[tentan]

Embarrassing. Derby deserved to win. They were the much better side.

 

[RedSky]

ONCE AGAIN, the trio of Jones, Young and Smalling has cost us.

Tonight it was Jones. Next time it’ll be Smalling... or Young. Maybe both.

The fact of the matter is this... We will never win anything as long as these three are regulars for us. They are brain dead footballers and that’s the nicest way I can put it. As soon as I see their names on the team sheet, I know there’s a chance we’ll concede goals. It doesn’t matter who we’re playing, doesn’t matter if it’s some League 2 side. They’re not good enough for this level. And everyone knows that deep down.

For a club as big as Manchester United, we should have the best defenders in the league if not the world. And yet here we are, in 2018 trying to convince ourselves the likes of Smalling, Jones and Young are United quality.

Absolutely unbelievable. I knew Jones would miss that penalty. It was all leading up to that moment. I could see the scene playing out in my head before it even happened. You see, everyone else who scored their penalty is actually a decent footballer. Phil Jones on the other hand is not.

We will never improve as a side until we get rid of this problem. And I have to laugh at people blaming Mourinho for this. I suppose you lot think Zidane could just walk in here and wave his magic wand around and all of a sudden Smalling, Jones and Young will become Ramos, Varane and Marcelo. And Herrera will become Modric and Martial will become Ronaldo and Lingard will be like Bale.

That’s the fantasy world you lot are living in. Nobody is winning feck all with this group of players. And nobody is certainly finishing above 2nd with them. Mourinho wanted Alderweireld, he wanted Sandro, he wanted Perisic, he wanted Savic. The board said no and here we are. There’s nobody to blame for this except the board and the talentless bunch of pretenders we’re working with.

Not sure why you mention Smalling. He's our 3rd highest goalscorer in the league in 2018. He's one of our most consistent players, he'd get far more praise if he had competent players around him.

As for Jose, he's had what... 5 transfer windows with a huge budget to turn this around. Heck, look at his transfers and name me one player that has been successful. I'd cautiously say Lukaku and thats about it. Pogba is quality but has severe baggage and the rest have been mediocre to terrible.

 

[WR10]

Great testimonial for Jones

 

[Hughie77]

Pay the man off, get rid now, Derby deserved there win, but anybody would have beaten us. Look out Sat morn West ham away draw or loss coming up top 10 finish at best, pogba goes, ddg leaves, and Sanchez gets pay rise... hopeless

 

[99withaflake]

It’s official we’re in a big time crisis & in the lowest point of the history of Manchester United.

It's not the lowest point in the history of Manchester United. It's unbelievably disrespectful to say that.

 

[Fracture90]

The sad part is that we got outplayed by a championship side that looked far more cohesive and far more like a team under a manager that has under 10 games in his managerial career.

 

[Dolf]

I went to bed after the first half. 1-0 up, Martial playing like a GOAT and everything looked fine.
Then I wake up to this...!?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I went to bed after the first half. 1-0 up, Martial playing like a GOAT and everything looked fine.
Then I wake up to this...!?

I would love to know what happens at half-time. We go downhill time and time again.

 

[buckooo1978]

I went to bed after the first half. 1-0 up, Martial playing like a GOAT and everything looked fine.
Then I wake up to this...!?

so its your fault. why couldn't you stay awake another 45 mins

 

[Name Changed]

Derby deserved to win. Outplayed us at home. And we had a good team out.

 

[Marcky411]

We were outplayed, out thought and now the student has just made a fool of the master. Last nights performance says it all and this time it cannot be blamed on Pogba. We all knew the day Mourinho walked through OT's doors this was going to happen, the 3 year syndrome.
It is as clear as daylight, his tactics don't work, far to outdated and that the players don't believe in the manager's way anymore. Our football is completely dire to watch and if we were winning games it would be a bit easier to accept but at the moment we aren't and I expect it to only get worse. Yesterday was another example that it doesn't matter who is put out there on the field, the football is the same, we seem to have a second half syndrome, would love to know what he tells the players at halftime. Last night we only seemed to started playing once we went down to 10 men. Also this feud with Jose and Pogba is really starting to get out of hand, we are really becoming the laughing stock of the PL and what even makes it worse is when fans from other clubs start to sympathize with you instead of the usual hate and banter.

All I would like to know is how far UTD are going to let the situation worsen before they step in and sack Jose.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

The sad part is that we got outplayed by a championship side that looked far more cohesive and far more like a team under a manager that has under 10 games in his managerial career.

Yeah, let’s blame woodward for this!

 

[Fracture90]

Yeah, let’s blame woodward for this!

Nah it gotta be #Pogblame!

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

I also hope this inept manager will never get hired by a top club again. Seriously think he retires after the money he will have managed to steal from us

 

[ants7]

Decent home debut for Dalot. Can't remember the last time we scored a goal from a cross coming from RW.
Martial/Lukaku looks to have more potential of creating something rather than Alexis/Lukaku. Martial must start ahead of Alexis for the next game.

Other than that, Jose/Manchester United combination is done (has been for a while tbf). It'll be a long season for us.

 

[manichester]

We score, back off allow the other team to regroup and boss the game. Lose a goal and then try to get going again. Same old story. What do we do in training sessions, there is little understanding or talking between the players 2 years of Jose and he can't get half our team to make five yard passes.

 

[Ish]

All I would like to know is how far UTD are going to let the situation worsen before they step in and sack Jose.

I'd safely assume once it becomes mathematically impossible to qualify for top 4 - probably done to save us a couple of million in payout? (I'd assume anyway). Not the most logical way to do it - especially if a change at the top can still have us pushing for a top 4 spot, which would more than make up for the lost "payout".

So yeah, we could be in for a long, hard season.

Anyway, this is all assumptions anyway - we could well still end up in the top 4 this season (here's hoping that the Gunners and Spurs (and Watford & whoever else! ) bottle it more than us.

 

[Farfetched]

Our problem lies in the fact that we play zonal passing, we pass into a zone irrespective of whether there is a player in that zone or not!

 

[Betson]

Derby were the better team and deserved the win , we knew we had a poor squad of players overall and last night was just another illustration of that. It was no real shock.

 

[Bilbo]

I don't think its wrong to say that Derby deserved the win - it might be a stretch to say that we were outplayed but it wasn't too far away from it.

Once again United resemble a group of players that have lead weights in their boots. Everything is slow and over-complicated. None of the players look like they are enjoying it or want to be there. Little to no imagination in the final third.

I'm not convinced that this is Mourinho's fault, but something has to change and it has to be soon. This squad of players won't ever behave how he needs them to whether its his fault or not, and it will take another 3 windows and a lot of money to rebuild the squad. Unfortunately its time for us to replace him

 

[Kapardin]

Got schooled by his student Lampard, ffs. This one would rankle in Mourinho's mind.

Derby actually played better attacking football than us. So for those saying we need signings, how do Bielsa and Lampard make Championship players play more attractively than us?

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I also hope this inept manager will never get hired by a top club again. Seriously think he retires after the money he will have managed to steal from us

He is done after this. Probably have to take the Portugal NT job alot earlier than he would of liked, Unless Mendes can talk him into managing Wolves or something once a good team takes Santo from them.

 

[daveoliver91]

Thank god I missed that one. Gutted with the team, manager, etc..
Credit to Derby & Frankie!

 

[Coxy]

I don't think its wrong to say that Derby deserved the win - it might be a stretch to say that we were outplayed but it wasn't too far away from it.

Once again United resemble a group of players that have lead weights in their boots. Everything is slow and over-complicated. None of the players look like they are enjoying it or want to be there. Little to no imagination in the final third.

I'm not convinced that this is Mourinho's fault, but something has to change and it has to be soon. This squad of players won't ever behave how he needs them to whether its his fault or not, and it will take another 3 windows and a lot of money to rebuild the squad. Unfortunately its time for us to replace him

How is it not? With the players at his disposal - we should be doing better. The personnel we have are good enough to beat the teams we've lost to recently. Whether the players don't believe in the manager, whether they're not suited to the tactics, or whether we just don't play nice attacking football. something is seriously wrong.

 

[Craig Ward]

Another poor night for us.

Another drab display of poor football, littered with individual errors and sadly another display where we are outplayed, outfought and showed little to no character.

I have never been a fan of Jose's appointment and given his history he was always going to be a 2-3 season manager whose reign ends in some sort of controversy or turmoil BUT I don't think this is all on the manager.

Jose pointed out in his pre match notes that the attitude needs to be better from the players and he is spot on. The players are not working for the shirt, for the club, for each other or for the manager.

Its a difficult time. The club cannot back the players over the manager for me, but the club have shown no willingness to back jose over transfers in the last window so it is a catch 22 situation.

This trend of Jose slating the players and these type of performances cannot continue. We are not in crisis, but we have a group of players who are not putting they're all in. Some performances and lack of effort are beyond defence for me

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Another poor night for us.

Another drab display of poor football, littered with individual errors and sadly another display where we are outplayed, outfought and showed little to no character.

I have never been a fan of Jose's appointment and given his history he was always going to be a 2-3 season manager whose reign ends in some sort of controversy or turmoil BUT I don't think this is all on the manager.

Jose pointed out in his pre match notes that the attitude needs to be better from the players and he is spot on. The players are not working for the shirt, for the club, for each other or for the manager.

Its a difficult time. The club cannot back the players over the manager for me, but the club have shown no willingness to back jose over transfers in the last window so it is a catch 22 situation.

This trend of Jose slating the players and these type of performances cannot continue. We are not in crisis, but we have a group of players who are not putting they're all in. Some performances and lack of effort are beyond defence for me

I agree with what you are saying, but I think fans are maybe going to accept that any manager we have could be on a relatively short term basis, 3-4 years. We are going to have to move with the times and stop longing for the old days.

 

[Matt007a]

Disappointing performance again last night. It all started so well, but soon fell apart. If Derby had done a smash and grab, then you could at least argue they were lucky, but the truth is they outplayed us for large portions of the game and fully deserved to go through.

Their youngsters played with such confidence and freedom compared to ours. Wilson and Mount were head and shoulders above our players, despite their age.

This has to come from the manager giving them that confidence that they can go out on the pitch and express themselves, even at Old Trafford. Our players on the other hand have no such freedom. It's all so rigid and static with no one taking risks or trying something a bit different.

Lukaku did an ok job of holding the ball up by his standards, with his very unreliable first touch. However when he holds it, the only player running beyond him is Lingard. Martial wants to drop short all the time, almost like he's scared of being caught out of position defensively and getting subbed off by Jose, while Mata could have a 10 yard start on the left back and still not get in behind him.

We've been saying for the last 5 years that we play too slowly and too safe, yet 3 managers have all failed to address the problem. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but I get the feeling a lot of our players live in total fear of doing something wrong and losing the ball. Do you think Ferguson, Guardiola or Klopp would drop their players for trying and failing a risky pass/run? If anything they're encouraged to take risks, as is evident by the way their teams play in the final two thirds. Jose doesn't seem to like players doing this, he just drops them for his safe players who don't make mistakes.

The entire culture of the club needs to change and I'm afraid the only way that happens is with new leadership. Mourinho is one of the best managers the game has ever seen, but his time seems to have come and gone. He's not adapted to the way football has changed in the last 5 years like his opposing managers have. Perhaps it is stubbornness and the chip on his shoulder that tells him he has to win with his old style to prove everyone wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should be challenging Man City this season because honestly we are not on their level man for man, but there is a way of winning and losing matches. When you come to Manchester United, the values of the club stipulate that you have to try and outscore the opposition week in week out. If that means winning 4-3 instead of 1-0 then so be it. Mourinho has never and will never have this opinion about football.

 

[Rash Decision]

Derby were the better team and deserved the win , we knew we had a poor squad of players overall and last night was just another illustration of that. It was no real shock.

Uh are you saying Derby's players are better than ours?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Uh are you saying Derby's players are better than ours?

Coaching and motivation are a great thing. They are in The Championship for a reason, but he got them playing as a unit and they played with confidence.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Disappointing performance again last night. It all started so well, but soon fell apart. If Derby had done a smash and grab, then you could at least argue they were lucky, but the truth is they outplayed us for large portions of the game and fully deserved to go through.

Their youngsters played with such confidence and freedom compared to ours. Wilson and Mount were head and shoulders above our players, despite their age.

This has to come from the manager giving them that confidence that they can go out on the pitch and express themselves, even at Old Trafford. Our players on the other hand have no such freedom. It's all so rigid and static with no one taking risks or trying something a bit different.

Lukaku did an ok job of holding the ball up by his standards, with his very unreliable first touch. However when he holds it, the only player running beyond him is Lingard. Martial wants to drop short all the time, almost like he's scared of being caught out of position defensively and getting subbed off by Jose, while Mata could have a 10 yard start on the left back and still not get in behind him.

We've been saying for the last 5 years that we play too slowly and too safe, yet 3 managers have all failed to address the problem. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but I get the feeling a lot of our players live in total fear of doing something wrong and losing the ball. Do you think Ferguson, Guardiola or Klopp would drop their players for trying and failing a risky pass/run? If anything they're encouraged to take risks, as is evident by the way their teams play in the final two thirds. Jose doesn't seem to like players doing this, he just drops them for his safe players who don't make mistakes.

The entire culture of the club needs to change and I'm afraid the only way that happens is with new leadership. Mourinho is one of the best managers the game has ever seen, but his time seems to have come and gone. He's not adapted to the way football has changed in the last 5 years like his opposing managers have. Perhaps it is stubbornness and the chip on his shoulder that tells him he has to win with his old style to prove everyone wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should be challenging Man City this season because honestly we are not on their level man for man, but there is a way of winning and losing matches. When you come to Manchester United, the values of the club stipulate that you have to try and outscore the opposition week in week out. If that means winning 4-3 instead of 1-0 then so be it. Mourinho has never and will never have this opinion about football.

The more I think about it, the more it feels like it's the combination of Van Gaal and Mourinho as consecutive managers that has completely wrecked our players mentality.

Both of them are control freaks, who try to micro-manage everything the players do on the pitch. From Van Gaal telling Rooney precisely where he should shoot, or demanding strikers always take a touch before shooting, to Mourinho going to the press to crucify players who make a defensive error. It's corrosive, soul-destroying stuff which will inevitably get rid of any hint of spontaneity or self-expression in our team. The perfect storm of managerial conservatism. At a club that is famous for exciting, free-flowing football. It's insane that we've ended up in this position but not entirely unexpected when you consider who we've hired as managers.

 

[Offside]

Did it go straight to penalties after the 90mins then?

 

[RedMilo]

Went to game last night, didn't post on RedCafe when I got back because I was too upset. My mums side of the family are all Derby fans so Im getting dogs abuse since last night.
I backed Mourinho after the Spurs game because I saw something in that first half against Spurs that I hadn't seen in a while, attacking with purpose. Since then I have to say I have seen nothing that suggests we are going to build on that. Fed up of hearing about Pogba & Mourinho now, ego & toxic springs to mind, they both have their own agenda and wont put the club first, so I want the club to feck them both off, we need to go back to the drawing board unfortunately. A cohesive plan and vision have been missing since SAF retired.
Don't give me Zidane bollocks, he cant speak English for a start. We want someone that is going to lead us on a journey, its going to be rough at times, but its ultimately going to be a journey for the long term that gets us back to where we belong, Mourinho is not that bloke

 

[Craig Ward]

I agree with what you are saying, but I think fans are maybe going to accept that any manager we have could be on a relatively short term basis, 3-4 years. We are going to have to move with the times and stop longing for the old days.

I'm a realist, I'm aware managers shelf lives are short term these days.

What I mean by jose is he has 2-3 seasons, brings short term success and then leaves the club in some sort of controversy. He'll leave almost certainly at the end of the season if not before and look at the mess he is leaving.

Our squad is a mess

 

[oLeSoLsKjAeR20]

Did it go straight to penalties after the 90mins then?

Yes

 

[Ashley R1+O]

The dervishes of drivel that are pouring out of some on here, my god. Embarrassing.

Shocking stuff a championship side with no fear comes to Old Trafford and beats us in a competition nobody in this squad looks like they want to be in. Couldn't have seen that one coming!
(Hang on, lets quickly cut to Pogba in the box sitting around in all white looking like a prannet.)

There is about three players that look like they want to be at the club, not really sure it requires the meltdown from some. Lets bin the rest and start again with guys who actually want to be here and take some responsibility for the 90mins on a football pitch.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I'm a realist, I'm aware managers shelf lives are short term these days.

What I mean by jose is he has 2-3 seasons, brings short term success and then leaves the club in some sort of controversy. He'll leave almost certainly at the end of the season if not before and look at the mess he is leaving.

Our squad is a mess

Yes. He does. He wins things but when he goes there is no long term plan in place. So the next manager is basically starting from scratch with regards to style. I actually think, it has been mentioned by someone else, that it would be a good idea to just get someone in, let them use this season to assess and get the style up and running, then be ready for next season.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

Finally seen the highlights.
Romero,minor his red-card offence,and Grant looked good. Dalot has a wicked cross on him which is refreshing and Martial look abit more promising.How Lukaku missed that first effort from Martial's cross is anyones guess.
Other than that we looked nervous ,clearly lacking confidence and structure.

 

[Offsideagain]

Too many players just cruising, living off previous seasons performances. It’s clear they are confused, leaderless and struggling. The Manager has no authority it would seem. I know harking back to SAF is pointless, but he would have give them such a bollocking after the Wolves shambles that it would have woken a few of them up.

At this rate we will win bugger all and finish tenth unless someone bangs a few heads together.

 

[Faetheshire86]

Fell asleep half way through the second half. Was in no way indicative of the performance from Derby

 

[minoo-utd]

Solid logic

Spoiler

No one compares to him. Are you serious? Plus we bought him at times we were ready to wait it was SAF policy and most of times it worked. SAF you remember him! He knew what he wanted and when we waited on someone we kept on challenging always. These times are different though, we need ready players to help the team back to challenge.