Would you say he was better than Iniesta then? That's some high praise.
Paul Gascoigne | Still living
- Thread starter esmufc07
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I was watching a 60 minutes documentary on the massive sexual abuse scandal that plagued English football through the 70s, 80s and 90s. Some of those players came through the Newcastle system, and it was awful to see the personal demons the abuse had created and the resultant alcohol and drug abuse, as well as constant battles with depression. So much of it sounded similar to Gazzas issues. It made me wonder if he was one of the many silent and unknown victims of those terrible acts.
I really hope not; but there are bound to be so many more big names that crossed the paths of these monsters. The fact he came through a youth system which had one in it at some point, makes your stomach turn.
Hope he stays healthy.
I really hope not; but there are bound to be so many more big names that crossed the paths of these monsters. The fact he came through a youth system which had one in it at some point, makes your stomach turn.
Hope he stays healthy.
I've seen somewhere that he experienced some trauma in childhood, loosing two friends in traffic accidents, one of which he witnessed and which involved extreme trauma on the body of the kid involved. Who knows what makes or breaks a man. Alcoholism is pretty indiscriminate, but childhood traumas are definitely a risk factor.
I'm willing to argue that he's had mental health issues since he was a child and the way he is now is a product of everything in his life starting from childhood. You can't say 'before the mental health issues' as if he only started being mentally ill once the drinking took hold and he was diagnosed in public.
I wholeheartedly agree that modern footballers in general are robots and we need more characters in the game but Gazza is an example of the wrong type, wrongly managed by the people around him to compound it and thus destined to become the mess he was.
I hope for his sake he's in a much better place now and he seems to be so unless I've missed any recent developments but he's always been mentally ill.
Sure but the comment made completely missed the point of what the poster was saying. He wasnt saying we need more players with mental health and alcohol issues in the game. Unfortunately you are still missing this and focussing on Gazzas issues and not what the poster was saying. Again, things on here get spun out of context of whats said and you are simply continuing to follow your own agenda. What was the original objection? The original objection was that things another posters comment was spun out of context of what they were actually saying. That still hold true. Of course I have no doubt you will move the goalposts again.
Yeah because that's obviously what I meant
The original point I was trying to make was that everything Gazza is, including his 'character' is all down to mental illness.
I'm in agreement with you that footballers need character and football needs 'characters' because 99% of them are absolute dullards but Gazza is a poor choice as an example of the type we need because you can't separate him as a person from the illness, at least IMO.
Feel free to argue that point though, it's only my observation based on experience and I can hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong if I'm wrong, not arguing against you for argument's sake mate.
Addicts, people with OCD, facial ticks, depression (all of which Gazza has) can be extrovert, introvert, loud, quiet, good people or arseholes.
Gazza is a big character when sober and in good health. The poster simply said we need more personality in the game. How you've turned that into him wanting more mentally disturbed, alcoholics kicking a ball around I don't know.
I wasn't the one who said that.
That said, drunk footballers do look very entertaining..
Thats an interesting point/opinion. I dont know if i can agree that everything Gazza is comes down to mental illness. Somewhere in there is a person as well, he isnt all "mental illness" Interesting thing for me to ponder though
Anyone that does needs their head seeing to.
It's a tough line to draw, my brother was extrovert, and his 'character' at a young age was definitely defined to some extent by mental illness, being schizophrenic (identified at an early age), and very highly intelligent. His friends didn't know it at the time, his behavioural issues weren't something a friend could just identify, especially as kids.
Different type of player to Iniesta anyway. He was a pretty special talent but that knee injury back when they didnt know how to fix them as well as today was a huge setback.
In the early days, definitely. After that whenever on form, he was probably on par.
Fair one, I did get his age wrong (he acted like a teenager in my defence). My point stands however - it may have been his high watermark (there may be Spurs or Lazio fans that disagree) but it proves undoubtedly he could perform at the highest level. England under Robson weren't a fluent and overly gifted side in a world football context. The Dutch were reigning European Champions and Gullit, World Player of the Year in 1990. Our skipper had left the field of play with an injury that ended his tournament. Gascoigne was one of the most naturally talented footballers at that World Cup; skilful, robust and unafraid. Not common for someone from our island.
I thought he was great when he used to come to Chelsea, we would chant,Ffs
Don't wanna go into details about his personal life, choices and drinking/mental problems but he did have a great sense of humor in his early days.
"Fat boy is back, fat boy is back, hello!"
He would then proceed to jog away and stick two fingers up behind his back, then give a cheeky look back to the following jeers and cheers.
Only problem for us was his free-kicks, phenomenal.
If any of you know the story of the ice hockey player Theo Fleury (abused in his early teens, by a pedophile coach - who preyed on younger players and was eventually convicted and jailed) ,the path of Gazza's self destruction has some very similar parallels
Yeah, that is typical Gazza.
I really liked him as a kid. From what I can remember he was loved by everyone because of his character. Lineker said about him that he never seen so much talent on the pitch when he started playing but that as a character he was childlike, with a great sense of humor, though. Even then, he had so much energy that it was hard to keep up with him. In Italy, before England played Cameroon in quarter-final, he couldn't sleep in his room and slipped out in the middle of the night to play a game of tennis, according to Gary.
He never knew where the line is, though, and while he still played football it was not so bad. You could see the signs as he became older, especially during injuries that his behavior started being self-destructive and once he stop playing it could only got worse.
Anyway, he still fights with it as I can see. Hope he can stay well.
Christ on a bike that's a reach. Gazza had talent in abundance. I'd never doubt that. But to suggest that he was ever anywhere near the likes of Iniesta as a footballer is ridiculous.
Yes, on his absolute best day he was World Class. He had less than 20 of those across his whole career. But so was Nani and countless others. You can't just take a players collected sets of great 90 minutes and write off everything else with 'If it wasn't for the drink, friends, choices, addiction, diet, attitude to training, management and the injuries he's one of the best ever'.
Le Tissier was just as talented. Probably had more World Class unplayable games in his career too. Nobody is ever going to say that he was as good as Cantona and they're certainly not going to say he was comparable to truly World Class second-forwards.
World Class talent, unfulfilled. Resulting in a very good player and a just above average top level career.
Sounds like a reasonable guess. That sort of self-destructive behavior doesn't just start in a vacuum.Good points JimYeah, that is typical Gazza.
I really liked him as a kid. From what I can remember he was loved by everyone because of his character. Lineker said about him that he never seen so much talent on the pitch when he started playing but that as a character he was childlike, with a great sense of humor, though. Even then, he had so much energy that it was hard to keep up with him. In Italy, before England played Cameroon in quarter-final, he couldn't sleep in his room and slipped out in the middle of the night to play a game of tennis, according to Gary.
He never knew where the line is, though, and while he still played football it was not so bad. You could see the signs as he became older, especially during injuries that his behavior started being self-destructive and once he stop playing it could only got worse.
Anyway, he still fights with it as I can see. Hope he can stay well.
My brother killed himself at 19 years of age,
To put Gazza on a par with Nani is truly bonkers, the same with Le Tiss who was a great player. Put the latter two on the stage in the Rome derby, and meh.
Gazza was a true genius as a player but they often cross the line like Best, Cantona did also for example. I admired him as a player and it was a shame he did not join us as Fergie would have known how to handle him. It's sad to see him today but as a player few were better but sadly Gazza is not the only player/former player struggling with mental health problems and perhaps the pressures of being pro footballer are far more difficult to handle than we realise.
at the title, feck sakeYou have the wrong picture of Paul Gascoigne. When i say on form im not talking abut sporadic world class performances over time, im talking about him being a genuine world class player during those periods. You mentioning Nani is an incredible insult to the man, he was englands best player of his era by sme distance might i add. What he didn't do due to his well published issues, mostly injuries, was dominate the sport the way he had threatened to do. That could ragdoll some of the greatest international sides in the world. Euro 96, that's Iniesta level Gazza, Italia 90, thats a level Iniesta has never played at.
I read that on here occasionally and although you never know, I disagree.
Gazza had/Has multiple mental health issues and Fergie might have been the best manager ever but he was not a miracle worker. United had a great player with serious addiction issues under Fergie and he was shown the door very quickly.
Not a slight on Sir Alex by the way, he had a job to do and sorting out Paul McGrath's head was not it.
He still lasted 3 seasons under Fergie. Also Gazza would've been a lot younger than McGrath was (26-29, whereas Gazza would've been 21) so should've been more influenceable.
Obviously we'll never know but I think Fergie would've indulged Gazza less than he appeared to be at Spurs and Lazio which may have given him a better career.
I didn't put them on the same level. I said Nani put in as many world class performances. Which he did.
He wasn't Englands best player. Most talented, yes. Not best.
He's romanticized to such a degree due to his problems. He shone brightly on a few occasions. That's as far as it goes for me. Loved watching him play, but I'm realistic about the shelf he sits on. It's nowhere near Zidane, Iniesta and the like.
He was about to sign for Fergie until Tottenham bought his Mum a sunbed !!
Agree that the Iniesta and Zidane comparisons are generous - those guys had sustained dominance at the very top level, deciding major title after major title, like very few others have managed.
Still, I think his peak was longer than 20 world class performances. From 1987 through to 1991 he was increasingly impressive - PFA Young Player of the Year in 87/88, Team of the Year in 87/88 and 90/91, Spurs Player of the Year in 89/90. He was certainly England's best player at Italia '90 and grew into the tournament to the extent that on fire Lothar Matthaus -in the middle of the best World Cup CM performance of all time - struggled to keep tabs on him in the semi-finals. After the cruciate injury in 1991, he was still capable of genius but much more sporadically. How you rank him depends on how much you value longevity but his peak was very high IMO.
Agreed.
Yeah, I agree. Sadly, some matters are beyond even the best of man-managers.
Nowhere near is going just as far in the opposite direction. I know if Utd invented a time machine and could pick up a pre-injuries Gazza or Iniesta at the same stage of his career, I would be much more excited by the prospect of Gazza. Career wise Iniesta obviously wins out, but would love to have seen how far Gazza went without those cup final tackles.
He was. Okay fine, who do you think was England's best player?
Didn't compare him to Zidane, however his level pre injuries was really close to that level. He didn't shine brightly on a few occasions, i think thats what you don't understand. He shined brightly for substantial periods of time. You seem to think he was a Wilshere type player, he really wasn't. Give me pre injuries Gazza any day over Iniesta, and I'd have a toss up between them when he was on form post injuries(during his Rangers spell). Should he have had a longer career at the top, obviously but he had already done enough to warrant a place in football history even with the limited time.
Edit: Not trying to take the piss out of him or anything but I just can't help but think all of the shit that surrounds him.
Giggs-Scholes-Gascoigne-Keane-Beckham. Ooh yes. And if Gazza had been 5 yrs younger.. if if if.
We'll never know if it'd have turned out different if he'd have signed for us instead of Spurs but I'm certain he still would have headed to Italy at the same time anyway.
English clubs, certainly including United, were absolutely crap payers in the early nineties. It's why the cream of the crop at that time generally ended up in Italy, where all the money was.
English clubs, certainly including United, were absolutely crap payers in the early nineties. It's why the cream of the crop at that time generally ended up in Italy, where all the money was.
There’s a new video of him doing the rounds asking someone for cocaine. Terrible. He won’t last much longer this way