You could also argue that those young lads will have a more complete football education abroad and will come back to their national teams as better players
Premier League wants Brexit exemption amid fears next N'Golo Kante would be denied work permit
- Thread starter sglowrider
- Start date
Blame the uk governments for creating enclaves, not the EU
You could argue that.
By the same token, the likes of Lookman, Loftus-Cheek and Oxford have been hindered in their attempt to make those moves by their clubs.
Injuries are not fortuitous - they are a part of football which naturally occurs giving young players chances. Even when you consider LVG's tenure - he said he wanted a small squad so he could rely on young players.
Sorry but getting a break through two or more players getting injured is fortuitous. The vast majority of managers are not like LVG in that respect either so Rashford was lucky he was the manager at that time too. Mourinho probably would have stuck Fellani up top.
Okay, but do you expect that teams conciously weaken themselves in order to give youngsters a chance? It's not like City were gonna say "let's not buy Sane to give Sancho a chance although Sane is currently twice the player Sancho is" just because Sancho is English, that's not how it works. I'll repeat - if they're good enough, they will come through, just like Sancho might be doing this year at Dortmund. If another English club, could even be City, buys him back for £50m in a few years, maybe they'll start thinking about their transfer strategy a bit.
That's why Chelsea's structure actually isn't the worst, just loan them out to see if they'll be good enough in the end.
I’m just saying it works both ways. In fairness lookman has played a bit for Everton but hasn’t nailed down his place.
RLC was good enough to start for Chelsea, stupid manager
Oxford, always thought he was a little overrated imho
At the end of the day the clubs decide whether to allow them to go on loan or not but encouraging that they did want to better themselves by playing abroad
Well no they won't, which is why you would put measures in place to force the to do so, the crux of the argument?
The German side Oxford was with last season wanted him back though. But yes, I think with him some other things might be going on.
Funny thing is that Lookman can get minutes at a better side than Everton and score goals. He had a great game in the Europa before going to Germany but Alardyce continued to overlook him. He's a perfect example of what were talking about.
Are you unironically agreeing with my joke or doing a fine job of keeping the joke going? Apologies if its the latter. If the former umm.. okay..
I'm truly confused. I never argued that ALL English football fans are xenophobic so I'm not sure why that hypothetical poll is relevant. We are specifically discussing people who argue Brexit should FURTHER restrict the number of foreigners footballers in the UK (let's not pretend there aren't already restrictions with regards to the number of homegrown players and work-permits).
Furthermore, using some of your arguments as an example, I explained why some of the reasoning seemed (and IMO is) extremely frivolous and not well thought-out (refer to my previous posts). In my personal opinion, it struck me, given the weakness of the arguments, that it might be a cover for xenophobia.
Since I think you have a problem with the word "xenophobia" let me expound on that. Xenophobia is a characteristic in virtually every single culture in the world. It can be seen as a culture's survival instinct. Xenophobia is a fairly natural negative reaction to a perceived or real change in one's culture. So for the last time I'm not calling anyone racist (xenophobia != racism) or saying that these people are evil for not wanting less foreigners in English football. It's merely a potential reason, for what are IMO, frivolous arguments for restricting the amount the foreigner players EVEN FURTHER. So let's not harp on this word.
Do you genuinely believe otherwise? EU immigration to the Premier League dwarfs immigration from outside the EU so it follows that a reduction in EU immigration allows greater scope for immigration from non-EU countries.
I couldn't read the whole article as it's behind a paywall but the headline is complete nonsense. Like any country they'll always be an exemption to people who pay several times more in taxes than they consume. Only a simpleton would want to stop people who had a large net tax contribution from coming to the country... Whatever you voted in the referendum.
As a quick calculation if the UK government spends £817.5b per year and there are 18.7m families then each family costs the government just shy of £44k. Therefore it would be ludicrous to think that someone who has a long term fixed contract earning over £100k (let alone over £1m) would ever be denied entry.
In the Kante case even at Leicester he was bought for £6m... so he'd be paying the best part of 20 times that £44k in taxes.
The Premier League worrying about multi millionaires getting work permits is akin to Obama worrying whether he'll get a seat at his local restaurant after forgetting to book.
As a quick calculation if the UK government spends £817.5b per year and there are 18.7m families then each family costs the government just shy of £44k. Therefore it would be ludicrous to think that someone who has a long term fixed contract earning over £100k (let alone over £1m) would ever be denied entry.
In the Kante case even at Leicester he was bought for £6m... so he'd be paying the best part of 20 times that £44k in taxes.
The Premier League worrying about multi millionaires getting work permits is akin to Obama worrying whether he'll get a seat at his local restaurant after forgetting to book.
The majority of people that would like to see some restriction in foreign players in their domestic leagues do so because they feel in hinders the development of domestic players and as a consequence the impacts their national side. These people want to see their national side do well because they support their national side and want them to do as well as possible.
Italy’s decline has conincided with a spike in foreign players in their league. I think they’re second in Europe for % of foreign players making up their league now.
In England and Italy there are plenty of people that believe that limiting the number of foreign players would enable young domestic players to get their chance more often and thus make them more likely to fulfil their potential and augment the quality of their national sides.
If you think this is rooted in xenophobia rather people wanting the best for the team they support then fine but I think it’s a weak argument.
You might find the arguments for this as frivolous but plenty of people don’t and I for one would be interested to see what would happen.
Why would it effect Kante? He is a French international in his 4th year in England.
There are plenty of people it would effect over him surely.
There are plenty of people it would effect over him surely.
Next Kante
He was not any of that when he joined Leicester. That is why they said the next N'Golo Kante.
My bad, skim read the title haha
I see both sides of the argument; the Premier League is the greatest British export and funds the entire English football ecosystem so forcing clubs to mandatorily weaken themselves is very risky indeed. Similarly it's incredibly frustrating having such talent at England youth level being blocked by journeymen players of an ever so slightly higher present level due to the immediate pressure on managers for results or sack.
There must be some more innovative solution to quotas and permits, instead using a carrot approach to reward clubs for giving minutes to English players. God knows the Premier League have enough money to reward with.
Purely out of interest, does anyone know what top league has the highest number of Players being from the nation that league is in ? I.e. British in PL, Spanish in la liga ect
Protectionism will only make them contempt. They could play mediocrish and still commands a large salary becausr there's shortages in supply.
Imagine if united chelsea liverpool tottenham and city are forced to field 10 english player. We would be having a bidding war of 50m for joe fecking hart.
Southampton and everton would turn their football club into a feeder machine making hundreds of millions every year selling the likes of barkley and shaw, and any other half good player that's english
I can't see how it benefits the national team.
It's all rosy and noble on paper but in real world mctominay would never be pogba just because he gets to play the same minute as pogba
Imagine if united chelsea liverpool tottenham and city are forced to field 10 english player. We would be having a bidding war of 50m for joe fecking hart.
Southampton and everton would turn their football club into a feeder machine making hundreds of millions every year selling the likes of barkley and shaw, and any other half good player that's english
I can't see how it benefits the national team.
It's all rosy and noble on paper but in real world mctominay would never be pogba just because he gets to play the same minute as pogba
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Im guessing the scottish, danish, and most countries minnows would rarely import players. Other than the big 2 or 3 clubs most teams in italy are using unknown and unheard italian players.
Only in england lower table team can be filled with a collection of multinational international footballers
Dont have the details but i doubt lower table teams of german, italy or spain are filled with foreign players.
From 2017
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ercentage-of-foreign-players-8211-uefa-report
Italy 2nd in the major leagues now.
Chelsea the team from the major leagues with most foreign players
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-premier-league-top-five-europe-a7991146.html
England just went to the World Cup semis. Is that not doing well? What evidence is there that less foreign players equates to a better national team?
Correlation doesn't equal causation. Italian football's decline has also coincided with a shitty economy for last 20 years and loads of match fixing scandals (on of the biggest teams Juve was relegated for it). It's intellectually dishonest to link the spike in foreign players with its decline. Exactly what I mean by frivolous arguments.
Think of it logically, why would a larger talent pool reduce the quality of players in a said league? Perhaps I'm missing something but that doesn't make a lick of sense.
As I told you before, it's not about what people think. It's about the ability to back up these claims. IMO these claims don't even pass the weakest bit of scrutiny yet the pop up again and again. Why do people want to hold on to a belief that's not based on reality and is never backed up with any facts?
Thought experiment. If I'm explaining to someone why something doesn't make sense and this said person isn't providing any counter arguments, and just repeating the same belief, am I not justified to think they hold a dogmatic view?
Again your points are very confusing to me. You are just stating what you THINK WILL happen if the number of foreigners are restricted further without any evidence as to why it would happen. In turn, I'm explaining and giving you evidence that there is NOTHING TO SUGGEST IT WILL, but you insist that it should be tried anyways, regardless of the reasoning or the unintended consequences.
Again, what do you expect me to think? At best, its a stubborn argument (not you, the argument), which IMO could be the result of xenophobia. It's just inductive reasoning and you shouldn't feel slighted or insulted.
With the best will in the World, England were fortunate with their draw to get to the semi-finals. They played one live dog twice in Belgium and lost. And you go on about correlation and causation?!?!
I wasn't saying that it was the reason that Italy have declined, merely pointing out that a lot of people think that it plays a big part. This includes people that played for game at the highest level and managed at the highest level. People that have been developed as footballers and developed countless other footballers.
You have provided no evidence to support your argument either, just ideas that you have by the same token as me. And all this against the structural mess that modern football is, so your dogmatic position confuses me somewhat.
Not me, I am giving you the reason why some people voted who were not racists. People being told and believing that leaving the EU would create a better and safer place due to decreased immigration.
He's black ice. The most slippery and treacherous kind of ice.
This is a hard matter because it involves more than football.
I don't know how will it work for football but brexit is so bad in the "today" world. When everyone have the possibilities to travel and feel safe everywhere in Europe some countries look like going in the opposite direction.
Last year i went to the Uk and had some nice days, this year i'm going to do the same. When brexit arrives i don't know if i will go over all the hassle to do that (still waiting to see how it will work since my country and England share the longest alliance in the world)
On the football matter i think it will be hard to create that diference beetween football and allowing work permits for everyone and not allowing for all the other types of business.
I don't know how will it work for football but brexit is so bad in the "today" world. When everyone have the possibilities to travel and feel safe everywhere in Europe some countries look like going in the opposite direction.
Last year i went to the Uk and had some nice days, this year i'm going to do the same. When brexit arrives i don't know if i will go over all the hassle to do that (still waiting to see how it will work since my country and England share the longest alliance in the world)
On the football matter i think it will be hard to create that diference beetween football and allowing work permits for everyone and not allowing for all the other types of business.
It wouldn't be that hard I'm guessing. With the vast sums even young player's earn, making an exemption based on high tax contribution could be done?
The latest version of Football Manager has the scenario based on a points system for signing non-UK players. I believe points are awarded for both club and national team appearances, with a weighting given to both dependent on ranking.
In the Sunderland game I played, it was very difficult to buy young foreign talent on the cheap. Although much easier to buy older, non EU players from the top 30 or so FIFA nations.
Personally, I don't see why the Home Office are getting so involved in the work permit system. I understand the need to prevent a scenario of lower league clubs signing low-wage players who are dependent on the state for a basic standard of living, e.g. a 200 quid a week player, who needs a range of benefits, support and subsidies for himself and his family. However, when we have players earning over 100k a year, I don't see why the home office should be bothered- this is going to be a benefit from purely an economic perspective.
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And some of those people are notorious for being racists. Sacchi being the prime example.
Clearly not when over half the league isn't Italian.
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I'm gonna stop watching PL football next season 
NBA is probably the next best product anyway
NBA is probably the next best product anyway
Brexit is Brexit. It's what the people voted for and this type of thing could be used as some kinda emotional blackmail. Maybe we will lose a talent here and there but then again maybe it will give more home grown talent an opportunity and maybe some of these owners who ruin the game with their carefree spending will vanish. We can only hope because if a club like United cannot properly compete and talks of value - then our leagues going to become less and less competitive anyway. The big point however, is that there are bigger issues then football. Much bigger.
These articles will be all drama while ignoring how much money has been injected into City - for example, which means competition will be harder. But yeah, football isn't the be all and end all. They took football from the working class and it's now bigger but not automatically better. When it is used politically...then its overstepped its function.
These articles will be all drama while ignoring how much money has been injected into City - for example, which means competition will be harder. But yeah, football isn't the be all and end all. They took football from the working class and it's now bigger but not automatically better. When it is used politically...then its overstepped its function.
There is two separate issues here.
There is the leagues rules on home grown players, and the governments rules on work permits.
After brexit, the league could decide to discourage the club's from stockpiling players by limiting the number of non homegrown players. Or they could limit the number of non-gb players as leagues like Spain used to. Or they could do nothing.
Under the current work permit rules, players brought from outside the EU are meant to be regulars for the national teams. If that rule had applied to EU players, it would have stopped us signing Ronaldo, stopped Arsenal signing Fabregas and so on.
If the government don't loosen that rule (and actually it's applied quite intermittently) then the premier league's powers probsblp would wane over time as the best young players go to spain
There is the leagues rules on home grown players, and the governments rules on work permits.
After brexit, the league could decide to discourage the club's from stockpiling players by limiting the number of non homegrown players. Or they could limit the number of non-gb players as leagues like Spain used to. Or they could do nothing.
Under the current work permit rules, players brought from outside the EU are meant to be regulars for the national teams. If that rule had applied to EU players, it would have stopped us signing Ronaldo, stopped Arsenal signing Fabregas and so on.
If the government don't loosen that rule (and actually it's applied quite intermittently) then the premier league's powers probsblp would wane over time as the best young players go to spain
Don't vote for it if you know there are gonna be problem. They are getting something though, otherwise the Premier League would become a very poor league.
It would have stopped them from being signed as very young players. There's still every chance they could have been signed once they were established.
Neither Ferguson nor Wenger would have shelled out once that happened. See Hazard, etc.