[MackRobinson]

Matic two time PL winner .. as much as I like Jorginho and think right now he’s the better player - in his prime I would want Matic in my midfield.

That's fine but we are talking about now not his prime. He's not better than Jorginho based on this season.

 

[Red00012]

I had to read this post twice. A Manchester United supporter who says something positive about the players and manager.

The general opinion before the game was that United stood little chance of getting any sort of result against Chelsea.

So, a very creditable draw is still met with criticism and derision. It seems that Lukaku is the focus of a lot of complaints but late in the second half he was the only one who actually held the ball up.

I was as anoyed that we conceded so late but we all know about the defensive weekness.
I hope that this haunts Mr Woodward.

It’s easy to blame the weak defence but Ed can’t be blamed for 3 players watching and not moving from Luiz heading the ball to the ball going in the net. Just watch Pogba ,Matic and Lindelof For that goal.

 

[Buster15]

It’s easy to blame the weak defence but Ed can’t be blamed for 3 players watching and not moving from Luiz heading the ball to the ball going in the net. Just watch Pogba ,Matic and Lindelof For that goal.

Good point. I was more referring to the fact that Jose wanted to strengthen the defence. But you are right.

 

[MackRobinson]

I do think that. Defenders cost us 8 points so far at least. Spurs game, brighton game, Chelsea game... all defenders at fault.

I find that extremely hard to believe. The defense isn't good but the attack looks inept as well.

 

[el3mel]

I find that extremely hard to believe. The defense isn't good but the attack looks inept as well.

Well disagree. We score at least 2 goals per game which should be more than enough to win most games. You can't be depending on scoring 4 every game to secure the points.

Liverpool scored 1 more goal than us. They scored 16 while we scored 15, but ironically their defense is the reason they are up top. The needeed 1 goal to defeat Brighton, while we scored 2 and ended up losing.

Spurs also scored 1 more goal, Chelsea scored 5 more. We're not far away from them this season in terms of goals scoring actually.

But non of them conceded 16 goals as of now!

 

[tony54]

I don't know if Felaini was injured or not, but if he had been in defence he may have prevented both goals.
Lukaku is playing himself a transfer at this rate. I can understand him playing well forward but if he doesnt start a bit of running into space his feet may set in concrete. Most good forwards eventually find their scoring boots but this run is dreadful.

 

[El Zoido]

Lukaku needs a rest, he’s being run in to the ground. It’s really obvious when watching him play these past couple of weeks, his feet look heavy. That’s not how he was last season. He’s had a deep WC run and plays every minute of every game for us.

 

[noodlehair]

He was not injured but it was certainly a foul, Lukaku trod on his heel off the ball and those hurt like feck.

He should've got up of course but was hoping to get a foul (which obviously should've been given).

It wasn't a clear foul and even if it was the fact it wasn't even possible to see until well after the game kind of makes it difficult to say "it should have been given"...even with VAR it's debatable whether it would have been picked up in time. The ball came into the box another two times after that before the goal was scored, so what should have happened is Alonso should have gotten up and defended rather than trying to be dishonest and cheat. Literally all he had to do to stop a goal there was not be lying on the floor pretending to be dead.

I don't see the point trying to blame an officiating mistake when an outcome could have been avoided by a player simply doing the absolute basics of their job. I mean I'm not sure 6 minutes of added time was justified but we could have just tried defending a simple hit and hope ball into our box properly, or at all.

Nani used to do shite like this and it would infuriate me every time, but even he wasn't dumb enough to do it 6 yards from his own goal line while the opposition were in the middle of an attack.

 

[tony54]

Lukaku needs a rest, he’s being run in to the ground. It’s really obvious when watching him play these past couple of weeks, his feet look heavy. That’s not how he was last season. He’s had a deep WC run and plays every minute of every game for us.

,

Yes, that's true and surely Mourino can see this.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Decent result. Lovely to see us come back again.

Still not convinced were headed in the right direction under Mourinho but I'll take the positives.

 

[nainaisson]

I don't know if Felaini was injured or not, but if he had been in defence he may have prevented both goals.

Yeah, it's a total mystery why he wasn't even on the bench. It was a good idea not to start him, though, since Fellaini in midfield would have hindered any counter-attack to a slow crawl, but he's too useful to keep out of the squad altogether.

 

[montpelier]

Pereira(a midfielder)came on for Martial, and Herrera had already come on for Mata 2 minutes after we took the lead, if that's not hold what we have I don't know what is.

All the teams & managers do this. It isn't specific to Mourinho. As was said, we can't be looking at every butterfly flapping its wings kind of event - but only preferred events - through the Jose-shaped prism.

Although we can & do, on a constant & never-ending basis, obviously.

What about the half time team talk? That must have been pretty good.

A 2-2 draw at Chelsea should help the under-pressure Manager really, not be used against him as well.

The point of debate in those terms should be the handbags with opposition staff - it's not a particularly good look whatever the reasons for it happening are.

For the record, I seem to be a recent convert to the JM Out side but I'd like to still be fair & supportive of Manager & team getting decent results. Yesterday didn't tell us a lot we didn't already know, but was better than we've been used to.

 

[Red1968]

I thought United played a solid game overall, great fightback in the 2nd half and could have easily had a 3rd goal with just a bit more luck. I have no problem with Jose's strategy yesterday nor the play of the players for him. However, the ball watching yet again comes up and bites us in the ass. Too many pts lost from defending where defenders seem to switch off and become spectators. Pogba was burned twice in yesterday's game and the 2nd goal was totally inexcusable. It was bad enough that the cross came in to the box and Luiz is unmarked at the back post but what follows is beyond embarrassing. 3 United players, Pogba, Matic and Lindelöf just stand there as the ball hits the post with 2 Chelsea players rushing in to clean up the rebound. De gea makes a great save and still a delayed reaction on the 2nd rebound by the United defenders who should be smashing it clear and Chelsea score. That goal is totally on the players involved, lazy, vacant headed defending killed us again!

 

[Ollomy]

Lukaku needs a rest, he’s being run in to the ground. It’s really obvious when watching him play these past couple of weeks, his feet look heavy. That’s not how he was last season. He’s had a deep WC run and plays every minute of every game for us.

I think the problem is our playing style. With Belgium he is doing well.

 

[Moriarty]

I thought United played a solid game overall, great fightback in the 2nd half and could have easily had a 3rd goal with just a bit more luck. I have no problem with Jose's strategy yesterday nor the play of the players for him. However, the ball watching yet again comes up and bites us in the ass. Too many pts lost from defending where defenders seem to switch off and become spectators. Pogba was burned twice in yesterday's game and the 2nd goal was totally inexcusable. It was bad enough that the cross came in to the box and Luiz is unmarked at the back post but what follows is beyond embarrassing. 3 United players, Pogba, Matic and Lindelöf just stand there as the ball hits the post with 2 Chelsea players rushing in to clean up the rebound. De gea makes a great save and still a delayed reaction on the 2nd rebound by the United defenders who should be smashing it clear and Chelsea score. That goal is totally on the players involved, lazy, vacant headed defending killed us again!

No leader at the back. Defending that corner, there was nobody telling the defenders what to do, who to mark, and where to go. When we had players like Rio, or Stam, or Vidic organizing at the back, we rarely conceded that kind of goal. Smalling is a good defender, for the most part, but he does not command. De Gea doesn't command either in the way Schmeichel or Van der Sar did, so we are lacking there.

 

[MC89]

Would’ve took a draw at start n I think we would all have been happy but to go 2-1 up n concede so late feels like defeat, on to juve we go

 

[arthurka]

Good second half. Thats it.
Ps we are really dire to watch most of the time.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I find that extremely hard to believe. The defense isn't good but the attack looks inept as well.

Attack, attack, attack.... We always blame attack and Mourinho. Well we played with attacking lineup and scored 2 on away game against Chelsea. But our defence is shit. What is there hard to believe? In 95th minute they had 3 touches in our penalty box, ffs. 2 players were not marked at all.
This club has only one problem. It is not attack, it is not Jose, it is not midfield. It is defence and players who play in that defenders. 16 goals conceded in 9 games. 16 bloody goals.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Attack, attack, attack.... We always blame attack and Mourinho. Well we played with attacking lineup and scored 2 on away game against Chelsea. But our defence is shit. What is there hard to believe? In 95th minute they had 3 touches in our penalty box, ffs. 2 players were not marked at all.
This club has only one problem. It is not attack, it is not Jose, it is not midfield. It is defence and players who play in that defenders. 16 goals conceded in 9 games. 16 bloody goals.

United basically need to score at least two goals a game to have a chance of winning, because you just know we will concede.

 

[MackRobinson]

Well disagree. We score at least 2 goals per game which should be more than enough to win most games. You can't be depending on scoring 4 every game to secure the points.

Liverpool scored 1 more goal than us. They scored 16 while we scored 15, but ironically their defense is the reason they are up top. The needeed 1 goal to defeat Brighton, while we scored 2 and ended up losing.

Spurs also scored 1 more goal, Chelsea scored 5 more. We're not far away from them this season in terms of goals scoring actually.

But non of them conceded 16 goals as of now!

Liverpool's attack hasn't looked good either, but still watching them vs United and it's obvious they are a much better attacking side. VVD is immense at the back and their defense is certainly better, but for me the main difference in defense is teams like Liverpool (and more so City and Chelsea) are such attacking threats that teams not only play deeper but are cautious in bombing their fullbacks forward.

For instance, I happened to watch United, City, and Liverpool's matches against Brighton. City and Liverpool's defenders didn't really have much to do as Brighton played deep and their fullbacks didn't get forward. Both teams could have easily more. In contrast, against United Bong and Montoya were constantly getting forward and their backline wasn't that concerned about defending deep. Granted Brighton were at home, but I would be shocked if they played like that in the reverse fixtures vs any other top 3 side.

I'm actually not shocked that players like Linelof look so terrible. Why have a ball playing defender playing so deep? Many of the best ball playing defenders in the world would look out of place in system where they consistently defend deep.

Main takeaways:
1) Most modern Premier league teams are good on the ball. When given time and space, they can create very good chances.
2) Managers like Pep, Klopp, Sarri, and Poch have systems that do not allow the opposition any time on the ball. The trade-off is the increased exposure to counterattacks and the amount of ground players must cover, but it seems the pros outweight the cons.
3) United has the quality to play on the front foot and force teams to setup to defend deep. Between players like Pogba, Sanchez, Martial, and Rashford there aren't many teams who can go toe to toe with United. Sure, they will concede goals and perhaps won't be as good as an attacking unit as City or Liverpool, but they should blow away almost every other team.

 

[automaticflare]

Well disagree. We score at least 2 goals per game which should be more than enough to win most games. You can't be depending on scoring 4 every game to secure the points.

Liverpool scored 1 more goal than us. They scored 16 while we scored 15, but ironically their defense is the reason they are up top. The needeed 1 goal to defeat Brighton, while we scored 2 and ended up losing.

Spurs also scored 1 more goal, Chelsea scored 5 more. We're not far away from them this season in terms of goals scoring actually.

But non of them conceded 16 goals as of now!

100% agree mate. You need a solid foundation. We can’t build the rest of the team or allow more freedom to attack because our defense is so shaky.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

100% agree mate. You need a solid foundation. We can’t build the rest of the team or allow more freedom to attack because our defense is so shaky.

You are right, which is why City and Liverpool have re-tooled theirs. They have gone for known quantities like VVD and Laporte. Everybody knew they are both class CB's. We took a punt on Bailly who had 5 games for Espanyol and 35 approx for Villareal and expect him the be the finished article, then Lindelof who had played in Sweden then played approx a season's worth or games for Benfica and expect the same from him.

 

[el3mel]

Liverpool's attack hasn't looked good either, but still watching them vs United and it's obvious they are a much better attacking side. VVD is immense at the back and their defense is certainly better, but for me the main difference in defense is teams like Liverpool (and more so City and Chelsea) are such attacking threats that teams not only play deeper but are cautious in bombing their fullbacks forward.

For instance, I happened to watch United, City, and Liverpool's matches against Brighton. City and Liverpool's defenders didn't really have much to do as Brighton played deep and their fullbacks didn't get forward. Both teams could have easily more. In contrast, against United Bong and Montoya were constantly getting forward and their backline wasn't that concerned about defending deep. Granted Brighton were at home, but I would be shocked if they played like that in the reverse fixtures vs any other top 3 side.

I'm actually not shocked that players like Linelof look so terrible. Why have a ball playing defender playing so deep? Many of the best ball playing defenders in the world would look out of place in system where they consistently defend deep.

Main takeaways:
1) Most modern Premier league teams are good on the ball. When given time and space, they can create very good chances.
2) Managers like Pep, Klopp, Sarri, and Poch have systems that do not allow the opposition any time on the ball. The trade-off is the increased exposure to counterattacks and the amount of ground players must cover, but it seems the pros outweight the cons.
3) United has the quality to play on the front foot and force teams to setup to defend deep. Between players like Pogba, Sanchez, Martial, and Rashford there aren't many teams who can go toe to toe with United. Sure, they will concede goals and perhaps won't be as good as an attacking unit as City or Liverpool, but they should blow away almost every other team.

I didn't say Liverpool attack overall isn't better than us. As a unit they're definitely are, but previous seasons when their attack had a period of not firing they used to draw lots of games and got pulled out of the title race completely by then. Happened the last 2 seasons. Their attack now isn't firing much, but they're in the race with great set of points due to their defense and GK being good enough to keep a 1-0 win. They don't need to defend for their life or park a bus but not every attack on them holds danger like previous years. You don't get the feeling they'll concede at any point any more. That's why they're contending now, so imagine when their attack starts to click.

Without a solid base at the back you're not going forward much. Liverpool are contending now after splashing cash on defense and GK, while last years with their attack scoring ridiculous amount of goals they weren't in the race. City from Pep's first season to second one changed one thing and that's their back four and GK, while their midfield and attack were the same, and look how that changed them.

Defense is still very important to contend for Premier league imo.

 

[FootyGirl88]

You are right, which is why City and Liverpool have re-tooled theirs. They have gone for known quantities like VVD and Laporte. Everybody knew they are both class CB's. We took a punt on Bailly who had 5 games for Espanyol and 35 approx for Villareal and expect him the be the finished article, then Lindelof who had played in Sweden then played approx a season's worth or games for Benfica and expect the same from him.

Bailly was a good purchase I think he had a good first season and we've seen the potential. Lindelof is another story, we shouldn't have bought him considering there were other options available at the time. I don't understand that purchase at all.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Bailly was a good purchase I think he had a good first season and we've seen the potential. Lindelof is another story, we shouldn't have bought him considering there were other options available at the time. I don't understand that purchase at all.

Think Bailly would be good with that experienced CB next to him who can rein him in sometimes as he can be a complete headcase. Somebody who would tell him straight. We need that presence in there, they are too quiet.

 

[DSG]

Liverpool's attack hasn't looked good either, but still watching them vs United and it's obvious they are a much better attacking side. VVD is immense at the back and their defense is certainly better, but for me the main difference in defense is teams like Liverpool (and more so City and Chelsea) are such attacking threats that teams not only play deeper but are cautious in bombing their fullbacks forward.

For instance, I happened to watch United, City, and Liverpool's matches against Brighton. City and Liverpool's defenders didn't really have much to do as Brighton played deep and their fullbacks didn't get forward. Both teams could have easily more. In contrast, against United Bong and Montoya were constantly getting forward and their backline wasn't that concerned about defending deep. Granted Brighton were at home, but I would be shocked if they played like that in the reverse fixtures vs any other top 3 side.

I'm actually not shocked that players like Linelof look so terrible. Why have a ball playing defender playing so deep? Many of the best ball playing defenders in the world would look out of place in system where they consistently defend deep.

Main takeaways:
1) Most modern Premier league teams are good on the ball. When given time and space, they can create very good chances.
2) Managers like Pep, Klopp, Sarri, and Poch have systems that do not allow the opposition any time on the ball. The trade-off is the increased exposure to counterattacks and the amount of ground players must cover, but it seems the pros outweight the cons.
3) United has the quality to play on the front foot and force teams to setup to defend deep. Between players like Pogba, Sanchez, Martial, and Rashford there aren't many teams who can go toe to toe with United. Sure, they will concede goals and perhaps won't be as good as an attacking unit as City or Liverpool, but they should blow away almost every other team.

Good analysis.

I would add a few takeaways from this match.

1. We have a plodding, loping midfield. The size of Matic, Fellaini and Pogba means they can win a lot of aerial challenges and they are physically strong. But I think we really sacrifice quickness. It’s hard for us to get to balls on the ground, and a lot of smaller quicker players skip past us.

2. Most of the Prem has moved towards smaller, quicker players in a midfield three. Chelsea with Kovacic, Kante and Jorginho, City with Fernandinho, Silva and KDB. Movement is faster, more dynamic. Supporting the forwards is faster vs. a guy like Matic loping down the pitch. Notice that when Pep came in, he immediately dropped Toure....

3. This affects our defense and link up play. Pogba can get forward at times but mostly is providing bland support and moving the ball. Rarely is he in space where he can drive at opponents.

4. Our midfield affects our high press. A slow midfield means lack of support in the high press and easy for teams to break down. Notice that the Liverpool midfield three win a lot of balls in the high press. They are quick to step to force an errant pass or pounce on a heavy touch.

Given that we are 9th, I’d be in favor of trying a high pressing system with a midfield three of Herrera, Fred and Pereira. Why not? Lingard is ideal in this system because his workrate is so high. Rashford at striker with Martial on the left....

 

[Roboc7]

Still stuck in the cycle we had under Moyes and LVG where the manager seems to be making it up as they go along. Considering This is Mourinho’s third season it just isn’t good enough and the next defeat will prompt another rethink.

The games against Everton and Bournemouth are huge for Mourinho
now, fail to win one of those and when we face City we will be in the bottom half of the table and the pressure will be immense.

The Chelsea result and performance were good in isolation but in the context of the season it’s not good enough, for Utd to be 10th at this stage of the season just isn’t acceptable.

 

[MackRobinson]

Attack, attack, attack.... We always blame attack and Mourinho. Well we played with attacking lineup and scored 2 on away game against Chelsea. But our defence is shit. What is there hard to believe? In 95th minute they had 3 touches in our penalty box, ffs. 2 players were not marked at all.
This club has only one problem. It is not attack, it is not Jose, it is not midfield. It is defence and players who play in that defenders. 16 goals conceded in 9 games. 16 bloody goals.

I'm confused at the point you're attempting to make. A 2-2 result at Stamford bridge is a good result, the 2 goals scored were more or less a result of set pieces, and the defenders weren't individually at fault for any of those goals.

Regardless, nothing you said proves the attack isn't inept (I thought this was common knowledge). The original point I made was, given the state of United's attack, I don't understand how anyone thinks they would be 1st by just buying a defender or two.

I didn't say Liverpool attack overall isn't better than us. As a unit they're definitely are, but previous seasons when their attack had a period of not firing they used to draw lots of games and got pulled out of the title race completely by then. Happened the last 2 seasons. Their attack now isn't firing much, but they're in the race with great set of points due to their defense and GK being good enough to keep a 1-0 win. They don't need to defend for their life or park a bus but not every attack on them holds danger like previous years. You don't get the feeling they'll concede at any point any more. That's why they're contending now, so imagine when their attack starts to click.

Without a solid base at the back you're not going forward much. Liverpool are contending now after splashing cash on defense and GK, while last years with their attack scoring ridiculous amount of goals they weren't in the race. City from Pep's first season to second one changed one thing and that's their back four and GK, while their midfield and attack were the same, and look how that changed them.

Defense is still very important to contend for Premier league imo.

Never said you said they were better. I was explaining the difference between Liverpool's 16 goals and United's 15 goals (since you brought up their goals scored). People forget Liverpool had the luxury of strengthening CB and GK b/c their attack was so lethal (similar to City and the amount they've spent on defenders). It plainly obvious to anyone paying attention scoring goals wouldn't be a problem for them. Neither City or Liverpool depend primarily on their defenders to win matches for them.

The bolded is simply not true. Liverpool were still a potent attacking unit before VVD and Allison. City were an excellent attacking team before they bought all those defenders. Also I never said defense isn't important to contend.

Good analysis.

I would add a few takeaways from this match.

1. We have a plodding, loping midfield. The size of Matic, Fellaini and Pogba means they can win a lot of aerial challenges and they are physically strong. But I think we really sacrifice quickness. It’s hard for us to get to balls on the ground, and a lot of smaller quicker players skip past us.

2. Most of the Prem has moved towards smaller, quicker players in a midfield three. Chelsea with Kovacic, Kante and Jorginho, City with Fernandinho, Silva and KDB. Movement is faster, more dynamic. Supporting the forwards is faster vs. a guy like Matic loping down the pitch. Notice that when Pep came in, he immediately dropped Toure....

3. This affects our defense and link up play. Pogba can get forward at times but mostly is providing bland support and moving the ball. Rarely is he in space where he can drive at opponents.

4. Our midfield affects our high press. A slow midfield means lack of support in the high press and easy for teams to break down. Notice that the Liverpool midfield three win a lot of balls in the high press. They are quick to step to force an errant pass or pounce on a heavy touch.

Given that we are 9th, I’d be in favor of trying a high pressing system with a midfield three of Herrera, Fred and Pereira. Why not? Lingard is ideal in this system because his workrate is so high. Rashford at striker with Martial on the left....

I agree with almost all of this except I think you have to start Pogba as he is the most creative midfield player (as an aside, Liverpool gets away with their lack of playmaking center mids b/c they have Firminho dropping deep and more or less playing that role). I would be interested to see Pogba, Fred, and Herrera in midfield three.

 

[el3mel]

Never said you said they were better. I was explaining the difference between Liverpool's 16 goals and United's 15 goals (since you brought up their goals scored). People forget Liverpool had the luxury of strengthening CB and GK b/c their attack was so lethal (similar to City and the amount they've spent on defenders). It plainly obvious to anyone paying attention scoring goals wouldn't be a problem for them. Neither City or Liverpool depend primarily on their defenders to win matches for them.

The bolded is simply not true. Liverpool were still a potent attacking unit before VVD and Allison. City were an excellent attacking team before they bought all those defenders. Also I never said defense isn't important to contend.

I meant winning things by the "going forward" sentence not attacking. You can attack as much as you want at any time that's for sure, but without a solid base you'll be less likely able to defend the goals you're scoring and you'll need 3 and 4 goals to win most of your games, something that you won't be able to pull out every time even with the best attack, so you'll score a lot and will be entertaining but will finish 4th and not win much. Liverpool were like that the previous 2 years but now that they strengthened their back and GK they can finally combine a good attack with a good defense and can go forward to compete for big trophies. You don't need defense to attack, but you need defense to actually win things. Hence the famous quote "attack wins you games, defense wins you titles".

I'm not saying we're attacking well, but at the same time, I think the amount of goals we're scoring should be enough to get more points than what we have. We can't be conceding 16 goals in 9 matches, while scoring 15, close to what Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea and think the main problem in the attack. It sure has a problem and it needs improving, no doubt, but conceding 16 in 9 matches and having -1 GD is unacceptable for a big club wanting to challenge.

 

[Perseus]

For instance, I happened to watch United, City, and Liverpool's matches against Brighton. City and Liverpool's defenders didn't really have much to do as Brighton played deep and their fullbacks didn't get forward. Both teams could have easily more. In contrast, against United Bong and Montoya were constantly getting forward and their backline wasn't that concerned about defending deep. Granted Brighton were at home, but I would be shocked if they played like that in the reverse fixtures vs any other top 3 side.

Main takeaways:
1) Most modern Premier league teams are good on the ball. When given time and space, they can create very good chances.
2) Managers like Pep, Klopp, Sarri, and Poch have systems that do not allow the opposition any time on the ball. The trade-off is the increased exposure to counterattacks and the amount of ground players must cover, but it seems the pros outweight the cons.
3) United has the quality to play on the front foot and force teams to setup to defend deep. Between players like Pogba, Sanchez, Martial, and Rashford there aren't many teams who can go toe to toe with United. Sure, they will concede goals and perhaps won't be as good as an attacking unit as City or Liverpool, but they should blow away almost every other team.

I watched Brighton v Man C, Liverpool, Spurs, Man Utd. The main difference was the intensity of the press forcing Brighton to make mistakes. For breaching Brighton's deep six man defence from open play and creating big chances there was very little between all four clubs. Not that much difference in defence either. That was down to Brighton failing to convert (v Liverpool) or the linesman's flag (v Spurs). Man City were just too good on the counter.

Still Man City and Liverpool are better at converting big chances. e.g. Salah, Kane and Aguero are better than Lukaku.

 

[Dosse]

Third match in a row where Evra sat next to Woodward!

 

[99withaflake]

 

[GhastlyHun]

Still Man City and Liverpool are better at converting big chances. e.g. Salah, Kane and Aguero are better than Lukaku.

Here's the fun part: both City and Liverpool have scored less than their xG, while United has actually scored more (https://understat.com/league/EPL). The view of the efficiency of United's attack is heavily distorted by the fact that the team creates so little in terms of good chances. Therefore every miss is perceived as more impactful, while the conversion of chances is not even that bad. Just look at the sitters Aguero didn't score against Burnley, Lukaku would be crucified for that. City instead created 20 more chances and eventually scored a bunch, but 5 goals out of 14 shots on target isn't even that great.

 

[meamth]

It’s easy to blame the weak defence but Ed can’t be blamed for 3 players watching and not moving from Luiz heading the ball to the ball going in the net. Just watch Pogba ,Matic and Lindelof For that goal.

Or maybe when you have De God in the goal you tend to just believe in him too much that your body can't move. I certainly believe that feeling too.

 

[fergieisold]

Still stuck in the cycle we had under Moyes and LVG where the manager seems to be making it up as they go along. Considering This is Mourinho’s third season it just isn’t good enough and the next defeat will prompt another rethink.

The games against Everton and Bournemouth are huge for Mourinho
now, fail to win one of those and when we face City we will be in the bottom half of the table and the pressure will be immense.

The Chelsea result and performance were good in isolation but in the context of the season it’s not good enough, for Utd to be 10th at this stage of the season just isn’t acceptable.

My feeling is patience at the moment. We've had too much change since SAF left and we need some continuation. Get rid of Jose we're where we are now a year or even 2 years from now. Stick with him and back him and I suspect he'll be winning us minimum the PL within a few years.

People won't wait though and will continue to fall into the trap of thinking instant results should be demanded.

 

[Perseus]

Here's the fun part: both City and Liverpool have scored less than their xG, while United has actually scored more (https://understat.com/league/EPL). The view of the efficiency of United's attack is heavily distorted by the fact that the team creates so little in terms of good chances. Therefore every miss is perceived as more impactful, while the conversion of chances is not even that bad. Just look at the sitters Aguero didn't score against Burnley, Lukaku would be crucified for that. City instead created 20 more chances and eventually scored a bunch, but 5 goals out of 14 shots on target isn't even that great.

i meant specifically against Brighton. Lukaku misssed and Salah scored almost identical first goal chances. Margins between winning and losing. Brighton created about the same quotient (i.e 2) of good chancecs against Man Utd and Liverpool, restricted the opposition in clear cut chances, although Liverpool (at Anfield) created slightly more half chances and got the rub of the green because of that. Spurs were about the same as United.

All down to the intensity of pressing though. Unlike City, Liverpool and Spurs cannot keep it up for the whole game.

Against Brighton, the defence played a high line. This meant small mistakes were punished.

 

[Roboc7]

My feeling is patience at the moment. We've had too much change since SAF left and we need some continuation. Get rid of Jose we're where we are now a year or even 2 years from now. Stick with him and back him and I suspect he'll be winning us minimum the PL within a few years.

People won't wait though and will continue to fall into the trap of thinking instant results should be demanded.

Mourinho has never lasted more than 3 seasons at any club let alone won any trophies after that time . I am all for continuation but that isn’t why you appoint Mourinho and there is nothing to suggest he is building towards anything, in fact it’s more likely we are going backwards and Mourinho almost needs to start from scratch again.

Of course we could sack him and end up in the same position or worse but it could also be a lot better, Mourinho isn’t getting the best out of this group of players and his transfer record is poor.

Has nothing to do with instant results, this is his third season there should be progress and a plan not the mess we currently have.

 

[fergieisold]

Mourinho has never lasted more than 3 seasons at any club let alone won any trophies after that time . I am all for continuation but that isn’t why you appoint Mourinho and there is nothing to suggest he is building towards anything, in fact it’s more likely we are going backwards and Mourinho almost needs to start from scratch again.

Of course we could sack him and end up in the same position or worse but it could also be a lot better, Mourinho isn’t getting the best out of this group of players and his transfer record is poor.

Has nothing to do with instant results, this is his third season there should be progress and a plan not the mess we currently have.

We’ve started very poorly but we’re only 9 games in. There’s been some promise recently, let’s see where things go from here. Jose not lasting more than 3 seasons means nothing to me. It’s a quirk in the stats, nothing more. It certainly shouldn’t be used as further evidence this poor spell is because it is his third season.

 

[Roboc7]

We’ve started very poorly but we’re only 9 games in. There’s been some promise recently, let’s see where things go from here. Jose not lasting more than 3 seasons means nothing to me. It’s a quirk in the stats, nothing more. It certainly shouldn’t be used as further evidence this poor spell is because it is his third season.

It’s not a quirk, just as him being a proven winner over a short period of time isn’t a quirk. His methods/ personality don’t work over a long period of time.

Fair enough he should be given time to salvage something from the season but Woodward would be incompetent to be planning to continue with him and should already being lining up a replacement.

 

[Isotope]

Lukaku needs a rest, he’s being run in to the ground. It’s really obvious when watching him play these past couple of weeks, his feet look heavy. That’s not how he was last season. He’s had a deep WC run and plays every minute of every game for us.

Hazard, who did most of the running in that Belgium WC, has been looking mighty fine and fit this season. So is Pogba.