Why do people think Pogba doesn't run much?

[ROFLUTION]

Never heard of people thinking he doesn't run much.

 

[Brwned]

Never heard of people thinking he doesn't run much.

Did you read the quote in the OP? If not, you learn something new every day.

"Pogba only stroll around when we didn't have the ball nowadays & that's unacceptable"

The issue is not that Pogba doesn't run much or cover a lot of ground. Pogba is a freakish athlete and could run all day. He clearly has the athleticism to play any role in midfield. The issue with Pogba is when he doesn't track runners because he couldn't be arsed.

Toure is a fantastic example. He successfully played the Busquets role for Barca pre-Busquets, he was excellent in a midfield 2 next to a more defensive partner like Barry, De Jong, Fernandinho etc and also excelled at number 10 when played there for City. Nobody slated the manager for playing him in a variety of midfield positions because "he cannot play there".

When he played in those various roles, he adapted his game an did a great job for the team. He ended up playing a lot at number 10 because he was incredibly productive in attacking areas and earned his spot there.

So Yaya Toure, football mercenary at loads'a'money Man City, who had a massive sulk over not being given a birthday cake was happy to check his ego at the door and do a job for the team in a multitude of midfield roles. Paul Pogba, talisman and future captain of Manchester United, one of the biggest clubs in world football has a sulk because the manager won't play him in a specific role in a specific formation every week.

The manager was slated regularly for playing a lazy bugger in centre mid who regularly got bypassed in midfield. That's what the article in the OP is about. It centres on Pellegrini's response to the criticism, and the truth behind it. So your entire argument is founded on a false recollection and is supported by tabloid gossip and hyperbole. Which is the whole point of this thread, really. Why is there so much of it when the evidence against his laziness is there in numbers, and the evidence for his attitude problems is there in tabloid gossip.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Even when he was with United's youth team I read someone say about Pogba that people are going to expect him to be like Vieira or Yaya when he does not really play like either of them.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

I agree with the points @Brwned has made in the OP but I, for one, am sick and tired of the incessant Pogba discussion/criticism in the media (and discussion boards) this past month. No other player gets scrutinised to the nth like Pogba. No other player is criticised so incessantly for their playing style as he is. No other player has their great performances chalked off with such remarkable ease ("He cost £90m, you expect to see that.")

It really is grating at this point. The player himself - like most players - must be well aware of it too (look at Lukaku's Instagram post yesterday re: 'haters'). We're going through a poor run of performances of late yet Pogba seems to be the one carrying the can for all that. It's absolutely preposterous.

Is it not more the case that people are going on and on and on about Pogba not being used correctly, and that results in analysis of his performances?

I’ve been absolutely sick of that for a while. It’s clearly become perceived wisdom, and people making throwaway statements that Pogba can’t play in a two; 4-2-3-1 is the problem; who do we buy to make Pogba good?

It’s non-stop.

 

[Fortitude]

The snapshot of Pogba is not so much about his running or languid style, but rather, what he actually does when he gets to the point he must contribute on the defensive end - he often then looks completely befuddled and aimless. It's also the point where he can be seen sort of standing around not knowing what to do with himself or where he's supposed to go. Those that have it in for the player are triggered at this point.

Combine this with a languid style of running and a false picture of the player's output is easily formed. If Pogba was decisive on the defensive end, there would be no criticism of his running, imo.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Even when he was with United's youth team I read someone say about Pogba that people are going to expect him to be like Vieira or Yaya when he does not really play like either of them.

Inclined to agree. Pogba's overall playstyle and boons, what he brings to the team are clearly different than that of Viera and Yaya.

 

[MadDogg]

They were more solid when Toure played in a midfield three, but Toure played the majority of his games in a title winning season in a midfield two. Just look at the last four games of the season in 11/12, crunch time in the season when they won the league on goal difference. Pellegrini played the exact same lineup against QPR, Newcastle, United and Wolves.

Hart
Zabaleta Kompany Lescott Clichy
Barry Toure
Silva Tevez Nasri
Aguero

Was he exposed at times? Certainly. But I think people have rewritten history about where he played and how he was accommodated. In some seasons he played mostly in the advanced role, in others he played mostly in centre mid. In both cases there were issues. Toure's most memorable season happened to be when he scored loads of worldies when playing behind the forward, but in 11/12 he was one of the best players in the league in a very traditional central midfield role. Barry had to do more dirty work than he would have liked and the defence was more exposed than when De Jong was in there alongside him, but Toure dictated the play against many teams and showed he could play there to a very high level.

It's not like the entire team was built around him, or the players that he was exposing were outrageously good. He was playing in front of Joleon Lescott and beside Gareth Barry.

The reality is that you can be a midfielder who is much more purposeful running forwards than backwards, and still function as a centre mid in a less than exceptional team. Toure proved that. You just have to be aware of the issues that it brings with it. There are lots of potential upsides to it. Being able to squeeze in Silva, Tevez, Aguero and Nasri was what allowed them to play the kind of free flowing football that saw them score more goals than the highest scoring United side this century, which ultimately played a pivotal role in them winning the league. With Martial, Sanchez, Lukaku and Mata/Rashford/Lingard, the potential upsides are there for us too.

True. I guess I was thinking more the Toure of the last few years, when he definitely left them much more exposed when they attempted to play him in the 'two'. Earlier on at City he could do it better, and obviously back in his Barca days that's where he made his name.

That is the thing. Pogba 'could' play in one of the deeper roles in a 4231. Hell, that's where he's mostly played for us and he's mostly done well, so he obviously can. Perhaps if he were surrounded with a team who can hold and move the ball better, it could actually be his long-term role. He'd have to change part of his mentality though, to be more comfortable sitting a bit deeper. Certainly not as a defensive midfielder like some in here claim, but he'd have to focus more on it than he currently does. Whether he'd ever be able to reach his full potential there is another story.

Then it becomes a balancing act for us. Do we continue playing more of a 4231 and hope he steps up further in that role? It's possible. Or do we look at settling more into a 433 which, in theory at least, should let him achieve his best? Which is better for the team as a whole? Personally I feel the latter is better for now, although maybe later on in his career he might drop a bit deeper and we can look into the former again.

 

[POF]

Did you read the quote in the OP? If not, you learn something new every day.

"Pogba only stroll around when we didn't have the ball nowadays & that's unacceptable"



The manager was slated regularly for playing a lazy bugger in centre mid who regularly got bypassed in midfield. That's what the article in the OP is about. It centres on Pellegrini's response to the criticism, and the truth behind it. So your entire argument is founded on a false recollection and is supported by tabloid gossip and hyperbole. Which is the whole point of this thread, really. Why is there so much of it when the evidence against his laziness is there in numbers, and the evidence for his attitude problems is there in tabloid gossip.

From what I am reading in your OP and what I recall at the time, it is Toure being criticised for being a lazy bugger not Pellegrini for where he is playing him. At United, Jose is bring criticised for expecting Pogba to play there.

As I said, I don't think laziness has anything to do with it. Both clearly have/had the physical prowess to play the central midfield role. The difference is that Toure (who was constantly slated for being a mercenary and a baby for the birthday cake incident) dealt with being asked to play a different role in a far more mature and professional manner than United's captain elect. That is a huge worry.

 

[MadDogg]

As I said, I don't think laziness has anything to do with it. Both clearly have/had the physical prowess to play the central midfield role. The difference is that Toure (who was constantly slated for being a mercenary and a baby for the birthday cake incident) dealt with being asked to play a different role in a far more mature and professional manner than United's captain elect. That is a huge worry.

To be fair, Toure had a lot more experience at playing deeper. He played there for Barca as the most defensive of the midfielders. Yes he transitioned his game to a more attacking one after he went to City and didn't particularly like going back again, but when he was asked to he had plenty of experience to fall back on. Pogba has never played that role, and what we are asking him to do now is the most defensive he's really been asked to do in his career.

 

[POF]

To be fair, Toure had a lot more experience at playing deeper. He played there for Barca as the most defensive of the midfielders. Yes he transitioned his game to a more attacking one after he went to City and didn't particularly like going back again, but when he was asked to he had plenty of experience to fall back on. Pogba has never played that role, and what we are asking him to do now is the most defensive he's really been asked to do in his career.

I would agree with you if I thought the issue was his ability to play the role rather than his effort.

The ironic thing about all of this is that Pogba (in my opinion) has far more natural talent to play as an orthodox central midfield player than this "8 to the left" role.

 

[SwSw]

The amount of distance covered is irrelevant from a defensive standpoint.

The problem here is that Pogba's defensive awareness isn't there. Many times when Matic gets sucked out to the flanks to help out, the entire center area is empty. Then, midfield runners just gladly runs into that acre of space and threatens our goal. Newcastle have scored from this once (home game) and almost scored via Jonjo S for the away game.

 

[Mailo]

During our attacking phase? He runs a lot, long distance sprinting, big distance covered.
During our defending phase? Not so much, hence the issue.

When we need to play him as CDM (for tactical reasons or because our other midfielders are off form/injured), he doesn't cover enough distance and effort to drop back when defending i.e. when our team doesn't have the ball. Especially against top teams where this is vital, it can be costly. Did fine actually, when up against small teams.

Running style is fine.

This is my thought as well.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

The responses to this are hilarious. No one wants him to run like a maniac. It's just his utter lack of tactical sense. You watch Iniesta for Barcelona and it's the exact opposite. He makes runs, plays little one twos and works so bloody hard for the team when they aren't in possession. Pogba is the exact opposite.

Here's Damien Duff pointing out something obvious:

Tweet

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This is it perfectly illustrated and described.

 

[cyril C]

Because of his height and pace people often expect to be an all action box to box midfielder like Vieira or have the powerful running and goals of someone like Yaya and Pogba is neither.

If Pogba is not an all action box2box MF, then what is he?

 

[jojojo]

The frustration with Pogba comes from the fact that he is so good. He's good on the ball, he can play good passes, he's an athlete. It's when you watch the total package that it's so frustrating.

Like the times when the good on the ball converts into hangs onto it for too long or he fails to react to a developing situation, particularly defensively. Not laziness as such, but what looks like a loss of focus or concentration, a failure to read the game in the way a great player can.

I get that players have to be used well, and that it's important that your best players get used in a way that they can deliver their best. But right now, what I see is an out of form player, not a misused one.

I don't see a lack of running, I do see a player who reacts late and fails to respond to the game. In other words a player you can't really rely on in a tight game and one who isn't playing well enough to help us turn a tight game into one that we can actually control.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

If Pogba is not an all action box2box MF, then what is he?

Hybrid, Attacking midfielder + Passer + Playmaker.

He's a very different type, and certainly could become and evolve his game to a lot more dynamic and all-action kind of midfielder, which Mourinho is working on it, playing next to Matic and have some defensive responsibility in 4-2-3-1 is a start (not every game, some game 4-3-3), he admitted Pogba can improve. It's time Pogba realise this, 24 years old already.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

The responses to this are hilarious. No one wants him to run like a maniac. It's just his utter lack of tactical sense. You watch Iniesta for Barcelona and it's the exact opposite. He makes runs, plays little one twos and works so bloody hard for the team when they aren't in possession. Pogba is the exact opposite.

Here's Damien Duff pointing out something obvious:

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— Twitter API (@user) date

Harsh by Duff, but critical and true. Glad they include his times with Juventus.

Pogba doesn't have that tactical sense yet. Well, I'm hoping he can improve this, just needs more concentration maybe.

 

[Thisistheone]

The responses to this are hilarious. No one wants him to run like a maniac. It's just his utter lack of tactical sense. You watch Iniesta for Barcelona and it's the exact opposite. He makes runs, plays little one twos and works so bloody hard for the team when they aren't in possession. Pogba is the exact opposite.

Here's Damien Duff pointing out something obvious:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Makes him out to be our weak link in midfield.

He's got lots to improve on no doubt and can be guily of ball watching and not 'smelling danger' as Duff said. But he's also by far our best midfielder going forward.

You could imagine Roy Keane spending 90 minutes just screaming at him. Maybe Pogba needs a leader on the pitch to help him.

 

[kouroux]

You'd never get the feeling watching Vieira or Dembele, pretty sure about that.

Never with any of them. Specially Dembelé

 

[Leftback99]

The problem isnt running it's postioning.

One of the first things you learn as a kid playing football is get 'behind' the ball when defending. Pogba gets caught ahead of the ball chasing back rather than being aware and busting a gut to get back in position behind the ball before the play builds up.

Distance ran is the same, the effectiveness of already being stood in position to go past, rather than chasing a player back in an open space massively different.

He's been the same defensively since the youth team so I can't see it changing. He's doesn't have the awareness.

 

[kundalini]

Pogba CL 10.7 km per 90 mins

Matic CL 11.5 km per 90 mins

McTominay CL 11.5 km per 90 mins

Herrera CL 11.6 km per 90 mins

Fellaini CL 11.0 km per 90 mins

 

[Bobski]

Toure is an interesting one. Brilliant footballer but also one of the reasons why those City teams never made an impact in Europe. Unstoppable when on a burst but it cost him, a couple of hard runs and he would be at walking pace for the next few minutes, meaning he was easily picked off defensively. Him in a 2 always made City vulnerable but he was more of a goal threat coming from deep with momentum than starting further up where giving him a central role would force the brains of the team, Silva, into wide areas where he was less effective.

A lot of the same problems Utd have with Pogba even though they do play in slightly different ways. I think if Mourinho believed that Pogba could match the goal output of Gerrard/Lampard he would happily go to a 3 man midfield with Pogba in that Lampard at Chelsea role. Lukaku does not have the hold up play of Drogba though, which is part of the equation, the striker in that system has to be a better all round player than Lukaku.

 

[Raees]

The responses to this are hilarious. No one wants him to run like a maniac. It's just his utter lack of tactical sense. You watch Iniesta for Barcelona and it's the exact opposite. He makes runs, plays little one twos and works so bloody hard for the team when they aren't in possession. Pogba is the exact opposite.

Here's Damien Duff pointing out something obvious:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

That is excellent analysis there by Duff. Wouldn't mind seeing more of him as a pundit.. is he a regular on the Irish circuit?

 

[Irrational.]

The responses to this are hilarious. No one wants him to run like a maniac. It's just his utter lack of tactical sense. You watch Iniesta for Barcelona and it's the exact opposite. He makes runs, plays little one twos and works so bloody hard for the team when they aren't in possession. Pogba is the exact opposite.

Here's Damien Duff pointing out something obvious:

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— Twitter API (@user) date

Absolutely spot on analysis.

My problem with Pogba is that he thinks he's better than he actually is. He's definitely talented enough but lacks the desire and application to make it happen. He doesn't make the top 5 CMs in the world for me, which considering the price we paid (a world record fee at the time), is hugely disappointing.

 

[worldinmotion66]

From all we have seen from Pogba in his career why would you want him as a holding midfielder?

I think he could have been an incredible holding midfielder given his physical and technical abilities, but he will never be one as he doesn't have (and I don't think will ever have) the discipline or defensive instincts. I would personally give him a lot more freedom in a much more fluid system, with the entire team pushed forward a further 30+ yards, but under Mourinho he will predominantly play much deeper in a two. It's clear that he was bought for this role and it's clear that Mourinho is now struggling with the player.

Understandable, but off form recent games, like all our attackers, hit-and-miss forms.

No need to be holding midfielder, not his kind of game.

Totally different player to Carrick. Only few similarity: Wide passing range, passing accuracy and driving forward passes.

I didn't compare him to Carrick (or at least didn't mean to), only think that he could have been a like for like replacement in the team in terms of position, if he had the discipline and defensive instincts.

He's nothing like Carrick, if he only goes on to become a Carrick type-quality player we have badly wasted him. The rewrite of history on Carrick is bizarre, are we saying Carrick never had bad games ? Was a defensive beast ? He crumbled in many big games when teams put pressure on him. He mostly played a role in a successful team but was never the catalyst. He had poor seasons never mind games. But yeah Pogba should aspire to his level

You are a numpty. I listed the abilities that he has that Carrick doesn't, so how have I ever said that he could only reach Carrick's level? The only comparison I made was in terms of playing position. I think Pogba should be able to hold the midfield with positional discipline, using his physical and technical abilities, and should be able to dictate the whole game. The fact that he can't is more a sleight on his mental aptitude than anything else.

 

[Brwned]

Toure is an interesting one. Brilliant footballer but also one of the reasons why those City teams never made an impact in Europe. Unstoppable when on a burst but it cost him, a couple of hard runs and he would be at walking pace for the next few minutes, meaning he was easily picked off defensively. Him in a 2 always made City vulnerable but he was more of a goal threat coming from deep with momentum than starting further up where giving him a central role would force the brains of the team, Silva, into wide areas where he was less effective.

A lot of the same problems Utd have with Pogba even though they do play in slightly different ways. I think if Mourinho believed that Pogba could match the goal output of Gerrard/Lampard he would happily go to a 3 man midfield with Pogba in that Lampard at Chelsea role. Lukaku does not have the hold up play of Drogba though, which is part of the equation, the striker in that system has to be a better all round player than Lukaku.

Agree with you on that. Toure was a huge problem in Europe and Pogba presents many of the same problems for us. Over time I think it became quite evident that Toure in a midfield two in Europe was just an impossible task, and Pogba may well be the same. They are similarly lackadaisical when it comes to sensing danger and I don't think that's something you can teach a player. Then again, Toure was taught to play a more defensive role at Barcelona and accepted it when he had Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and co. taking centre stage. It's possible the same may be true for Pogba.

The reality is that he is our best player, much like Toure was at City, and he shouldn't have to sacrifice himself for others. It is the likes of Herrera, McTominay, Lingard that suit that role for all sorts of reasons. If we surround Pogba with the likes of Verratti, Sánchez and (hopefully a world class) Martial, then he might be somehow inspired to work that bit harder and more selflessly. But when you're playing beside lots of players that are better at running than passing, it's a lot easier to focus on your own strengths.

Also agree that it's his goalscoring that holds him back from being an ideal player in the advanced midfield role for Mourinho. It's hard to know where he'll end up with that. A lot of the time he just looks like a really, really awful finisher but he gets so many opportunities that it's not unthinkable he'll suddenly find his goalscoring boots in the same way Toure did at age 30 in 13-14. Hopefully Pogba finds them a bit sooner!

 

[Skills]

If you have a poor manager he can make any player look shite. Don't think this was ever a concern raised about Pogba when he was playing for Conte and Allegri at Juventus.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

The issue is not that Pogba doesn't run much or cover a lot of ground. Pogba is a freakish athlete and could run all day. He clearly has the athleticism to play any role in midfield. The issue with Pogba is when he doesn't track runners because he couldn't be arsed.

Toure is a fantastic example. He successfully played the Busquets role for Barca pre-Busquets, he was excellent in a midfield 2 next to a more defensive partner like Barry, De Jong, Fernandinho etc and also excelled at number 10 when played there for City. Nobody slated the manager for playing him in a variety of midfield positions because "he cannot play there".

When he played in those various roles, he adapted his game an did a great job for the team. He ended up playing a lot at number 10 because he was incredibly productive in attacking areas and earned his spot there.

So Yaya Toure, football mercenary at loads'a'money Man City, who had a massive sulk over not being given a birthday cake was happy to check his ego at the door and do a job for the team in a multitude of midfield roles. Paul Pogba, talisman and future captain of Manchester United, one of the biggest clubs in world football has a sulk because the manager won't play him in a specific role in a specific formation every week.

To be fair to Pogba, he hasn't sulked about his positioning. That's all been speculation. No real quotes that I'm aware of. If anything, it's been us, the fans, who have been sulking over Pogba's misused abilities and being played out of position. As for Toure, he has taken a lot of slack over the years when he was playing as a DM. Especially in his later years when there were several times when he "couldn't be bothered" to get back in position when possession was last. It was actually very much like Pogba now...

 

[Hitchez]

People seem to often associate (wrongly so in my opinion) form with attitude. If you're not playing every little thing you do gets scrutinized, disseminated and discussed by thousands of people on the internet. An explanation that a player might simply be out of form is not enough. His attitude, the system he's playing in, his relationship with the manager, his hair cut etc.. must all be questioned at great length. And if you dislike the player and/or you love the manager, you just conclude that he's a lazy cnut.

 

[redflair]

What's running got to do being average on the ball?

Make better passes, better decisions, don't ball hog and so on - and then you might have to run a bit less.

Not much less in a Mourinho team - but still enough to conserve enough energy for the business end of the pitch.

 

[NoLogo]

The responses to this are hilarious. No one wants him to run like a maniac. It's just his utter lack of tactical sense. You watch Iniesta for Barcelona and it's the exact opposite. He makes runs, plays little one twos and works so bloody hard for the team when they aren't in possession. Pogba is the exact opposite.

Here's Damien Duff pointing out something obvious:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Can't add much to this really. My main gripe so far is also that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. Like he has the odd game where he seems to get everything right is fully aware of his surroundings and then goes this is completely gone for the next couple of games and all the weakness described in the video are back in full display.

Although in his defensive it doesn't really help him atm that Mou constantly wants him to play a role he isn't good at playing.

 

[diplomat]

The whole team doesn't run enough, which is proven by statistics so it should be on Mourinho. Either our conditioning and fitness levels are appalling or it's the tactics, but either way the lack of intensity is seriously infuriating.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Because most people are clueless

 

[poleglass red]

To be fair, Toure had a lot more experience at playing deeper. He played there for Barca as the most defensive of the midfielders. Yes he transitioned his game to a more attacking one after he went to City and didn't particularly like going back again, but when he was asked to he had plenty of experience to fall back on. Pogba has never played that role, and what we are asking him to do now is the most defensive he's really been asked to do in his career.

Nah. Pogba played the deeper role for France in the euros when they got to the final.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

If Pogba is not an all action box2box MF, then what is he?

He is a roaming playmaker. Not a perfect comparison but, he is a lot like Clarence Seedorf.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Very interesting thread. Pogba, as you said, is very similar to Yaya, both on and off the ball.

I guess, as stats have shown for Toure, it's not that Pogba doesn't run much, it's more to do with the intensity in which he runs at. He almost ambles, at times, which can be frustrating to watch.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

He is a roaming playmaker. Not a perfect comparison but, he is a lot like Clarence Seedorf.

Hamsik, Iniesta, Pastore, etc

 

[Andeva]

i dont care whether he runs or not. we dont pay him to run. we pay him for his overall play and final product.

I know it's been a while since his first stay at the club, but he said something similar himself to SAF. When he was told to spend more time at the gym, he replied he was a footballer not an athlete. Imagine saying something like that as a seventeen-year-old to one of the greates managers of all time. I don't know if it's the sign of good confidence and superstar arrogance, or just attitudeproblems.

Anyway, when I watch games and not statistics, he seems to win the ball a fair amount. That's often hard to do if you are standing still.

 

[breakout67]

Pogba runs a lot, just not that much when the team are defending. A large reason why Pogba covers a lot of distance is because he is always the first to support the attack so he runs the length of the pitch several times in the game. Pogba's work rate is top class; he's just not that type of player to run the game by himself like a Roy Keane.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I know it's been a while since his first stay at the club, but he said something similar himself to SAF. When he was told to spend more time at the gym, he replied he was a footballer not an athlete. Imagine saying something like that as a seventeen-year-old to one of the greates managers of all time. I don't know if it's the sign of good confidence and superstar arrogance, or just attitudeproblems.

Anyway, when I watch games and not statistics, he seems to win the ball a fair amount. That's often hard to do if you are standing still.

Well he seems he lies the weight room now. Didn't they blame his injury early in the season on overtraining?