Way to go over the top, buddy. I dislike the Rooney bashing and he gave everything for a long time but you dissipate your argument with wild hyperbole like this.
Wayne Rooney rejoins Everton | United save £30M by giving him £10M pay-off
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
- Start date
I like this post.
I'm sorry but fan's loyalty rest with the club and not an employee of the club. Yes, he achieved great things but it's not like he did it on a free. To an extent, he was over paid at times. It's business when it comes to the player and the club, simple as.
I don't see what not liking one player has to do with glory hunting
Sixth in most appearances and top in most goals.
Sober analysis like this is fine.
It hasn't been dispelled at all. A couple posters chiming in 'what about Giggs' 'what about Zanetti' does nothing to dispel the argument that I have made for the reasons I have outlined.
You said that Rooney was robbing us whilst not looking after himself. Where is the evidence that his physical decline isn't because of his long career starting at a very young and because of 'not looking after himself' as you claim?
I've argued the same but each poster just comes back with "What about Giggs/Zanetti/Ronaldo...." It's always the same group of names they come up with.
Ignoring the many other top pros who retired with less or similar games under their belt than Rooney.
I clocked his decline years ago but to dismiss his workload as a contributing factor is nonsense.
You have no idea, do you. I for one detested Rooney for the last four years because of the negative effect on the club.
SAF wanted rid in 2013, and got rid of many a player as soon as they started to decline for the greater good of the club, or is his respect for the club also questionable because he didn't want Rooney United FC?
It's you lot that keep bringing up Ronaldo, Giggs and Zanetti. Other names have been mentioned but you choose to ignore them.
Milner, Barry, Carrick, Defoe and Baines are all players who have played a similar amount of games or far more and none of them dropped off a cliff in terms of physical condition.
Funnily enough, none of them have had regular stories about sinking 5-10 pints in sessions that occurred during the season and it's worth remembering that those are the sessions we've actually heard about.
It's not about Rooney per se. It's about talking about former/current players, who gave a huge amount to the club, in a non-hateful way.You have no idea, do you. I for one detested Rooney for the last four years because of the negative effect on the club.
SAF wanted rid in 2013, and got rid of many a player as soon as they started to decline for the greater good of the club, or is his respect for the club also questionable because he didn't want Rooney United FC?
I wanted Rooney sold before his last contract.
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Different humans peak and decline at different times. Usain Bolt showed that yesterday.
Even at his physical peak, Rooney was carrying a bit of a spare tyre. That should be the baseline to judge him by in terms of physique.
With the exception of Milner you are talking about players that are years older than Rooney but have still played less games than Rooney?! Players that haven't played long seasons with European football all their career and players that have all declined anyway. Weird argument.
The same people slandering a club legend and a top scorer of Manchester United like Rooney for not being loyal and not looking after himself would probably welcome a 28 year old crock that snubbed us twice for Spurs and RM with open arms.
Ronaldo had once blatantly said he's being held as a slave by Man United and actually eventually left but nobody hates him because of it. Why do these rules only apply to Rooney?
Ronaldo had once blatantly said he's being held as a slave by Man United and actually eventually left but nobody hates him because of it. Why do these rules only apply to Rooney?
The same people slandering a club legend and a top scorer like Rooney for not being loyal and not looking after himself would probably welcome a 28 year old crock that snubbed us twice for Spurs and RM with open arms.
Ronaldo had once blatantly said he's being held as a slave by Man United and actually eventually left but nobody hates him because of it. Why do these rules only apply to Rooney?
Ronaldo had once blatantly said he's being held as a slave by Man United and actually eventually left but nobody hates him because of it. Why do these rules only apply to Rooney?
Slander: "the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation."
It's not slander if it's actually true.
Not everyone worships the ground Ronaldo walks on. People get tired when he uses the club everytime he wants more money from Madrid.
You yourself are "slandering" Bale - you are allowed an opinion on a forum that's the point of it - would be very boring if you couldn't voice it.
Rooney was a top player who has been on the decline for some time and didn't endear himself to all with his contract tactics.
Years older than Rooney, you got that bit right. There's a similar number of games too with Barry way ahead of him. The difference is that they are all model pros who have recognised that their body needs looking after and have made sacrifices to ensure that.
This sums Rooney up in a nutshell for me:
10 October 2016:
"My game now? Of course, I'm not denying it is in a difficult period. I've been on the bench the last few games for Manchester United but that's part of football," said Rooney.
"I have to work hard and, when I'm needed for both club and country, I'll make sure I'm ready."
16 November 2016 - On National Duty
“Naturally Wayne is sorry that pictures taken with fans have been published today"
Wayne Rooney is one of the most famous people in the country. If he was out on the piss all the time, as you seem to allude to, we would hear about it. As it stands there are a few incidents throughout his career that we heard about.Years older than Rooney, you got that bit right. There's a similar number of games too with Barry way ahead of him. The difference is that they are all model pros who have recognised that their body needs looking after and have made sacrifices to ensure that.
This sums Rooney up in a nutshell for me:
10 October 2016:
"My game now? Of course, I'm not denying it is in a difficult period. I've been on the bench the last few games for Manchester United but that's part of football," said Rooney.
"I have to work hard and, when I'm needed for both club and country, I'll make sure I'm ready."
16 November 2016 - On National Duty
“Naturally Wayne is sorry that pictures taken with fans have been published today"
You are right about Barry. He has played about 80 games more, although he is five years older. Regardless, his appearance stats put him close to being in that group of remarkable outliers that I posted earlier, he probably already is in the top 50 all time outfield players in terms of appearances. So the 'look at Barry' doesn't aid you argument one bit. When looking at the length of player's career, would you not agree that to get a reasonable gauge of longevity you would look at what is average and not look at the exceptional outliers? As far as I can tell Rooney is already a long way over average in career length by appearances and will likely end up as one of those exceptional outliers, if he isn't one already.
As other people have said, his decline started three years ago when he'd had around 120 less appearances. Seriously the excuses you lot make for him is ridiculous. It's as obvious as it can be that he doesn't look after himself like 99% of other players do.
He's gone from being one of the best players in the league to one of the worst. That doesn't happen without your professionalism being called into question. That photo taken above was when he was on international duty, leading the national team as captain and at this point he already had serious question marks over his form. He should have been leading by example for a start but also doing everything in his powers to get himself into peak form. The fact he didn't showed utter contempt for all his critics.
So you state that his decline started three years ago when he he was 28 and had played 650 games? So by the age of 28 he had played well over the average number of games that footballers do and you find a decline to be some sort of crime perpetrated by Rooney himself. Honestly, I find your agruments to be completely unobjective and weak. If the best you can come up with is, to the best of our knowledge, some isolated drinking incidents and 'what some other people on Redcafe said', well then.
Isolated drinking incidents? He was on national duty. He was the captain. He was under the microscope because he'd been performing shite and he thought it would be a good idea to go out and get absolutely shit faced a few days before a game because they were given the next morning off. (That's what was claimed after the incedent - it was only Rooney and Sturridge who didn't do any training and Studge was carrying a knock from the Malta game)
If you think that was an isolated indecent you are having a laugh. "Oh this is nice lads, it's not often we all get together like this! Wouldn't it be a great idea to all go and drink a few bottles of wine and sink a few pints?"
That's not the behaviour of a professional and if you don't think that lax attitude has played a part in his ridiculously steep decline you're in denial mate. You really think he chose national team duty as a time to have a one off bender and get into a near paralytic mess?
The whole time he was here he was wearing Everton pyjamas. The utter scumbag!
Would you be willing to concede that his indiscipline when it came to his diet and how he looked after himself had some sort of impact on his physical decline?
Surely you can see that? Surely you can admit that it was a contributing factor and not purely down to the number of games he’s played.
I'm confused by what this thread is supposed to be about then. It looks like it's going to be like the David Moyes thread where people gave him attention or shit everytime he spoke about United but weirder because Rooney left on pretty decent terms. He's not great anymore but he's not shit either. Overall the game on Thursday was terrible, not just Rooney but everyone bar Pickford was crap. He showed glimpses of his ability still though and if he pops up with around 10 league goals which i think is attainable i'll be fairly happy. It shows how far he's dropped but for a man that is 31 and of his build i think it's fair.
It would be impossible for Wayne Rooney to go out regularly and get paralytic in the age of camera phones and in the culture of the UK press without us hearing about it, that much I do know.
The facts that we do know are:
Wayne Rooney has had a much longer than average career in terms of appearances overall, and by your measure, by the start of his decline.
Wayne Rooney has is 6th in all time list of appearances for Manchester United.
Wayne Rooney is the all time top scorer for Manchester United.
Wayne Rooney was a key player for Manchester United in their most successful ever period.
Wayne Rooney is 2nd in the all time appearances list for England.
Wayne Rooney is England's all time top scorer.
He might not have the extreme levels of professionalism and dedication of some of the very greatest athletes in the entire history of the sport of football but I would argue that England and Manchester United got at least as much purchase out of him that can reasonably be expected.
Let's turn it around.
Can people name more than the odd few anomalies of top level professionals who without injury or a clear lack of professionalism have seen their performances from the age of 28 nose-dive so that they've gone from one if the best players in their League to one of the worst before 30?
This is being generous and excusing the last season under Fergies where he was also declining at the mere age of 27.
Can people name more than the odd few anomalies of top level professionals who without injury or a clear lack of professionalism have seen their performances from the age of 28 nose-dive so that they've gone from one if the best players in their League to one of the worst before 30?
This is being generous and excusing the last season under Fergies where he was also declining at the mere age of 27.
I'm more concerned that a grown man wears pyjamas...been sleeping commando since I left home 22 years ago
Firstly, many people argue that Rooney's decline started by him playing through an injury.
It is simply impossible to start guessing which players have been justified (in your eyes) to decline by being injured enough or to start casting judgements on who has been professional enough in their career when we have no way of actually knowing what was going on behind the scenes.
And then you try to take Rooney's decline back a year when many people state Moyes's season was his last good one.
Seems like a meaningless criteria due to it being impossible to qualify.
I've struck out the points that have absolutely nothing to do with his decline.
He signed a new deal in 2014 and then downed tools despite earning upwards of £300k a week here, that really fecking pissed me off if I am honest. As did comments like "I've got nothing to prove" while he dossed about on the pitch and players like Herrera sat on the bench. Then he has the fecking cheek to suggest that it was difficult to maintain standards. For all the success he enjoyed as a member of one of the greatest teams the league has ever seen while having the privilege of being able to learn from the examples set by players like Keane, Scholes, Neville, Giggs, Ferdinand and Vidic. Once they'd all left he did nothing to keep those standards up and pass it on to the next generation. He captained the club through our worst time in recent history and twice lead revolts against the manager despite those managers putting every bit of trust in him. Without question our worst Captain in the last 30+ years.
Also can you just explain to me exactly how you think playing that many games has made him decline in the way he has? Why has he lost his touch? Why is he so bad under pressure? Why has his passing become even more erratic? I appreciate that his pace might have gone but I fail to see a reason for him to drop off in all other areas. Why hasn't he made an effort like other players do as their physical attributes decline and learn to play the game to his strengths?
Why are we still talking about him? He is Everton's problem now.
A little like the meaningless criteria of games played?
People who are looking at the amount of professional games he's played are mistaking correlation and causation. Players who've played several hundred games are almost exclusively getting to the age where a decline is inevitable.
Comments like 'I've got nothing to prove' are simply the things that athletes tell themselves to maintain their self belief. Usain Bolt claimed the other day after his poor qualifying race 'it was the blocks, they are the worst blocks I have ever used'. What exactly do you want him to say 'I don't deserve my wage, please forgive me'?
It is nothing to do with Rooney why Hererra was sat on the bench. Van Gaal didn't rate his positional discipline. Blame LVG.
Playing a lot of games takes a toll on the body? Many people argue that it is unhealthy for 16 year old to play so much senior football full stop, it has been proposed as a reason for Jack Wilshere's injury problems and Cesc Fabragas's early decline too.
I would guess that his reaction times have declined and that is the reason for his other skills failing, his body is no longer reacting as quickly to his thought process.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/brains-reaction-time-peaks-age-24-study-finds/
The article states that on average reactions start to decline after the age of 24.
so now it's because he's over the age of 24. Christ on a bike.If you really wish to take such a reductive tone to a reasonable answer that says to me that you have run out of constructive things to say. I didn't state it was because he is over 24 I said that it could be because his reactions have declined and offered some evidence that reactions decline when a person is in their 20s. His reactions could have declined at a faster rate than most.
It's never rooney fault la.
I think not adapting his game to play to his strengths is the key reason for his decline. He hasn't done it because he doesn't seem to know (or accept) what his strengths are.
The floated balls to the wing, the attempts to chip the keeper every other game, the suggestion that he is an intelligent player. Even at his best he was never a play making number 10 yet he continually dropped into midfield getting involved in the build up play.
His strengths were his finishing, his power, dribbling at speed and his workrate. He was an instinctive player, not an intelligent one. I still advocate that his best role was a wide forward but he felt he was "wasted out wide".
Like many other English players of his generation, he was massively overhyped and he believed it.
Probably because he eats more burgers and chips than most.
It really isn't. There is always an excuse that is exclusive to Golden Boy Wayne. If he took care of himself there would not even be a debate on him being overplayed. It never was an issue until Wayne Rooney came along.
A gift for you mate. I know how good a bad performance by Rooney makes you feel. Nothing like feeling vindicated on a Sunday.