Jose saving his skin - yet again.. (Manager v Players blame game)

[Thomas A.Anderson]

I'd expect from our manager to build players up and get the best out of them. I also expect our manager to find a tactic / formation that works. However, Jose does this only partially and I'm getting tired of him throwing players under the bus while he himself is the biggest factor why things are not going well

I think that most of the posters still don't understand that this IS the best that this players can play, Pogba and Sanchez excluded. When and where did rest of them play at the highest level constantly and consistently throught the season/seasons?

And when I say highest level I mean enough to win a league and Champions League.

De Gea, Matić, Pogba at Juventus, Mata. Valencia in a distant past. Plus Sanchez who is capable of better but realistically he was a fringe player in Barcelona and then best in Arsenal, but it's Arsenal.

Is there anybody else who showed in their career enough quality so we can say that he is currently underperforming?

 

[torrent]

Just watch the opponents in EL, it's like fighting in the Championship. There shouldn't be such a honour for winning this cup, especially LC, which is the same garbage as Community Shield. The improvement is not enough for money that the club had spend.

 

[NK86]

So then it is going to be down if our coaches can coach that or a more effective way of playing?

I certainly feel so. Pressing, like any other quality, can be taught and improved upon. It's not a flair thing that some have more than others. The players we have are more than capable of adapting to the high press if Mou wants to implement it.

 

[Siorac]

You think he likes Smalling? At every chance he gets, he tried to replace him. If Jones were fit, there is no chance Smalling would be playing.

Lindelöf is fit.

 

[Adisa]

Sad part is I don't think we'd be any worse off results wise,if we'd just go after teams and be more expansive.
A lot of dropped points have come from only giving ourselves 45 minutes or less to score a goal.

 

[NK86]

Ok, but I am just using an example of us using both tactics in one game. We sat deep against Liverpool and de Gea didn't have a save to make.

I know but we sat deep against a lot of other teams and we were cut open at will many times.

 

[Siorac]

I’m a bit late to this thread and I haven’t read what’s come before this but I’d be surprised if this wasn’t mentioned before now.

Not to draw comparisons but Ferguson wasn’t exactly afraid of ‘bullying’ a player out of the club. Keane, Stam, Rooney (almost) and Beckham are a few to note, he even physically assaulted Beckham, albeit by accident. The difference between the two is that players knew if Fergie turned on you, you were a gonner and no other players would stick their necks on the line if you were getting too big for your boots.

With Mourinho however, it feels like the players feel they can have a strop and complain about bullying.

In all honesty, I don’t know who to support in this. We either back Mourinho 100% and send a clear message to the players that you shape up or your ship out. Or we potentially give in to player power and sack him at the end of the season. Either way, I feel we stand to lose from this situation and it’s mainly down to a piss poor mentality we have amoungst the squad, barring a few players.

Giving 100% control to a manager who never stayed beyond the third season anywhere (well, Chelsea, for a month into the fourth season) and has a habit of falling out with just about everyone is very, very, very risky. Imagine if Perez had shipped out everyone who was against Mourinho at Madrid. Ramos, Marcelo, Ronaldo...

Basically, if Woodward and co. felt that the squad needed a massive rebuild then Mourinho was the worst possible choice. An extremely divisive, short-term manager is not one whom you entrust with a major, long-term rebuild. He's a manager who used to be able to take a group of players, galvanise them and with a few signings, turn them into a winning unit. The idea that Mourinho would need to have the entire squad replaced before his ideas can work is a very novel one.

 

[7even]

Mourinho have just signed a extension of his contract. He will stay this season, next season and probably one season more.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I also find it interesting that Lukaku said this after the Sevilla game:

"Something was wrong with some players, some players were hiding"

Funny how both our manager and best (2nd at worst) player feel the same about some of our players. But posters on Redcafe obviously know better.

 

[El Zoido]

I fear for us if we back the manager over the players here. Mourinho has previous with players turning on him and imploding the club, it happened with Chelsea and Madrid. The problem is that the football is so bad, can you blame the players for feeling frustrated? We’re dreadful to watch.

I can’t help but imagine our lads watching MotD on a Saturday night and seeing highlights of City, Spurs and Liverpool and wondering what the hell United are playing at. I’m sorry to say it but the prestige of this club is dwindling with each passing year. If I was a top footballer who didn’t support Utd, I wouldn’t want to play for us.

 

[noodlehair]

There's a lot of presumption and over reaction on both sides of the fence really.

Jose's interviews after the last two games have been a bit pathetic and also contradictory though. He comes out after the Seville game and basically accuses the players and club of being shite in order to absolve himself of blame.

Then after the next game comes out having a go at the players because they "don't have the personality to play"...you can't accuse them of being rubbish then at the same time have a go at them for thinking they are rubbish. Especially not when it's literally your job to make sure they aren't rubbish.

I'm also getting extremely tired of his self obsessive behaviour to the media. Every single press conference he is attacking someone for daring to criticise him. The 12 minute monologue the other day was predictable and narcissistic. He can't let any minor piece of criticism of himself slide so a barrage of it was always going to send him a bit loopy.

I genuinely think his insecure self obsession gets in the way of him doing his job. It gets to a point where instead of making the right decision, he's just doing stuff out of emotion because he can't handle the idea he might have got something wrong or that people have a right to criticise him.

 

[roonster09]

People who are very quick to blame players and calling them deadwood, here is what Jose said in August.

"I want to play West Ham a difficult match, then go to Swansea for another difficult match. I want the Champions League to start. I want, I want, I'm on fire. But I will behave on the touchline, even if goals are offside," he said.

"In many ways, it is my team. In terms of the squad, this is my second transfer window. I was thinking, three transfer windows, I need that. But after two windows I have a good group and a football club much better equipped.

"We are much better organised in the areas that support the first-team squad. We are much better organised at every level. So we will go for it this season. We are going to try to win the title."

He added: "We are going to try to give a hard fight to the top teams in Europe in the Champions League. And I always had respect and the desire to do well in the English cups and I always liked to go to the finals. We have a good squad - a good squad also in numbers.

"We also have people coming later - Ashley Young, Luke Shaw, Marcos Rojo, maybe Zlatan (Ibrahimovic). They can still be like new players for us later in the season, so we are fine."

To buy lots of good players is important. Better squads are better equipped to win the title. That is normal, but that is not enough. I think every one of us is equipped to win the title.

https://news.sky.com/story/jose-mou...-ready-for-a-serious-title-challenge-10986691


So just like last season when he started with title challenging talk, and this season he started to blame players and how they are not good enough when he said squad is good, also in depth.

 

[Jim Beam]

Just a week ago players executed his tactics and instructions to the teeth against Liverpool. Week later most of them don't have personality, class and desire?
Something doesn't add up and I don't buy it at all. As most other things he said in the last few days.

He should remain a manager, but we would be crazy if we give him free rein and all the power considering his past. There are too many question marks on the field and his recent behavior certainly doesn't help. He made a progress fair enough, well so did the players. Based on that he deserves to go on, but there is also no need for any major overhaul in the team that's on the route for 80+ points in the league while some of our best players struggle at the same time.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Just a week ago players executed his tactics and instructions to the teeth against Liverpool. Week later most of them don't have personality, class and desire?
Something doesn't add up and I don't buy it at all.

Well to be fair, a few of the starting line-up versus Brighton didn’t start versus Liverpool.

 

[Jim Beam]

Well to be fair, a few of the starting line-up versus Brighton didn’t start versus Liverpool.

He change 3 outfield players, one of them being Alexis who struggles since he came here and we can't get the best out of him.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Well to be fair, a few of the starting line-up versus Brighton didn’t start versus Liverpool.

Think people are more bothered about the ones who played against Liverpool and didn't start against Sevilla.

 

[Adisa]

There's a lot of presumption and over reaction on both sides of the fence really.

Jose's interviews after the last two games have been a bit pathetic and also contradictory though. He comes out after the Seville game and basically accuses the players and club of being shite in order to absolve himself of blame.

Then after the next game comes out having a go at the players because they "don't have the personality to play"...you can't accuse them of being rubbish then at the same time have a go at them for thinking they are rubbish. Especially not when it's literally your job to make sure they aren't rubbish.

I'm also getting extremely tired of his self obsessive behaviour to the media. Every single press conference he is attacking someone for daring to criticise him. The 12 minute monologue the other day was predictable and narcissistic. He can't let any minor piece of criticism of himself slide so a barrage of it was always going to send him a bit loopy.

I genuinely think his insecure self obsession gets in the way of him doing his job. It gets to a point where instead of making the right decision, he's just doing stuff out of emotion because he can't handle the idea he might have got something wrong or that people have a right to criticise him.

Bang on.
This is why I said the idea that he was protecting the players after the Sevilla game was nonsensical.
He is also very insecure and that is why he always (and without fail) will separate himself from any perceived failure.
People get upset with the Trump reference but in that sense, they're extremely similar.

 

[Fridge chutney]

People who are very quick to blame players and calling them deadwood, here is what Jose said in August.



https://news.sky.com/story/jose-mou...-ready-for-a-serious-title-challenge-10986691


So just like last season when he started with title challenging talk, and this season he started to blame players and how they are not good enough when he said squad is good, also in depth.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I dont agree that we are not good enough overall, based on a relative strengthening from previous seasons. Undoubtedly we were not good enough against Huddersfield, Bristol, and Sevilla, and we could have done better in a few other matches. But overall we are better than at any time since SAF retired. That is important to keep in perspective.

The truth is always somewhere in the middle. The players have not always been up to standard. But neither has Jose. If both continue to improve, then we're in good hands.

 

[roonster09]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I dont agree that we are not good enough overall, based on a relative strengthening from previous seasons. were not good enough against Huddersfield, Bristol, and Sevilla, and we could have done better in a few other matches. But overall we are better than at any time since SAF retired. That is important to keep in perspective.

The truth is always somewhere in the middle. The players have not always been up to standard. But neither has Jose. If both continue to improve, then were in good hands.

Agree with that. Hard not to when the bar was so low.

 

[Red_toad]

Mourinho have just signed a extension of his contract. He will stay this season, next season and probably one season more.

If the clubs views him as under performing then he'll be gone. I'd certainly the Glazers/Ed will look at investment in the team and expected performances. If Jose continues to not get the best out of the major signing, then he'll be gone. With his recent meltdowns it'll be a summer of purging out the players he can't work with. The club cannot just spend 100 million plus every time Jose decides a player isn't following his exact instructions. It's far cheaper just to pay out his contract and move onto a coach who isn't as volatile.

 

[Topgun1]

He's desperate to take over at PSG. He knows there is a vacancy there at the end of the season. He can't just walk away from United, he's looking for a "mutually agreed" way out. Extremely reckless and classless.

He's already at one of the top clubs and he should be happy managing United. A lot of managers would love to be in his position. He has nowhere else to go other than PSG or Inter since he has fallen out with everybody else.

 

[Bestietom]

Mourinho will more than likely get the backing for another season, but if the football does not improve it should be his last. He is running down players that he brought in himself ffs. 300 million and counting.
His tactics are just not working and he needs to change if he really wants to get this Great Club back to where it should be.

 

[onemata]

I did not want Jose as manager and my opinion has not changed. His falling out with the players and particularly with the popular Dr at Chelsea should have been a warning sign. He is no longer special that is the past.

The negatives are:

- It's all about him. Self justifying rants show he has lost the plot. Self confidence has tipped over into megalomania. Flirting with PSG in order to get another contract was a new low.

- He does not improve players he destroys them. Good players such as Rashford, Martial, Pogba, Sanchez, Shaw become average but Fellaini seems to be a God. His public criticism of Shaw is an embarrassment and simply does not work.

- Poor ego driven transfers. Did we really need Ibra at his age, Pogba hugely over priced, Sanchez when we have Rashford and Martial, Miki weak mentality a real Arsenal player, Lindelof just not very good. Where are the players bought for the future ? He did inherit a lot of average players like Jones, Smalling, Blind, Rojo, Lingard etc but his buys have not been very good apart from Matic and Bailly.

- I think all the top managers in the PL would do a better job with our players.

- He still lives in the Lowry which is very odd.

- Terrible negative tactics. I'm not a great believer in the West Ham way or the Man Utd way but these defensive tactics do not work these days.

- His players now hate him clearly and there is no squad cohesion. As someone said when asked about their opinion of Jose. You either hate him or you havn't met him.

- He has signed up for a Russian Kremlin funded TV broadcaster for the world cup. Nice !

Positives
- We are 2nd in the league and in the semi final of the FA cup which nobody cares about.

Enough is enough.

 

[Jazz]

He's desperate to take over at PSG. He knows there is a vacancy there at the end of the season. He can't just walk away from United, he's looking for a "mutually agreed" way out. Extremely reckless and classless.

He's already at one of the top clubs and he should be happy managing United. A lot of managers would love to be in his position. He has nowhere else to go other than PSG or Inter since he has fallen out with everybody else.

PSG want to win the CL. I would think after watching that dross he served up the other night, they may not be too keen to hire him.

 

[RedDevil@84]

PSG want to win the CL. I would think after watching that dross he served up the other night, they may not be too keen to hire him.

If Moyes could keep getting another job through his friends in press and all, then I guess Mou will have a better PR/Marketing team that can convince PSG to pay him the big bucks

 

[Dinghy]

He will get one more year because we'll still end up in the top 4, and it's going to get ugly. He's having a meltdown already in his second season here, and the players and fans are starting to get fed up with him. Best solution for all parts would be to part ways after this season.

 

[crossy1686]

Giving 100% control to a manager who never stayed beyond the third season anywhere (well, Chelsea, for a month into the fourth season) and has a habit of falling out with just about everyone is very, very, very risky. Imagine if Perez had shipped out everyone who was against Mourinho at Madrid. Ramos, Marcelo, Ronaldo...

Basically, if Woodward and co. felt that the squad needed a massive rebuild then Mourinho was the worst possible choice. An extremely divisive, short-term manager is not one whom you entrust with a major, long-term rebuild. He's a manager who used to be able to take a group of players, galvanise them and with a few signings, turn them into a winning unit. The idea that Mourinho would need to have the entire squad replaced before his ideas can work is a very novel one.

Yeah I hear you, it’s a massive risk indeed but the Brighton game on Saturday had shades of Moyes about it. Jose was stood on the touch line, waving his arms, shouting at players, telling them what to do and how to play, in the end he had to make substitutions because they were ignoring his instructions.

I’m not sure the squad needs a massive overhaul but there needs to be a clear display of power if Mourinho is to recover from this. You’ve only got to make an example of one or two and the rest fall in line, fast.

If we don’t allow Mourinho that then he’s as good as gone at the end of the season. The players will down tools and ensure he gets sacked.

I also feel kind of sorry for him. It’s been an impossible season. If City hadn’t had the record season they’ve had, he’d of got an easier ride for sure. But there’s no hiding place at the very top unfortunately.

 

[endless_wheelies]

It surely shows more about his lack of confidence in overtaking City than his zeal to do it.

As for perspective, he was pointedly asked about seasons ahead, not this season. So no, he wasn't addressing those, if any, who think we should already be ahead of City.

Ok you win he's happy to be perpetually in second place behind City and Pep.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Its ironic many on here dont know Mourinho's standard M.O. is to draw controversy to himself to protect players like he did post the Sevilla debacle. But to have himself rewarded with that nonsense vs Brighton. After he put his arse on the line pissing off fans. Yet y'all wonder why he was so angry

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Giving 100% control to a manager who never stayed beyond the third season anywhere (well, Chelsea, for a month into the fourth season) and has a habit of falling out with just about everyone is very, very, very risky. Imagine if Perez had shipped out everyone who was against Mourinho at Madrid. Ramos, Marcelo, Ronaldo...

Basically, if Woodward and co. felt that the squad needed a massive rebuild then Mourinho was the worst possible choice. An extremely divisive, short-term manager is not one whom you entrust with a major, long-term rebuild. He's a manager who used to be able to take a group of players, galvanise them and with a few signings, turn them into a winning unit. The idea that Mourinho would need to have the entire squad replaced before his ideas can work is a very novel one.

You do realise at Chelsea, Inter and Real Madrid he bought a squad of players before he succeeded right?

 

[Esquire]

He's desperate to take over at PSG. He knows there is a vacancy there at the end of the season. He can't just walk away from United, he's looking for a "mutually agreed" way out. Extremely reckless and classless.

He's already at one of the top clubs and he should be happy managing United. A lot of managers would love to be in his position. He has nowhere else to go other than PSG or Inter since he has fallen out with everybody else.

On some crazy and nonsensical level I wish that’s true. Can see the implosion happening because he is going so defensive and completely combative with everyone including his own players. TBF, he’s right to call BS on some of the players who we are think are pretty crap. That said, the way he just deflects and refuses to admit any fault on his own part is just tiring. Can imagine him spewing the same crap if we lose to Spurs in the FA semis.

 

[Jazz]

If Moyes could keep getting another job through his friends in press and all, then I guess Mou will have a better PR/Marketing team that can convince PSG to pay him the big bucks

Won't last 2 seconds with Neymar.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Bullying builds character and a strong mind /s

Serious or being sarcastic? Sorry can’t tell

 

[Varun]

Its ironic many on here dont know Mourinho's standard M.O. is to draw controversy to himself to protect players like he did post the Sevilla debacle. But to have himself rewarded with that nonsense vs Brighton. After he put his arse on the line pissing off fans. Yet y'all wonder why he was so angry

You need to relook the sequence of events.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Won't last 2 seconds with Neymar.

Neymar would need to show some personality. It is as simple as that

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Agree with that. Hard not to when the bar was so low.

Actually, it clearly isnt as easy as you're making it out to be.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Its ironic many on here dont know Mourinho's standard M.O. is to draw controversy to himself to protect players like he did post the Sevilla debacle. But to have himself rewarded with that nonsense vs Brighton. After he put his arse on the line pissing off fans. Yet y'all wonder why he was so angry

So it's just Mastermind Mourinho doing his usual stuff, and its just us mortals who can't read it.

Riiiiight.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Ok you win he's happy to be perpetually in second place behind City and Pep.

I bloody doubt it. That is why is is getting so stressed.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Neymar would need to show some personality. It is as simple as that

Not sure many people will last with Neymar to be fair. Real would be mad to take him if Ronaldo still there.

 

[E-mal]

I dont care if some of the guys here are his biological son, the man is finished!
He is just frustrated that the gulf in ability between him and his arc nemesis the baldy cnut is becoming more apparent. His rants are unfair on the players.
Philosophically his kind of football is been relegated to mid table teams with little to no resources. Football has moved on and Jose has been left behind.