Jose's tactics at United | Acrophobia discussion

Treble

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I'm a bit puzzled by Jose's preference for tall players, epsecially in midfield. United must have the tallest squad among the big clubs in the world. What's exaclty the point of collecting a squad of physically big players? No one of the most successful clubs does it: Real and Barca have 1-2 very tall players in the starting 11. Spanish clubs have ruled in Europe over the last 5-6 years with relatively smallish players

I'm nost saying that Jose's tactics is dinosaurish. Jose may well be onto something. It kinda explains his love for Fellaini.

The benefits of having tall and physically strong players are realtively clear. But there are costs as well: generally, very tall players are less dynamic, flexible and comfortable on the ball in tight situations and are slower over short distances. So, what stands behind Jose's penchant for signing/using tall players?
 

CG1010

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I don't see a problem with it. Which of the tall players Jose has signed are not dynamic or comfortable on the ball? Lukaku, Pogba, Mikhitaryan are also strong in several facets of the game. So I am not sure what costs are you talking about? Having tall players in the PL has its obvious utility.
 

Pexbo

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It's a huge benefit in the Premier League.
 

Kostur

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It sort of happens that they're tall? Lukaku, Pogba, Matić, Bailly just happen to be tall and I think that they were brought in for other reasons than their height. Miki is no giant himself and Jose still seems to trust him more than the others this season, ditto Mata.
 

Treble

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I think that Pogba and Matic will struggle in midfield in the big games, especially against teams that press like mad.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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We didn't sign Pogba and Matic because of their height. They just happen to be tall players, but are very good at what they do.

He also uses Mata and Blind a lot, two players who were tipped to be first out of the door, yet are still playing a role at the club under him. Not big players. Mkhi too is about average. Bailly appears to be his #1 centre back, and he's not a particularly big player. Our biggest centre back, Smalling, is probably bottom of the centre back pile.

The tall players are not just bringing height and nothing else. Fellaini played very well last night, but apart from the one headed goal, the performance wasn't due to his height. In fact neither was the header, it was a free header as a result of a good run in to the box and a good cross.

I think the balance of height, speed and power in this squad is the most balanced it has been for a long time, and I think this is a very good thing.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Treble said:
I think that Pogba and Matic will struggle in midfield in the big games, especially against teams that press like mad.
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They're both fairly press-resistant, so I don't think they would.

Our defenders might struggle though.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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Treble said:
I'm a bit puzzled by Jose's preference for tall players, epsecially in midfield. United must have the tallest squad among the big clubs in the world. What's exaclty the point of collecting a squad of physically big players? No one of the most successful clubs does it: Real and Barca have 1-2 very tall players in the starting 11. Spanish clubs have ruled in Europe over the last 5-6 years with relatively smallish players

I'm nost saying that Jose's tactics is dinosaurish. Jose may well be onto something. It kinda explains his love for Fellaini.

The benefits of having tall and physically strong players are realtively clear. But there are costs as well: generally, very tall players are less dynamic, flexible and comfortable on the ball in tight situations and are slower over short distances. So, what stands behind Jose's penchant for signing/using tall players?
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I think you're just looking for a roundabout way to have a go at Mourinho. Results and performances haven't provided too much ammunition so far so we get bizarre threads like this popping up instead.

What does it matter how tall the player is? A tall player is not automatically "less dynamic, flexible and comfortable on the ball in tight situations' - in fact Pogba is particularly good at these things, so why tar everyone with the same brush? Nobody would want a team full of massive, limited footballers, but our tall players are excellent footballers so what is the problem?
 

Treble

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OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
We didn't sign Pogba and Matic because of their height. They just happen to be tall players, but are very good at what they do.

He also uses Mata and Blind a lot, two players who were tipped to be first out of the door, yet are still playing a role at the club under him. Not big players. Mkhi too is about average. Bailly appears to be his #1 centre back, and he's not a particularly big player. Our biggest centre back, Smalling, is probably bottom of the centre back pile.

The tall players are not just bringing height and nothing else. Fellaini played very well last night, but apart from the one headed goal, the performance wasn't due to his height. In fact neither was the header, it was a free header as a result of a good run in to the box and a good cross.

I think the balance of height, speed and power in this squad is the most balanced it has been for a long time, and I think this is a very good thing.
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A long time? 3 years? Or 10 years?

I think that exacltly the ballance isn't good.
 

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I don't think there's anything wrong with it if the players in question are good. The likes of Pogba, Lukaku and Zlatan last season all easily transcend the 'big man' tag and have a lot more to contribute to the team than physicality and height alone.
 

Treble

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Wittmann45 said:
Is this just another Fellaini thread?
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It clearly isn't. United have the tallest squad by far. And I don't buy in the explanation that it just happens that the players liked by Jose happen to be tall.
 

Treble

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Cheesy said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with it if the players in question are good. The likes of Pogba, Lukaku and Zlatan last season all easily transcend the 'big man' tag and have a lot more to contribute to the team than physicality and height alone.
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Last season was a catastrophe in the league. I wouldn't base any positives of having tall players on last season.
 

Cheesy

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Treble said:
Last season was a catastrophe in the league. I wouldn't base any positives of having tall players on last season.
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Our problems last season weren't really down to having tall players though, were they? As I say, Zlatan was one of our key big men and finished up as top scorer. While the consensus was that he had a lot more to offer, Pogba was hardly poor either and wouldn't exactly be described as a hindrance to the team.
 

CG1010

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Treble said:
It clearly isn't. United have the tallest squad by far. And I don't buy in the explanation that it just happens that the players liked by Jose just happen to be tall.
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When these 'tall' players have helped the club to score 15 goals in 5 games this season, and have generally been outperforming others in our team, I don't see what's the fuss? Clearly they are not just tall players but also happen to have skill. Should we start buying short players just because we have several tall players now?
 

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Mata alone brings our average height to 5'6"


Thread title doesn't really fit with the op btw
 

Treble

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Rusholme Ruffian said:
I think you're just looking for a roundabout way to have a go at Mourinho. Results and performances haven't provided too much ammunition so far so we get bizarre threads like this popping up instead.

What does it matter how tall the player is? A tall player is not automatically "less dynamic, flexible and comfortable on the ball in tight situations' - in fact Pogba is particularly good at these things, so why tar everyone with the same brush? Nobody would want a team full of massive, limited footballers, but our tall players are excellent footballers so what is the problem?
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It is not a coincidence that the msot successful teams do not have many tall players in the starting XI. And this is not just a Spanish thing but the rule if we go by history.
 

iluvoursolskjær

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I think our tall players have a lot more going for them than just their height tbf (bar arguably Fellaini). But in the Premier League particularly, where teams may try: go long, take us off our game physically, or nick a goal from a set piece after parking the bus all game - you can see its' advantages.
 

Treble

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CG1010 said:
When these 'tall' players have helped the club to score 15 goals in 5 games this season, and have generally been outperforming others in our team, I don't see what's the fuss? Clearly they are not just tall players but also happen to have skill. Should we start buying short players just because we have several tall players now?
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These 5 games were mostly against average/poor teams.
 

The Bloody-Nine

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Treble said:
It is not a coincidence that the msot successful teams do not have many tall players in the starting XI. And this is not just a Spanish thing but the rule if we go by history.
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Jose's first extremely successful Chelsea team had a lot of tall players.
 

Treble

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If Jose succeeds with these big players, he will defy the trend in modern football and will show that he sees somethig better than the other managers.

If he fails, well, one of the reasons might be very clear.
 

Troozi

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I'm sure I heard Jose talk about this in an interview.

I imagine there's lots of good reason, in particular when going forward. One tactical advantage for defending might be, if you're playing against a team that's lacking tall players and would normally like to pass the ball through the middle. We can pack the center and keep it tight, forcing them to go wide and their only option is to cross the ball. It'll be difficult for them to take advantage when we have so many tall players in the box to head away.
 
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Treble

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Rusholme Ruffian said:
Those teams weren't successful because their players were small though were they? They were successful because they were good!
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Being brilliant on the ball, quick, flexible and being not very tall are strongly correlated. The likes of Zlatan and Pogba are exceptions but they are still not flexible and dynamic enough over short distances. If you make a team of Xavis and a team of Zlatans, the latter won't touch the ball (I'm exaggerating to make the point clearer).
 

RedStarUnited

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Treble said:
I think that Pogba and Matic will struggle in midfield in the big games, especially against teams that press like mad.
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Thats where the other big tall players come in - enter Feillaini and long balls. Remember against City last year Jose was furious that we kept playing into their press and not going over it.
 

LoneStar

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So we should buy short players because they are short now? It's no secret that Jose likes a physical team, which will break up the opposition play, and dominate aerially. Players like Matic and Pogba do have technical ability on top of being physical. The defence of all teams are usually tall anyway. Which leaves our attacking options, where Mikhi and Mata are regular starters. Both are below 5'8.

I see no issue with this. It gives the team another way to attack (set piece and corners). Having someone like Perisic would do wonders for this team though. We need a good crosser to take advantage of that height.
 

The Bloody-Nine

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Treble said:
The first team were better. The second had a very good season domestically but struggled in Europe
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They were still successful which is the point. It's a weird thing to be concerned with, in my opinion. We're top of the league and just won 3 nil in the CL.
 

Treble

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Kostur said:
No, Lampard, Drogba, Mikel, Ballack, Terry, Carvalho, Shevchenko, Drogba, Huth, Gudjohnsen.

Lampard isn't small by the way.
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Their midfield didn't include a single very tall palyer before the arrival of Ballack but they got worse then!
 

12OunceEpilogue

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Troozi said:
I'm sure I heard Jose talk about this in an interview.

I imagine there's lots of good reason, in particular when going forward. One tactical advantage for defending might be, if you're playing against a team that's lacking tall players and would normally like to pass the ball through the middle. We can pack the center and keep it tight, forcing them to go wide and their only option is to cross the ball. It'll be difficult for them to take advantage when we have so many tall players in the box to head away.
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Unless Jones decides to fall on his arse of course. But yes I agree.

I think Jose is trying to make us bigger and strongly as a squad and see it only as a positive. We put the game to bed yesterday with two headed goals, which we sure as hell couldn't have done with short technical players. The fact that our taller players are on the whole good with the ball at their feet too (Lukaku, Pogba, Matic) means we are dangerous on the deck and in the air rather than either or.

If we signed Rory Delap and brought Pulis in as number two I'd worry, but Jose giving us more physicality is fine by me.
 

Treble

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Kostur said:
So now it's just midfield?
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It's normal for the CBs and the CFs to be tall. But Jose's first Chelsea team at their best had only Drogba as a very tall player apart from the CBs.
 
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