tax is relative to Ireland already, why haven't they buggered off? If the proposed tax measures go ahead, the UK would still have quite a low level of corporation tax, and the reason they won't bugger off is because having a presence in the UK brings certain advantages which are outweighed by tax hikes (which are still low relative to other major industrial countries).
 

Jippy

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No one on 70k a year is struggling to buy any available property.

Id rather it was wealth but thats seen by the right as taking away earned wealth more than income is. Income taxation is the best political choice imo, IHT is the actual best choice.
That's not true in a whole swathe of London tbf.
 

Honest John

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Considering how much higher the UK's corporate tax is relative to Ireland already, why haven't they buggered off? If the proposed tax measures go ahead, the UK would still have quite a low level of corporation tax, and the reason they won't bugger off is because having a presence in the UK brings certain advantages which are outweighed by tax hikes (which are still low relative to other major industrial countries).
When corporation tax was cut the tax-take went up.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
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Corbyn is one removed from a parish priest. Take from the rich and give everything to the poor. Very honourable but what is the plan when there is no more to give? What is the plan when the tax-take plummets because business's bugger off to Ireland? What is the plan when Company's close because confidence disappears? How much money has he reserved in his 'calculations' for the massive upsurge in unemployment benefit?

This is populist rubbish that cannot be delivered without hocking the nation to the rafters in debt again. He has just reeled it out as eye-catching electioneering blurb without one jot of a clue as to how he can deliver on it. He couldn't even cite the numbers on his flagship Childcare policy. That is because the numbers don't matter - just sell the message. And it appears that loads on here have bought it.

Nice bloke, honourable sentiments and ideals.

Prime Minister?

You must be joking.
Such a myth. Load of hot air and not very honest of you John.

Like I said before, businesses would prefer to pay more in corporation tax than a hard brexit with no access to the free market.
 

Jippy

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Considering how much higher the UK's corporate tax is relative to Ireland already, why haven't they buggered off? If the proposed tax measures go ahead, the UK would still have quite a low level of corporation tax, and the reason they won't bugger off is because having a presence in the UK brings certain advantages which are outweighed by tax hikes (which are still low relative to other major industrial countries).
We are actually seeing a whole bunch of asset management jobs moving to Dublin, Luxembourg and other jurisdictions now, due to the upcoming loss of passporting. It's more moving parts of the business, rather than uprooting the company as a whole, but we are still losing high-earning jobs and the subsequent tax take cos of Brexit.
 

Mciahel Goodman

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When corporation tax was cut the tax-take went up.
Which doesn't paint even half of a full picture when you consider the resources corporations use in order to make a profit out of which they pay that tax.

Take the four biggest industrial countries in Europe and the UK's rate of corporation tax is about 7% lower than the average. With a Tory proposal to reduce it by a further 2%.
 

Manny

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I don't vote, of course, but if I was, I'd break the habit of a lifetime and vote Tory.

Everything you say is absolutely why I've always been left-of-centre. But to me the BIGGEST problem for the UK over the next few years is the eventual state of the UK after the UK leaves the EU.

Get BREXIT wrong, and all the problems you're describing will be even more so and even worse....Even more devisive....

Much as I dislike May and many members of her cabinet, it seems to me that they are preferable to a coalition of Labour/LibDen/SNP
, all of whom don't want the UK out of the EU, and so don't have the determination or the enthusiasm to make sure the UK doesn't get absolutely, totally screwed by the EU.

Labour or LibDem next time, perhaps, has to be the sensible way forward for the UK - but not this time....
Is the Tory Brexit team really preferable though?

We are talking David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox. Career politicians who will be looking to score political points and spouting jingoistic and nationalist crap at every turn. Together they repeatedly made hostile statements directed at the EU members last summer which will no doubt have got their backs up. Lead by Teresa May, who can't think on her feet and whose face falls apart every time she's put under pressure.

The Labour team on the other hand will be lead by a well regarded lawyer who will have experience in negotiating and is only entering politics towards the end of his career. He'll will be backed up by career politicians who may have supported Remain but who are likely to get a warmer reception at the negotiating table.

On top of that, supposedly Corbyn wants to remove himself from the negotiations and instead direct the team from London taking out the 'Macron/Merkel vs Corbyn' angle. Surely that's far more appropriate than the bullsh!t show of strength May and her team will be looking to put on.
 

NinjaFletch

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Because they've outright refused to give a figure for absolutely anything. You can criticise Corbyn for not knowing the numbers for his social care policy, but at least they're out there and in the manifesto. The Conservatives financial plans amount to 'lol who cares?'.
 

Mciahel Goodman

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We are actually seeing a whole bunch of asset management jobs moving to Dublin, Luxembourg and other jurisdictions now, due to the upcoming loss of passporting. It's more moving parts of the business, rather than uprooting the company as a whole, but we are still losing high-earning jobs and the subsequent tax take cos of Brexit.
That was always inevitable with Brexit, and freedom of movement restrictions, uncertainty, etc, not necessarily a pure tax issue.
 

Dobba

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"You and your paper can feck off."
Because they've outright refused to give a figure for absolutely anything. You can criticise Corbyn for not knowing the numbers for his social care policy, but at least they're out there and in the manifesto. The Conservatives financial plans amount to 'lol who cares?'.
Numbers don't matter - just sell the message. Oh sorry, that was the other lot.
 

MoskvaRed

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Well then they can move to the outskirts with everyone else who commutes in. Thats a choice not a necessity
If you think someone earning 70k should pay more than a nurse, then I'd agree with you. But it would be missing the big point - the real wealth lies in the people owing the capital, not those trying to accumulate some to get on the ladder. It is the single biggest obstacle to social mobility in the UK and the biggest change from the 60s and 70s.
 

Honest John

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What is the cap for social care?
To be fair the Tories manifesto is not that removed from what is already policy. Many of the policies stem from the last budget and are already costed. Deficit targets aren't being met as fast as they would like but they are going in the right direction. The economy is still growing even against the backdrop of Brexit. On the other hand Labours manifesto is full of massive new spending commitments. Therefore the onus is on them to tell us how they will be costed. Corporation tax and the high earners won't do it. The IFS say so.
 

Dobba

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To be fair the Tories manifesto is not that removed from what is already policy. Many of the policies stem from the last budget and are already costed. Deficit targets aren't being met as fast as they would like but they are going in the right direction. The economy is still growing even against the backdrop of Brexit. On the other hand Labours manifesto is full of massive new spending commitments. Therefore the onus is on them to tell us how they will be costed. Corporation tax and the high earners won't so it. The IFS say so.
So basically, as you mockingly described Labour's manifesto, "numbers don't matter - just sell the message".
 

Jippy

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Doesn't tax take always go up anyway? And the comparison is between years that were in the middle of a financial crash - i.e, not a sound comparison.
You can have long periods of stagnation though, like we've seen with next to no wage growth over multiple years.
 

Mciahel Goodman

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It's a pure passporting issue, nothing to do with tax. I feel I may be leaping into a convo that's midway through and will butt back out!
:lol:

I just misunderstood in the context of the other poster's point.
 

Nick 0208 Ldn

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Not only is IHT a totally flawed tax due to the geographical issues, but it is duplication too. A property has already been subject to tax, both at the time of purchase and every month since.
 

finneh

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Ridiculous.
What was he expecting to happen?

He posted it intentionally on social media to get a reaction, it just so happens that it seems most of his friends lean towards Labour. If his list leant towards Tories he'd have a comments section full of people applauding his decision. And Vice versa if his voting intention was the opposite.

At the end of the day, he put it up to get either a reaction, or to get attention - and he got that.

If he was so intent letting everyone know that he was fulfilling his civil duties by voting he could have just put that he was voting on his fb, and no one needed to who for.

Or, if he didn't want a reaction he could have no said anything at all.

Social Media is driven by interaction, engagement & visibility. Anything you put out for others to view, like, share, comment on you do with the knowledge that they are free to agree with you, debate with you, share your thoughts & ideas etc.
You can't feign ignorance to this fact.
My point isn't about social media psychology. It's that there seems to be the same level of Tory bell-ends who're talking shit as previous elections; but there appears to be a huge increase in left wing morons who believe others aren't entitled to their own views without ridiculous levels of condescension and abuse.

This large increase that many people are seeing will in my view lead to a larger portion of "shy" Tory voters and could well cause the polls to be significantly wrong.

It's why I was considering putting a few quid on 390 - 419 Tory seats which would be a majority of over 100 seats.
 

Smores

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It's a pure passporting issue, nothing to do with tax. I feel I may be leaping into a convo that's midway through and will butt back out!
Aye that wasnt the point discussed. I've yet to hear any of our clients moving to Dublin for passporting reason as most already have a EU presence to cover it off. Thats probably more to do with our product base than anything.

I think there's a danger when this is discussed to paint a picture of the entire city moving.
 

Honest John

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They put it down to 19% a couple of years back and the take went up. This is because lower rates attract inward investment which creates more companies that employ more people. This is why we have the highest rate of employment for decades. There are problems with wage growth that given time should be addressed. But if you think that the answer to those sorts of problems is to turn it all upside and vote in a tax and spend government then you are wrong. It's been done and it has failed. I'm not saying the current model is perfect but it is far better than this proposed populist rubbish. It's nice and cosy and very humane but it's pie-in-the-fecking-sky. Don't be duped.