Had Van Gaal stayed... Would he have fared any worse than this?

[Hugh Jass]

The problem was not sacking Van Gaal the problem was replacing him with Mourinho. We needed to hire a progressive, attacking manager to add verticalality to Van Gaal's possession play.

This a hundred million percent. We went from one manager with a certain style to a manager with a completely different style.

 

[Rozay]

There is some merit in longevity at times, especially when developing young players. LVG was good with the kids, and it’s not inconceivable that he would have developed a team with more time and resources.

That said, we saw an opportunity to get Mourinho, who came with a guarantee of winning the league, at a point where we were struggling and trying to get back up. Perhaps we panicked a bit, not considering whether JM was the best fit, and just saw the dangling of a quick restoration to glory.

I don’t have the answers, none of the appointments have worked as we’d have liked so nobody can say for certain that one would not have gotten better if we persisted.

 

[shabz]

Van Gaal had a knack for winning against the teams around us but we were so poor against the lesser teams due to our slow build up and horizontal passing. Mourinho can not get this team to reach its potential and has lost the dressing room, he doesn't possess the attacking, free flowing approach this team could benefit from. Both managers would not get this team in to the top four.

 

[.Rossi]

No De Gea anyways

 

[Denis79]

No he didn't. We've made our worst start in 28 years or whatever it is this season

This is the worst we've been in a footballing sense but LvG served us the most boring football hands down. So I guess it's the discussion of which you value more as a fan, football cohesion or entertainment.

 

[Catt]

LvG deserved to be sacked back then and Mourinho deserves it now.

 

[deafepl]

If Klopp had to wait a few months longer before taking Liverpool jobs, he'd be with us right now but LVG got us top of the league by November, it wouldn't make a sense to replace him with Klopp instantly at the time.

 

[Ekeke]

With the same money same result. Moyes maybe even the same

 

[Mal donaghy]

The stars aligned all wrong , for pep or clippity to come to us , I know pep was offered the job after sir Alex but turned it down, we have always had to settle for second best manager due too unavailability or a rebuttal, even mourinho seemed like settling for the ugly sister cause cinders had gone!! (Panto season,I thank you).
Going back to the Op's question, it's like picking which way you have to die ! Both suck arse, cause you don't want death !
Maybe mourinho (death by hanging), Van Gall (death by Acupuncture!)

 

[Kostur]

They were exciting signings for the vast majority of us, if the memory serves. Just like Matic or Sanchez. Just saying.

Yeah and I didn't mind them to be fair, not having a pop at you either, only at those who for some reason come up with this narration that we'd have a squad of 18 year olds now if he stayed.

 

[Wumminator]

We would probably be better off.
He won us our best trophy since Fergie while lowering our wage bill, spending less than Mourinho and having literally over three times the injuries.

 

[ravi2]

When will "Had Moyes completed his 6 year plan, would we have won the league?" thread come ?

Exactly, a lot of revisionism going on in here recently.
Jose is awful but so were Moyes and LVG. They were all terrible in their own special ways.

 

[ravi2]

I always liked van Gaal and much of what he did during his time here. I thought it was a little harsh to sack the guy after winning the FA Cup, and I think he'd have improved us with more time.

Ultimately though, we needed Mourinho to phase out Rooney and entice some big names into the club. He has served a purpose, but in outstaying his welcome he is now causing damage that may be irreversible if the board don't act soon.

The short termism if the owners is the biggest issue, and I cant see anything changing because their interest is in finance and not footballing issues. Van Gaal wouldn't have made the difference we need.

The board isnt known for either being decisive or long term planning. Even when Jose leaves, serious issues remain here.

 

[Snow]

No he didn't. We've made our worst start in 28 years or whatever it is this season

Lazy stat. The season is 38 games. People aren't bothering looking up "worst period between matchday 4 and 20". Our pre-season was horrible, probably the worst I've seen as a supporter so it wasn't a major surprise that we started out badly.

LvG from match 8-23, that's 16 matches or the period of October-February, he won 5. There were four 0-0 results and 2 losses which we didn't manage to score a goal. So a 5-6-5 record (21/48 points) with a GD of 24-21 and 6 goalless games from our attack.

Coincidentally that's as many games as Mourinho has played this season so our worse ever start is still 5 points better than that period from LvG. Plus in the meantime he failed to qualify from the CL group consisting of PSV, Wolfsburg and CSKA Moscow.

 

[Rash Decision]

I think Van Gaal would be doing better with this set of players, at least purely by virtue of not actively sabotaging his players to make some sort of point to the board. He also had a more defined and proactive system that was more in keeping with today's football and that might have worked with better players.

Hard to say if he had continued from where he had left off though. Don't think he would have gotten players of the quality we currently have. He also had some history of falling out with players or losing his way and going into freefall at Barcelona and Bayern.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Yes.

 

[Class of 63]

May be he doesn't have the right players to unlock the defense for the so called lesser teams? Normally those teams park the bus against you guys in LVG's era. Not anymore under Mou.

Yeah but only because they can't get their bus past our bus on the pitch so there's no point

 

[beingshe7don]

You know the choice of manager is wrong when they use Fellaini as Plan A, B & C.

Moyes paid over the odds to get him
Van Gaal played him ahead of Schwientsteger, Schneiderlin
Jose got him extended for 2 more years with a pay raise.

That should be the barometer for choosing the next manager.

 

[Class of 63]

Based on what? Just because his surname is Giggs and he had a good career as a player for us?

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking....

 

[Roboc7]

LVG couldnt get us to compete in a league where the top teams were much weaker, he wouldn’t have made us any better.

The football was outdated and too negative, same as Moyes and Mourinho.

 

[POF]

Worth noting the stat halfway down this report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35211626

Man. United in 15/16 went TEN home games without scoring a first half goal.

Or even look like scoring one. Van Gaal did a terrible job. He was entrusted with a squad rebuild, spent a fortune and left the club with a weaker squad than the one he inherited.

Mourinho's recruitment has been largely positive. He has lost the squad but there is far more quality there now.

The other point that is really important to note is the improvement in the rest of the EPL teams since the Moyes and LVG days. City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and even Arsenal have improved significantly. City and Liverpool are (unfortunately) in the top echelon of teams in Europe. The next level of clubs like Everton, Wolves, West Ham and Watford are far better than a few years ago. Even Leicester have spent big money since winning the title. If Van Gaal was still in charge, United would genuinely be lucky to be top half.

Saying all of that, Jose isn't doing a good job. He should leave and the club needs a massive restructure.

 

[Kapardin]

We would be in the bottom half of the table. LvG wanted Lukaku and Mane. So on the bright side, we would have a legitimate RW (Mane), but conversely, neither he nor Lukaku would be able to play well under LvG, which means we won't even make up Zlatan's 28 goal tally in Jose's first season.

Would be 12th-13th in 2016-17 playing tumescent football, 40-50 league goals throughout the season.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Far too much revisionism on here regarding LvG these days. We were utter wank under him and watching our matches was an absolute chore. It's the exact same now but I certainly don't think we were or would have been any better off under him. What I will say though is, the Mourinho apologists on here are far worse than the LvG and handful of Moyes ones. They are the absolute worst.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Honestly, I started to think that we should have kept LVG for another year in order to develop both Rashford & Martial. Jose Mourinho didn't trust both players from the beginning, however LVG had faith in them and would probably going to build a team around them the season after he was fired.

 

[AgentP]

No. LVG was terrible. His signings were worse than Jose's. There were games where we didn't have a single shot on target.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

No. LVG was terrible. His signings were worse than Jose's. There were games where we didn't have a single shot on target.

I'm sorry, The OP was talking about LVG not Jose

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Honestly, I started to think that we should have kept LVG for another year in order to develop both Rashford & Martial. Jose Mourinho didn't trust both players from the beginning, however LVG had faith in them and would probably going to build a team around them the season after he was fired.

He would have at least tried to build a team with youth.

 

[POF]

Honestly, I started to think that we should have kept LVG for another year in order to develop both Rashford & Martial. Jose Mourinho didn't trust both players from the beginning, however LVG had faith in them and would probably going to build a team around them the season after he was fired.

Just like he developed Memphis and Januzaj? Rashford and Martial did well under him but who knows how sustainable that would be? They are young players so fluctuations in form is completely expected.

Rashford was hardly developed under LVG. He had a purple patch of a few months after he got a chance by complete fluke when LVG's preferred choices Nick Powell and Will Keane got injured.

 

[Smores]

He would have at least tried to build a team with youth.

Only if they were lucky enough to get in after injuries. He played some utter shite youth at times and it was all by chance rather than being ready or managed into the team.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Only if they were lucky enough to get in after injuries. He played some utter shite youth at times and it was all by chance rather than being ready or managed into the team.

Just as well we've progressed, eh?

 

[Paul778]

Jose best teams seem to rely on two things:

1. A defence that will snuff out a team and get a clean sheet most games
2. An attack (normally with a world class player or two) who can attack with pace and open defences with a high chance conversion rate (since they often won’t make many) in each and every game

We have neither (when you consider the EVERY game but).

We’ve been bleating on about Jones & Smalling on here for years. The fact that we’ve brought in two new ones and neither are definite starters is on Jose. As for the Forwards, Jose has coached out the fearlessness and no one is prepared to be seen to make a mistake. We only play well when 2-0 down and nothing to lose.

However I think we’d roughly be in the same place. Neither managers promote the type of football I’ve previously always known at Utd. I used to relish how strongly Utd would finish games when needing a goal, with relentless waves of pressure. Since SAF, all these games typically just end as damp squibs.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

I think we'd have a very different looking team, I don't think we'd have signed anyone that Mourinho has signed, and maybe Rooney would still be here too.

I think a 3rd LvG season would be worse than what we have now. Instead of a 3rd LvG season, we had Mourinho's 1st season which was rather good in terms of trophies, it looked like we were on the right path, at that time.


LvG lost his way in the 2nd half of the 2nd season. It seemed like he ditched the maximum-possession approach, and we just struggled through games with no style or distinguishable vision. We had no idea what the team was trying to do other than be gifted a goal. That game at Anfield where we nicked a 0-1 somehow was excruciating to watch. And then the 1st leg of the EL tie with Liverpool when they should have battered us silly if not for De Gea. Horrible to watch. There was some good progress in the 1st season towards the end, but he went backwards in the 2nd season, it seemed like the players were disillusioned by his methods, the damage done in a 3rd season could have been enormous. It would be worse than what we have now IMO, but if what we have now carries on much longer I think the damage could be irreparable. Our better players are going to want out, and they're reaching critical stages in their contracts where the club will begin to lose control of that situation.

The club needs to act before the season ends, or else we'll be set back another several years. The Moyes season is still the worst post-Fergie year to date, but I think if Mourinho sees out this season as he currently is doing, the damage he leaves behind will be far worse.

 

[Patrick08]

The problem was not sacking Van Gaal the problem was replacing him with Mourinho. We needed to hire a progressive, attacking manager to add verticalality to Van Gaal's possession play.

Though, I though mourinho would make better decisions in the market and playing wise than he has done since last year. Completely lost his plot after he signed a new contract last January. Screwed a great opportunity and committed same mistakes again which I thought hed learn from what happened in the past. Such a waste.

 

[Smores]

Just as well we've progressed, eh?

Well we've progressed and regressed but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make or what it has to do witb your original point?

I'll assume it's on the lines of if we're going to be languishing we may as well give random youth a chance? I disagree, i don't want youth randomly in and out like LvG did whist randomly excluding others completely. It's no way to progress especially when what they were learning is mostly how to pass backwards

 

[Foxtrot]

Agree, mostly. If Van Gaal were to have stayed on and given the likes of Pogba, Sanchez, Matic and (yes) Lukaku - to the tune of £400 million - he would be performing considerably better than we do now. It's actually inconceivable to argue otherwise. We were never this bad. Or this clueless.

This isn't saying much at all, but Van Gaal has been our best manager since Ferguson by a margin. Mourinho quite comfortably the biggest failure. Primarily due to the outlay, the horrific football, the poisonous atmosphere throughout the club and (ding, ding, ding!) the fecking results.

We wanted to be the better when Van Gaal was in charge. Mourinho has never understood that.

feck it. I liked Van Gaal. That warm feeling remains even though I wanted him out.

You think Mourinho is the biggest failure comparing to Moyes and Van Gaal? If you do, you need to have a word with yourself. Moyes was sacked before the season ended. We ended up finishing in 7th and had so many record of embarrassing defeats. I like Van Gaal but he never brought us to any position above fourth. Mourinho won us the Europa League and League Cup in his first season with us, finished second last season. This season is a disaster, no denying but calling him the biggest failure is extreme.

I like Van Gaal only because he had a 100% league record against Liverpool and with him, you always get the feeling we will always deliver in the big games and his record in the big matches speaks for itself. However, Mourinho is still better than him by quite a fair margin.

 

[acnumber9]

All this ignores that we wouldn’t have this squad if he’d stayed. Look at the absolute dross he signed while he was here. We’re not much better now but some of the worst players left in this squad where those signed under Van Gaal.

 

[Patrick08]

I think with new players Lvg would be better than this, but no where near title.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Just like he developed Memphis and Januzaj? Rashford and Martial did well under him but who knows how sustainable that would be? They are young players so fluctuations in form is completely expected.

Rashford was hardly developed under LVG. He had a purple patch of a few months after he got a chance by complete fluke when LVG's preferred choices Nick Powell and Will Keane got injured.

You are missing the point. The point is that LVG would have given both Rashford and Martial more playing time than what Jose has given them. Young players are inconsistent, I don’t disagree with that but by giving them a lot of games time that also another way to develop players.

Both Memphis and Januzaj were never good enough for us. You are using poor example of players.

 

[SSSSnake]

The only thing I miss from LVG is his death stare to the press.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I know it's a terribly unpopular opinion but I don't think Van Gaal was all bad.

Incredibly boring at times, yes. Loads of home draws that were meant to change under Mourinho (and they did for a short period), yes. Arguing with players (as if it hasn't happened since), yes. Asking players to study things that aren't all pictures and have some letters in them, yes. 'Philosophy' and 'process', yes. Ultra ego (sounds familiar), yes.

BUT

We did have some sort of football identity, system and coherence. He did make Smalling and Blind look incredibly solid partnership for a season, introduced Rashford and got the best out of Martial. Some fringe players were looking decent enough, too.

What we lacked the most was absolute top quality in attacking positions. I think his system demands the forwards to be of the highest order, otherwise every move is finished up the opposition half, rinse and repeat. Needed that something extra to make it unpredictable. Should've also played it more humble and listened to the fans more.

What I know is that I've never seen us playing at Anfield the way we did under him. Total, utter control, almost robot-like plus some wonderful football on display. Before someone calls it coincidence - it's not. Controlling the game because of the right system is not a coincidence. Winning by jammy goals despite being under the cosh for 90 minutes can be called lucky but it was anything but. He had this string of great games (City at home, too) where we looked, the only time since Fergie, like we were going to become a genuinely good team. Great quality and control.

It finished quickly for some reason, some changes in personnel were introduced and perhaps he himself messed it up.

I just think that with him it would've been easier to improve. The system was there, with the right additions it may have worked perhaps. Now it looks a total chaos with no quality whatsoever. I don't even know where to start with. What to improve? The foundations under him were more solid I think. Turning 0-0s into wins is easier (imo) than fixing the mess we see now.

I may be talking out of my bumhole so feel free to point that out, it's just opinion.

Yes. For the simple reason he'd have completed the rebuilding job, of which he had just a year left. Leaving the team ready for a manager like Mourinho. Now we are stuck with a half way house due to our poor strategic planning.