I considered Beckenbauer, but only as a Matthäus replacement.
Considering that my ideal 4-4-2 also has Figo and a creative forward in it, no, I don't think so.
Dominoes draft
- Thread starter Tuppet
- Start date
That wouldn't replace the creativity and outball from deep. That duo is too defensive for a 4-4-2 especially as you also have wide players join the midfield off the ball. Someone like Xavi, Scholes, Falcao etc would be essential. That's if you are going for a traditional 4-4-2 and not a shape shifting 4-2-3-1.
From my experience Messi and Maradona are always the fan favorites around here. Still the one Edgar posted is an option when facing GOAT midfielders across the line. As a pure #10 I agree with you - Zico is better, but that's his bread and butter. As an 8, 9 or practically any other position it's Di Stefano.Too workmanlike, lacks flair, no need for Alfredo's defense there especially when he has a superior #10 in his ranks.
But yeah, for all the Messi-Maradona stuff, Enigma is by far the favourite here.
Indeed. Of course Kaiser and the Dutch lad have a shout. Rijkaard IMO is a must as he's the DM or defensive B2B. The other is the creative B2B - be that Beckenbauer, Matthaus or Neeskens.
Corrected that for you
The problem with Rijkaard in a 4-4-2 is he can neither be the best B2B player or the best deep lying playmaker (GOAT at this primarily) with defensive duties being fulfilled.
Matthaus is your GOAT B2B and Kaiser is your GOAT playmaker with uncompromising defensive shifts.
Among the permutations among the 3, My ranking would be
1. Matthaus + Kaiser
2. Matthaus + Rijkaard
3. Kaiser + Rijkaard
Matthaus should be the first name on a team sheet if the plan is to go for a 4-4-2
Matthaus is your GOAT B2B and Kaiser is your GOAT playmaker with uncompromising defensive shifts.
Among the permutations among the 3, My ranking would be
1. Matthaus + Kaiser
2. Matthaus + Rijkaard
3. Kaiser + Rijkaard
Matthaus should be the first name on a team sheet if the plan is to go for a 4-4-2
Iniesta also brings a lot of playmaking from the side if needed. It won't lack creative spark. There is of course another issue as Zico was unexpected gift so I have to bench one of AdS(won't be him), Kalle and Zico, but then again depends on the opponent.
Your 4-4-2 in recent drafts was fecking awesome which also had Robbo/Voronin and Giggs/Becks wings which also deserves a mention.
Surely you are forgetting someone.
Folks, any idea how I could change the status below my name. For example Enigma has 'You know who'.
Have a @Gio inspired one but dunno how to set.
Have a @Gio inspired one but dunno how to set.
A thread in the admin or the general forum asking for it is what usually works. no
I never forget about him.
I'm sure Moby didn't ask for his tbf.
I don't remember when I got it also, but I like it.After what I've been through regarding username and tagline changes I'm more than content with this one.I'm sure Moby didn't ask for his tbf.
And it was obvious given the username.No idea how this whole discussion emerged but this post summarises most of what's been said pretty well.
IMO you are all running down Rijkaard (more than a DM), doing something similar with Matthäus (more than a B2B shuttler) and blowing up Kaiser's playmaking contribution as a midfielder by comparison.
Any two of those would make for a phenomenal midfield be it 442 or 4231 and the better combination would largely be a result of what the rest of the team looks like. If anything it's your highest rated one which may not gel well.
You don't need a proper DM in a 4-4-2 unlike a 4-2-3-1 where the wide players can be out and out attackers. In a 442 you have a 4 man midfield and no #10 which requires a very dynamic and creative CM pair. Taking the Scholes and Keane example which is probably the best showcase of that setup we have one extremely creative and hard working CM partnered with an insane work horse box to box player. I agree with idm, Kaiser and Matthaus fulfil those roles but if I have Rijkaard it will be as a box to box in place of Matthaus, not alongside him.
Splitting hair really as all those pairs are great but for me there is a need of a cultured thread in the needle playmaker in there. e.g. Falcao and Matthaus would be a standout.
Massively different tho.
Kaizer in midfield is no different than any other B2B midfielder. I don't get him as a "playmaker".
Keane-Scholes / Simeone - Veron:Keane/Simeone is the B2B and Scholes/Veron are the playmaker. Hell we played Keane-Butt in so many games! Milan won 2 CLs with Rijkaard-Ancelotti in 4-4-2. Rijkaard/Matthaus is an upgrade in all aspects.
In terms of vision and creativity? Not really.
At least not if you are looking to be on the front foot. Will be great in a counter attacking setup definitely similar to Gilberto and Vieira at Arsenal.
Well, it's a 4-4-2 and not really suited for possession play. We don't really have to sit back, but counters through flanks are the best way to goal imo.
Between Rijakaard/Matthaus and Rijkaard/Kaizer, I don't see the later having more vision and creativity. For both pairs, I see a distinct lack in long passing, which would help more if we had a defensive B2B partnering with a DLP, a la Scholes/Alonso etc.
Not possession play, but direct attacking football where we had a CM constantly pinging balls to the flanks and had top wingers doing the penetration. I don't see either Matthaus or Rijkaard adhering to something like that, not that they can't but that's not their style of play. Their best was in very different tactical setups a farcry from a flat 4-4-2. Even at Milan he had Gullit as a third midfielder who was just a phenomenal freak who could teleport between midfield and attack. But otherwise if you are looking at Yorke-Cole or Shearer-Sutton kind of partnerships that would be found in conventional 442s then for me a need for a proper passer and one who can control the tempo is there. Either Rijkaard or Matthaus are fine in the all action box to box CM role but not quite in the other. If the opposition parks the bus and doesn't give any space to counter then there would be no one to break a packed defense.
- 2mufc0/mazhar13 - 1. B. Robson (44) 2. R. Baggio (54) 3. F. Redondo (300) 4. A. Picchi (480) 5. W. Zeman (213) 6. R. Dierckx (519) 7. H. Sanchez (10) 8. J. Boateng (306) 9. P. Montero (75) 10. M. Camoranesi (375) 11. R. Lewandowski (258) 12. P. Breitner (112) 13. B. Oblak (159) 14. N. Hof (107) 15. U. Seeler (270)
- Diarm - 1. D. Irwin (72) 2. Ronaldinho (453) 3. G. Batistuta (84) 4. L. Suarez Miramontes (111) 5. R. Schramseis (204) 6. M. Preud'Homme (78) 7. C. Seedorf (76) 8. S. Aguero (62) 9. D. Bergkamp (35) 10. D. Deschamps (24) 11. M. Hummels (60) 12. KH Schnellinger (46) 13. K. Augenthaler (1253) 14. Mimis Plessas (27) 15. M. Kaltz (152)
- Lord Slnister - 1. R. Keane (88) 2. L. Messi (19) 3. D. Maradona (29) 4. S. Kocsis (40) 5. J. Smistik (690) 6. E. Gerets (111) 7. J. Stam (133) 8. D. de Gea (18) 9. R. Pires (39) 10. Tigana (67), 11. Ribery (46) 12. F. Beckenbauer (26) 13. C. Ziege (300) 14. G. Sideris (110) 15. K. H. Forster (60)
- Enigma - 1. L. Figo (23) 2. A. Iniesta (1) 3. K.-H. Rummenigge (44) 4. Di Stefano (14) 5. J. Bican (17) 6. F. Rijkaard (14) 7. R. Ayala (48) 8. A. Cole (39) 9. S. Campbell (38) 10. M. Ballack (42) 11. W. Sagnol (118) 12. Zico (60) 13 T. Schumacher (270) 14. Some Greek Simantiris sheep (81) 16. L. Matthäus (93)
- Pat Mustard - 1. Romario (38) 2. L. Thuram (69) 3. A. Brehme (16) 4. R. Kopa (35) 5. A. Puc (192) 6. P. Vieira (61) 7. A. Shevchenko (31) 8. N. Vidic (22) 9. J. Veron (178) 10. S. Gerrard (37) 11. O. Kahn (60) 12. W. Samuel (234) 13. W. Schulz (90) 14. Z. Čajkovski (78) 15. M. Sammer (237)
- Moby - 1. M. Platini (183) 2. M. Amoros (47) 3. G. Scirea (16) 4. R. Marche (207) 5. R. Braine (66) 6. A. Del Piero (11) 7. C. Puyol (305) 8. P. Evra (240) 9. G. Popescu (12) 10. C. Vieri (23) 11. G. Chiellini (128) 12. L. Modric (18) 13. S. Maier (8) 14. I. Petkovic (40)
- green_smiley - 1. J. Rep (24) 2. G. Weah (300) 3. C. Gentile (75) 4. E. Happel (150) 5. B. Voorhoof (240) 6. J. Kohler (32) 7. E. Abidal (28) 8. R. Giggs (200) 9. P. Guardiola (45) 10. G. Gattuso (70) 11. Tiago (390) 12. I. Casillas (46) 13. R. Bonhof (27) 14. D. Holcer (60)
- Tuppet - 1. J. Cruyff (55) 2. E. Davids (124) 3. Z. Boniek (18) 4. E. Ocwirk (92) 5. A. Baeten (56) 6. P. Littbarski (210) 7. G. Zambrotta (86) 8. R. van Nistelrooy (81) 9. L. Blanc (240) 10. T. Silva (145) 11. T. Courtois (45) 12. D. Carvajal (130) 13. B. Vogts (157) 14. M. Fazlagić (144)
@Moby
That’s a game changer for you @Pat_Mustard
- 2mufc0/mazhar13 - 1. B. Robson (44) 2. R. Baggio (54) 3. F. Redondo (300) 4. A. Picchi (480) 5. W. Zeman (213) 6. R. Dierckx (519) 7. H. Sanchez (10) 8. J. Boateng (306) 9. P. Montero (75) 10. M. Camoranesi (375) 11. R. Lewandowski (258) 12. P. Breitner (112) 13. B. Oblak (159) 14. N. Hof (107) 15. U. Seeler (270)
- Diarm - 1. D. Irwin (72) 2. Ronaldinho (453) 3. G. Batistuta (84) 4. L. Suarez Miramontes (111) 5. R. Schramseis (204) 6. M. Preud'Homme (78) 7. C. Seedorf (76) 8. S. Aguero (62) 9. D. Bergkamp (35) 10. D. Deschamps (24) 11. M. Hummels (60) 12. KH Schnellinger (46) 13. K. Augenthaler (1253) 14. Mimis Plessas (27) 15. M. Kaltz (152)
- Lord Slnister - 1. R. Keane (88) 2. L. Messi (19) 3. D. Maradona (29) 4. S. Kocsis (40) 5. J. Smistik (690) 6. E. Gerets (111) 7. J. Stam (133) 8. D. de Gea (18) 9. R. Pires (39) 10. Tigana (67), 11. Ribery (46) 12. F. Beckenbauer (26) 13. C. Ziege (300) 14. G. Sideris (110) 15. K. H. Forster (60)
- Enigma - 1. L. Figo (23) 2. A. Iniesta (1) 3. K.-H. Rummenigge (44) 4. Di Stefano (14) 5. J. Bican (17) 6. F. Rijkaard (14) 7. R. Ayala (48) 8. A. Cole (39) 9. S. Campbell (38) 10. M. Ballack (42) 11. W. Sagnol (118) 12. Zico (60) 13 T. Schumacher (270) 14. Some Greek Simantiris sheep (81) 16. L. Matthäus (93)
- Pat Mustard - 1. Romario (38) 2. L. Thuram (69) 3. A. Brehme (16) 4. R. Kopa (35) 5. A. Puc (192) 6. P. Vieira (61) 7. A. Shevchenko (31) 8. N. Vidic (22) 9. J. Veron (178) 10. S. Gerrard (37) 11. O. Kahn (60) 12. W. Samuel (234) 13. W. Schulz (90) 14. Z. Čajkovski (78) 15. M. Sammer (237)
- Moby - 1. M. Platini (183) 2. M. Amoros (47) 3. G. Scirea (16) 4. R. Marche (207) 5. R. Braine (66) 6. A. Del Piero (11) 7. C. Puyol (305) 8. P. Evra (240) 9. G. Popescu (12) 10. C. Vieri (23) 11. G. Chiellini (128) 12. L. Modric (18) 13. S. Maier (8) 14. I. Petkovic (40) 15. G. Bergomi
- green_smiley - 1. J. Rep (24) 2. G. Weah (300) 3. C. Gentile (75) 4. E. Happel (150) 5. B. Voorhoof (240) 6. J. Kohler (32) 7. E. Abidal (28) 8. R. Giggs (200) 9. P. Guardiola (45) 10. G. Gattuso (70) 11. Tiago (390) 12. I. Casillas (46) 13. R. Bonhof (27) 14. D. Holcer (60)
- Tuppet - 1. J. Cruyff (55) 2. E. Davids (124) 3. Z. Boniek (18) 4. E. Ocwirk (92) 5. A. Baeten (56) 6. P. Littbarski (210) 7. G. Zambrotta (86) 8. R. van Nistelrooy (81) 9. L. Blanc (240) 10. T. Silva (145) 11. T. Courtois (45) 12. D. Carvajal (130) 13. B. Vogts (157) 14. M. Fazlagić (144)
I'm a generous man, @green_smiley
There is an interesting edge case and hopefully clarify it before it becomes an issue. A player is not considered to have played with himself (haha) . That is if you have to pick a player who has played with X you can not pick X himself. The only time it would happen if the player that was picked last in this round becomes available in next reinforcement round. In that case the first team drafting can not pick him.
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I can't see much difference between playing Keane or Rijkaard. I agree he wouldn't be the creative spark, but Matthäus can do that. Maybe not the most inventive, but certainly can control the tempo. The wingers and support striker can add creativity and flair to the extent needed.
Too many choices. Can't compute
Yes, but these aren't one dimensional players we are talking about. Heck, they can even play either side
Well, it's not like Enigma will aim for a Shearer-Sutton when he has ADS, Zico and Kalle
There's a huge difference in the wingers. Beckham can't play in a 4231 and Messi can't play in a 442. In a 4231 the CM pair is a double pivot allowing the front 4 to attack. In a 442 a lot of times its up to the CM to be the attacking/creative force and break the opposition down. Our pair of Keane and Scholes was incredibly dynamic and had a proper playmaker with the touch of a genius who had the bulk of the ball and controlled the tempo. That was a great feature and essential with the wide players being midfielders.Yes, but these aren't one dimensional players we are talking about. Heck, they can even play either side
Similarly if one of the forwards is a #10-ish it becomes a 4411 like Arsenal who could afford Vieira and Petit/Gilberto behind Bergkamp and Henry. In a 442 you have two forwards who rely on service from wingers and through the middle, which is why again a central playmaker is important.
Again all these are great players and 'can' do everything but I'm talking of having someone who is world class at doing that.
Having Zico automatically takes it away from a 442. No role for such a player in that formation.Well, it's not like Enigma will aim for a Shearer-Sutton when he has ADS, Zico and Kalle
Fcuk it, Luis Ronaldo it is
- 2mufc0/mazhar13 - 1. B. Robson (44) 2. R. Baggio (54) 3. F. Redondo (300) 4. A. Picchi (480) 5. W. Zeman (213) 6. R. Dierckx (519) 7. H. Sanchez (10) 8. J. Boateng (306) 9. P. Montero (75) 10. M. Camoranesi (375) 11. R. Lewandowski (258) 12. P. Breitner (112) 13. B. Oblak (159) 14. N. Hof (107) 15. U. Seeler (270)
- Diarm - 1. D. Irwin (72) 2. Ronaldinho (453) 3. G. Batistuta (84) 4. L. Suarez Miramontes (111) 5. R. Schramseis (204) 6. M. Preud'Homme (78) 7. C. Seedorf (76) 8. S. Aguero (62) 9. D. Bergkamp (35) 10. D. Deschamps (24) 11. M. Hummels (60) 12. KH Schnellinger (46) 13. K. Augenthaler (1253) 14. Mimis Plessas (27) 15. M. Kaltz (152)
- Lord Slnister - 1. R. Keane (88) 2. L. Messi (19) 3. D. Maradona (29) 4. S. Kocsis (40) 5. J. Smistik (690) 6. E. Gerets (111) 7. J. Stam (133) 8. D. de Gea (18) 9. R. Pires (39) 10. Tigana (67), 11. Ribery (46) 12. F. Beckenbauer (26) 13. C. Ziege (300) 14. G. Sideris (110) 15. K. H. Forster (60)
- Enigma - 1. L. Figo (23) 2. A. Iniesta (1) 3. K.-H. Rummenigge (44) 4. Di Stefano (14) 5. J. Bican (17) 6. F. Rijkaard (14) 7. R. Ayala (48) 8. A. Cole (39) 9. S. Campbell (38) 10. M. Ballack (42) 11. W. Sagnol (118) 12. Zico (60) 13 T. Schumacher (270) 14. Some Greek Simantiris sheep (81) 16. L. Matthäus (93)
- Pat Mustard - 1. Romario (38) 2. L. Thuram (69) 3. A. Brehme (16) 4. R. Kopa (35) 5. A. Puc (192) 6. P. Vieira (61) 7. A. Shevchenko (31) 8. N. Vidic (22) 9. J. Veron (178) 10. S. Gerrard (37) 11. O. Kahn (60) 12. W. Samuel (234) 13. W. Schulz (90) 14. Z. Čajkovski (78) 15. M. Sammer (237)
- Moby - 1. M. Platini (183) 2. M. Amoros (47) 3. G. Scirea (16) 4. R. Marche (207) 5. R. Braine (66) 6. A. Del Piero (11) 7. C. Puyol (305) 8. P. Evra (240) 9. G. Popescu (12) 10. C. Vieri (23) 11. G. Chiellini (128) 12. L. Modric (18) 13. S. Maier (8) 14. I. Petkovic (40) 15. G. Bergomi
- green_smiley - 1. J. Rep (24) 2. G. Weah (300) 3. C. Gentile (75) 4. E. Happel (150) 5. B. Voorhoof (240) 6. J. Kohler (32) 7. E. Abidal (28) 8. R. Giggs (200) 9. P. Guardiola (45) 10. G. Gattuso (70) 11. Tiago (390) 12. I. Casillas (46) 13. R. Bonhof (27) 14. D. Holcer (60) 15. L. Ronaldo
- Tuppet - 1. J. Cruyff (55) 2. E. Davids (124) 3. Z. Boniek (18) 4. E. Ocwirk (92) 5. A. Baeten (56) 6. P. Littbarski (210) 7. G. Zambrotta (86) 8. R. van Nistelrooy (81) 9. L. Blanc (240) 10. T. Silva (145) 11. T. Courtois (45) 12. D. Carvajal (130) 13. B. Vogts (157) 14. M. Fazlagić (144)
QF squads
http://www.worldfootball.net/report/serie-a-2006-2007-inter-ac-milan/
- 2mufc0/mazhar13 - 1. B. Robson (44) 2. R. Baggio (54) 3. F. Redondo (300) 4. A. Picchi (480) 5. W. Zeman (213) 6. R. Dierckx (519) 7. H. Sanchez (10) 8. J. Boateng (306) 9. P. Montero (75) 10. M. Camoranesi (375) 11. R. Lewandowski (258) 12. P. Breitner (112) 13. B. Oblak (159) 14. N. Hof (107) 15. U. Seeler (270)
- Diarm - 1. D. Irwin (72) 2. Ronaldinho (453) 3. G. Batistuta (84) 4. L. Suarez Miramontes (111) 5. R. Schramseis (204) 6. M. Preud'Homme (78) 7. C. Seedorf (76) 8. S. Aguero (62) 9. D. Bergkamp (35) 10. D. Deschamps (24) 11. M. Hummels (60) 12. KH Schnellinger (46) 13. K. Augenthaler (1253) 14. Mimis Plessas (27) 15. M. Kaltz (152)
- Lord Slnister - 1. R. Keane (88) 2. L. Messi (19) 3. D. Maradona (29) 4. S. Kocsis (40) 5. J. Smistik (690) 6. E. Gerets (111) 7. J. Stam (133) 8. D. de Gea (18) 9. R. Pires (39) 10. Tigana (67), 11. Ribery (46) 12. F. Beckenbauer (26) 13. C. Ziege (300) 14. G. Sideris (110) 15. K. H. Forster (60)
- Enigma - 1. L. Figo (23) 2. A. Iniesta (1) 3. K.-H. Rummenigge (44) 4. Di Stefano (14) 5. J. Bican (17) 6. F. Rijkaard (14) 7. R. Ayala (48) 8. A. Cole (39) 9. S. Campbell (38) 10. M. Ballack (42) 11. W. Sagnol (118) 12. Zico (60) 13 T. Schumacher (270) 14. Some Greek Simantiris sheep (81) 16. L. Matthäus (93)
- Pat Mustard - 1. Romario (38) 2. L. Thuram (69) 3. A. Brehme (16) 4. R. Kopa (35) 5. A. Puc (192) 6. P. Vieira (61) 7. A. Shevchenko (31) 8. N. Vidic (22) 9. J. Veron (178) 10. S. Gerrard (37) 11. O. Kahn (60) 12. W. Samuel (234) 13. W. Schulz (90) 14. Z. Čajkovski (78) 15. M. Sammer (237)
- Moby - 1. M. Platini (183) 2. M. Amoros (47) 3. G. Scirea (16) 4. R. Marche (207) 5. R. Braine (66) 6. A. Del Piero (11) 7. C. Puyol (305) 8. P. Evra (240) 9. G. Popescu (12) 10. C. Vieri (23) 11. G. Chiellini (128) 12. L. Modric (18) 13. S. Maier (8) 14. I. Petkovic (40) 15. G. Bergomi (32)
- green_smiley - 1. J. Rep (24) 2. G. Weah (300) 3. C. Gentile (75) 4. E. Happel (150) 5. B. Voorhoof (240) 6. J. Kohler (32) 7. E. Abidal (28) 8. R. Giggs (200) 9. P. Guardiola (45) 10. G. Gattuso (70) 11. Tiago (390) 12. I. Casillas (46) 13. R. Bonhof (27) 14. D. Holcer (60) 15. L. Ronaldo (28)
- Tuppet - 1. J. Cruyff (55) 2. E. Davids (124) 3. Z. Boniek (18) 4. E. Ocwirk (92) 5. A. Baeten (56) 6. P. Littbarski (210) 7. G. Zambrotta (86) 8. R. van Nistelrooy (81) 9. L. Blanc (240) 10. T. Silva (145) 11. T. Courtois (45) 12. D. Carvajal (130) 13. B. Vogts (157) 14. M. Fazlagić (144) 15. P. Maldini (17)
Cheers @Invictus
LS vs Enigma !!
LS vs Enigma !!
Pick dates, update the list, usual drill. Lets try and wrap it up this week.
1. Pat_Mustad vs 2mufc0 / mazhar13 -
2. Diarm vs Green_smiley -
3. Tuppet vs Moby -
4. Enigma vs Lord SInister -
I am good for any weekday @Moby Can't do the weekends.
1. Pat_Mustad vs 2mufc0 / mazhar13 -
2. Diarm vs Green_smiley -
3. Tuppet vs Moby -
4. Enigma vs Lord SInister -
I am good for any weekday @Moby Can't do the weekends.
Probably at the right time. Big decision coming up who to bench.
When is the right time for you @Lord SInister ?
When is the right time for you @Lord SInister ?
Hmm...I'm okay with Thursday pending @2mufc0's availability.