Will Jose be sacked if he is going to do LVG 2015-16 and finish outside top 4?

[Kush]

Because I can't see us performing that terrible for the remaining 17-18 games in the league. We're having a terrible period at the moment, but I'm sure sooner or later our performance will rise and we'll return to winning track.

This point is being missed by a lot of people as they are venting, if we continue this form. Mourinho won't even last February never mind till end of season. Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs have all been dropping points all season long but have picked up pace in this Christmas period while we've faltered. We'll come out of this slump.

We're no different to other clubs. We don't need to keep a manager on just because it's only been a year and a half. Sometimes that's all you need to see that the man isn't up to the job.

Madrid and Chelsea survived after him and, rather than just surviving, I think we'd flourish from getting rid.

Things are not THAT bad is what I am trying to say, for a lot a 4th placed finish would not be acceptable. But, if you take a look at our league finishes over the last 4 seasons you may find it acceptable. It's all about perspective, I personally see that he has made more correct choices than wrong during his 18 months so far. I don't want to bleat about our league position but it is an improvement over last, we need to take baby steps at a time before trying radical things.

Real Madrid and Chelsea flourished after his departure because squad was filled with quality players, for instance Hazard didn't play a single minute today and Conte fielded Willian who scored/assisted 3 goals.

A lot of you overrate a lot of players in our squad. Many of them have underperformed not only under Jose but under preceding managers, how long will it take for folks to realize that there is a lot of rubbish in our squad and that won't magically change with a fresh manager? A new manager might bring more out of likes of Rashford, Martial or Pogba but what about the rest? Can he turn dross like Darmian, Blind, Fellaini, Mkhitaryan into competent players? If not, we are back to square one. A squad filled with players bought under different manager which the new manager will have to adapt to, on top of that we'll have to give him a lot of money to bring in his key personnel. Do you see where this is going? We are going to be rebuilding again and that's the worst thing we can do.

 

[NoLogo]

Wouldn't make much sense to boot him imo. He started building this team and he needs more time to finish it. If we change the manager again we will have a fresh start and rebuild again.

As much as I hate his football and his moaning I'm absolutely not in favor of sacking him before the end of next season, if he hasn't managed to make us a title challenger until then.

 

[Pyroblazer]

He should. That's finishing outside the top4 twice in 2 seasons. A FA cup didn't cut it for LvG and it won't do the trick for Jose. Before the season title challenge was the target, City run riot so it should be 2nd now, finishing 5th or 6th would be a disaster. It was already bad last year where we just wanted Top4, but the EL title saved us. This year it's unaccaptable.

 

[2 man midfield]

It's Man United. We won't be short of applicants for the vacancy.

Which of the potential candidates would catch your eye then? Because I don't see anyone more likely to win us trophies than Jose.

 

[Stubble]

One question... have you seen anything at all to suggest Jose can get the best out of our attacking players ?? If not why should we persist with this boring, mindless dross being served up week in week out and to what end ?? If anything his tactics seem to suck the life out of them. These are not poor players (at least good enough to beat the likes of Burnley, Southampton and Leicester), we have all seen their potential, but almost to a man they look deflated and clueless - if this is not down to the coaching team and thus the manager who shall we blame ? Pointing the finger at the players does not stick when the majority of them look lost and without direction in attack. 2nd place gone, Liverpool and Chelsea on a roll probably we're looking at 5th behind Spurs now if Kane stays fit and we keep playing like this. Thats a failure in my eyes with the squad we have and cash we've spent - others may have a different opinion of course ..

 

[Zoo]

Yes he will. Top 4 is the bare minimum for any manager.

 

[Raees]

Wouldn't make much sense to boot him imo. He started building this team and he needs more time to finish it. If we change the manager again we will have a fresh start and rebuild again.

As much as I hate his football and his moaning I'm absolutely not in favor of sacking him before the end of next season, if he hasn't managed to make us a title challenger until then.

Thing is two seasons in and the team still looks like it needs 7 new players. That is the managers fault, no way should the team look as half baked as it does.

 

[Kush]

Wouldn't make much sense to boot him imo. He started building this team and he needs more time to finish it. If we change the manager again we will have a fresh start and rebuild again.

As much as I hate his football and his moaning I'm absolutely not in favor of sacking him before the end of next season, if he hasn't managed to make us a title challenger until then.

I agree, we need to see out his contract and then re-asses as to whether we have improved enough during this time period or not. Of course, this is assuming we don't drop out of CL places.

Thing is two seasons in and the team still looks like it needs 7 new players. That is the managers fault, no way should the team look as half baked as it does.

Will that change with a new manager? He might think we need 8-9 players because he doesn't like few of Mourinho's signings like Lukaku for instance. Give him another summer and let him build his team, if we're still scraping around 4th spot next season then make a decision.

 

[paul cooper]

Because I can't see us performing that terrible for the remaining 17-18 games in the league. We're having a terrible period at the moment, but I'm sure sooner or later our performance will rise and we'll return to winning track.

Funny what you see different from me, everton(away),stoke(home),burnley(away),spurs(away),huddersfield (home).
for me thats a LDLLD,thats being honest

 

[SAFicus]

Outside top four? Yeah, probably, he'd have failed. I doubt he will though.

 

[Williams1960]

"We played enough to score goals, of course we missed easy chances. But I am really unhappy with the penalty. Not with Craig's performance overall, but with the penalty. I think Craig had a game without problems, but it is a big decision."

It's always the same excuse. Some cheap half penalty appeal he moans about. Or some so called 'easy chances'. What easy chances? Magic shooting from 50 yards?

Get a grip!

 

[Yagami]

This point is being missed by a lot of people as they are venting, if we continue this form. Mourinho won't even last February never mind till end of season. Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs have all been dropping points all season long but have picked up pace in this Christmas period while we've faltered. We'll come out of this slump.



Things are not THAT bad is what I am trying to say, for a lot a 4th placed finish would not be acceptable. But, if you take a look at our league finishes over the last 4 seasons you may find it acceptable. It's all about perspective, I personally see that he has made more correct choices than wrong during his 18 months so far. I don't want to bleat about our league position but it is an improvement over last, we need to take baby steps at a time before trying radical things.

Real Madrid and Chelsea flourished after his departure because squad was filled with quality players, for instance Hazard didn't play a single minute today and Conte fielded Willian who scored/assisted 3 goals.

A lot of you overrate a lot of players in our squad. Many of them have underperformed not only under Jose but under preceding managers, how long will it take for folks to realize that there is a lot of rubbish in our squad and that won't magically change with a fresh manager? A new manager might bring more out of likes of Rashford, Martial or Pogba but what about the rest? Can he turn dross like Darmian, Blind, Fellaini, Mkhitaryan into competent players? If not, we are back to square one. A squad filled with players bought under different manager which the new manager will have to adapt to, on top of that we'll have to give him a lot of money to bring in his key personnel. Do you see where this is going? We are going to be rebuilding again and that's the worst thing we can do.

It's not the position that's unacceptable (4th is fine) it's the quality of our football. I'm under no illusions about the quality of our squad - it isn't great, but it's good enough to be playing better than what we are. We still don't seem to have any sort of game plan other than lump it to Fellaini and Lukaku which, for how much we've spent, and with our training facilities, isn't good enough.

Like I said, I wouldn't expect any of the managers I mention before to win the league, but we'd play so much better than what we are doing under José and still be there or thereabouts in terms of top 4. Another rebuild isn't the worst thing we could do - the worst thing would be sticking by a guy who's clearly out of his depth because we like to give our managers the benefit of the doubt until the worst possible scenario happens.

 

[paul cooper]

Agree that it'll be criminal from both Mourinho and Ed if we didn't sign any attacking player in Jan, but I think we still have enough to secure 3rd at least. Our good start has provided us with some ground in top 4 fortunately.

What become brutally clear is we're not a title challenging time. Lot's of things need to be improved before we can think of that.

We’ll be 4th this time next week, everton will put us to the sword

 

[Peanut Butter]

It's not the position that's unacceptable (4th is fine) it's the quality of our football. I'm under no illusions about the quality of our squad - it isn't great, but it's good enough to be playing better than what we are. We still don't seem to have any sort of game plan other than lump it to Fellaini and Lukaku which, for how much we've spent, and with our training facilities, isn't good enough.

Like I said, I wouldn't expect any of the managers I mention before to win the league, but we'd play so much better than what we are doing under José and still be there or thereabouts in terms of top 4. Another rebuild isn't the worst thing we could do - the worst thing would be sticking by a guy who's clearly out of his depth because we like to give our managers the benefit of the doubt until the worst possible scenario happens.

Jose isn't out of his depth. He's just a little stubborn and has his favourite players and systems. Which is hindering us right now.

 

[minoo-utd]

Not acceptable.

 

[Yagami]

Jose isn't out of his depth. He's just a little stubborn and has his favourite players and systems. Which is hindering us right now.

We'll have to agree to disagree because it just doesn't seem like he's adjusted to modern football, and it's been like that since his 2nd season at Chelsea so, what, 3/4 years? No matter who he starts, in whatever formation, we still look disjointed and unorganised and I just don't think he's up to the task of building a team capable of playing the type of football our rivals play despite having better resources than most.

 

[Kush]

It's not the position that's unacceptable (4th is fine) it's the quality of our football. I'm under no illusions about the quality of our squad - it isn't great, but it's good enough to be playing better than what we are. We still don't seem to have any sort of game plan other than lump it to Fellaini and Lukaku which, for how much we've spent, and with our training facilities, isn't good enough.

Like I said, I wouldn't expect any of the managers I mention before to win the league, but we'd play so much better than what we are doing under José and still be there or thereabouts in terms of top 4. Another rebuild isn't the worst thing we could do - the worst thing would be sticking by a guy who's clearly out of his depth because we like to give our managers the benefit of the doubt until the worst possible scenario happens.

In that case, we are actually in agreement. I back Mourinho but I'll be first to admit quality of football isn't good enough and even with this current squad it could be better. But then again, when we hired Mourinho we kinda knew what we were going to get from him. Football is a results business, so I doubt board will be making choices on basis of type of football rather than results.

Reason why I don't want another rebuild to happen is because Mourinho is in middle of his, he has spent vasts amount of money and bought players tailored to his liking. A new manager comes in and he doesn't like a lot of Mourinho signings, what do we do then? We obviously have to give the new man money to bring in his own personnel, at the same time we'll be stuck with Mourinho's signings. Kinda like we are with Moyes and van Gaals. Improvements haven't matched the expectations we had but let Mourinho finish what he started, give him another summer let him finish this team up and then re-assess whether the investment was worth it or not.

I also vehemently disagree he is out of his depth, a manager out of his depth here was David Moyes not Jose Mourinho. Managing us is a lot more difficult given our rich history and traditions, not many managers have the balls to go against that and do their thing, which at least Mourinho is doing.

We'll have to agree to disagree because it just doesn't seem like he's adjusted to modern football, and it's been like that since his 2nd season at Chelsea so, what, 3/4 years? No matter who he starts, in whatever formation, we still look disjointed and unorganised and I just don't think he's up to the task of building a team capable of playing the type of football our rivals play despite having better resources than most.

Why discount 2014/15 season then? Is that year not in the realm of 'modern football' anymore? Truth is playing against Mourinho side was like running into a brick wall, they'd deflect everything away from their goal. In attack they'd be extremely ruthless, finishing bare few chances they'd get. These are traits which are sorely lacking in his United side, we look vulnerable at the back when defending onto a lead and in attack we look devoid of ideas at times but we butcher a lot of easy chances. Even tonight we had 3 free headers for Rashford, Lukaku and Lingard. All missed.

EDIT: Mourinho will NEVER play the type of football our rivals play, no matter how much money he spends or what players he buys. You're expecting him to do something which he has never done in his career, which is bizarre.

 

[SirAF]

Not really, because it would be clear progress isn’t being made with Jose anyway.

Of course it would. A new manager would bring in new staff, new players etc.

 

[RRCE]

I sincerely hope not. Seems like a lot of posters on here want him out, but I feel the continuity is what will help us out of this mess eventually. We are having a serious blip at the moment which we will be out of. Over the summer there will be additions to the squad which hopefully will work on our current on the field problems. He should be given the complete tenure of his contract

I agree completely. We’re obviously going through a very rough and disappointing patch at the moment, but let’s take a moment to breath.

Jose inherited a very flawed squad. In his first year, he won more trophies than some managers that many seem to salivate over have ever won. Yes, we finished outside of the top four, but that was in part a calculated risk by Jose, who prioritized the Europa League. It paid off and we won a major trophy and secured a Champions League spot. Based on last season, we have very little to moan about.

This year started well, but we’re fading. Jose has had to deal with multiple injuries and several underperforming players. There’s still time to steady the ship. Yes, Jose needs to be better, but so do the players, the board (particularly Ed) and the owners. It’s abundantly clear that Jose wasn’t fully backed this past summer. We’re seeing the results of that now. Many of these players have been around for several seasons now. Aside from young talents like Martial and Rasford, who I believe will improve with time, the majority simply won’t get any better - they just don’t have another level in them. Jose sees this. If the owners are only able / willing to fund two or three players each summer, then any meaningful turnaround will take longer.

The players need to know that this manager has the full backing of the club, and that it’s not going to be him who pays the price for their spiritless and unacceptable play. Under Sir Alex, players knew that if they didn’t perform to the best of their abilities, they’d be gone. There was zero chance that the manager would go. Hell, some very good players were shown the door just for crossing Sir Alex. Since then, things have changed. The players now know that if it all goes pear shaped, they’ll continue to cash their fat cheques while the manager gets sacked. That needs to change.

I completely understand that Jose isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. The best thing the club could do, however, is to stay the course and let him rebuild the team.

 

[Sunny Jim]

With the money spent he should be.

What fecking money?! You can question players he bought seriosuly 50 mil now is a price of a top full back.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Yep. And rightly so.
Look, I wanted Jose. I wanted him when SAF retired and I wanted him when he eventually turned up. I did have some reservations about whether he'd lost some of his luster/aura, but I still had confidence he would improve us a lot. And he has in some respects. However, since day one, I have been adamant that he looks miserable and doesn't seem to want to be at the club.

Remember the start of the season/pre-season? He was suited, booted, huge grin, he said something like "I'm buzzing....I'm on fire". He seemed like a much happier more content man who had finally gelled it all together to wage war on the league.

What's happened?! He's back to being a walking thunderstorm cloud again. The attitude is definitely seeping to the players. The vibe is one of dourness and uncertainty.

If he fails to get top 4 this season, sorry Jose, you've taken us as far as you can and we both need a change.

 

[deafepl]

I've seen some tweets from Twitter, they said that performance suggests Mourinho is losing the dressing room. Pogba spent the game walking around. Something fundamental is collapsing at United, it is a worrying considering we'd be becoming like Chelsea 2015/16 that our player isn't performing for him.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Which of the potential candidates would catch your eye then? Because I don't see anyone more likely to win us trophies than Jose.

Right now it's about building. Titles come when you have a solid base.

Jose won't win titles with United. He won't win European cups. I'm not satisfied with tin cups so.

I'm sick of Jose and his shite football, moaning and general negative shite.

I don't see him building the base we need and he can't get a performance out of our current squad. Let's be clear here too he has good players for the most part. His style and tactics are just abysmal.

I'd like to take Pochetinho or Silva. Good young managers with good ideas. Someone tgat will build.

Giving Jose more time and money will be just a waste of both. We have seen what he gives us and it's shite.

 

[Seij]

If we miss the CL qualification without any trophies, yes he definitely deserves to be sacked.

 

[2 man midfield]

Right now it's about building. Titles come when you have a solid base.

Which he's in the process of giving us. The fact people are upset we're not ahead of a City side who've won 19/20 league games shows that people seem to forget we're still building. I'd say we're just about where we should be.

Jose won't win titles with United. He won't win European cups. I'm not satisfied with tin cups so.

I'm confident he will if backed.

I'm sick of Jose and his shite football, moaning and general negative shite.

The football doesn't excite me, I'll admit. As I say, work in progress. His teams have been capable of it in the past.

I don't see him building the base we need and he can't get a performance out of our current squad. Let's be clear here too he has good players for the most part. His style and tactics are just abysmal.

The players clearly play far more for him than they did for Moyes or Van Gaal.

I'd like to take Pochetinho or Silva. Good young managers with good ideas. Someone tgat will build.

Poch would probably be my choice. Silva is clearly a promising coach, but he's had what, a year in the premier league? Let's see him take Watford somewhere decent, or actually win something with them before we talk about sacking Jose bloody Mourinho for him.

Giving Jose more time and money will be just a waste of both. We have seen what he gives us and it's shite.

I disagree. With time and money, he'll get us back up there.

 

[Hawks2008]

The precedent has been set already, if we finish 5th and don't win the champions league to secure qualification he'll be let go.

 

[Williams1960]

Right now it's about building. Titles come when you have a solid base.

Jose won't win titles with United. He won't win European cups. I'm not satisfied with tin cups so.

I'm sick of Jose and his shite football, moaning and general negative shite.

I don't see him building the base we need and he can't get a performance out of our current squad. Let's be clear here too he has good players for the most part. His style and tactics are just abysmal.

I'd like to take Pochetinho or Silva. Good young managers with good ideas. Someone tgat will build.

Giving Jose more time and money will be just a waste of both. We have seen what he gives us and it's shite.

I don't see us winning the league next year or the CL. People seem to think we are close to having a great team. I think we have a good squad but what we have is a manager stifling them.

Next year we will have so many getting closer to us and possibly overtaking us in terms of squad quality.

Arsenal will lose wenger and rebuild big. Liverpool are on fire. Spurs are looking better and better. Conte has shut his critics up.

What we need is a proper vision. A manager that like ferguson can get the best out of players along with the academy. We have always relied heavily on our home grown players and nurtured them. For that to continue, it takes a proper plan.

Do I want jose out now? No. But come this summer, we have to either back him with 150-200m or sack him. What do people really want? Do you trust him to get it right? Is this the style of football that will set us up nicely going forward? Will a new manager after jose do well with a squad that's being designed to play this kind of football without flair?

 

[Rajma]

Yep. And rightly so.
Look, I wanted Jose. I wanted him when SAF retired and I wanted him when he eventually turned up. I did have some reservations about whether he'd lost some of his luster/aura, but I still had confidence he would improve us a lot. And he has in some respects. However, since day one, I have been adamant that he looks miserable and doesn't seem to want to be at the club.

Remember the start of the season/pre-season? He was suited, booted, huge grin, he said something like "I'm buzzing....I'm on fire". He seemed like a much happier more content man who had finally gelled it all together to wage war on the league.

What's happened?! He's back to being a walking thunderstorm cloud again. The attitude is definitely seeping to the players. The vibe is one of dourness and uncertainty.

If he fails to get top 4 this season, sorry Jose, you've taken us as far as you can and we both need a change.

I was very same as you and above describes my sentiment nicely.

 

[Reiver]

He'd have to go under those circumstances. Given the amount of investment, he would have no excuse for not making enough progress to secure top 4. Although I'm sure he would have plenty of excuses ready

 

[Bwuk]

Yes and he should be.

 

[Mozza]

Yes, sacked of he finishes outside the top 4

 

[adexkola]

I'm glad that fans (I include myself in this bunch) don't run the club.

Personally, I think we would be foolish to sack Jose before his 3 years are up, barring a relegation battle.

There are 6 teams and 4 CL spots. Imagine if the unlucky 2 teams fired their managers every spring.

 

[Devil may care]

He should be, the football is dire and the team looks totally spiritless, the players don't look like they enjoy playing for him with his archaic tactics, if he can't make the top 4 then he's got to go, in truth I think we'd be better moving on even if we make top 4.

 

[Jim Beam]

If he finishes outside top 4, his position will be probably questionable by the board.

Don't think he will and people need to calm down a bit and back him. We're in a bad run, we'll recover.

 

[Jim Beam]

I'd like to take Pochetinho or Silva. Good young managers with good ideas. Someone tgat will build.

You don't want Silva. Playing nice football with Watford is great.

Playing that same nice football right to the full strengths of both City and United when you host them is a sign of big tactical weakness as a coach. Someone in the other thread also mentioned Eddie Howe. People need to get a grip.

 

[Williams1960]

You don't want Silva. Playing nice football with Watford is great.

Playing that same nice football right to the full strengths of both City and United when you host them is a sign of big tactical weakness as a coach. Someone in the other thread also mentioned Eddie Howe. People need to get a grip.

Is it a sign of weakness or a sign of progressive thinking? Watford are tenth with 25 points. They play really good football and the players are really taking to those methods. They finished 17th last year playing drab football.

Any time a smaller team tries to play football and loses its called 'bad tactics'. Yet how often do smaller teams lose by trying to defend with 10 men yet it's not labelled as bad tactics?

By the way, is it a 'sign of big tactical weakness as a coach' to turn up to vs Liverpool and city and play ten men behind the ball?

What about hoofing it long vs Burnley? Is that tactical genius?

Silva is an excellent coach and hopefully he gets a crack at a bigger club as he plays the kind of football better players would thrive in. If spurs lose poch, silva will be first on their list I think.

 

[Jim Beam]

Is it a sign of weakness or a sign of progressive thinking? Watford are tenth with 25 points. They play really good football and the players are really taking to those methods. They finished 17th last year playing drab football.

Any time a smaller team tries to play football and loses its called 'bad tactics'. Yet how often do smaller teams lose by trying to defend with 10 men yet it's not labelled as bad tactics?

By the way, is it a 'sign of big tactical weakness as a coach' to turn up to vs Liverpool and city and play ten men behind the ball?

What about hoofing it long vs Burnley? Is that tactical genius?

Silva is an excellent coach and hopefully he gets a crack at a bigger club as he plays the kind of football better players would thrive in. If spurs lose poch, silva will be first on their list I think.

For me, yes, it's a big sign a weakness if that particular tactic means that you'll certainly lose 3 points.

I rate Silva, like the way he plays, hope he has a decent career because of that. But, no, I don't think he should be in any conversation for United job.

 

[deafepl]

He should be, the football is dire and the team looks totally spiritless, the players don't look like they enjoy playing for him with his archaic tactics, if he can't make the top 4 then he's got to go, in truth I think we'd be better moving on even if we make top 4.

There's plenty of people said in twitter that these player look like they don't enjoy and not performing for him. They all think he lost a dressing room and is repeating of Chelsea 2015-16 again at United

 

[Jim Beam]

There's plenty of people said in twitter that these player look like they don't enjoy and not performing for him. They all think he lost a dressing room and is repeating of Chelsea 2015-16 again at United

Unfortunately, that's it. I mean, if Twitter says so...

 

[Devil may care]

There's plenty of people said in twitter that these player look like they don't enjoy and not performing for him. They all think he lost a dressing room and is repeating of Chelsea 2015-16 again at United

Yeah, it feels like more than a dip in form, the flatness is reminiscent of LvG's second season where by the end the players only seemed to try in the FA cup games.