dwd
Saturday Night Spies
Where’s @TheReligion? Thought he would all over this.
Yes, it also shows how weak the standard of the position is world wide. The requirements have changed because of how attacking players have changed but as a generation, when it is compared to the 90's or 00's the position is in a terrible state. Interestingly so is the standard of strikers, discussion there about what caused it(wide forward being the new key role for me)They broke the world record for a defender on a player who has played for Groningen, Celtic in the Scottish league, a mid-table PL club and for a second rate national team. It’s simply laughable.
The general worldwide level has decreased like you said. Can the "world class" tag be applied with us using previous standards or do we need to lower expectations ?Yes, it also shows how weak the standard of the position is world wide. The requirements have changed because of how attacking players have changed but as a generation, when it is compared to the 90's or 00's the position is in a terrible state. Interestingly so is the standard of strikers, discussion there about what caused it(wide forward being the new key role for me)
I am not certain there is a genuine world class CB in the PL. Jones with a stable body would be there for me but outside of him? Alderweireld and Vertonghen always get mentioned as if they were an elite pairing, don't see it from either one.
Yeah, I don't know where the hype comes from. He obviously looks a good player but you'd think he'd single-handedly made Southampton rock solid defensively.I think he's a good player but genuinely Phil Jones is better. For the price Liverpool paid for him, that's just not good enough.
Fair play to him. Normally it takes a new signing a while to adapt to his new side but Van Dijk has settled in to the Liverpool defensive system straight away.
A fair point, I suppose it has to shift with the contemporary standard. Makes cross era comparisons a pain.The general worldwide level has decreased like you said. Can the "world class" tag be applied with us using previous standards or do we need to lower expectations ?
Oh I'm here.Where’s @TheReligion? Thought he would all over this.
Fair play to him. Normally it takes a new signing a while to adapt to his new side but Van Dijk has settled in to the Liverpool defensive system straight away.
Not for meI think he's a good player but genuinely Phil Jones is better. For the price Liverpool paid for him, that's just not good enough.
Not to mention they were forced to apologize to Southampton FC.They broke the world record for a defender on a player who has played for Groningen, Celtic in the Scottish league, a mid-table PL club and for a second rate national team. It’s simply laughable.
He’s awful positionally and is a criminal ball watcher.He doesn't read the game very well for a £75m defender.
Always thought you could tell a top defender because they are always already where they need to be. Whether they're the type to defend aggressively or by sitting off and readinng them game, you don't see them getting caught in no man's land or arriving on the scene at the last minute to try and make a llast ditch save of some kind.
VVD makes poor decisions about when to go for the ball. He's often in completely the wrong place on the pitch or seems unaware of where opposition players are. I mean, there are very few if any top level CBs in the PL these days. They are nearly all guilty of doing these things...but he's definitely no exception.
Even if he did cut it out it would only help Liverpool so much as it's the midfield that leaves the team so exposed and poor organisation from every player at set pieces. You can only solve so much by bying better defenders. Liverpool's style of play relies oon dominating the game to the point the other team can't mmount effective attacks. THere is no real plan for actual defending...problem is ullike City, they aren't good enough to pull this kind of thing off. Moments or spells arrive in games where defening is necessary.
It's not like he's come over from another league. He needs time to settle with his team mates but that won't help him with errors in his own game. I can't remember ever being wowed by him at Southampton either. He seemed to magically become a good player when it was known Liverpool wanted to sign him. That's not usually a good sign in itself. For the money paid you'd expect an established top class player. Not someone a few people have dubiously decided played well for Southampton a few times.A lot of knee jerk reactions after a couple of games. He’s a class player but i’m sure it will take him time to settle
Fair play to him. Normally it takes a new signing a while to adapt to his new side but Van Dijk has settled in to the Liverpool defensive system straight away.
This is a great point. Are there genuinely any world class defenders left in the mode of Ferdinand, vidic, terry, Nesta, Cannavaro, puyol etc? Every defender is so far off that group imo that we have to accept VVD may be near the top of the current list.The general worldwide level has decreased like you said. Can the "world class" tag be applied with us using previous standards or do we need to lower expectations ?
I think it has more to do with the football being more attacking and faster, in addition to attackers being protected more, rather than defenders being worse.The general worldwide level has decreased like you said. Can the "world class" tag be applied with us using previous standards or do we need to lower expectations ?
It's part that, part coaching at youth level got much much worse for the positionI think it has more to do with the football being more attacking and faster, in addition to attackers being protected more, rather than defenders being worse.
Rio had a poor start for us despite being a top defender in the league for some time. It can happen. Problem is with the system rather than him. Just because he will replace Lovern and as a result remove some of the individual defensive mistakes from Liverpool's game, he will improve their defence. But overall as long as Klopp is there, it is unlikely that Liverpool will ever be a defensively solid team.It's not like he's come over from another league. He needs time to settle with his team mates but that won't help him with errors in his own game. I can't remember ever being wowed by him at Southampton either. He seemed to magically become a good player when it was known Liverpool wanted to sign him. That's not usually a good sign in itself. For the money paid you'd expect an established top class player. Not someone a few people have dubiously decided played well for Southampton a few times.
Maybe but surel the current "top" CBs are more clueless and less specialized in the art of defending as in 10 years ago for instanceI think it has more to do with the football being more attacking and faster, in addition to attackers being protected more, rather than defenders being worse.
I think that great defenders of the past would look equally clueless in the era of superteams, attacking fast football and the referees who are happy to give fouls/penalties at any contact.Maybe but surel the current "top" CBs are more clueless and less specialized in the art of defending as in 10 years ago for instance
Nah I cannot agree. Vida/Rio/Terry/Nesta/Puyol etc etc.. haven't retired that long ago anyway for football to have evolved this much. There is a clear lack of top quality specialist in the current era.I think that great defenders of the past would look equally clueless in the era of superteams, attacking fast football and the referees who are happy to give fouls/penalties at any contact.
He's taken to LFC style defending like a duck takes to waterFair play to him. Normally it takes a new signing a while to adapt to his new side but Van Dijk has settled in to the Liverpool defensive system straight away.
I'm sure he's better than what they had but there could be a bit of that. Was definitely the case with Vermaelen who i was always skeptical of.He’s not a player I’ve watched a lot so I could be way off on this but I feel a lot of his reputation has been built off the back of scoring a few goals. Similar to how everybody thought Vermaelen was great when he first went to Arsenal because he scored goals.
I wonder if the transfer market will regress a bit. Sure a superstar like Neymar makes sense but not clubs risking 75m on players that would have gone for 30m a couple of seasons ago. Maybe the superstars are worth a higher premium but the rest are still not worth such exhorbitant outlays. For 75m you should be getting one of the best tried and tested defenders in the world not VVD. Owners must wake up at some point and pull the plug.It's not like he's come over from another league. He needs time to settle with his team mates but that won't help him with errors in his own game. I can't remember ever being wowed by him at Southampton either. He seemed to magically become a good player when it was known Liverpool wanted to sign him. That's not usually a good sign in itself. For the money paid you'd expect an established top class player. Not someone a few people have dubiously decided played well for Southampton a few times.
Bonucci is wank in all fairness.He cost more than Bonucci!