Why do people think Pogba doesn't run much?

[Camilo]

I think there's a definite laziness to the way he gets back into position. He may well cover ground, but he often seems to be slightly out of position when we're without the ball.

 

[Andeva]

Well he seems he lies the weight room now. Didn't they blame his injury early in the season on overtraining?

Sure, he may lift now, that's not the real issue. The fact he stood up to the manager may be a bigger concerne. Infact, I think he defied his manager once more in that instance by continuing his intense workoutsessions after being told to ease down.

 

[Valar Morghulis]

Pogba runs loads, so unfair.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

Nobody else thinks the heat from Mourinho is because he couldn't be arsed to go up for the header that ended up being the assist on Newcastle's goal?

 

[hobbers]

Same reason they dont think Ozil runs much, languid style.

Although to be fair Pogba has often been guilty of prancing around/jogging back when really he should be busting a gut.

 

[Williams1960]

It doesn't seem to stack up very well with the figures that I've come across, nor with my own subjective impression when watching games. Which makes this kind of attitude kind of puzzling to me...


At best, what many people are saying is to let him play like Zidane or Yaya Toure, not to have Messi-like* freedom in midfield.

Toure would be in many people's lists for one of the best midfielders in PL history, at his peak. As far as I can see the conversation people are having about Pogba now is almost exactly the same as the one about Toure a few years ago, other than the fact Pogba's about 5 years younger and has immaturity added on top. Thankfully he also has more talent, and hopefully he's more receptive to coaching.

The below article is a really good summary on some of the facts about Toure's running - it paints a much more nuanced picture of the story than many of us really consider. Some of the figures are surprising, some illuminating, and ultimately what it shows is there are pros and cons to the approach and it depends on the manager to decide how to weigh the up. The similarities to Pogba are very apparent.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...s-and-the-truth-behind-his-man-city-work-rate


I don't know where you can find distance covered stats for the whole season, but here's his distance covered stats in the UCL. It works out at about 10.7km per 90 mins, which is more than Toure in 15/16 (10.4km) and in between the likes of Fernandinho (10.9km) and Casemiro (10.5km) this season. I think that seems like a fair reflection of their average distance covered in all games, rather than that sample. It'd be interesting to see the sprint figures to add more nuance to the story in the way it did for Toure in the above. I think Pogba's probably not doing so bad on that front either.

If you look here, de Bruyne is covering about 12km per 90 mins, so there's no question that attacking players can contribute more as individuals (which based on the above statistics, has always been one of de Bruyne's strengths) and systems and managers can get that bit more out of players (which is evidently one of Guardiola's strengths).

I think it's reasonable to expect Pogba and Mourinho to improve on the latter. The way we're currently set up simply doesn't demand players to cover the kind of ground Guardiola teams do. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Pogba to improve on the former. Some players just aren't built that way. The idea that Pogba is the only player that has ever been afforded the luxury of running less than their midfield partners is absolutely ludicrous.

*For the record, Messi runs about 8km per game these days. The intensity of their running is very different, but it's worth establishing just how wide that range of distance covered is. 8km for Messi, 12km for de Bruyne - I'd imagine they're at the upper and lower limits. Pogba is much closer to the upper limit.

Thoughts?

Yaya toure the best pl midfielder!?

Viera and Gerrard are well ahead of him. Toure had so many off games.

In terms of pogba, it's a bit like toure. I remember Gary neville I think was talking about toure saying 'he just goes through the motions'. Which was so true. Always jogging up and down the pitch but not actively covering space or a player. Not pressing anyone.

Pogba is similar. No idea about space or who to mark. Hes always on the move but often his running is useless.

Look at Roy Keane for example. He would mark an area / zone. Look at danger, close opposition, watch runners etc. That's hard work.

Just running up and down the pitch for a very athletic player isn't good enough. It's a lazy way of playing even though he may be running a fair amount as he's just going through the motions of being either in defence or attack.

Like the other day when he did not even attempt the header vs Newcastle. How often will he do that? Be near a guy but not make a tackle? Not hound a player down but just jog along with him. Its infuriating to watch.

 

[POF]

To be fair to Pogba, he hasn't sulked about his positioning. That's all been speculation. No real quotes that I'm aware of. If anything, it's been us, the fans, who have been sulking over Pogba's misused abilities and being played out of position. As for Toure, he has taken a lot of slack over the years when he was playing as a DM. Especially in his later years when there were several times when he "couldn't be bothered" to get back in position when possession was last. It was actually very much like Pogba now...

It is speculation and you will very rarely have a player come out in public and say they should only play a specific position in a specific formation. But there are definite signs that Pogba shares that belief.

On a Sky Sports interview after the Everton game, Pogba clearly said he prefers that position (which has fueled the tiresome debate), Jose has commented on the team adapting to his (Pogba's) profile and went to massive lengths in press conferences to explain that Pogba was playing "left of the 3 in a 4-3-3".

Often, media stories are driven by players or agents feeding information and fans opinions are often (more often than most like to admit) driven by the media.

There are parallels to the "Rooney sacrificing himself for Ronaldo" by being "shunted out wide" rubbish that was rife in the media during that era. Rooney played up front almost all season and only in big Champions League games or games against title rivals did Fergie push Rooney wide and play Ronaldo up front and it was clearly the right move for the team.

I initially thought it was media nonsense and within the club the players would all be on the same page. But then came "I need to be more selfish and demand to play up front" and it was obvious where it all came from. Pogba's performance at Spurs was that moment for me.

United's success under Fergie was built on every player striving for success. The team was more important than the ego of any player. Rooney was the first United player to blatantly show such contempt for the manager in public. I lost all respect for him after that.

This Pogba thing has completely derailed the season at a time when there was real positivity around the club. A player who looked to be developing as a future captain has shown he is too selfish to be a leader.

The big worry is that this again shows a complete lack of leadership and togetherness in the group. It's something that ebbed away a bit towards the end of the Fergie era and after a couple of months of Moyes was completely gone. I had hoped Jose could bring that back but it looks like he's fighting a losing battle.

 

[whatwha]

Because he jogs casually some of the time and sometimes doesn't seem to care about getting in position when we need to win the ball back. This adds in to the impression that he's immature and selfish. It's not a huge deal but it's his own fault.

 

[LoCalXT]

Tall people generally have to move faster or they seem lazy.
I remember fresh out of school that's the advice my mentor gave me.
Pogba's case however is more to do with his positioning, because it's so poor he always seems to be playing catch up.

 

[Brwned]

Yaya toure the best pl midfielder!?

Viera and Gerrard are well ahead of him. Toure had so many off games.

In terms of pogba, it's a bit like toure. I remember Gary neville I think was talking about toure saying 'he just goes through the motions'. Which was so true. Always jogging up and down the pitch but not actively covering space or a player. Not pressing anyone.

Pogba is similar. No idea about space or who to mark. Hes always on the move but often his running is useless.

Look at Roy Keane for example. He would mark an area / zone. Look at danger, close opposition, watch runners etc. That's hard work.

Just running up and down the pitch for a very athletic player isn't good enough. It's a lazy way of playing even though he may be running a fair amount as he's just going through the motions of being either in defence or attack.

Like the other day when he did not even attempt the header vs Newcastle. How often will he do that? Be near a guy but not make a tackle? Not hound a player down but just jog along with him. Its infuriating to watch.

I'd have Keane, Scholes, Vieira, Gerrard and maybe Lampard ahead of Toure, for overall contributions in the PL. So he's just outside the top 5. I reckon most people would put him in a similar position. Certainly not the best but one of the best.

I think Pogba could be the best of the lot. Long way to go no doubt but he's got so much to offer.

 

[RedFish]

Because he'd rather face the opposition head on?

 

[Williams1960]

I'd have Keane, Scholes, Vieira, Gerrard and maybe Lampard ahead of Toure, for overall contributions in the PL. So he's just outside the top 5. I reckon most people would put him in a similar position. Certainly not the best but one of the best.

I think Pogba could be the best of the lot. Long way to go no doubt but he's got so much to offer.

I certainly don't think he will be the best of the lot. They all had ability and the attitude and brain .out of them Gerrard was the most complete and had a brilliant attitude. The attitude that fergie loved. Fire in his belly and plays on the edge.

Pogba has ability and would be a much better player if used properly. But he won't reach the Keane, viera or Gerrard levels.

 

[ghagua]

He runs, but he does not do it with enough intensity when defending, closing down an opponent, especially what is required in a 2 man midfield.

 

[DevilRed]

He runs, but he does not do it with enough intensity when defending, closing down an opponent, especially what is required in a 2 man midfield.

Could definately improve in that aspect. His tackling is actually really good. He is capable of winning the ball off anybody if he puts his mind to it.

Except he isnt very consistent in his effort and tracking back. Tends to get caught out by runners into the box often.

Something for him to improve upon to become the ultimate midfielder.