Agreed.This a hundred million percent. We went from one manager with a certain style to a manager with a completely different style.
We don't have a poor squad, we have poor coaching and poor tactics which doesn't suit the squad.Yes. For the simple reason he'd have completed the rebuilding job, of which he had just a year left. Leaving the team ready for a manager like Mourinho. Now we are stuck with a half way house due to our poor strategic planning.
Rather we have a very imbalanced squad. Which is typical of a half done rebuild job.We don't have a poor squad, we have poor coaching and poor tactics which doesn't suit the squad.
No.Weather lvg completed his rebuild or not, mourinho's would have always failed with the same squad.
For JM its not even stubborness. The job is just not suited to him. Ironically the kind if United job Moyes took over would have suited him better. Due to how many experiences pros we had.Both managers showed stubbornness tactically and that led to downfall.
Why were they never good enough for us? They had potential if they were developed correctly but LVG didn't do that. It's lazy to just write them off, especially Memphis, as never going to be good enough just to dodge the question of why LVG didn't get the best out of them. why didn't he bring Zaha back and give him a chance either? The whole "LVG was great for youth" line is over played. He fluked it with Rashford and that was it.You are missing the point. The point is that LVG would have given both Rashford and Martial more playing time than what Jose has given them. Young players are inconsistent, I don’t disagree with that but by giving them a lot of games time that also another way to develop players.
Both Memphis and Januzaj were never good enough for us. You are using poor example of players.
Who did that apply too? I seem to recall LVG shared out the minutes with our Youth and trusted them to fill in as squad options when we got injuries. Don't recall anyone being ignored?Well we've progressed and regressed but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make or what it has to do witb your original point?
I'll assume it's on the lines of if we're going to be languishing we may as well give random youth a chance? I disagree, i don't want youth randomly in and out like LvG did whist randomly excluding others completely. It's no way to progress especially when what they were learning is mostly how to pass backwards
15/16 Season - LVG 2nd Season:Where are all those youngsters van Gaal gave a chance to?
Giving players more minutes isn't developing them. Fergie very carefully planned how he used young players, identifying the talented ones and playing them strategically. Knowing when to leave them out was equally as important as playing them.You are missing the point. The point is that LVG would have given both Rashford and Martial more playing time than what Jose has given them. Young players are inconsistent, I don’t disagree with that but by giving them a lot of games time that also another way to develop players.
Both Memphis and Januzaj were never good enough for us. You are using poor example of players.
The 2 that surprised me at the time were Pereira and Tuanzebe. The surprise was from a time when I thought LVG was a top class developer of youth and before I realised that he was a crazy ego maniac.Who did that apply too? I seem to recall LVG shared out the minutes with our Youth and trusted them to fill in as squad options when we got injuries. Don't recall anyone being ignored?
He went strong for Ramos and Hummels. Hummels didnt want to join because we had no CL thanks to Dave. Shame that, could have been a real game changer back then.LVG is a better manager than he gets credit for. Got us playing in a particular structure for the first time since Fergie had left but was handicapped by the team at his disposal. So many injuries he was relying on kids and that was the reason for the poor performances but people don't like to see that.
Almost got us Ramos so he knew what he was doing.
Tuanzebe was 17 in 15/16 so understandable he didn't get a chance. He was on the bench twice that year so imagine he'd have got minutes in LvGs 3rd Season. Fosu-Mensah got his chance as he had a very good physique for his age. Pereira got minutes (see above), the problem he had was our midfielders remained fit for the majority of the season, he was a regular on the bench.The 2 that surprised me at the time were Pereira and Tuanzebe. The surprise was from a time when I thought LVG was a top class developer of youth and before I realised that he was a crazy ego maniac.
The season he was about to get Chelsea relegated?Mourinho would have won the league in 2015-16.
Mourinho would have won the league in 2015-16.
The season he was about to get Chelsea relegated?
Van Gaal was a bit strange. He obviously had his favourites but if you were one of his favourites, he would give you every chance as a young player.15/16 Season - LVG 2nd Season:
19YO - Anthony Martial - 4128mins
22YO - Jesse Lingard - 2880mins
21YO - Memphis Depay - 2464mins - Lyon
17YO - Marcus Rashford - 1415mins
18YO - Cameron Borthwick-Jackson - 964mins
22YO - Guillermo Varela - 896mins - Peñarol
19YO - Luke Shaw - 654mins
17YO - Tim Fosu-Mensah - 404mins
20YO - Paddy McNair - 400mins - Middlesbrough
19YO - Andreas Pereira - 371mins
20YO - Adnan Januzaj - 261mins - Real Sociedad
20YO - Donald Love - 143mins - Sunderland
18YO - Joe Riley - 123mins - Bradford
19YO - James Wilson - 52mins
21YO - Nick Powell - 37mins - Wigan
22YO - Will Keane - 23mins - Hull City
From that list, you could argue that Januzaj should have had more of a chance given he's done ok at Real Sociedad. But the lad had underperformed for us and had reported attitude problems. Interesting that Pereira got minutes, I don't remember him playing for LvG.
He wasn't really about to get them relegated and yes, with that little competition at the top of Premier League he would have won it with United teams from 2016-17 or 2017-18.The season he was about to get Chelsea relegated?
Martial would be up a notch or two in his career progression under LVG. But we'd probably have also signed inconsistent wingers to play possession football.Van Gaal was a bit strange. He obviously had his favourites but if you were one of his favourites, he would give you every chance as a young player.
Despite making a complete fool of himself that season. What was so great about our 15/16 team? Was it a better squad than we have now?He wasn't really about to get them relegated and yes, with that little competition at the top of Premier League he would have won it with United teams from 2016-17 or 2017-18.
He's really had two halves of bad PL results so far during all his Chelsea and United spells. Chelsea 15-16 and United now.
Wasnt it Jose himself who warned us? He said himself, we need defenders or we'll have a tough season.He had to get sacked. Most clubs make more wrong appointments than right ones, it's just that we're too stupid to not move on from them at the right time.
Had we sacked Mourinho in the summer, how would his tenure have looked? It's just that we were too stupid to see what was coming this season, and should've moved on from him this summer.
He was a mess at that Chelsea team like he is a mess now.Despite making a complete fool of himself that season. What was so great about our 15/16 team? Was it a better squad than we have now?
You're like that sane poster who loses his mind on just one topic.
He didn't tell us he'll manage like some drunken hobo this season if we didn't sign the odd CB.Wasnt it Jose himself who warned us? He said himself, we need defenders or we'll have a tough season.
He was sacked after Chelseas 16th Game. They were 1 point and 2 GD away from being in the relegation zone.He wasn't really about to get them relegated
It had enough quality to beat a Mourinho United team given it doesn't take all that much. Also, in 15/16 he would have been Mourinho of 15/16. Mourinho of 15/16 does not win a league title. Nor does the ones after that, sadly but that was his absolute worst version.He was a mess at that Chelsea team like he is a mess now.
It wasn't a better squad but that league had no quality whatsoever at the top. All teams were bad.
So there were still 22 games to go. They wouldn't have been relegated.He was sacked after Chelseas 16th Game. They were 1 point and 2 GD away from being in the relegation zone.
As I said, Mourinho's United from 17-18 and probably 16-17 would have won that league. Current team wouldn't. Unless he managed to make a complete mess of that team in his first season - which he never does - then we would have had a great chance.It had enough quality to beat a Mourinho United team given it doesn't take all that much. Also, in 15/16 he would have been Mourinho of 15/16. Mourinho of 15/16 does not win a league title. Nor does the ones after that, sadly but that was his absolute worst version.
LVG was just well past it. He was too poor at United for it ever work IMO. His signings, his style of play, his favourites, it was all a bloody mess.I don’t think LVG works well in a Galactico type of environment, not with his personality anyway. I think he prefers his squads to be consisted of lots of emphasis on blooding young talent with experienced talents who had no egos.
For every Seedorf and Kluivert, he had Blind and Rijkaard
For every Xavi and Iniesta, he had Guardiola and Ferrer
Towards the end of his Utd reign, he got a little bit of credibility back with me with the pushing of Rashford, Lingard and using Martial with them. Rashford could have developed more under him but who knows really...
No, and whether or not he was been doing that is a matter of opinion. Hes clearly been trying to bring a more attacking style to our play, its not worked very well for a number of reasons, the most glaring is being poor at the back. We bought a kid, a backup for a back up and fred. In what universe is that investing for success?He didn't tell us he'll manage like some drunken hobo this season if we didn't sign the odd CB.
They were in danger of it. They'd already lost 9 games which was more than all clubs except Villa and Sunderland. They were truly horrific that season. I agree it's unlikely they would have, but who knows. All we do know is that under Jose in that Season they were playing like relegation candidates.So there were still 22 games to go. They wouldn't have been relegated.
Okay, it's a weird and irrelevant point to make.As I said, Mourinho's United from 17-18 and probably 16-17 would have won that league. Current team wouldn't. Unless he managed to make a complete mess of that team in his first season - which he never does - then we would have had a great chance.
Spot on. Hilarious..Yeah but only because they can't get their bus past our bus on the pitch so there's no point
I still can't believe that he spent 350 million euros and we basically ended up with Shaw, Martial, Romero, Rojo and Darmian and Herrera. Rojo and Darmian who will probably leave this Summer.LVG was just well past it. He was too poor at United for it ever work IMO. His signings, his style of play, his favourites, it was all a bloody mess.
The only positives were his treatment of young players, the improvement of our defence and our ball retention. The actual football, our attack and how his signings worked out was abysmal.