If there's a fanbase that's asking for fergies head beyond 2000s they're the problem. Not mourinho
It is ever possible to speak positively about a win?
- Thread starter Di Maria's angel
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Youse may not be happy with the team at the moment.
But think about this. If this year we're managed by poch/conte/ancelotti/etc. We're still most probably lower than 2nd.
And it doesn't take much to prove it, conte is just next door and he's 3rd.
But think about this. If this year we're managed by poch/conte/ancelotti/etc. We're still most probably lower than 2nd.
And it doesn't take much to prove it, conte is just next door and he's 3rd.
Some people deserve Van Gaal.
We have been infiltrated by the enemy, Im surprised people havent realised it yet. The majority of people being overly negative arent United supporters. Its pretty obvious.
It's quite a feat how I managed to do that without mentioning fergie, old days or walloping small teams. I am pleasantly surprised at my writing skills.
Quote the posts.
Very good point. Jose's brand of football lacks a bit of life and joy to be honest. I've always felt this. He's clearly all about success and efficiency. So, when he's not winning big trophies it doesn't leave as much reason to get excited about as, say, coming second whilst playing Klopp football.
If we win the league next season I'm sure noone will mind being functional but very efficient this season. If he doesn't it will be an issue.
Thing is the management and players owe absolutely shit all to you. This is their profession and it's incredibly competitive and difficult.
They presently have the second highest goals total in the league, joint best defence and our highest win percentage in about 80 years.
I'll be supporting them however they see fit to do exactly what they're supposed to do- win- and that's before getting to the point that were not actually even playing that badly. Were Watford away and arsenal away boring? Ya we were defensive against city go ask Tottenham and Liverpool how the other way worked.
The indignation from guys sitting at home watching games with a laptop on their knee and a phone beside them is pretty hilarious
They presently have the second highest goals total in the league, joint best defence and our highest win percentage in about 80 years.
I'll be supporting them however they see fit to do exactly what they're supposed to do- win- and that's before getting to the point that were not actually even playing that badly. Were Watford away and arsenal away boring? Ya we were defensive against city go ask Tottenham and Liverpool how the other way worked.
The indignation from guys sitting at home watching games with a laptop on their knee and a phone beside them is pretty hilarious
Conte has also won a league title at Chelsea unlike Jose at United so your theory doesn't take much to prove because you just made it up.
Anyway I don't think any fans here are longing for Conte either.
You know that Moyes era, we were 7th 90% of the season and being dicked at home 0-3 against Liverpool and City etc without a prayer, right now we're 2nd and so far on a title winning ratio of points per game, theres an ever so light difference in circumstances to be quite fair.
Eh.. Jose won the league as well just 2 years ago. the EL just last year.
I don't think Conte would win it this year or next year, so it's not much different
Besides, what part do I made up? I didn't make up the premier league table my friend. Chelsea as of now lies 3rd.
Not sure if serious.
The team that won the title under Conte was a lot more Jose’s team than this United team is.... and a lot more Jose’s team than Conte’s
I see your point, but don't you think you're rushing into conclusion? We are playing much better than last season and that is progress, not the one I'd love but I take it, Manchester City is playing so sick football and, to me, they already won the League, but you have to reckon that this is the best united we've seen since Moyes took the job in 2013.
This should be a positive thread or whatever that means. But, I can't help coming in and saying that I agree with your post completely.
We could be the best 2nd team in the league, CL or cups but if it means having to bear with a lot of ugly football along the way, I doubt there is much positive to that.
Even winning some with so much ugly football standard on and off the pitch for a big team didn't save this manager in long term at some of his previous clubs. So the negativity is nothing so much new here with this manager despite the stats looks ok for us.
Hanging on for dear life against West Brom for a win is not what I expect of United. When we win against good teams the positivity is there. The win at the Emirates was fantastic. The draw against Liverpool was a good result for me though many had a go at Jose.
It is understandable that people would compare us to City as they are playing like we used to play in the SAF era where we were winning by big scores and playing well. To me where we lost was the loss to Huddersfield and the draw to Stoke. If we had those 4 points I do not think we would have lost to City as Jose would go with a better defensive plan.
It is understandable that people would compare us to City as they are playing like we used to play in the SAF era where we were winning by big scores and playing well. To me where we lost was the loss to Huddersfield and the draw to Stoke. If we had those 4 points I do not think we would have lost to City as Jose would go with a better defensive plan.
When it's a deserved win and the team played some great football - sure. But such if we win like that against bottom-placed team as we have against born and WBA, the criticism is absolutely justified.
Sure, you can't always play good and some results you need to grind, but the key word here is some. When it's half of your results - your overall play is rather bad. It's simple as that.
Alsoi don't get the "results all that matter" people, i sometimes wonder are they actually bother watching football? If so, then why exactly? Shouldn't they just check livescore for a final result?
Sure, you can't always play good and some results you need to grind, but the key word here is some. When it's half of your results - your overall play is rather bad. It's simple as that.
Alsoi don't get the "results all that matter" people, i sometimes wonder are they actually bother watching football? If so, then why exactly? Shouldn't they just check livescore for a final result?
I think as long as Mourinho is our manager would be a huge part of fans complaining, thats Mourinho's way, you love him or you hate him. Doesn't matter if we win the league because his style of play is not Guardiola's or entertaining, so there is a huge amount of people not satisfied with three points per game.
What i am wondering is if we will not win the league this year or the next, but will be comfortably in top-3, will those pro-jose fans want him to carry on?
You said that we'd be worse off this season with Conte. There are too many factors involved to make such a broad and baseless claim. And pointing to Conte's current position with them at their respective clubs after half a season is about as useful as pointing to the table last year (not very).
Yeah and much better than the sorry excuse for football they played in 15/16. This is all quite pointless.Not sure if serious.
The team that won the title under Conte was a lot more Jose’s team than this United team is.... and a lot more Jose’s team than Conte’s
Anyway, I wouldn't swap Jose for Conte but he has won a league title for Chelsea and hopefully Jose can do the same for us.
Sure
West ham manager is see Alex now? I must have missed a season of football.
Also, when you are done with the angry red mist in your eyes at the mere mention of city, read the context to that post if that doesn't go against your agenda.
To those complaining about Mourinho, which other manager can do better than him at the moment? Which manager can get this current United team to win games by playing beautiful attacking football? Yes Man City have a great manager, but don't forget they also have much better quality players compared to United. City were buying high quality technical players even before Guardiola arrived, we need to do the same if we want to compete with them.
I missed the game but saw that it was a hard fought win but reading the United forum made me go back and check the result again
Chin up fellas, our useless lump of a centre forward is into double figures by December, we are behind only a well oiled City team and we have Pogba to come back to light up the league!
Chin up fellas, our useless lump of a centre forward is into double figures by December, we are behind only a well oiled City team and we have Pogba to come back to light up the league!
Now some fans become very amateur in supporting the team, try to find anything any detail to moan about as long as we are not first! in any other season we would be but this year we have one of the once in life time exceptional side in front of us. I'm afraid we can't find a top manager after him if he refuses to renew his contract or the board make things complicated.
Just like some people thinking we'd suddenly be a free flowing football machine with Poch/Conte or even Guardiola.
It just doesn't work that way.
3 Managers has come since SAF and they all fail, while the jury is still out on Mourinho. My bet is that unless we fix the fundamental we won't be better off in the long run whoever the manager is. Like you say too many factors at play and it's a cop out to think another manager would do better than Mourinho. A more attacking football perhaps, but point wise.. it's hard to top United's point haul this year, and history reflects that it's only City/Chelsea/Arsenal tops it. And City is managed by pep on a perfect start, Chelsea was Mourinho's, Arsenal is the invicible. Mourinho is doing a good job, not a pleasant football but a working football, just because Pep is doing much better doesn't mean Jose is bad.
It's like if you're mate is going out with a nympho. Only she's a bit of a minger. Great, he's getting laid all the time but you know he can do better.
I think this is the crux of the matter. We were 6th last season, currently we're second with a 3 point gap on Chelsea and 10 points on Spurs who finished 1st and 2nd last year. We've improved considerably this season. We've outscored Liverpool (who the press are creaming themselves over due to their attacking play) and West Brom held Liverpool to a draw midweek so they're probably on a bit of a high with their new manager.
For all the clear signs of improvement we're still not happy. We're talking about another 90 mil investment in Jan and probably the same again (at least) in the summer. We'll continue to improve.
Game, set and match.
We've had a very good season so far, and those close games where we had to grind out results against weaker opposition always happened. The thing is that now, compared to last season, we are able to turn them into victories not draws. The wonderfully amazing City have had plenty of these games this season too - Bournemouth, West Ham, Southampton etc. were all beaten by a scruff of the neck.
Obviously we would prefer to play more entertaining football but it's kind of clear that us being able to play at a better pace and with more creativity is largely dependent on Pogba. We will get better when he comes back, and we will further strengthen the team in the upcoming transfer windows to make it come competitive.
I can't really bring myself to complain about a season in which we have 41 points from 18 games. We will very likely finish with over 80 points which is great. I don't think City have become a benchmark, what they are doing this season is way out of ordinary and cannot be matched at the minute.
Obviously we would prefer to play more entertaining football but it's kind of clear that us being able to play at a better pace and with more creativity is largely dependent on Pogba. We will get better when he comes back, and we will further strengthen the team in the upcoming transfer windows to make it come competitive.
I can't really bring myself to complain about a season in which we have 41 points from 18 games. We will very likely finish with over 80 points which is great. I don't think City have become a benchmark, what they are doing this season is way out of ordinary and cannot be matched at the minute.
You genuinely cannot see the difference between moaning about the time Moyes was in charge and this? A season where we have the best defense in the league, scored the second most amount of goals (including 7 games we've scored 4) and on course to finish with the highest win percentage for a United side since the 1900s? That on the back of winning two cups last season and cruising through our champions league group this year?
There was nothing to be positive about during Moyes' spell. Are you telling me you can't find ANYTHING positive in those aforementioned points? You cannot see the tremendous improvements we've made under Jose during his time here? Feck me this place is tragic.
As I said yesterday, the top four points totals in premier league history after 18 games is:
City this year 52
Chelsea 43
Afc invincibles 42
United this year 41
People shitting themselves over an unprecedented start by City, are ignoring how far we have come under Jose.
Firstly, I don't think I've said that Jose is doing badly. Objectively, he's doing fairly well if you look at any metric to measure progress by. But of course he is at Manchester United and at the end of the day he will only succeed when he delivers big trophies. And that will require another step or three up to be made. We're now beating weak teams consistently. The question is whether we can show our class in all sorts of dicey situations particularly in games that are tight and teams press us I.e the better team. Jose will have to ensure that to turn us into champions.
Secondly, it's not a cop out. That's someone holding a different view to yours. I see this a lot over here. People seem to find it hard to understand how others can hold the opposite opinion to theirs. Thinking someone else can do a better job is not a "cop out". You don't really seem to understand the term at all.
And finally, it "doesn't work that way"? Maybe for one example it doesn't. But for another it definitely might. Unless we're assuming that every manager would do just as good a job as the other? Or that if you've won 10 trophies in the past you have to do better than a manager who has won 2? In that case, Klopp would have won the league with Leicester by 15 points?
The problem with your assertion that Conte would fair worse than Jose was that you appeared to base your view on the current league table. If you think Conte is currently an worse manager the obviously you're entitled to make that correlation and stance.
Objectively, it was a bad performance at the exception of 10 minutes where Lukaku and Lingard played well and allowed us to score.I missed the game but saw that it was a hard fought win but reading the United forum made me go back and check the result again
Chin up fellas, our useless lump of a centre forward is into double figures by December, we are behind only a well oiled City team and we have Pogba to come back to light up the league!
Getting back to topic;
It is ever possible to speak positively about a win?
Yes definitely, the start of the season was great, room for improvement in performances but it was the beginning of the season and we were scoring at will, not only Lukaku but other players to, the future looked so bright. As fans we were on cloud 9, this might be our year, Mourinho was letting the horses run, there was a certain determination/pace in our attack, a true purpose. The players were enjoying this new freedom to express themselves our biggest complaint/discussion was should we start with Rashford or Martial.
Then Pogba got injured, Fellaini subbed him and we didn't even know he was missing that day. After that came the Liverpool game, players that had been playing attacking football running free to do as they pleased to win get instructed to park the bus in to rows of red against a team with one of the leakiest defences in the league. This was the true moment to really stick it to them, but no defend at all costs was the instruction, try to snatch it and otherwise a point would suffice. That was the day something broke in the team and the players and to be honest since that day Mourinho has made a 180 degree turn when it comes to tactics and trust in the capabilities of his team. Since that day the team have lost their swagger and confidence and have not recovered. The goals have dried up, our assist king can't even make the team, individual performances have dropped and the football has been dire to watch. It is one thing to grind out results against the big teams but when you have to do it against teams like Southampton, Bournemouth and WBA fans get discouraged. Our solid defence have been leaking silly goals at set pieces and confidence seems to be at an all time low. The hangover of the City game still seems to hang over the team I really hope that once Pogba comes back he can lift the team but don't expect to much as this is a team sport and cannot expect him to carry the team.
It is ever possible to speak positively about a win?
Yes definitely, the start of the season was great, room for improvement in performances but it was the beginning of the season and we were scoring at will, not only Lukaku but other players to, the future looked so bright. As fans we were on cloud 9, this might be our year, Mourinho was letting the horses run, there was a certain determination/pace in our attack, a true purpose. The players were enjoying this new freedom to express themselves our biggest complaint/discussion was should we start with Rashford or Martial.
Then Pogba got injured, Fellaini subbed him and we didn't even know he was missing that day. After that came the Liverpool game, players that had been playing attacking football running free to do as they pleased to win get instructed to park the bus in to rows of red against a team with one of the leakiest defences in the league. This was the true moment to really stick it to them, but no defend at all costs was the instruction, try to snatch it and otherwise a point would suffice. That was the day something broke in the team and the players and to be honest since that day Mourinho has made a 180 degree turn when it comes to tactics and trust in the capabilities of his team. Since that day the team have lost their swagger and confidence and have not recovered. The goals have dried up, our assist king can't even make the team, individual performances have dropped and the football has been dire to watch. It is one thing to grind out results against the big teams but when you have to do it against teams like Southampton, Bournemouth and WBA fans get discouraged. Our solid defence have been leaking silly goals at set pieces and confidence seems to be at an all time low. The hangover of the City game still seems to hang over the team I really hope that once Pogba comes back he can lift the team but don't expect to much as this is a team sport and cannot expect him to carry the team.
I would be lying if I say I enjoy our game at times this season. We all could've easily suffered from a few heart attacks in the last 10-15 minutes of both the B'mouth and WBA games, but we eventually got the wins. And that's what matters now. Mourinho still needs a few players here and there (three summer transfer windows and all), so I would like to think that next year and the one after we'll be as dominating on the pitch, as we were during SAF's glory years.
I see negativity inexorably seeping into this thread!
Agreed, and the football was a lot more free flowing at the beginning of the season. People were praising our style, even with Jose as the manager. Jose, rightly or wrongly, seems to go into a shell with out Pogba. I can't wait to get him back.
I have no idea why people are so negative about sports. It's supposed to be an escape from all the junk out there in the real world. They must be negative about most things?
The era of Liverpool dominance was reflected in a continuing rise of United's fan base. People accepted Liverpool were a well oiled machine, but nobody said they played beautifully and the scousers couldn't give a flying feck.
United's fans had belief, expectation and a significant passion. The belief and expectation died in about October when the realization was it was going to be a long season with hopefully a good cup run. The passion mirrored the players on the park. We may have not been a well oiled machine, but we tried to win every game. We gave everyone a hard game, even though quality always overcame our passion. Though fans were not happy at losing, we very rarely lost to weaker teams and got some good results against top teams. The derby was a real derby, physical and passionate. The concept of park the bus did not really exist, but Arsenal and Liverpool mastered the back pass and play across the back line to bore the arse off everyone watching.
No internet, so unless you were a regular at matches you did not get a feel for the mood of the fans. When p*ssed off, the grounds we were at turned nasty. I never noticed fans turn on players, and I can only remember the board, Fergie and Sexton receiving anger from the fans.
Winning at all costs maybe for some fans, but not all. Just as there is significant OTT negativity, there is also way too much positivity. You read some posts and it is as though we have reached Pep's Barca level, and being second against a flying City reflects high quality performances from United. Neither are true, and the truth is somewhere between the extremes.
Ok. Sorry for asking.