I've always liked Messi more but let's be honest Messi right now has nothing on Ronaldo.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
- Status
Creativity is only about assists don't you know?Oh, he didn't?
Pressures opposing player into a bad pass (we're judging defensive effort if we compare him to Masche, so it counts as something, right?), beats two players in midfield, drags 3 players into him, pulling Witsel out of position, Higuain, freed of Witsel's cover makes Belgium's LB close in, leaving more space for Di Maria who now gets the ball in an advantage situation.
"But he wasn't the scorer, neither gave the direct assist", because Messi, playing as deep as a midfielder (it's in that video) has to score, we're going to disregard anything he does in that position, doesn't matter he wins the ball back, dribbles two players and attracts 3 guys, which opens that play up for Argentina.
I love how as I'm posting this its 357 vs.357 votes each.
I always used to rate Messi more; but think I've changed my mind now.
Ronaldo always does it; I mean bagging a hat-trick against Spain first game of the World Cup. Guy is iconic!
I always used to rate Messi more; but think I've changed my mind now.
Ronaldo always does it; I mean bagging a hat-trick against Spain first game of the World Cup. Guy is iconic!
Goals aren't the only part of a players game how many times do people need to be told this
Every single player you mentioned is terrible for Argentina or past their best or just not good at all.
They're not this stacked team.
They're attack heavy, but even those attackers constantly under-perform.
Not even one seasons worth of pure statistics? That sounds like an argument the Ronaldo camp would use.
This settles it then, according to some of the logic here...
The state of this thread.
FIFA considered changing the voting system.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...den-Ball-and-distances-himself-from-vote.html
fecking Ronaldo fanboys infiltrating everywhere
Did you watch the hat-trick? The free-kick was good, what about the other goals? So crazy how much narratives matter to folk on here.
Correct, they aren't. Neither are assists. None of that changes that Messi receiving that award was a joke and is widely considered so.
Dybala, Higuain, Di Maria, Biglia, Banega and Fazio didn't even make it into the starting eleven but players like Acuna, Salvio, Meza, Perez and Mercado. What does that tell you about their level of performance for Argentina?
In your opinion it maybe most overrated but in mine I think it's a very important attribute especially when we are debating The Greatest.
I don't think much conversation can be had with you when you made it quite clear you value technical qualities in a player far more which is fine by me.
...and things which Messi can do to help his team which no other player can apparently.
I can't believe I've been sucked into this shit. It's probably your fault.
Complete lie... again. I understand english perfectly well so as far as you're going to keep denying an obvious truth like an idiot... I'm going to quote you again.
Of course I did. He won the penalty too. Not seen Messi do too much so far; apart from miss one.
It has been interesting watching them in this World Cup.
It seems like Messi looks around his team mates and thinks they are not Barcelona I am too good for this team my team mates let me down .
Whereas Ronaldo looks around st his team and says they are not as good as Real Madrid , they are not as good as me therefore I will drag them along with me I will be there leader and we will be winners .
Ronaldo delivers for his team when they need him too he encourages them throughout the game his leadership style is inspirational.Messi goes into a sulk and does not encourage his team mates it is ridiculous to compare them anymore .Ronaldo is head and shoulders above him, how some people can’t see this is beyond belief and in a word dillusional
@wub1234 stop posting in this thread ffs, Messi doesn't need defending, he's a damn good football player, the best in the world. Don't let these dolts goad you into meltdown
Goals only count if they're scored in a way I like them to be scored though.
Diego Costa scored off a deflection yesterday, against Portugal he scored a tap in and a goal after a foul. Not a fan of that so he currently has 0 goals.
Fair enough. I simply feel like all this mentality stuff gets so much attention and leads to many, many players being treated unfairly, that's why it triggered me a little. Özil, Pogba, Kroos (in his earlier days), Thiago, Isco, Götze are only some examples, and now it even hits Messi. Body language is the first thing people attack when things don't work out and few are able to see past it and consider the possibility that someone can give their best besides don't looking like it - and others could be lazy although they appear to be aggressive leaders.
Oh come on man. Messi has performed great in every CL final. Ronaldo hasn't. Let's hop off this comparison with NBA players.
How dishonest are you being? In the Messi vs others comparison, we're not saying Messi is only better because of everything outside of goals and assists. We're saying in combination with those statistics. Even in that little pic you showed clearly there is what? 1000 minutes of playing time difference.
This settles it then, according to some of the logic here...
Not surprised it's you or Cal though.
I'll take it, it's funny to watch.
It's hilarious. I can't take anymore, though. It's like the Twilight Zone.
13 minutes of Messi dribbling, passing, initiating attacks and creating against Iceland. Enjoy.
PS: There are no goals in there. If that is the only thing you value in a footballer, then I can save you the time. In this case, he really didn't do "too much so far".
He's the captain of his team going into the biggest tournament of his life, he's the hopes and dreams of his country... he can't look like he doesn't even want to be there. How much it matters is up to discussion but I have no doubt it does matter. Caballero makes that mistake and Messi is there looking at the ground while Mascherano is the one getting everyones spirits up... it's a terrible image.
I don't disagree that Messi has outshone Ronaldo in CL finals.
And the comparison was more about mentality.
Lazy arguments at their finests, Ronaldo plays for Real Madrid, not Barcelona.
Before Messi, Real Madrid had 8 frigging European Cups and 13 league titles on Barcelona, Argentina has 2 World Cups on Portugal. Real Madrid have their 2nd best president in 100+ years of history, Barcelona has spent the last 6 years with two presidents, one is right now in jail for stealing from the club, and the othe, current one, was Rosell's right hand.
If you're going to cop out a player because situations and expectations are different, you could at least be just, Barcelona have been historically as far from Real Madrid as Portugal were from Argentina in World Cups.
In 2006 he was decent, nothing more nothing less than Messi in 2010. Using the logic of scoring in big games that Ronaldo fans seem to love, he did fecking nothing for the competition because only goals count appearantly. I see he gets a pass because Netherlands kicked the shit out of him. Do you think he was anything above shite in 2010 and 2014? C'mon he was atrocious.
The CL ko rounds... are the CL KO rounds, and Ronaldo has the better of that but Messi has turned up in every final Ronaldo hasn't.
So Messi is better in finals right? Messi has scored in 2 of 3 finals, important decisive goals too.
Ronaldo has scored in 3 of 6, the decisive goals in the Juve final were his and for United in taking Chelsea to extra time. In the other 4 games he decided nothing. So Ronaldo has been decisive in 2 of his 6 finals, Messi in 2 of his 3 in the CL. It's all about the big games right?
Ronaldo hasn't played any decent part in a major international final, Messi has been the best player in 3 of his despite coming out on the wrong end more.
Messi has been the better big game player then... right?
Fwiw, I still firmly believe that there is only a coin flip if even that between them but the myth Ronaldo is amazing for Portugal and Messi shite for Argentina has to die a horrible death. Until Aguero's goal last week Messi was the only scorer for Argentina in a competitive game in almost 2 full years (though thats what they get for leaving out Kun for Higuain.)
The expectations are due to the players around him, not because of the history of what their teams did 50 years ago for fecks sake
Benfica don't go into the Champions League with the expectation of winning it.
Yeah just like like Michael Jordan, if he would have lost most of his final MVP to Pippen or Rodman.
That said Messi's overall international records is really poor for a player of his standard. He literally doesn't have a single notable performance in a major tournament against a good team. Cristiano Ronaldo's isn't that special historically either.
It is kind of funny to see the very same mental gymnastics used now for Messi that were needed by the Ronaldo guys when Messi was at his absolute superhuman best.
Ronaldo right now is so far ahead due to his hunger and desire, just as clear as Messi had the higher peak a couple of years ago.
Ronaldo right now is so far ahead due to his hunger and desire, just as clear as Messi had the higher peak a couple of years ago.
I like it and want to try it myself
Footballing/Technique Cruyff > Maradona > Ronaldinho > Pele > R9
Consistency Pele > CR7 > Messi > Di Stefano > Cruyff
Longevity Pele > CR7 > Di Stefano > Messi > Puskas
Big Moment Maradona > Pele > Garrincha > Zidane > Iniesta
Achievement Pele > Beckenbauer > Maradona > Di Stefano > CR7
Very difficult and I bet I will think differently about it tomorrow
Longevity Pele > CR7 > Di Stefano > Messi > Puskas
Big Moment Maradona > Pele > Garrincha > Zidane > Iniesta
Achievement Pele > Beckenbauer > Maradona > Di Stefano > CR7
Very difficult and I bet I will think differently about it tomorrow
Nottingham Forest still shattered year after year for missing out yet again.
Sorry I wasn't massively clear about it being a generalisation, forgot about that on this/any forum. I was simply stating that historical stats will back up who (generally) have historically been classed as the best ever before we knew what half of these stats even were. They haven't changed anything, just further confirmed them. Stats have tended to back up similar things in all the other sports that have had them, I'm not sure why Football is so against them.....Football would probably deny Barry Bonds was the best player on the planet by some distance(regardless of his roidage) due to the fact he couldn't win the World Series for instance. Despite the fact the talent was clearly there for the team to do so.
And well the whoscored system was setup before the World Cuo in 2014, so in their way...and however the voting(marketing?) was done to give the award, Messi was the best player. So theres your "no way" out of the window
The Ballon d'Or is given out on the same voting system, where it's essentially just people opinions.
So I just told you that I said this:
Here is what I actually said:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/messi-v-ronaldo.400526/page-262#post-22589894
I completely stand by that opinion.
In terms of Salah and Neymar, I said the following:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/messi-v-ronaldo.400526/page-276#post-22669550
Which is exactly what I stated that I'd said.
The fact remains that Messi is the only player in Europe's major leagues to top passing, assists, goals, dribbles, free-kicks in the same season because he is a completely unique player. Nothing will change this, whatever anyone says.
When Ronaldo joined Madrid they weren't competing in Europe and had gone 7 years without winning CL. Barca at this time was in their golden age with Pep. Ronaldo didn't have it easy at all.
What the feck... he was just our best player, by far.
Yeah because he's only played in 3... Ronaldo's played in 6. That's the case because he actually bothers to show up more often than not.
It's honestly incredible how little you guys care about the truth to spout shit like this. You're like politicians.
Those 2 years... they played 6 fecking games in that time. 6.. Argentina scored 5 goals, 1 own goal and 4 Messi goals. One penalty against Chile and the hattrick against Ecuador's U23 team. I've seen that stat pop up about 100 different times from so many different people and noone actually cares about how that happened.
Responsibility is more than that. Mascherano has had a desastrous game with many mistakes and possession losses. Why do you think Messi demands so many balls and drops deep? I guess he would prefer playing closer to goal, too, but you could see it perfectly in this game. It was clear that he had instructions to stay further up front but he barely got any passes in the first half because the midfield was atrocious without him. And after Croatia scored the first goal, he started dropping deep again, demanding passes and initiating attacks himself. He's the player the team is searching when they are in need of inspiration.
Screaming and motivating is another thing but in all honesty, I expect a captain to take matters in his own hands when the going gets tough and that's what he does. He doesn't shy away but tries things on his own. And he goes where he feels the team needs him currently. You can't really say that about Ronnie anymore. When Messi sees the midfield play is lacking, he drops deep and helps out. With Ronaldo it is different, even if they are behind and nothing works he stays up top and waits for his mates to create chances for him. Of course he converts them and takes responsibility, e.g. in case of penalties, but this is not the same.
Mate... I freaking put what you said right there! I literally quoted you. You also said more things, that doesn't mean the quote I quoted you on was fake.
Bloody hell, you can't be serious. You said Bale was a better player than Ronaldo, that's a fact. If you're so ashamed of what you said to not being able to admit it when put obvious proof of it in front of you then you should think a bit more next time.
- Status