But on a serious note, he is a rare combination of world class ability on the ball in terms of both passing, movement and dribbling and excellent defensive nous which would rank very highly among holding midfielders. In terms of achievement he was the heartbeat of a Madrid team that wasn't as talented otherwise as their future galacticos versions and propelled them to 2 CLs in 3 years, that too in a very competent era. Singlehandedly dominated the treble winning of Scholes and prime Roy Keane. There are quite a few of those on youtube (I'll have to search through my subscriptions as there's just too many Redondo videos in the general search)
I actually agree, despite the fact that one of those misuses was, obviously, our recent Pep's side. But, to be fair, it was an experiment and we needed someone quite unique for that role, who was a fantastic passer of the ball as well as a great defensive presence and was direct in his approach unlike, say, Busquets.
I do rate him but just not as highly as others. Gerson would be another one for instance as I think his 1970 WC performances are somewhat overrated.
Maybe it's his NT career that doesn't stack up with others, had that poor performance vs Romania and in 98 had a manager who excluded him because he didn't cut his hair. That was a great Argentina team and he was at his peak as well and could have gone all the way.
Or perhaps that his career was cut short due to injuries.
One of you needs to do a compilation on him, will be a great watch.
Ya, was just curious why as his body of work and ability is right up there for me.
Agree with these. Would like to see someone sell Schnellinger though to prove he's better than what I've seen suggests. I don't remember Redondo being as highly rated in the 1990s and early 2000s. Always seen as class, but not a notch above the other CMs of the era where he seems to have gravitated towards, online at least.
To be fair to Bati/Baresi, the latter pretty much shut him out continuously for several years until Batistuta finally got the better of him when he was a greying and doddery old man.
A particular Scot who had just won the treble a few months ago remarked about him having magnets in his boots. Not bad.
Its not really underrating Jairzinho though, I think the tiers you have assigned them are fair.
The Modric comparison is a good one - don't think he is seen as on Redondo's level, albeit he's still writing his story.A particular Scot who had just won the treble a few months ago remarked about him having magnets in his boots. Not bad.
The best comparison for me would be Modric. Madrid would be at least -5 CL without these two, and Modric had far better team around him.
Serie A was the best league in late 90s and La Liga, especially Madrid, wasn't going through a great phase yet you had Madrid win 2 CLs in 3 years during that era. Taking that Madrid team to those wins is a fantastic achievement for me.
Also, people rave about how Laudrup starred in Barca beating Real 5-0 in 93/94, and then he switched to Madrid and reversed the score, while forgetting that Madrid bought Redondo in the same season as well.
Agreed. Gone from over to under. I used to be one of the most vocal at emphasising how he wasn't as consistent in the domestic game as a few other stars of the era. But when that gets used against him relative to players from this era, who play for teams amassing 90-100 points a season in an uncompetitive domestic environment, it wears a little thin.
Why do you not rate Sammer and Godin as highly or think they are overrated by others?
Will reply to this later in detail when I get more time.
Yeah there was one poster who said he is better than Santamaria. I am not even sure if Godin is better than Vidic, whose reputation seems to be at an All-Time low after all those imaginery beatings he took from the likes of Ronaldo and Romario.
Sammer's peak was way too short. 1995-97. He was a not a defender before that and was injured after that. Having watched the CL and Euro highlights, I just don't think he was as influential as in running the game as many seem to think. He had a knack for running up and scoring goals, but did they dominate the game or were clearly the stronger team, I think no. He certainly made an impact no doubt, but was it worth a Balon d'Or? Was he really the heir to Beckenbauer? I don't think his lack of longevity does not lets us make a informed decision.
True but still one great performance against a defender doesn't tend to hold that much weight in a discussion with the exception of Ronaldo it seems
He has humiliated almost every top defender of that era, an era of GOAT defenders. Hardly a one off.
It was a close one though. Going by their categories (goals, free kicks, legacy etc.), Zidane had been better, but that really depends on which categories you use for comparison. I obviously don't have anything against those who choose Zidane over Platini, it's a fair opinion as it's a very close one.
Yes ! he'll be mine most overrated defensive midfielder as well. Not that he was not good as a purely defensive midfielder but he almost provide nothing in any other phase of the game other than pure defending almost playing as a third CB. It bothers me to no end when anybody prefers him over more rounded DMs like Tardelli, Tigana or Keane.
History will forget that — but Vidić will still be a P&G draft winner
History will forget that — but Vidić will still be a P&G draft winner
Tbh it was my fault as well when I talked him down massively in your match against Tuppet, because I rate Koscis very very high. Next in line after van Basten high that is.How is Uwe Bein rated in Germany?. He looks an absolutely world class creative player from what i've seen of him, maybe the most impressive German passer after Netzer but reputation wise seems quite obscure. I get the impression he was a bit unlucky with the injury at WC90 and then not fitting into Vogts tactical ideas much afterward?
I’d vouch for that. Take any random sample of footage of Santamaria or Godin and it’s the former who is most likely to be at fault for goals conceded. Other factors to consider in terms of overall influence, but only one winner I can see in defensive nous and organisational ability.Yeah there was one poster who said he is better than Santamaria. I am not even sure if Godin is better than Vidic, whose reputation seems to be at an All-Time low after all those imaginery beatings he took from the likes of Ronaldo and Romario.
His reputation is obscure because in Germany there are two types of legends. National team legends, adored all over Germany and remembered for decades. The other type are club legends, who are only celebrated / remembered by the fans of the clubs and have little nationwide stardom. There are like zero players who only ever shined for their club and are appreciated everywhere, like Henry is a big star all over England or how rival fans think highly of Scholes despite his relative failure with England. This has to do with the little amount of foreign star players playing in Germany and with the cultural importance and the success of the national team.
Aye, I ended up watching bits and pieces of him when making some GIFs of Andreas Moller's earlier career and I was impressed. On a similar vein, how is Heinz Flohe rated in Germany @Don Alfredo ? He looked brilliant from what I've seen, although I was biased towards him immediately after reading his unfortunate life story.
I'd second that also. I've been underwhelmed by Santamaria from what I've watched.
Agreed. Marcelo is just a poor man's Roberto Carlos.
Carlos was miles better defensively. Marcelo is a complete liability at the back.
They are totally different players in terms of playing style.
I'll have to add that defending in the W-M of the 50's was much harder than defending in a modern 4-4-2 though. You don't have any cover, every mistake, even a little one, leads to a goalscoring chance. Yet the likes of Santamaria and Wright still managed to stood out.
