How much do we need to spend?

[fergieisold]

I know there is a big proportion of people who blame Jose for the current form, and some of it is down to him, no doubt about that. However I was looking at the squad last night vs Juventus thinking how poor some of our first 11 looked up against a top top team.

I'm going to be probably a little too rough and pessimistic but suggest some of our starting 11 should be on the bench as back up really. Lukaku, Rashford, Young all need improving up on and should be warming the bench.

We look like we need a number 9, 10, at least 1 CB, a RB, RW a CM who can control the game.

We're half a team away from being anywhere near the top teams from what I can tell, and Jose is right in some sense that the other top teams don't rest and go out buying players to improve them even when they are already strong. Considering our scouts are shite we'll have to pay top dollar for top players. So I'd say 300 million minimum is what we need to spend over the next few transfer windows.

 

[el3mel]

Well, a fortune. We just need 2 proper summers in which we splash the cash massively then retreat and spend less after building the full team, but spending 150m per summer leads to us solving a problem to find another one arising.

Next season the likes of Valencia and Young will be done for, maybe Sanchez and Matic will be the same so here's 4 players that will actually need replacing, then you have the center back problems, Lukaku, number 10 and right wingers, all need to be upgraded.

 

[Invictus]

“How much” is a tricky and relative benchmark, to be fair — a club can realistically spend £500 million on ill-thought-out transfers and barely improve the starting XI apart from the superficial details, much like a mediocre cook can buy the best, most expensive ingredients yet fail to prepare sushi like Seiji Yamamoto. United has parted with a good amount of money in recent years — and will continue to do so, but we have to be much more intelligent wrt. player evaluation, their suitability to the elite level and the integration of their skill set in a harmonious way in the manager's overall scheme to match the contemporary elite. Our seemingly endless midfield overhaul, for instance, highlights the nature of our issues: ~€320 million spent in the post-Fergie era, and it's still very much a work in progress from a structural standpoint, even aside from concerns regarding quality.

 

[SCP]

How much does it cost to fire Mourinho?

 

[LInkash]

What's Mourinho's severance package?

 

[Schmiznurf]

We need Sulaman money.

 

[Gopher Brown]

The absolute bare minimum we need next summer, provided players like Herrera and Mata stay, is a RB, CB, RW and a CF. I have very little faith that those in charge can provide players of suitable quality to challenge for the league next year.

If you’d have asked me the absolute bare minimum we needed last summer, I’d have said the same. Zero progress made.

Mahrez was available for £55m, Cancelo cost Juventus €40m - both would have improved us massively. The players are out there.

 

[fergieisold]

“How much” is a tricky and relative benchmark, to be fair — a club can realistically spend £500 million on ill-thought-out transfers and barely improve the starting XI apart from the superficial details, much like a mediocre cook can buy the best, most expensive ingredients yet fail to prepare sushi like Seiji Yamamoto. United has parted with a good amount of money in recent years — and will continue to do so, but we have to be much more intelligent wrt. player evaluation, their suitability to the elite level and the integration of their skill set in a harmonious way in the manager's overall scheme to match the contemporary elite. Our seemingly endless midfield overhaul, for instance, highlights the nature of our issues: ~€320 million spent in the post-Fergie era, and it's still very much a work in progress from a structural standpoint, even aside from concerns regarding quality.

This is one of the things that worries me maybe more than the ability to buy top players. That this part of the structure at the club is in some way rotten or in need of massive overhaul.

 

[fergieisold]

How much does it cost to fire Mourinho?

And this adds? You think with a different manager our team would compete with Juve etc? Doesn't look like it from what I've seen.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What's Mourinho's severance package?

Can we not just transfer him and get a fee?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

And this adds? You think with a different manager our team would compete with Juve etc? Doesn't look like it from what I've seen.

We need changing from top to bottom. A DOF first, who choses candidates that suit the way the club wants to go, get the right manager and then the pair of them start recruiting players. It seems simple, but this club could even cock that up.

 

[SCP]

And this adds? You think with a different manager our team would compete with Juve etc? Doesn't look like it from what I've seen.

It might add that to evaluate the individual quality on the squad it would be better to have someone who can take the best from your players and improve them. Believe it or not there are a few around the World who can do it. Problem is when you go to sign someone based on what they won 5 or 10 years ago without knowing how they play.

 

[Sassy Colin]

One million dollars he he he he!

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

I think for once we need to be sensible about spending. We have already spent loads but have failed to sign classy players on free transfers (Goretzka, Emre can etc) or players who are in last year of contracts (which are less costly), or players who are young and upcoming the likes of Cabellos or Ajax youngers (Di Lagt and De Jong etc). It again brings the role of DOF and scouts why they are constantly unable yo find such players while teams like Bayern, Juve and Atletico Madrid do this constantly.

Further our squad is heavily loaded with underperforming players who will need to be offloaded, like the Lvg summer sale, where it felt we let goo soo many players. We need to have a similar one. In this market at the bare minimum, i expect us to receive such prices for these players we need to shift asap.

Rojo 15m
Jones 12m
Lindelof 20m
Valencia and Young combined 5m.
Fellani 10m
Mata 15m
Matic 20m
Lukaku 50m
Total 147m. approx 150m

Incoming players
Di lagt and De jong 120m
Right winger 40m-50m (Chiesla, Douglas costa or Brandt etc)
Buy Striker 80m-100m (Icardi)
Net spend 120m only

So the changes we need will not be huge or we don't require another 300m but we need techincally apt playere who can play through the press.

New look team
Dalot De Ligt Smalling Shaw
Pogba De Jong Fred/Perriera/Herrera
Costa Martial/New striker Alexis/Martial.

If we want we can even play Martail uptop with Alexis on the left and buy a cheap option like Mandzukic etc, untill we find the proper striker who can play and take people. It will result in net spend of 20m to 30m max however the team will be transformed with young techinally apt players who will play beautiful football.

 

[AndyJ1985]

It's not about how much, but about how well its spent. That's where we have severely got it wrong. Many hundreds of millions have been spent assembling this squad, and they're the second highest paid in the world. Without exaggeration we have the worst squad in the history of football in terms of value for money. Honestly we shouldn't spend a single penny more until a dof is hired, Jose is sacked, and we have a long term plan.

 

[youmeletsfly]

It s about who you buy. If, for example, tou replace lukaku with another lamp post, you re solving an issie with another issue.

Recruitment needs to be done for the future, to ensure compatibility between players, the style of play and future coaching staff.

We kinda need:
CB
RM
RB

That's 200-250 mil right there if you want quality.

 

[Gopher Brown]

I think for once we need to be sensible about spending. We have already spent loads but have failed to sign classy players on free transfers (Goretzka, Emre can etc) or players who are in last year of contracts (which are less costly), or players who are young and upcoming the likes of Cabellos or Ajax youngers (Di Lagt and De Jong etc). It again brings the role of DOF and scouts why they are constantly unable yo find such players while teams like Bayern, Juve and Atletico Madrid do this constantly.

Further our squad is heavily loaded with underperforming players who will need to be offloaded, like the Lvg summer sale, where it felt we let goo soo many players. We need to have a similar one. In this market at the bare minimum, i expect us to receive such prices for these players we need to shift asap.

Rojo 15m
Jones 12m
Lindelof 20m
Valencia and Young combined 5m.
Fellani 10m
Mata 15m
Matic 20m
Lukaku 50m
Total 147m. approx 150m

Incoming players
Di lagt and De jong 120m
Right winger 40m-50m (Chiesla, Douglas costa or Brandt etc)
Buy Striker 80m-100m (Icardi)
Net spend 120m only

So the changes we need will not be huge or we don't require another 300m but we need techincally apt playere who can play through the press.

New look team
Dalot De Ligt Smalling Shaw
Pogba De Jong Fred/Perriera/Herrera
Costa Martial/New striker Alexis/Martial.

If we want we can even play Martail uptop with Alexis on the left and buy a cheap option like Mandzukic etc, untill we find the proper striker who can play and take people. It will result in net spend of 20m to 30m max however the team will be transformed with young techinally apt players who will play beautiful football.

Classic post, massive numbers of outs and a handful of ins. Who is going to pay £50m for Lukaku, or £20m for Matic right now?

We also had a problem yesterday with no options on the bench, and yet you want to get rid of 9 and bring in 4.

Also, you managed to spell just about every name wrong.

 

[SCP]

Also, you managed to spell just about every name wrong

 

[Mainoldo]

£24m apparently with probably the additional lawyer fees.

 

[MJJ]

How much does it cost to fire Mourinho?

What's Mourinho's severance package?

Came here to post this.

 

[SCP]

Came here to post this.

Its a so called long term investment.

 

[el3mel]

Classic post, massive numbers of outs and a handful of ins. Who is going to pay £50m for Lukaku, or £20m for Matic right now?

We also had a problem yesterday with no options on the bench, and yet you want to get rid of 9 and bring in 4.

Also, you managed to spell just about every name wrong.

Everton.

 

[Litch]

Spend? One of the best players in the prem, looks bag average. One of the best young and French attacking talents, look bang average. A CB he bought, going backwards rapidly and the list goes on. Wouldn't give him a penny as he only wants to buy 29 year old in form players for stupid money.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

We need


RB - look how good cancelo was last night having at least one attacking fullback is vital to modern football.

CB - a trusted and experienced player, somebody that can partner Smalling.

DM - Matic is complete shit, need somebody faster and better on the ball.

CM - a box to box type player, Fred could do this yet he doesn’t get played for some reason.

RW - not had a proper one for years absolutely no threat from that side and teams know it.

2 ST (main and back up) - Lukaku is shit.


We need to sell loads first though but it’ll be hard getting rid of players.

 

[Murray3007]

Got to say we look miles away from the top sides, yes we got a good point at Chelsea but the 1st half was terrible, last night no difference, we just don't have enough urgency for me which is the biggest problem, Lukkau just don't cut it up top, would rather have Sanchez with Martial and Rashford and tell them to work there socks off, even if ur having a bad game and ur working hard it can help lift others. Matic just looks so out of form or over the hill its unreal, Pogba I would let go we have no idea how to get the best out of him every week. Dalot needs to be starting at RB every week now, Young/Valencia just look terrible and there crossing is terrible, Shaw would keep hes been our best player so far. the CB area is just not even worth discussing there that bad. would another manager get more from this crop of players ? maybe but unless its SAF it aint going to work wonders, we need a central core from the defence to striker. there' was plenty of players in the summer who would have improved our side and we didn't even look interested which is the biggest worry. Ed should have backed the manager or he should let him go.

 

[charlenefan]

£55-60m on a RB
£75-100m on a CB (even that may not be enough both in terms of money and number of CB's actually needed)
£80-150m on a wide right attacking player (who though god knows and so few top players play in that position)
£80-150m on a new CF (arguably)

 

[devilish]

Our expenditure must increase but not to the extent Mou is portraying it. What we need is a man with a plan. Someone who brings in young talent, he sticks to them and help build the infrastructure we need to move forward. Mou had spent 35m on Bailly, 20m on Dalot, 30m on Lindelof, 40m on Matic, 75m on Lukaku, 90m on Pogba and 50m on Fred. Despite all that, the defence is still in shambles, Fred is barely given a sniff of first team football, Matic has regressed, Lukaku had been dog shit this season, Pogba has yet to fully settle down and we still rely on makeshift wingers as fullbacks. That really doesn't sound right at all.

 

[Jacckk1985]

Simply don't care. It's not like our season/game ticket prices would depend on it, so it's the management's money to spend, the owners money. If they want success as we, the fans do, they have to spend for it. The sums are a no brainer here, it does depend on market situation and the club's value of the player we want to buy.

 

[Freak]

We need 2 proper centre backs as priority. Then a right winger. And finally a right back.

 

[Fracture90]

It's not a question of how much but rather how we should spend.

We have a manager who's primary targets are players in and past their prime, with backup options being pretty much the same. Which in on itself is not a sustainable model. Reason for that is because he's unable to shape and improve young players and is only capable to work with already established players.

Good example is when we went for Willian for 70 million , Chelsea were looking to replace him with Pulisic from Dortmund for the same money.

 

[Zlatattack]

Jose said the same thing today and I agree with him - https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...s/man-utd-juventus-mourinho-transfer-15320213

"A bit far," Mourinho said when asked how far off United were from Juve's level. "Juventus is champions for seven years, I think seven years in a row, two Champions League finals in the last four or five years and not happy with what they have, they want more, they want more.

"They had Higuain, Mandzukic, Dybala, they want more. They want Ronaldo. They had Barzagli, Chiellini, Rugani, they are not happy, they want more, they want Bonucci. And they go for the best players in the world.

"So big, big club with a big past but with also a big desire to have a big future and everything they put there to try to win, I don't say the Champions League, I think to win the treble, that's what they want. Because normally they win at home. But the treble until now, unfortunately for these fellows on the other side, is our [Internazionale's] treble, yet I think they are really close to it.

"To go to the Juventus level? Barcelona level? Real Madrid level? How can you reach that level?" Mourinho added to a follow-up question. "Manchester City level? How can you reach this level?

"Yes [with the best players]. Is not also easy. Because many of the players they belong to these top teams, so we work with what we have we try to improve with what we have. For example, today the way I say amazing Chiellini and amazing Bonucci, I have to say Chris and Victor had a very positive game.

"Is the first time Victor plays a game of this dimension, Victor had a positive game, Luke Shaw Champions League at this level of match, so good experience for some of the boys, Rashford, Martial, Lukaku, I think is second season he plays Champions League too. So we work, we work hard, we try to improve our players but quality is quality.

"And, again, I repeat quality in football is everywhere, when I say quality I don't say just a creative player or just a beautiful player, Chiellini and Bonucci beautiful, absolutely beautiful. But my boys, so happy with what they did."

=======

I've said it before - all the best teams have 22 first team players of top quality. We don't have a starting XI that can match. Man City, Real Madrid, Juventus, Barcelona, Bayern Munich - all have incredible strength in depth.

We don't have that across the board. We need to invest in our squad. If we buy duds we should move them on and replace them. Look at the turnover at City, look how many defenders and goalkeepers Pep bought before he had it right.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

A lot, quite possibly up to 300M more, as of right now I think City/Liverpool both have a better squad than we do, I don't think Chelsea,Arsenal or Tottenham do though, they're all lacking in at least one area just like we are.
To compete in Europe will be even tougher as PSG,Real Madrid,Barcelona,Bayern and Juventus are 5 more teams with arguably better teams on paper.

The options are there, we just need to grab them, Ndombele is a player who I believe suits the Premier League extremely well and if he can stop being lazy defensively he'd be really good in Jose's system. Timo Werner would be a great option as a striker because he's mobile and fast and since we don't exactly play possession football I think his shortcomings in that aspect of the game wouldn't be much of a problem.

Di lagt and De jong 120m

Last thing we need is to overpay for players from a mediocre league once again just to find out they're not up to the standarts of the Premier League.
I don't have anything against the prospect of getting the players in itself but they would cost way too much for the league they play in.

 

[Infra-red]

As others have said, it's not about "how much", it's about spending money more wisely. Woodward has allowed our player recruitment to descend in to absolute farce - we're spending fortunes on players who aren't good enough, only to have to replace the entire squad a few years later when the manager inevitably fails. There's no forethought or planning, it's just throwing mud at the wall.

 

[Zlatattack]

It's not a question of how much but rather how we should spend.

We have a manager who's primary targets are players in and past their prime, with backup options being pretty much the same. Which in on itself is not a sustainable model. Reason for that is because he's unable to shape and improve young players and is only capable to work with already established players.

Good example is when we went for Willian for 70 million , Chelsea were looking to replace him with Pulisic from Dortmund for the same money.

Maybe Willian is what we need? He has PL experience, he's a hard working RW who can contribute going forwards and backwards. You either back the manager or you bin him.

 

[El Zoido]

We need Saudi money unfortunately. Not a snowballs chance in hell the Glazers will spend what’s required.

 

[Raees]

For United, if they keep Jose in charge and Ed in charge of transfers, you could give these feckers £3billion and I guarantee you, we would still be sat there with our cocks in our hands with feck all progress.

 

[Fracture90]

I've said it before - all the best teams have 22 first team players of top quality. We don't have a starting XI that can match. Man City, Real Madrid, Juventus, Barcelona, Bayern Munich - all have incredible strength in depth.

We don't have that across the board. We need to invest in our squad. If we buy duds we should move them on and replace them. Look at the turnover at City, look how many defenders and goalkeepers Pep bought before he had it right.

But if we keep playing like shiit and if we keep buying dude, someone should be held responsible for that, right? Not to mention the lack of improvement .

 

[fellaini's barber]

Its not the money, its the dinosaur in charge

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Yelling relentlessly about spend is why we're in this mess. Grow some young guys on sensible salaries who want to give a bollock for the club, rinsing our wallets for "superstars" with nothing to play for has not worked.

 

[jontheblue]

Our expenditure must increase but not to the extent Mou is portraying it. What we need is a man with a plan. Someone who brings in young talent, he sticks to them and help build the infrastructure we need to move forward. Mou had spent 35m on Bailly, 20m on Dalot, 30m on Lindelof, 40m on Matic, 75m on Lukaku, 90m on Pogba and 50m on Fred. Despite all that, the defence is still in shambles, Fred is barely given a sniff of first team football, Matic has regressed, Lukaku had been dog shit this season, Pogba has yet to fully settle down and we still rely on makeshift wingers as fullbacks. That really doesn't sound right at all.

this ^^^^^

It can't make sense that several years after the manager's arrival, having spent all that money under his tenure, including what by any standards are absolutely huge investments into Sanchez, Pogba & Lukaku, there are suggestions by some that half the team still needs replacing. Surely other issues need addressing before spending more money on top signings that on the face of it, seem no more likely to work out well than the ones mentioned above ?

As was pointed out at the time Chelsea and City respectively started splashing the cash, yes it's great to be able to just buy another big money player if one doesn't work out, but there needs to also be a structured medium term plan, leaders in the dressing room, identity, etc because spending loads of money on big name signings doesn't alone build a successful team