Rugby 2018 Discussion

[kidbob]

Henshaw and Murray confirmed to be out. If Ringrose makes it then Aki and him should be fine but I've lost any confidence for this game since we learned that Murray probably wouldn't make it. Really need Sexton to be on top form in this one. Whatever happens though I don't think it will necessarily a big indicator on a World Cup game between the two. We are so well stocked in most positions but we badly need one of the scrum halves to make great strides and for Carberry to keep improving. Also is Chris Farrell back soon? Would be a good thing for him to be an option too.

I've heard rumours that Murray's absence is down to a mentality issue, anyone heard anything on this?

I'm against Zebo being ruled out just because he plays in France. The lad is a good player and more importantly has a tonne of experience which should benefit the likes of Larmour and Stockdale.

 

[Stick]

Yeah I agree. I think a game where you feck up the basics is a good grounder. Kearney is king of doing the right thing nearly all of the time. This battle kind of reminds me of the Dempsey vs Murphy battle years ago. I used to love seeing Murphy play for his brilliance with the ball in hand but Dempsey was just so consistent. I

 

[kidbob]

In a weird way, I think Larmour’s woes against the Argies make him even more likely to be a guaranteed starter in the WC. You couldn’t script a better wake up call for someone who was maybe finding it all a bit too easy up until that point.

Yep I honestly think it was an off day and it should do him good to have had one. He's no Kearney under the high ball but he's usually much more reliable than against Argentina. I hope it also stops this underrated of Kearney too. He ain't the most exciting most of the time but you need a guy in the squad who can perform their position efficiently and consistently. If one of the scrum halves can really step up and Carberry continues to improve then for the first World Cup ever (barring injuries) we will be nicely stacked in almost every position.

 

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In a weird way, I think Larmour’s woes against the Argies make him even more likely to be a guaranteed starter in the WC. You couldn’t script a better wake up call for someone who was maybe finding it all a bit too easy up until that point.

Himself, Ryan and Leavy have still lost astonishingly few games in their pro careers. Adversity is welcome and I think they'll rise to it.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Henshaw and Murray confirmed to be out. If Ringrose makes it then Aki and him should be fine but I've lost any confidence for this game since we learned that Murray probably wouldn't make it. Really need Sexton to be on top form in this one. Whatever happens though I don't think it will necessarily a big indicator on a World Cup game between the two. We are so well stocked in most positions but we badly need one of the scrum halves to make great strides and for Carberry to keep improving. Also is Chris Farrell back soon? Would be a good thing for him to be an option too.

I've heard rumours that Murray's absence is down to a mentality issue, anyone heard anything on this?

I'm against Zebo being ruled out just because he plays in France. The lad is a good player and more importantly has a tonne of experience which should benefit the likes of Larmour and Stockdale.

Not sure about that, but I would have been extremely wary of him trying to come back for this game. Get a few club games under the belt first and gradually build yourself up again.

 

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Yep I honestly think it was an off day and it should do him good to have had one. He's no Kearney under the high ball but he's usually much more reliable than against Argentina. I hope it also stops this underrated of Kearney too. He ain't the most exciting most of the time but you need a guy in the squad who can perform their position efficiently and consistently. If one of the scrum halves can really step up and Carberry continues to improve then for the first World Cup ever (barring injuries) we will be nicely stacked in almost every position.

Don't jinx it, fecking hell don't jinx it. Aki was nearly banjaxed and if it was another player he'd probably be out too.

And on that note, poor auld Sean O'Brien. Broken arm and out for an extended period yet again

 

[Stick]

Yep I honestly think it was an off day and it should do him good to have had one. He's no Kearney under the high ball but he's usually much more reliable than against Argentina. I hope it also stops this underrated of Kearney too. He ain't the most exciting most of the time but you need a guy in the squad who can perform their position efficiently and consistently. If one of the scrum halves can really step up and Carberry continues to improve then for the first World Cup ever (barring injuries) we will be nicely stacked in almost every position.

I think a year of playing at out half for Carberry and munster will really make him. If he stays relatively injury free he could have a great world cup.

 

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I think a year of playing at out half for Carberry and munster will really make him. If he stays relatively injury free he could have a great World Cup.

I'm delighted for him now at Munster and I hope he is too. He's got a great opportunity to grow.

 

[Stick]

I'm delighted for him now at Munster and I hope he is too. He's got a great opportunity to grow.

Ye I couldnt agree more. I think he was always a natural successor to Sexton in the international team but just wasnt getting the game time at club level. He has a fantastic chance now with a good munster team.

 

[Xaviesta]

On Sunday night Phil Waugh justified Michael Hooper's decisions to turn down 3 points in the pursuit of 7 points in Cardiff last weekend by pointing how in the Southern Hemisphere, we prefer captains to go for a try instead of 3 points, whereas in the Northern Hemisphere winning arm wrestles 9-6 like Wales did on the is what it's all about. I can't help but think Phil Waugh is misguided there.

Winning games is what we should be worried about but we have a Rugby Australia board director (Phil Waugh) and a Wallaby captain (Michael Hooper) who put tries and aesthetics above doing what needs to be done to win close tests.

 

[Stick]

On Sunday night Phil Waugh justified Michael Hooper's decisions to turn down 3 points in the pursuit of 7 points in Cardiff last weekend by pointing how in the Southern Hemisphere, we prefer captains to go for a try instead of 3 points, whereas in the Northern Hemisphere winning arm wrestles 9-6 like Wales did on the is what it's all about. I can't help but think Phil Waugh is misguided there.

Winning games is what we should be worried about but we have a Rugby Australia board director (Phil Waugh) and a Wallaby captain (Michael Hooper) who put tries and aesthetics above doing what needs to be done to win close tests.

I would think Waugh is trying to take some heat off Hooper. It was clearly a bad call. England made the same incorrect call against New Zealand. I think the Hooper call might actually be more forgivable because England took a drop goal at one stage early in the New Zealand match which meant that they were clearly looking to take as much points as possible whenever they got into the NZ 22 but then for an inexplicable reason they changed that tactic and kicked to touch from a good position in the second half.

Anyone read the article by a NZ journalist on Ireland pinching players from NZ? Apparently we're lining up players to fill positions for us and Bundee Aki is an example of this. I think it could be a bit rich coming from the NZ lads who do tend to pick from some of the pacific island teams.

 

[Xaviesta]

I would think Waugh is trying to take some heat off Hooper. It was clearly a bad call. England made the same incorrect call against New Zealand. I think the Hooper call might actually be more forgivable because England took a drop goal at one stage early in the New Zealand match which meant that they were clearly looking to take as much points as possible whenever they got into the NZ 22 but then for an inexplicable reason they changed that tactic and kicked to touch from a good position in the second half.

Anyone read the article by a NZ journalist on Ireland pinching players from NZ? Apparently we're lining up players to fill positions for us and Bundee Aki is an example of this. I think it could be a bit rich coming from the NZ lads who do tend to pick from some of the pacific island teams.

You're probably right although i was disappointed he went with Hemisphere stereotypes. SA beat France scoring 2 tries and 5 penalty goals on the weekend, even the All Blacks were prepared to take three points when on offer too.

Gregor Paul who wrote the article you're referencing. I stopped taking him somewhat seriously when he wrote an article this year about world rugby conspiring against New Zealand.

 

[Stick]

You're probably right although i was disappointed he went with Hemisphere stereotypes. SA beat France scoring 2 tries and 5 penalty goals on the weekend, even the All Blacks were prepared to take three points when on offer too.

Gregor Paul who wrote the article you're referencing. I stopped taking him somewhat seriously when he wrote an article this year about world rugby conspiring against New Zealand.

I think the argument that Waugh is making is flawed because good game management wins you games. Like the NZ try in the first half against England. A scrum in really wet conditions in the centre of the pitch in the 22 was a good option to take when ten points down and in need of a try because the way NZ backs and forwards make ground off of a set play the odds are very much in your favour that one of the english lads will slip and let you in. Still it was risky but proved the right call. What really gets me now is the difference between top sides in rugby is so small.

Ye arguing that Ireland are pinching All Blacks is a bit ridiculous and using the argument that Bundee Aki hardly grew up dreaming of playing for Ireland. It's a professional game. If i have a skillset that's marketable then I'm taking my skills where I can get the best money for them. If I like what I do then it's a bonus and if I like where I am even better. I think the fact that Aki has come over here and really performed brilliantly for Connacht and quallifed by residency is perfectly fine and I'm happy he's helping to improve Irish rugby in general by playing here. He took a different route to get to international rugby but who cares. We can all enjoy the way he plays the game.

 

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I think the argument that Waugh is making is flawed because good game management wins you games. Like the NZ try in the first half against England. A scrum in really wet conditions in the centre of the pitch in the 22 was a good option to take when ten points down and in need of a try because the way NZ backs and forwards make ground off of a set play the odds are very much in your favour that one of the english lads will slip and let you in. Still it was risky but proved the right call. What really gets me now is the difference between top sides in rugby is so small.

Ye arguing that Ireland are pinching All Blacks is a bit ridiculous and using the argument that Bundee Aki hardly grew up dreaming of playing for Ireland. It's a professional game. If i have a skillset that's marketable then I'm taking my skills where I can get the best money for them. If I like what I do then it's a bonus and if I like where I am even better. I think the fact that Aki has come over here and really performed brilliantly for Connacht and quallifed by residency is perfectly fine and I'm happy he's helping to improve Irish rugby in general by playing here. He took a different route to get to international rugby but who cares. We can all enjoy the way he plays the game.

We can enjoy the spirit he plays the game in too. He seems to feckin love it. He took a big risk moving over here and he's got a Pro 14 and a 6N to show for it, fair play to him.

 

[Stick]

We can enjoy the spirit he plays the game in too. He seems to feckin love it. He took a big risk moving over here and he's got a Pro 14 and a 6N to show for it, fair play to him.

I completely agree. His attitude and in general his personality is fantastic.

 

[RORY65]

I enjoy watching the likes of Aki and Stander play for Ireland and really admire how committed they now are but at the same time I don't actually think that it's right that they're playing for us. They moved to Ireland because they were offered good professional contracts and the IRFU allowed the provinces to sign them because they identified that they could become internationals, bringing an element of transfers/signing players to international sport which isn't what it should be about. It's not on the players to take a stand, it's completely understandable that they would take the offer of good money and a better chance of playing international rugby, but I think the IRFU shouldn't go after such options even if World Rugby continues to allow such situations to arise.

 

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Absolutely delighted for him.

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[Stick]

I enjoy watching the likes of Aki and Stander play for Ireland and really admire how committed they now are but at the same time I don't actually think that it's right that they're playing for us. They moved to Ireland because they were offered good professional contracts and the IRFU allowed the provinces to sign them because they identified that they could become internationals, bringing an element of transfers/signing players to international sport which isn't what it should be about. It's not on the players to take a stand, it's completely understandable that they would take the offer of good money and a better chance of playing international rugby, but I think the IRFU shouldn't go after such options even if World Rugby continues to allow such situations to arise.

Yeah I know where you're coming from and see your point. I think the IRFU have been very lucky/astute in the people they recruited with the likes of Stander, Aki and Payne all being really likeable top professionals. I like to see the best players compete and if they want to compete in an Irish/French/Aussie jersey after qualifying to play for that country then I don't have an issue with it.

 

[Xaviesta]

If an article could sum up the position the Wallabies find themselves in before their match against Italy, this is it: https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/11/15/lose-lose-for-the-wallabies-against-the-azzurri/

 

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Kearney and Toner in. Marmion fit to start

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[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah I know where you're coming from and see your point. I think the IRFU have been very lucky/astute in the people they recruited with the likes of Stander, Aki and Payne all being really likeable top professionals. I like to see the best players compete and if they want to compete in an Irish/French/Aussie jersey after qualifying to play for that country then I don't have an issue with it.

Out of interest, are we an outlier here? Or do most of the other countries we compete against adopt a similar approach? Haven't New Zealand, for example, been assimilating the cream of the Pacific islands rugby talent for decades?

 

[Stick]

Out of interest, are we an outlier here? Or do most of the other countries we compete against adopt a similar approach? Haven't New Zealand, for example, been assimilating the cream of the Pacific islands rugby talent for decades?

We're not an outlier. I think Scotland and England have used the resident rule for a few players. Nathan Hughes and Mako Vunipola both qualify through residency. Now granted Vunipola has played all his youth rugby in England and is hardly comparable to Aki but effectively Hughes is a similar situation to Aki and Stander. France have also used this rule for a few players with Scott Spedding and Rory Kockett coming to mind. Actually I don't think it's just isolated to Ireland at all if I bother my head looking. I can think of a few Scottish lads off the top of my head in Du Preez, Strauss and Visser.

To be fair it's such a niche sport with only a few players and a lot of injuries so I don't have a problem with players moving to other countries as professionals to make their money. If they legally represent that country under the RFU rules then I have no issue with it and it can only serve to up the games image in these countries and get more playing the game which is never a bad thing. I look at leinster in Ireland and the way they have captured the public interest if great. It's a great day out to go to a leinster game with your family and they have introduced great foreign influences to improve the Irish team.

 

[Xaviesta]

FAO Irish fans: Connor Murray is undeniably the best #9 in Ireland, how big is the gulf between he and the 2nd best #9 in Ireland?

 

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FAO Irish fans: Connor Murray is undeniably the best #9 in Ireland, how big is the gulf between he and the 2nd best #9 in Ireland?

Very big. For example, while Marmion generally does a grand job, the difference between their box kicking game was glaring against Argentina. He had one almost charged down and most gave no chance to our people following up. McGrath was similarly hearts-in-mouths stuff. And while Marmion also sniped a try last weekend, Murray is a far greater attacking threat. In terms of rugby intelligence, he's probably the smartest guy on the pitch and sees opportunities that others don't (in terms of play and the rulebook!). Added to that, he's a leader and he's become a good kicker and took pressure off Sexton when he was struggling with his back. There's just so much more he offers that the others can't.

Of the other two, McGrath has a lot to prove and Cooney (who also kicks goals well) is not getting a look in at the moment. Cooney may well be the best long-term successor at the moment and might be his backup by the time the world cup rolls around. Assuming Murray is going to get back to his best

 

[Xaviesta]

Very big. For example, while Marmion generally does a grand job, the difference between their box kicking game was glaring against Argentina. He had one almost charged down and most gave no chance to our people following up. McGrath was similarly hearts-in-mouths stuff. And while Marmion also sniped a try last weekend, Murray is a far greater attacking threat. In terms of rugby intelligence, he's probably the smartest guy on the pitch and sees opportunities that others don't (in terms of play and the rulebook!). Added to that, he's a leader and he's become a good kicker and took pressure off Sexton when he was struggling with his back. There's just so much more he offers that the others can't.

Of the other two, McGrath has a lot to prove and Cooney (who also kicks goals well) is not getting a look in at the moment. Cooney may well be the best long-term successor at the moment and might be his backup by the time the World Cup rolls around. Assuming Murray is going to get back to his best

Hopefully for Ireland's sake, Marmian plays a beauty. Ireland's proposed tour of NZ in 2022 is well worth looking forward to as long as both sides are in fine fettle when that roles around.

 

[SqueakyWeasel]

Think I'll watch the Repecharge Canada v Germany instead of England … really important match in terms of world rugby Germany looking up for it!

 

[Xaviesta]

Australia 14 Italy 0 at half time.

 

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Australia 14 Italy 0 at half time.

Well on track for that lose-lose so

 

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Another code of sport, but this is a big blow to Galway Hurling. His reasons are good though.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/1117/1011567-galways-jack-canning-to-make-australian-rugby-switch/

I'd hope if he decides to stick with it and is good enough that he'd come back to Connacht some day.

 

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[christy87]

Another code of sport, but this is a big blow to Galway Hurling. His reasons are good though.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/1117/1011567-galways-jack-canning-to-make-australian-rugby-switch/

I'd hope if he decides to stick with it and is good enough that he'd come back to Connacht some day.

If he makes it he has a real career in sports if he doesn’t he can always go back, why Australia though.

England hitting japan hard lol

 

[Xaviesta]

I can only hope Scotland vs SA and Ireland vs NZ are better than the match between Italy and Australia.

 

[ivaldo]

Japan are causing us a lot of problems.

 

[Xaviesta]

Thank goodness Italy's lineout is a mess.

 

[CallyRed]

Japan are playing very well

 

[Xaviesta]

Has Courtney infringed any of rugby's laws yet against Japan?

Sorry, that's a bit lame.

Italy vs Australia could have a nervy ending.

 

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If he makes it he has a real career in sports if he doesn’t he can always go back, why Australia though.

England hitting japan hard lol

It's in the article, he wants to see another way of life. Australia is (or at least last time I heard) a great place to go for opportunities. Still plenty of Irish heading over there.

 

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Japan leading at half time? Might have to switch this on.

 

[Camy89]

Anyone got a river for the England game? I don't have sky go etc on my laptop.

 

[Xaviesta]

Full time: Australia 26 Italy 7. Phew!