Mourinho would have won the league in 2015-16.
Had Van Gaal stayed... Would he have fared any worse than this?
- Thread starter Tomuś
- Start date
Agreed.
I'd go one step further: We needed a progressive attacking manager known for completing rebuild jobs post Van Gaal.
We don't have a poor squad, we have poor coaching and poor tactics which doesn't suit the squad.
Weather lvg completed his rebuild or not, mourinho's would have always failed with the same squad.
Both managers showed stubbornness tactically and that led to downfall.
No doubt in my mind had LVG stayed we would be in much better shape as the team he had only needed a few elements added to it and it would have been fine. I’d happily wager that his team would be a lot more youthful and exciting with some of the names we were linked to before his departure.
Rather we have a very imbalanced squad. Which is typical of a half done rebuild job.
No.
LVG if he had finished is work would have left behind a balanced squad ready to challenge, just missing a superstar to lead it. Which is what a Mourinho can manage best.
For JM its not even stubborness. The job is just not suited to him. Ironically the kind if United job Moyes took over would have suited him better. Due to how many experiences pros we had.
Why were they never good enough for us? They had potential if they were developed correctly but LVG didn't do that. It's lazy to just write them off, especially Memphis, as never going to be good enough just to dodge the question of why LVG didn't get the best out of them. why didn't he bring Zaha back and give him a chance either? The whole "LVG was great for youth" line is over played. He fluked it with Rashford and that was it.
Where are all those youngsters van Gaal gave a chance to?
Who did that apply too? I seem to recall LVG shared out the minutes with our Youth and trusted them to fill in as squad options when we got injuries. Don't recall anyone being ignored?
15/16 Season - LVG 2nd Season:
19YO - Anthony Martial - 4128mins
22YO - Jesse Lingard - 2880mins
21YO - Memphis Depay - 2464mins - Lyon
17YO - Marcus Rashford - 1415mins
18YO - Cameron Borthwick-Jackson - 964mins
22YO - Guillermo Varela - 896mins - Peñarol
19YO - Luke Shaw - 654mins
17YO - Tim Fosu-Mensah - 404mins
20YO - Paddy McNair - 400mins - Middlesbrough
19YO - Andreas Pereira - 371mins
20YO - Adnan Januzaj - 261mins - Real Sociedad
20YO - Donald Love - 143mins - Sunderland
18YO - Joe Riley - 123mins - Bradford
19YO - James Wilson - 52mins
21YO - Nick Powell - 37mins - Wigan
22YO - Will Keane - 23mins - Hull City
From that list, you could argue that Januzaj should have had more of a chance given he's done ok at Real Sociedad. But the lad had underperformed for us and had reported attitude problems. Interesting that Pereira got minutes, I don't remember him playing for LvG.
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Giving players more minutes isn't developing them. Fergie very carefully planned how he used young players, identifying the talented ones and playing them strategically. Knowing when to leave them out was equally as important as playing them.
Giggs was identified as a first team player years before his debut. He didn't get his chance because Russell Beardsmore and Simon Davies were injured and Lee Sharpe withdrew in the warm up.
LVG signed Memphis and gave him the number 7 shirt. He's a perfect example of LVG's inability to identify top class young talent or to develop it.
If you throw in numerous young players, a couple are bound to work out. Unfortunately, results will suffer while the likes of Paddy McNair, Tyler Blackett and Donald Love are stinking up the place. Just remember, he gave debuts to James Weir and Regan Poole. Weir makes McTominay look like Ronaldinho.
LVG is a better manager than he gets credit for. Got us playing in a particular structure for the first time since Fergie had left but was handicapped by the team at his disposal. So many injuries he was relying on kids and that was the reason for the poor performances but people don't like to see that.
Almost got us Ramos so he knew what he was doing.
Almost got us Ramos so he knew what he was doing.
The 2 that surprised me at the time were Pereira and Tuanzebe. The surprise was from a time when I thought LVG was a top class developer of youth and before I realised that he was a crazy ego maniac.
He went strong for Ramos and Hummels. Hummels didnt want to join because we had no CL thanks to Dave. Shame that, could have been a real game changer back then.
Tuanzebe was 17 in 15/16 so understandable he didn't get a chance. He was on the bench twice that year so imagine he'd have got minutes in LvGs 3rd Season. Fosu-Mensah got his chance as he had a very good physique for his age. Pereira got minutes (see above), the problem he had was our midfielders remained fit for the majority of the season, he was a regular on the bench.
You look down that list above and a lot of them are defenders.
If you gave LVG the players Mourinho has added I think he would do better. But his transfer business was pretty crap. Mourinho had been better at this while being terrible at the coaching/player development bit.
The only regret wrt LVG is that I think our development / integration of the younger lot would be much better.
The season he was about to get Chelsea relegated?
Van Gaal was a bit strange. He obviously had his favourites but if you were one of his favourites, he would give you every chance as a young player.
He wasn't really about to get them relegated and yes, with that little competition at the top of Premier League he would have won it with United teams from 2016-17 or 2017-18.
He's really had two halves of bad PL results so far during all his Chelsea and United spells. Chelsea 15-16 and United now.
Martial would be up a notch or two in his career progression under LVG. But we'd probably have also signed inconsistent wingers to play possession football.
He was as much a dinosaur as the current dinosaur.
And he turned his back on Kroos. So feck him.
And he turned his back on Kroos. So feck him.
Despite making a complete fool of himself that season. What was so great about our 15/16 team? Was it a better squad than we have now?
You're like that sane poster who loses his mind on just one topic.
At least with Mourinho we've got some players the next manager should be able to work with. That's I suppose the benefit of having a manager who does some good things in the market but doesn't coach /manage very well.
Wasnt it Jose himself who warned us? He said himself, we need defenders or we'll have a tough season.
He was a mess at that Chelsea team like he is a mess now.
It wasn't a better squad but that league had no quality whatsoever at the top. All teams were bad.
And I want Jose gone as soon as possible btw.
He didn't tell us he'll manage like some drunken hobo this season if we didn't sign the odd CB.
He was sacked after Chelseas 16th Game. They were 1 point and 2 GD away from being in the relegation zone.
I don’t think LVG works well in a Galactico type of environment, not with his personality anyway. I think he prefers his squads to be consisted of lots of emphasis on blooding young talent with experienced talents who had no egos.
For every Seedorf and Kluivert, he had Blind and Rijkaard
For every Xavi and Puyol, he had Guardiola and Ferrer
Towards the end of his Utd reign, he got a little bit of credibility back with me with the pushing of Rashford, Lingard and using Martial with them. Rashford could have developed more under him but who knows really...
For every Seedorf and Kluivert, he had Blind and Rijkaard
For every Xavi and Puyol, he had Guardiola and Ferrer
Towards the end of his Utd reign, he got a little bit of credibility back with me with the pushing of Rashford, Lingard and using Martial with them. Rashford could have developed more under him but who knows really...
It had enough quality to beat a Mourinho United team given it doesn't take all that much. Also, in 15/16 he would have been Mourinho of 15/16. Mourinho of 15/16 does not win a league title. Nor does the ones after that, sadly but that was his absolute worst version.
The should we have sacked moyes or LVG question really shows how short some memories are. Moyes turned is into everton, and not the everton of today. The everton of 2013/14. Lvg was so dull united went game after game after game without even a shot on goal never mind on target. Sorry but they both needed to be sacked. And worse they both needed to be sacked a lot sooner than they were.
So there were still 22 games to go. They wouldn't have been relegated.
As I said, Mourinho's United from 17-18 and probably 16-17 would have won that league. Current team wouldn't. Unless he managed to make a complete mess of that team in his first season - which he never does - then we would have had a great chance.
LVG was just well past it. He was too poor at United for it ever work IMO. His signings, his style of play, his favourites, it was all a bloody mess.
The only positives were his treatment of young players, the improvement of our defence and our ball retention. The actual football, our attack and how his signings worked out was abysmal.
No, and whether or not he was been doing that is a matter of opinion. Hes clearly been trying to bring a more attacking style to our play, its not worked very well for a number of reasons, the most glaring is being poor at the back. We bought a kid, a backup for a back up and fred. In what universe is that investing for success?
They were in danger of it. They'd already lost 9 games which was more than all clubs except Villa and Sunderland. They were truly horrific that season. I agree it's unlikely they would have, but who knows. All we do know is that under Jose in that Season they were playing like relegation candidates.
Okay, it's a weird and irrelevant point to make.
So the only way Mourinho wins the league is if he takes a team from one year and gets to play in another year all the while himself not being the manager he was during the actual year itself. Damn, some of you go to great lengths to big him up.
Spot on. Hilarious.
.Hold on a second, our United team who ended up with 69 points in 16/17 and finished 6th or something would have beaten Liecester to the title? Come one now 
I still can't believe that he spent 350 million euros and we basically ended up with Shaw, Martial, Romero, Rojo and Darmian and Herrera. Rojo and Darmian who will probably leave this Summer.
We could however be saying the same thing about Joses' transfers in two years time under a new boss. I mean you look at his signings and none of them right now are looking like guaranteed first teamers for years to come.