As many have pointed out, he was well aware they'd be cameras on the training ground, it's contractual or something.Eh? Since when was it a 'fact' that Mourinho deliberately pulled the stunt in training?! Don't lecture me on making assumptions if you're going to do exactly the same in the next sentence.
For me, I was very excited when Mou got appointed. I thought SAF had his snarky and ruthless moments, here is a guy who can repeat the successful formula. I thought last year was acceptable because it showed progress but a lot of what he brought in terms of baggage really grated on me but results justified the means.Even if we finish 6th and zero trophies, they will argue that a) the squad isn't good enough and Mourinho squeezed as much as he could out of them the year before and it is Woodward's fault for not providing funds b) Pogba for poisoning the squad, and if we sell him - the team will get back on track c) the fanbase fault, for not fully supporting the manager and creating a negative climate.
There is just no way out for the 'loyalists'. Mourinho is simply infallible.
Just imagine the meltdown after seeing Mou sacked, reading thousands of posts regarding Zizu, just to wake up to the news of having Wenger at OT. Too much for anyone's heartWenger in !
Iirc SAF wanted him to stay so much he even tasked Evra with persuading him to stay. Alas fat rat manager had his fangs too deep by that point.Er, I think it's clear from Fergie's comments at the time that him and Pogba were not on good terms when he left - I'm not making anything up.
I know, right! How many times has he done this and yet we act surprised and even have some quarters excusing him doing the same things he's always done.Bit weird that Jose has a habit of alienating the best players he's managing, isn't it.
I think he is mostly thinking about himself and how he can improve his own situation. But the same can be said about 95% of todays footballplayers.Which, to some extent at least, goes to show that Pogba does indeed care about the future of the club. The way he has handled the whole situation - airing the clubs dirty laundry in public - is awful though.
What did Zidane say, and what other examples do you have to give?There's plenty of top tier managers taking responsibility after poor performance, look no further than Zidane for example.
Yeah it worked lovely, that's why we're falling apart and majority of fanbase wants him out?
Let's cut the bs, just tell me one thing.
In your opinion has Mourinho done anything bad since he was appointed as UTDS manager?
My problem with Pogba is his consistency, application and attitude. He doesn't have the consistency to warrant the things he says or does. I don't enjoy seeing him on social media all the time acting like a twat when he plays like piss or uploading shit during a game we end up losing in.Ok, so then how did Pogba disrespect the club? He hasn't had a go at the fans. He's stated to the media that he loves United. How did he disrespect the club? If you can hand wage the PSG non sense from Mou with that, surely you should do the same with the Barca business? If that cnut Raiola disrespecting Scholes is disrespecting the club, Mou himself disrespecting Scholes is also disrespecting the club.
By what measure did Pogba disrespect the club, but not Mourinho?
Because one such positive does not exist. Believe me, I've been searching high and wide for a single positive aspect in Jose Mourinho remaining manager of our club and I am completely at a loss in discovering one.I'm genuinely not here to point out positives in keeping Mourinho at the club - I'm commenting solely on people who are absolving Pogba of blame in order to place the blame entirely at the door of Mourinho.
No need to be rude.Feck me - are you being deliberately dim? It wasn't the fact that he had a bit of a joke with his mates - it is the fact that he posted it, knowing exactly how it would be reported and not giving a shit.
He took responsibility for Madrid's poor results dude…What did Zidane say, and what other examples do you have to give?
Man Utd is a global brand. The majority of the "fans" know feck all about the club because the reach in support is so deep. What matters to me are the fans that get to the stadiums and they don't sound divided at all.
Yes re. Things Jose has done wrong:
-I think Mourinho should not have bought Pogba (I made a thread when he signed before he kicked a ball)
- he shouldn't have approached sevilla so cautiously like he did.
- he shouldn't be changing his defensive partnerships so often.
- he shouldn't be as depressing by way of his demeanor in interviews. What he says may be correct for the most part but not everything. I don't think he's said enough bad things to turn vital fans against him and get sacked though.
Oh come on It's fecking september, what a ludicrous thing to say.That won't cut the mustard I'm afraid.
Woody tightening the purse strings might be true of the transfer window just gone, prior to that Jose had spent in excess of £400 million on player acquisitions. The only other manager in the country to rival such a figure was Klopp, whilst Pep trumped it by a considerable distance.
Jose has run out of excuses and so have his supporters.
OK let us make some sort of a comparison then.I'm genuinely not here to point out positives in keeping Mourinho at the club - I'm commenting solely on people who are absolving Pogba of blame in order to place the blame entirely at the door of Mourinho.
Cool, well you're in the right place to discuss that! ;-)Because one such positive does not exist. Believe me, I've been searching high and wide for a single positive aspect in Jose Mourinho remaining manager of our club and I am completely at a loss in discovering one.
I might not be the brightest spark in the human race, but I'd like to think my brain could come up with something. Apparently not.
That's kind of the problem but whatever.Oh come on It's fecking september, what a ludicrous thing to say.
Has anyone on here actually said that if in December we're in the same position that we wouldn't be more damning? No
We just think you're all hysterical given its september and we only just finished 2nd. Get a grip and come back when enough games have actually passed for a judgement
why the desire to conflate the two? I've already said that I have no desire to enter into a debate about Mourinho - I only entered this thread cos people were absolving Pogba of blame in order to lay it all at Mourinho's feet. You knock yourself out if you want to write about why you think Mourinho should be given the boot too.OK let us make some sort of a comparison then.
So far we had 2 people currently employed at the club that have history of disrespecting the club. Mourinho and arguably Pogba.
In your opinion, which of the 2 has disrespected the club more with his deeds and words?
Same. Nothing wrong with wanting Jose in charge in the first place as he 'was' a great manager. I openly admit I too wanted him. We got it wrong, it happens (though Ed has got it wrong 3 times on the trot)...but continued support at the expense of the well-being of the club - how is that being a proper supporter, or putting the club first. Staying loyal to a manager to the death has become a dick-swinging contest.. any sign of discontent is seen as a opportunity to talk down to people and produce a super-group of 'sane' fans who aren't hysterical (Sort of idiots who when there house is on fire, would turn on the heating and sit back with a cuppa). Now they are being exposed for a) being utterly unreasonable and irrational with their views - avoiding any confrontation with concrete evidence at all costs b) not really knowing that much about the game...'coaching...what coaching' - 'feck off with the fancy coaching malarky' 'what we need is graft' c) unable to handle the fact that they're being ridiculed and are as bad as the Van Gaalends we saw remain loyal at the end of his miserable reign... thus sniping about the fact that how dare 'loyal' fans of the club be criticized - modern football is so terrible that it has come to such a situation.For me, I was very excited when Mou got appointed. I thought SAF had his snarky and ruthless moments, here is a guy who can repeat the successful formula. I thought last year was acceptable because it showed progress but a lot of what he brought in terms of baggage really grated on me but results justified the means.
This year is year 3, a crunch year by any metric. I just can’t see Mou turning the ship around but at the same time I don’t think he will be sacked this year barring a major implosion. That is why I asked the question to the Mou supporters why would be a good season for them and if Mou doesn’t get there, how they can still support him.
We're already out of the title race (if we are assuming Jose will stay) and out of the league cup. Only thing we could have a realistic shot in is the FA Cup and even that looks unlikely with the current morale in the squad.Oh come on It's fecking september, what a ludicrous thing to say.
By the looks of the Caf posts - I'd say at least 90% of those who want Mourinho to feck off have admitted they wanted him in (including myself). We were desperate for success above everything else - that's fine. No need to stick our heads in the sand about how things really are.Same. Nothing wrong with wanting Jose in charge in the first place as he 'was' a great manager. I openly admit I too wanted him. We got it wrong, it happens (though Ed has got it wrong 3 times on the trot)...but continued support at the expense of the well-being of the club - how is that being a proper supporter, or putting the club first. Staying loyal to a manager to the death has become a dick-swinging contest.. any sign of discontent is seen as a opportunity to talk down to people and produce a super-group of 'sane' fans who aren't hysterical (Sort of idiots who when there house is on fire, would turn on the heating and sit back with a cuppa). Now they are being exposed for a) being utterly unreasonable and irrational with their views - avoiding any confrontation with concrete evidence at all costs b) not really knowing that much about the game...'coaching...what coaching' - 'feck off with the fancy coaching malarky' 'what we need is graft' c) unable to handle the fact that they're being ridiculed and are as bad as the Van Gaalends we saw remain loyal at the end of his miserable reign... thus sniping about the fact that how dare 'loyal' fans of the club be criticized - modern football is so terrible that it has come to such a situation.
Another thing... if 'peak' Mourinho was in charge of this club, with the amount of backing he has had.. we would win the title last year and we would be serious CL contenders. He was a great manager (he was also much more of a coach than he is now with much more enthusiasm and attention to detail), he will go down a football legend. He's just not the same guy anymore.By the looks of the Caf posts - I'd say at least 90% of those who want Mourinho to feck off have admitted they wanted him in (including myself). We were desperate for success above everything else - that's fine. No need to stick our heads in the sand about how things really are.
Mourinho accepted blame to the players though, which is what really matters. It was well documented he did.He took responsibility for Madrid's poor results dude…
TopRed shiit I won't bother commenting on.
Can you give a bit more info on that last part you stated, the interview part. Which parts, what was it that he has said that you find to be bad?
Because we have people defending Mourinho and downplaying everything bad he's done and since majority thinks he's repeated offender we're trying to establish some criteria on which to judge them both.why the desire to conflate the two? I've already said that I have no desire to enter into a debate about Mourinho - I only entered this thread cos people were absolving Pogba of blame in order to lay it all at Mourinho's feet. You knock yourself out if you want to write about why you think Mourinho should be given the boot too.
I'm actually not trying to be a dick here but how do you think that's going to happen if it hasn't already happened in the last two previous seasons? Other top managers don't seem to have this issue. Even Van Gaal had a clear objective (painful as it was to watch).3 things I want to see for Jose to stay past this season:
1) Lead by example and take accountability - Ultimately if the players aren't up for it and don't show the effort or passion it's Jose fault. What's he paid for? What's his job? I don't anyone expects Jose to be perfect, and at times it's ok to take the blame when you get it wrong. It's not necessary to blame a player or two every time a result doesn't go our way, or act oblivious to what we can all clearly see is a problem.
2) Attack, Attack, Attack - I'm not expecting a Jose team to ever play similar to Pep or Klopp, but what I would like to see is some kind of attacking plan that defines Jose's Manchester United. If we're a counter attacking team then let's master the counter attack. Because at the moment we don't seem to have a plan going forward, outside of relying on individual brilliance.
3) Culture - Fix it! Stop adding fuel to the fire and creating this toxic cloud over the club. There's plenty of blame to go around with this one but as the manager your job is to fix the problem and keep them internalized, present a united front. There's no need to air your dirty laundry and utilize the media to get a message across to players.
Jose will more than likely be here this entire season. IMO the 3 things mentioned along with results (top 4, CL QF) would go along way into winning back some of the fan base he's lost and instilling the belief that he is the man to take us back to the top.
Can't the same be applied to Pogba and his words then? Woodward and any employee of the club? Ironically can't the same be applied to pundits then? Why is Mourinho taking their criticism to have any weight to it?Mourinho accepted blame to the players though, which is what really matters. It was well documented he did.
Why do we give a shit about what he says to the media on the exit day? He just gave them something to write about so they don't focus on criticising the players and it worked a treat.
Re general demeanour examples? Tough to recall specifics from last season.. But one I can think of was when he called some pundits lazy and other colourful words when he could have just ignored them and not bother acknowledging what they say. It sort of shows you're getting to the manager if your shit punditry is getting noticed imo.
The shite situation the club currently finds itself in extends far beyond that of a poor start to this season. If this was his first season in charge of United, then 'it's only September' would be an acceptable retort, but we're into his third season in charge we are no closer to a settled first XI who play consistently cohesive football than we were when LVG was in charge. Do I need to point out all the negative events surrounding Jose since he began his management of our club?Oh come on It's fecking september, what a ludicrous thing to say.
Has anyone on here actually said that if in December we're in the same position that we wouldn't be more damning? No
We just think you're all hysterical given its september and we only just finished 2nd. Get a grip and come back when enough games have actually passed for a judgement
When it comes to performance, it doesn't apply to this season. He's had 2 bad performances and he's been arguably our best player in every other match.My problem with Pogba is his consistency, application and attitude. He doesn't have the consistency to warrant the things he says or does. I don't enjoy seeing him on social media all the time acting like a twat when he plays like piss or uploading shit during a game we end up losing in.
I don't enjoy him coming out after a Leicester win on opening day and causing instability by saying he's not happy and being cryptic about asking the manager why. Or after Brighton when he said his attidude isn't there or after Wolves for the obvious.
He doesn't follow instructions, he doesn't apply his talent, he's not consistent and he is more disruptive than beneficial. The Barcelona stuff is just shit on the side.
If you were a player, how could you not be furious at what Mou said? Why bring the negativity? All of the blame was placed on Pogba. Pogba's mentality was criticized even though he had won 4 league titles with Juventus. Apparently the league style format wasn't ill-suited for his brain then."I don't think it's about us getting the best out of him, it's about him giving the best he has to give," the United manager told ESPN FC in an exclusive interview.
"I think the World Cup is the perfect habitat for a player like him to give [their] best.
Why? Because it's closed for a month, where he can only think about football. Where he's with his team on the training camp, completely isolated from the external world, where they focus just on football, where the dimensions of the game can only motivate.
During a season, you can have a big match then a smaller match, then one even smaller, then you can lose your focus, you can lose your concentration, then comes a big match again.
In the World Cup, the direction of the emotion, of the responsibility, of the big decisions is always growing up.
You are in the group phase, you go to the last 16, to the quarterfinals, to the semifinals, to the finals. This feeds the motivation. This feeds the concentration of a player.
So I think it was the perfect environment for him."
It's as if context isn't important when making decisions about what people should act.Do I think you are hugely influenced by your blind hatred for Mourinho. Yes.
Just try and take Mourinho out of it for a moment (I know you'll find that hard). The club appoint the manager - only a couple of days ago Woodward spoke about backing the manager with more funds for transfers - and you have a subordinate player openly criticising the manager, as well as making ambiguous comments about playing elsewhere. Manchester United are paying his fecking wages and he's doing everything he can to destabilise the club...(most likely because he wants a move), and that is not disrespectful to the club? Unbelievable.
Funnily enough Fergie described Pogba as showing no respect for the club back in 2012, but even with the knowledge that he's done it once before and has now done a string of other stuff, all of a sudden his disrespect is only for Mourinho? You are joking.
That's a big part of it actually.It's scary to think that we're the type of club where the majority of people are actively seeking to sack the manager 6 games into the season, having finished second the season before. I can understand the frustration about the CL exit last season but apart from that, in terms of what's been going on on the pitch, it's hard for me to think that there's a serious case to be made for sacking him.
What context can justify a player going to the press to criticise his manager on multiple occasions?! You can't have players doing that, no matter what has gone on in the past.It's as if context isn't important when making decisions about what people should act.
The hysterical reaction and wanting him sacked does not extend beyond that. Criticisms obviously but whatever way you want to slice it, the hysterics are based on predicting the future based off very little.The shite situation the club currently finds itself in extends far beyond that of a poor start to this season. If this was his first season in charge of United, then 'it's only September' would be an acceptable retort, but we're into his third season in charge we are no closer to a settled first XI who play consistently cohesive football than we were when LVG was in charge. Do I need to point out all the negative events surrounding Jose since he began his management of our club?
Do point out, if you will, three positives in Jose Mourinho remaining manager of our club.
Yeah your right pogba not saying anything publicly or disrespecting anyone openly and deciding to leave for his career as a 18 year old is absolutely the same. Fergie also came out and said that he blames the agent not pogbaOh yeah, he'd never do something like that would he?! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...chester-United-as-he-leaves-for-Juventus.html
Yeah your right pogba not saying anything publicly or disrespecting anyone openly and deciding to leave for his career as a 18 year old is absolutely the same. Fergie also came out and said that he blames the agent not pogbaOh yeah, he'd never do something like that would he?! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...chester-United-as-he-leaves-for-Juventus.html
Did you read the article? It has direct quotes from Fergie about what he felt about Pogba.Yeah your right pogba not saying anything publicly or disrespecting anyone openly and deciding to leave for his career as a 18 year old is absolutely the same. Fergie also came out and said that he blames the agent not pogba
Shiit I somehow managed to overlook this part. Where was it documented, I'm really curious to see this or you're just assuming he did that behind the closed doors?Mourinho accepted blame to the players though, which is what really matters. It was well documented he did.
There was many who spoke like this under Moyes when it was pretty obvious we were fcuked for the season around Oct/Nov time.The hysterical reaction and wanting him sacked does not extend beyond that. Criticisms obviously but whatever way you want to slice it, the hysterics are based on predicting the future based off very little.
I'm not going to name positives because i can't predict the future. That's the difference people are taking the negatives you mentioned and forecasting a poor season based off the first lot of games but they did the same last season and we finished 2nd.
Like i said this situation in December and I'd probably say sack him. I really don't care that much if people are emotional but don't kid yourselves that you're being logical at the same time.
Fergie was upset in the moment. Fergie has since spoken out that Raiola is the one to blame. The entire relationship between Fergie and Pogba came from a disagreement on what is best for the development of Pogba. Pogba thought what was best lied elsewhere, Fergie felt it was still at United and Raiola was to blame for leaving.Did you read the article? It has direct quotes from Fergie about what he felt about Pogba.
I mean this post is straight out of the jose deflection handbook well done.Are you fecking serious? You're pointing to that and call it disrespect to the club? Do you know why he said what he said? The suggestion from the media was that he did something absolutely unheard of at Sevilla and no manager would have done it.
He reminded people that United can suffer freak performances and freak results. SAF himself did against Porto.
But no let's sack him because he pointed out a bad memory. He literally said he's a big manager and can knock big teams out so don't jump on his back for one bad fixture.
He didn't say he wanted to manage PSG in the future. He just told a French Reporter for a French newspaper that there is magic in Paris and he wanted his son to experience it.
Oh my god let's kill the guy for publicly saying Paris was a better climate to watch the football than Manchester at the time. feck me you guys are a bunch of sensitive sods.
And none of them are that fecking bad. You're all just upset because he's not saying Man Utd is mecca.
He's also praised the fans shit loads. Do you want to look at that or do you want to cherry pick?
Klopp criticised Liverpool fans at Annfield in his post match when they lost to Palace.
It's common for some managers to try and get the fans united in support and call them out of they don't show enough passion. Get over it. The match going fans certainly have, they sing his name every game even when we are chasing. It doesn't look like they've feel disrespected. Because they fecking haven't.
Bit of a stupid thing to post considering Shaw has credit Mourinho for his turnaround and the manager himself has been full of praise.
So the best you guys have is:
Mourinho saying he preferred to take his son to watch a game in Paris once.
Mourinho saying you can hear fans in Portsmouth specifically because it's a small stadium. Whereas here it's bigger space so tougher to hear all.
Mourinho reminding the media that United have lost to a small team before so don't jump on him (common defensive tactic and very political. You'd be daft to read it as literal disrespect).
Mourinho giving Shaw tough love before praising him for turning it around.
Good one. Let's ignore the constant praise he gives to the club history, the fans and all that. Christ you're all a bunch of snowflakes. I'm out of this thread now, too toxic and limited for my liking.
