Fergie criticised several players during his reign but no one dared to go behind his back and complain to the media. Our football club has become a bit of joke in recent years - there's no real hierarchy and the players (some) really do believe that they're more important than the club.
Pogba: "There are things I cannot say, otherwise I will get fined"
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
Surprised nobody has mentioned that this is most likely related to Martial. Pogba is, rightfully, pissed off that his mate Martial has been fined two weeks wages for missing games at the tail-end of the tour. Pointless games, which were missed to care for his sick child. This is something most reasonable people understand. Jose is not reasonable. He fines Martial 2 weeks wages. Hence Pogbas comments here. Makes complete sense and explains everything.
Why would he not play Sunday? No way he is dropped.
Is it confirmed that the club did actually fine Martial?
The difference is, Fergie never undermined his players. That's an extremely important thing whether you're a football manager or managing in any other capacity.
Wouldn't you say that most 'reasonable' people have read the statement which Martial gave, where he explained very clearly that his baby was fine and it was his girl who wasn't doing well?
Absolutely. That's exactly how I read it as well, and clearly so did Pogba. Jose was also absolving himself of any blame. Should have kept those things to himself, but he's got foot in mouth disease.
At the same time, Pogba needs to zip it and just get on with his job. His comments are understandable given the circumstances, but not because his manager moans about everything publicly, doesn't mean he has the right to do the same. Needs to sort things out behind the scenes.
if Mourinho didn't appreciate the quotes - he's dropped him for a crucial game like Sevilla for less
Why do people try to find an excuse for Pogba? Ie Martial
Not the first time he has behaved like this. After the left Utd for Juventus he couldn’t keep his mouth shut about Utd not playing him.
It’s how he behaves.... also his agent likes moving his client as much as possible look at Zlantan early career/ batoletti/ Maxwell
Both him and Mourinho need to shut up and concentrate on how to be more consistent
Also if Mourinho leaves Utd this season will any major club off him a job?
Not the first time he has behaved like this. After the left Utd for Juventus he couldn’t keep his mouth shut about Utd not playing him.
It’s how he behaves.... also his agent likes moving his client as much as possible look at Zlantan early career/ batoletti/ Maxwell
Both him and Mourinho need to shut up and concentrate on how to be more consistent
Also if Mourinho leaves Utd this season will any major club off him a job?
Jose wouldn't drop a player that's performing to a high level. When Pogba got dropped for Sevilla he was in a bit of a slump. Also I reckon after beating Liverpool the weekend before the Sevilla game Jose thought we could do Sevilla without Pogba. The Pogba who played last Friday was in the groove. Jose won't risk losing for personal issues. He played Ronaldo after Ronaldo claimed he was 'sad' at the start of 2012-13. However, later in the season when asked why Madrid weren't doing better he said its cos they started the season 'sad.' I imagine there will be a similar barb for Pogba at some stage during the season if things don't all settle down.
The Sevilla game gets to me cause Mourinho expected fecking McTominay or Fellaini to offer more than Pogba.
Pogba going through a patch of poor form or not.
McTominay and Fellaini. Christ.
Pogba going through a patch of poor form or not.
McTominay and Fellaini. Christ.
What do people expect?
The amount of money in the modern game and the value of these players has made them infinitely more valuable than the managers. This money has attracted vulture-like agents that are constantly in the ears of the players, influencing their every move in a society driven by a mass media that thrives on controversy, in a culture dominated by self indulgent egos and a demand for serial publicity. Players were once slaves to the game; now it's the other way around, and it's a damning indictment of the footballing powers that have allowed it to happen.
With regards to Pogba himself; the guy was an integral part of a side that has just won the World Cup, he's almost certainly our most talented outfield player, and he showed as much in the first game of the season with only a few days of preseason training under his belt. Disregarding the power struggles within the club, his recent statements laced with contempt at the club's hierarchy, and the cretin that he associates with, Pogba still deserves to be paid for his worth, which to this Mourinho side, is much greater than Alexis has proved to be.
If he wants to leave the club, let him leave next summer and put plans in place to replace him directly, or change the way we play in advance of his transfer. I can understand his frustrations with this team and the restrictive approach of it's manager. I can't say it would appeal to me much either. Of all the players on the planet, I'd suggest that Pogba is one that needs to feel the enjoyment of self expression more than most.
The amount of money in the modern game and the value of these players has made them infinitely more valuable than the managers. This money has attracted vulture-like agents that are constantly in the ears of the players, influencing their every move in a society driven by a mass media that thrives on controversy, in a culture dominated by self indulgent egos and a demand for serial publicity. Players were once slaves to the game; now it's the other way around, and it's a damning indictment of the footballing powers that have allowed it to happen.
With regards to Pogba himself; the guy was an integral part of a side that has just won the World Cup, he's almost certainly our most talented outfield player, and he showed as much in the first game of the season with only a few days of preseason training under his belt. Disregarding the power struggles within the club, his recent statements laced with contempt at the club's hierarchy, and the cretin that he associates with, Pogba still deserves to be paid for his worth, which to this Mourinho side, is much greater than Alexis has proved to be.
If he wants to leave the club, let him leave next summer and put plans in place to replace him directly, or change the way we play in advance of his transfer. I can understand his frustrations with this team and the restrictive approach of it's manager. I can't say it would appeal to me much either. Of all the players on the planet, I'd suggest that Pogba is one that needs to feel the enjoyment of self expression more than most.
Agreed. I've never had a job but I know from reading stuff on forums that you cannot do this and that and be a good manager.
He dropped him for McTominay and Fellaini
he'd come off a poor game at Spurs but it was a ridiculous decision
he was similarly petty in the away game at Sevilla, played an unfit Herrera who came off 10 mins into it
Wtf, just let this thread die man.. you're worse than the media.
He lost a lot of fans with that game.
The post match comments and the whole approach to the game was wrong.
Regardless, we were simply a better functioning football club back then. Truly, we're a shambles at this moment.
Excessive bad language
Thanks for explaining that. I would never have known otherwise.
Still doesn’t make grown men act like little cnuts any more palatable though.
If this poor little multi-millionaire is feeling bit hurt because Sanchez is earning more than him maybe he should consider we didn't pay a penny for Sanchez while we broke the fecking world record fee of £90 million or whatever for him.
Very different circumstances and it’s not like we’re shafting him on wages.
Twat needs to keep his mouth shut and realise what a privilege he has with us and be greatfull.
Talking about tactics and performance is one thing but all this “feelings” feckwittery is nauseating. Completely inappropriate in this context. Do your talking on the pitch bitch.
I'm just pointing out how out of touch you sound when you harp on about 'shut up and play football' like a grumpy old man
By the way, Graeme Souness, is that you?
By the way, Graeme Souness, is that you?
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Agree. Ronaldo was getting away with it because he was scoring 40-50 goals a season. Pogba is still far away from Ronaldo statue here.
With all the fuss the week leading up to the game about Barcelona I genuinely thought he was off. But after those comments and recent articles, I think he's just after a pay rise.
Winning the World Cup does zero for United. If he wants £350-400k a week he has to start playing like that. So far he's not showed that level apart from a hand full of games since joining.
Winning the World Cup does zero for United. If he wants £350-400k a week he has to start playing like that. So far he's not showed that level apart from a hand full of games since joining.
No it didnt. He was sacked because he didnt get champions league, and was a massive bell end not worth the effort to keep him around. When missing out on champions league, he'll be gone too. Player power happened at Chelsea and Leicester, not United.
Martial was not fined.
The issue also wasn’t going home, it was that he didn’t inform the club of his whereabouts.
Aren't people calling for underperforming players to fairly get dropped ?
I think the Seville home game was 100% on Mourinho, but at this point Pogba was trash against Newcastle and Spurs and deserved dropping for some games.
People here are calling for Sanchez to get dropped because he's underperforming but accuse Mourinho of being unfair because he previously dropped an underperforming Pogba. That's contradiction.
At least this shows that he actually has no favorites and will end up dropping any underperforming players if it matters. He did it with Rooney in his first season.
If people are saying Pogba is quality and even with playing rubbish he shouldn't be dropped, than don't call for Sanchez to be dropped either Everytime he has a poor game.
You just believe everything the media prints
How many goals scored Iniesta or Modric ? Your comparison is just irrelevant. Pogba is the most prolific midfielder in the world since at least 5 years.
Mourinho is trying to save his job, which is clearly under threat. Dropping his best player won't help his cause.
At the moment, Mourinho needs Pogba more than the other way around. And so does United!
I know, but I think Paul could be one of the greats if he commits, and if we build a team around him.
I think he's too proud to try and save his job, except by winning football games. Sure, he'll through players under the bus when they annoy him, but that's more because he's too proud to lie about their performances.
I know you mean publically but its worth pointing out that Fergie is well known to have absolutely slaughtered underperforming players in front of the rest of the team. I wonder these days if some here would have a problem with that too, i don't see a huge difference between that and public unless players pride and ego is only dented when the public hear.
Weve bloody tried for two years. He's been given that luxury of playing in every midfield slot as Jose tries finding ways to get him performing consistently. Jose has specifically bought players with Pogbas comfort and strengths in mind. Hes just not consistent enough to be considered world class at present.
He didn't just come off a poor game at Spurs, didn't he also argue with and challenge his manager on the touchline during that game? I would have grounded him myself.
at the hostility in this thread.Pogba's problem is clearly with Mourinho. First of all, he well knows that the media has been force feeding us this Mourinho v. Pogba story for weeks. He then tweets he will try his hardest no matter the situation - that "situation" is clearly that story. Then he says he can't say what he wants to or he will be fined. So obviously it's something serious. If you look at all the signs without the bias of what you want (him to stay, or him out or whatever), then I think you'll realize he is probably pining for a trade to Barcelona because he doesn't want to play under Mourinho. Whether he will get that is a different story.
Someone said - if he wanted a trade he'd just hand in a transfer request. That's not really realistic. He knows he's loved by the United fans and that is too extreme a move. He wants to move without having to do that. Thus comes in Raiola and Barcelona suggesting things which is basically the other way to do it.
Someone said - if he wanted a trade he'd just hand in a transfer request. That's not really realistic. He knows he's loved by the United fans and that is too extreme a move. He wants to move without having to do that. Thus comes in Raiola and Barcelona suggesting things which is basically the other way to do it.
This has been done to death but you don't build teams around players who barely play well enough to be part of the team half the time, and who have never stayed at a club more than a few years anyway.
If he plays well enough the team will naturally adapt to play around him. I think he has the ability to do it but he definitely hasn't yet.
This is true. Fergie came in when football management was very different and when a manager probably had a lot more control over his players than most do now. With it being easier for players to get transfers before and with players earning more than ever at the top level, a lot of the time when they do turn on the manager there's no route out of the problem except sacking the manager. Raneiri's a perfect example of that - sacking someone who'd achieved what he'd achieved just months after his crowning success would've been unthinkable years ago, but now managers tend to be a lot more disposable and often aren't the central authority at the club like they once were. Fergie was able to largely preserve that old way because of his stature within the club and because he was also able to adapt but for the most part you tend not to get figures so authoritative within a club anymore.
I obviously don't want to see Mourinho sacked to placate Pogba if there is a divide there, because it's a bad precedent to suggest one player can rule over the club in that sense, especially one who while talented has been meddling sometimes as well, but if the team as a whole had hypothetically soured on Mourinho to the point where it's actively hindering us, the solution would be to sack Mourinho even if the players are at fault. Mad as it may sound.
All true. Though you could argue that his inconsistency to some extent reflects the inconsistency of those around him. eg switch in Kante for Matic and Pogba gets better.
The change in the modern footballer has definitely affected Mourinho some. He's not finished by any stretch but when you hear stories of how Inter and Chelsea players would respond to his personal challenges, how they'd buy into his "Us vs The World" mentality - You quickly realise your delaing with a different type of character.
Terry, Lampard, Carvalho, Zanetti, Materazzi, Samuel etc. - These guys would have annihilated Pogba for pulling this shit. I imagine he'd have been kicked all over the training ground. I'm not sure the modern players are as receptive to Mourinho's methods. He's clearly at times laid down the gauntlet for Martial and Shaw and with previous players that may have worked superbly (hoping it still works with Shaw) - Now players feel they don't need this shit. Managers are expendable and push to move if required.
Ferguson had completely entrenched his position in a way modern managers couldn't. Even a Mourinho 15/16 season would have seen the entire first team sold before the manager's position came under threat. It's probably the type of power Mourinho craves but can never have. Ferguson was all about control - It was a dictatorship and if you pulled in another direction you were purged. Harsh, brutal but extremely effective. Not sure his methods could work in the modern game.