No, pelanties are not lottery is not untrue

[Andycoleno9]

I personally hate when pundits, journos, players, coaches and fans are all saying that penalties are lottery. Well they are not. For good and skilful players and goalkeeper at least. Spain-russia and especially croatia- denmark are best proof. Some players placed their shots perfectly. Did you see how kramaric took his shot? Or ramos? No luck in that shots. Pure class. On the other hand schone, pivaric and badelj? That was just bad. No looking at gk, they "told" gk from the start where shot will go. Also people confuse luck with mentality. If some players or teams are chokers( england, croatia) then you can't say that they are unlucky.
And goalkeeper role... Many pundits today talked about subasic, schmeichel and de gea. Subasic and schmeichel read nearly every shot and were in heads of penalty takers. De gea wasn't. He is best gk in the world but he was not good in that penalty shooting. Remember cilessen? Guy who never saved a penalty? Is he unlucky? No, he is just not good at saving penalties.

Of course there is some luck. I am not denying that. Like in everything in life and sport. Inch right or left can mean goal or save( modric and aspas) but in general "penalties are lottery" is one big football lie invented by people who are trying to find excuse for defeat.

 

[Grinner]

Players aren't robots.

 

[shamans]

It is not a pure lottery. There is some skill but... by in large it is way too dependent on luck. Guessing the right direction is a massive part of the penalty. Guessing.

On a side note, the "no" in this thread title is unnecessary.

 

[AndersB]

I think what's the least lottery-like about them, is how players that have had bad matches, always miss their penalty. Especially known players.

Like Eriksen yesterday. Was so obvious he would miss it. Made a bet with my brother about it.

With Koke the same. Shite match, and obviously missed the peno.

You could argue the same for Modric yesterday too

This happens every tournament, but for some reason managers do not take notice.

 

[El Zoido]

I agree. Yesterday Rio said of the shootout, “it’s 50/50 now.”

But it’s not. You’re not flipping a coin. Hit a good penalty and you’ll score, nothing the gk can do about it. It’s a test of mental fortitude and ability to perform when the pressure is highest.

 

[Sarni]

I agree that some goalkeepers tend to be much better at saving penalties than others. I remember how at the last Euro I was frustrated with Fabiański not getting subbed out for Boruc as he was completely hopeless and saved none of 10 penalties taken by Switzerland and Portugal (the one Switzerland missed was off target).

 

[Andycoleno9]

It is not a pure lottery. There is some skill but... by in large it is way too dependent on luck. Guessing the right direction is a massive part of the penalty. Guessing.

Germany has perfect score on penalties. England is the worst. So germany is luckiest team in the world?

 

[Sarni]

Also, if it was a lottery you would expect a 50% win ratio for teams who are frequently involved in them, give or take a few per cent. England must have 30% at best.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Also, if it was a lottery you would expect a 50% win ratio for teams who are frequently involved in them, give or take a few per cent. England must have 30% at best.

As i know england has zero%. Maybe i am wrong...

 

[spwd]

Can we have a poll?

 

[Drawfull]

Dunno like, they involve balls and picking them randomly out of a net and the more you correctly guess the more you win (unless someone else guesses more than you correctly).

Sounds like the lottery to me.

 

[Revan]

Of course they are not. Luck plays a part there, but so does the mentality and the preparation for them.

 

[shamans]

Germany has perfect score on penalties. England is the worst. So germany is luckiest team in the world?

There's some skill. Germans have better shooters, better mentality and often a better keeper but luck is just too big of a factor. Why do you think minnows bring it down to penalties?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Also, if it was a lottery you would expect a 50% win ratio for teams who are frequently involved in them, give or take a few per cent. England must have 30% at best.

Worse than that 1 win in 7 I believe.

No they are not a lottery. The penalty taker shouldn't miss if he hits the penalty correctly, unless the keepers cheat like they did in the Denmark - Croatia game.

 

[Sky1981]

Half of it is lottery. If you guess the direction wrong there's nothing you can do as a keeper. Nothing, assuming the takers didnt miss.

 

[ChaddyP]

The double negative in the title is annoying my brain

 

[shamans]

Worse than that 1 win in 7 I believe.

No they are not a lottery. The penalty taker shouldn't miss if he hits the penalty correctly, unless the keepers cheat like they did in the Denmark - Croatia game.

Yes but what about the bad penalties that go in purely because of the keepers wrong directional guess?

 

[Andycoleno9]

There's some skill. Germans have better shooters, better mentality and often a better keeper but luck is just too big of a factor. Why do you think minnows bring it down to penalties?

Because it is easier to beat stronger team on penalties then in open game. Better takers, "crazy" goalkeeper, they know that big teams will have bigger pressure, etc...

 

[Cassidy]

Mental toughness is tested to its max, hit a proper penalty and no keeper is saving it

 

[Siorac]

The double negative in the title is annoying my brain

It's not a double negative. "No" is not part of the clause that contains the verb, it's a separate entity in the sentence.

 

[Andycoleno9]

The double negative in the title is annoying my brain

It's not a double negative. "No" is not part of the clause that contains the verb, it's a separate entity in the sentence.

. Ok, english is not my first language but i don't see problem here. It is like " no no no no and no, ( little pause) penalties are not lottery!!"

 

[shamans]

It's not a double negative. "No" is not part of the clause that contains the verb, it's a separate entity in the sentence.

That title is a terrible sentence though. Why couldn't the title just be "penalties are not lottery".

 

[Schneckerl]

I'd say there is a lower skill gap between good and bad teams therfore making upsets more likely. Another thing is shooting penalties often isn't perfectly correlated with actual football playing ability.

 

[Siorac]

That title is a terrible sentence though. Why couldn't the title just be "penalties are not lottery".

It's for added emphasis. It's a perfectly good sentence. It conveys a slight exasperation with the idea that penalties are down to pure luck and strongly rejects it.

 

[Minimalist]

They're not a lottery but there is a huge slice of luck involved.

 

[Andycoleno9]

That title is a terrible sentence though. Why couldn't the title just be "penalties are not lottery".

You are killing me, man

 

[P-Nut]

I didn't not come in here due to the thread title.

 

[shamans]

It's for added emphasis. It's a perfectly good sentence. It conveys a slight exasperation with the idea that penalties are down to pure luck and strongly rejects it.

It is a bad sentence and using complex words will not redeem it. If he really wanted to go all Bertrand Russell should have gone "No. Penalties are not a lottery".

Unfortunately that's the internet for you nowadays. People taking pride in complex English structure correct "your" vs "you're" (as if anyone cares on the internet??) but getting the basics all shitty.

 

[endless_wheelies]

No, I won't not reply to this.

 

[shamans]

You are killing me, man

I didn't start it plus I believe we 99 percent of us have pretty bad English including myself. Just don't like the grammar specialists that show up.

 

[Brwned]

Germany has perfect score on penalties. England is the worst. So germany is luckiest team in the world?

It's down to goalkeepers. They're the one constant in the line up so if you've got a good one you've got a significant advantage. Few teams have 5 good penalty takers - whether the keeper can save the bad ones is often really decisive.

I reckon if you asked 100 people on the caf who won in penalties based on goalkeepers and another 100 based on penalty takers, the group picking based on keepers would be much more accurate.

Wouldn't take too long to pull up the numbers for goalkeepers' penalty records and contrast that with team success rate in e.g. just the world cup. I'm sure it's bigger than people think.

 

[Siorac]

It is a bad sentence and using complex words will not redeem it. If he really wanted to go all Bertrand Russell should have gone "No. Penalties are not a lottery".

Unfortunately that's the internet for you nowadays. People taking pride in complex English structure correct "your" vs "you're" (as if anyone cares on the internet??) but getting the basics all shitty.

Are you serious right now? It's the comma that's bothering you? Or what? I seriously don't understand what's wrong with the original thread title. It was as clear as it gets. What if we have a conversation like this:

- Do you want to watch a film tonight?
- No, I don't.

Do you consider the answer a "bad sentence"? Should it just be "I don't?" Or "No. I don't."? Or what?

 

[el magico]

As i know england has zero%. Maybe i am wrong...

No. Is not true. The untruth is not England are not zero%. No, the truth is England are more than zero%. See Spain in Euro 96. Maybe 12%.

 

[Cal?]

As i know england has zero%. Maybe i am wrong...

England beat Spain in Euro 96, I was there at Wmbley

 

[Cal?]

Germany has perfect score on penalties. England is the worst. So germany is luckiest team in the world?

Germany do not have a perfect penalty record, they lost one in the 70s. But perfect record for over 4 decades now

 

[do.ob]

It's not a complete lottery, but the luck factor is significantly higher and it just feels to me that a penalty shootout - while being a dramatic spectacle - has little to do with regular football. If FIFA can come up with a different solution I wont miss them.

 

[el3mel]

Still trying to understand the thread title so I can replay. Give me few more minutes please.

 

[Siorac]

England beat Spain in Euro 96, I was there at Wmbley

It was a terrible game of football though, no wonder people forgot about it.

 

[Brwned]

Are you serious right now? It's the comma that's bothering you? Or what? I seriously don't understand what's wrong with the original thread title. It was as clear as it gets. What if we have a conversation like this:

- Do you want to watch a film tonight?
- No, I don't.

Do you consider the answer a "bad sentence"? Should it just be "I don't?" Or "No. I don't."? Or what?

It's the 2nd half. Comma is all good. Penalties are a lottery is the most straightforward way to say it. No, it's not untrue to say penalties are a lottery is another, more convoluted way of saying it. The title has a weird flow and a weird double negative.

 

[Cal?]

It's not a complete lottery, but the luck factor is significantly higher and it just feels to me that a penalty shootout - while being a dramatic spectacle - has little to do with regular football. If FIFA can come up with a different solution I wont miss them.

I think the ABBA is slightly better