I just say this documentary.
What's everyone's thoughts?
What's everyone's thoughts?
Why British Asians don't make it pro
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When I was at school back in the 90s, after a certain age (about 13) most of the kids from Indian and Pakistani families didn't really play much football. Cricket was king.
Same. They just weren't really interested, and their communities weren't involved with the local clubs the way most were.
Looking at my circle of friends, I think cultural factors are heavily at play, most of my asian friends prefer cricket or were not actively into playing football (just watching/following it)
I’ve often wondered exactly why this is, outside of the (probably) stereotypical view that many Asian families prioritise education ahead of sports. The numbers (and I think this is applicable to sport as a whole) are staggeringly low considering the percentage of British Asians we have in society. Cricket has a presence, probably due to its popularity in the countries many British Asians descend from, but that’s about it. Will watch this with interest.
I think the culture and families put more focus on schooling and a guaranteed route to success than the extremely difficult road of being a pro footballer.
I had a few friends who's family made them give up sports expect for like unorganized pickups cause even training 1/2x a week and a match on sunday interfered with studying.
I had a few friends who's family made them give up sports expect for like unorganized pickups cause even training 1/2x a week and a match on sunday interfered with studying.
I played with many asian players when I was younger and still do in 5 a side. Its not just that they are not interested. There are other factors at play
Haven't yet watched the video (I will, thanks for sharing).
I was captain for my U12's primary school team. Even at that young age I realized very quickly I just completely out of my depth. When it became obvious extra curricular activities would be more difficult at high school, I didn't bother. The stereotypes about education were what I experienced. I remember I wanted to study art for GCSE and my mother didn't sound convinced. I ended up on a different path that whilst I don't 100% enjoy, I remain content.
I was captain for my U12's primary school team. Even at that young age I realized very quickly I just completely out of my depth. When it became obvious extra curricular activities would be more difficult at high school, I didn't bother. The stereotypes about education were what I experienced. I remember I wanted to study art for GCSE and my mother didn't sound convinced. I ended up on a different path that whilst I don't 100% enjoy, I remain content.
You have to sacrifice a lot in terms of time and education to make it as a professional footballer. You have to be extremely lucky or special, if you get signed up by your local clubs youth set up. For a lot of guys, it's often having to either relocate or make 2 h round trips for training and playing for a club that gives you a chance.
British Asian households and parents, are usually not that happy for their kids to sacrifice so much for a long shot at making a career for themselves.
British Asian households and parents, are usually not that happy for their kids to sacrifice so much for a long shot at making a career for themselves.
I played a seven a side tournament in Cambridge last year and there were several teams comprising mainly of Asian/Muslim lads, some of them really decent players (relative to the tournament standard). I’ve always wondered why more don’t make it into pro football. Did we not have a British Asian lad in our academy not so long ago?
I grew up in a high Asian populated area and whilst we often played football against each other as kids they were more focused on cricket to be honest. They mainly play football casually whilst actually being on cricket teams.
It's changing a little more recently. There's Hamza Chowdhury at Leicester and Suliman at Villa who have represented England at youth level.
Theres an old joke I heard when I was a kid
Why do Indians not play football?
Because every time they get a corner they open a shop
From what I’ve read and talked about with Asian lads there is a little truth in that being business minded is always priority (or medical route if smart enough)
Why do Indians not play football?
Because every time they get a corner they open a shop
From what I’ve read and talked about with Asian lads there is a little truth in that being business minded is always priority (or medical route if smart enough)
Same here,
It used to be that way for West Indian kids too, at least the ones where I used to live. That changed in the 70s and 80s.
It used to be that way for West Indian kids too, at least the ones where I used to live. That changed in the 70s and 80s.
When I lived in England I played with a group of Asian lads, some of them were technically excellent but just didn't continue playing due to a number of reasons despite being at respected academies (West Ham and West Brom). Education and family pressure but also they grew up in an era where pace and power were more useful to scouts than technical ability, and that's where a lot of Asians fall behind purely genetically and why for example black players are overly represented in football.
Problem is the parents.
Education over both football & cricket - however if a child is capable of going in to pro sports - then would likely get support towards cricket than football.
This won't be a problem for too long though. The thing with young Asian people from this generation is that when they are young say age 4-11; they watch more cricket than football due to the parents themselves watching it more than football.
After the age of 11 & high school - the Asian guys get interested in watching & playing football - but has unfortunately gotten in to playing it & appreciating it too late. They lack the practice that alpt of players have had from a young age.
I had couple friends who had trials at spurs & Chelsea who were Asian but didn't make the grade because of a pure lack of practice & sharpness that comes with years of practice.
This will change the next generation though - as the kids that have started to appreciate football at age 11 will grow up & have kids themselves that get in to & watch football at an early age of 4.
For example - a kid who grew up with a parent that liked cricket would hardly make the grade. But that kid who ends up watching football at a later stage will more likely support their young ones in football when that time comes around.
Education over both football & cricket - however if a child is capable of going in to pro sports - then would likely get support towards cricket than football.
This won't be a problem for too long though. The thing with young Asian people from this generation is that when they are young say age 4-11; they watch more cricket than football due to the parents themselves watching it more than football.
After the age of 11 & high school - the Asian guys get interested in watching & playing football - but has unfortunately gotten in to playing it & appreciating it too late. They lack the practice that alpt of players have had from a young age.
I had couple friends who had trials at spurs & Chelsea who were Asian but didn't make the grade because of a pure lack of practice & sharpness that comes with years of practice.
This will change the next generation though - as the kids that have started to appreciate football at age 11 will grow up & have kids themselves that get in to & watch football at an early age of 4.
For example - a kid who grew up with a parent that liked cricket would hardly make the grade. But that kid who ends up watching football at a later stage will more likely support their young ones in football when that time comes around.
This is an excellent point. Exposure helps a great deal. Its so underestimated the influence Hamilton (F1), Murray (Tennis) and Rooney had on the young kids. All the youngsters want to be like Pogba (Manc :P) now.
What other factors out of interest??
Culture, Religion and traditional Asian parental views belongs in the 80's and is stereotype. These communities have been here that long that we are now talking about children's children of British born parents. If there were players out there of ability, the clubs would make it there busy to find them. There aren't many is purely a numbers one. The percentage is low of non white British born players anyway so it's an even a shallower pool to start with. Irrespective of your culture or colour, you still have to be good, and the more that are, the more chance of them coming through. The percentage of those good enough to play professional of any colour is probably less than 1% of those playing anyway....
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Exposure is the right word. This generation has not been exposed to it too early & often too late. I speak to Asian guys & after age of 11 they all end up favouring football over cricket to the point they don't even enjoy cricket anymore.
The generation that follow on from these guys will be exposed to football early because of their parents loving it & then they will break through - at least more than we see now.
Iranians have very low points of gravity. Hard to tackle without falling over them.
See the video though and the lecturer there mentions how blaming it on parents alone isn't a good idea, especially nowadays. Things have changed it seems and it might be down to other factors. Something else to consider too.
I've noticed across different interviews from pro footballers how important it is to have a supportive family member behind them. All it takes is one, whether a grandfather, father or even an uncle or close family friend.
Most (not all) Asian parents of the previous generations, especially immigrants , will see sports as nothing more than a hobby, not something to pursue as a career. So that's an immediate lack of the kind of dedicated support a young player could really use.
Most (not all) Asian parents of the previous generations, especially immigrants , will see sports as nothing more than a hobby, not something to pursue as a career. So that's an immediate lack of the kind of dedicated support a young player could really use.
I will watch the video - but I don't necessarily blame the parents. It's just that the parents love cricket more than football - therefor the kids are introduced in to football too late. No parents taking their kids out to play football. Forget the educational perspective.
I see that changing though - the new generation of Asian dads love football more than cricket after being introduced themselves too late & will get their kids playing & watching football earlier than their parents did.
That's a bit stereotypical.
I don’t know. Im only saying that they are not interested isnt the only thing because there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.
I can already see it in my own family. I have 3 nephews and 1 niece who are all about the 7-8 age, and they've all been involved in some sort of organised football since they were able to stand and run.
One of the big things they have gained is, that their parents made friends with other keen football parents. So they always know if theres a local club or a tournament running. They're obviously not pushing them to be professionals, but they're all passionate about their kids just being involved and having fun.
Well I'm not sure how.
I had plenty friends who their dad's would take to cricket tournaments when they were young but wouldn't take them to football because the dad themselves did not enjoy it.
These kids get introduced to football at high school afeer talking about it with their friends & playing it at school - then they build an interest. However their family still are not that interested in it so they don't get the support the way that Pogba's family must have given support to have 2 cjildren in the family playing football professionallly.
As I said - these kids that have a late introduction of football but love it won't make that happen to their children.
Whilst my dad took me to Lords cricket ground - he wouldn't bother taking me to old Trafford because he didn't care about it. I did all that with me & my brother afeer we built an interest in football during the high school period. Now when we have children - I am more interested in football than cricket - so will likely take them to old Trafford more than Lords cricket ground. They get exposure early & practice early.
Also Neil Taylor (Indian descent) made over 100 PL appearances for Swansea and played in Wales Euro 2016 semi finalist team and Neil Etheridge emerging as a good goalkeeper at PL level this year.
Yeh I mean professionally I think no matter the country or race a family come from are going to push for an educational approach because these things are set in stone from the moment someone starts school.
However, the whole exposure to football is increasing from a younger age in the newer generations - so if a young kid who has played & watched football from the age of 4 is able to make the grade - they are more likely to get the support due to the family themselves growing up alongside football than say cricket.
I used to play football in high school with Asian and he was brilliant. United offered him trials but his dad told him to reject the opportunity. Guess they listen to their elders and if they say no then it doesn't happen.
Also, I could be well wayward with this but aren't Muslims supposed to cover there skin at all times from the waist down? So showing their knees in football shorts was a no no.
Also, I could be well wayward with this but aren't Muslims supposed to cover there skin at all times from the waist down? So showing their knees in football shorts was a no no.
I'm not the oracle but my work gives me some insight into a number of issues such as this one. What you are talking about is something that was more applicable in 70's and 80's. We are now talking 3rd and 4th generation parents who's own parents when to school in the Uk.
There are lots of factors but manly in a numbers one. The pool is shallow one and whilst 25% might be non white, there is a significant numbers that actually weren't born in the Uk You can see this at every level of Utd and City's youth teams are made up of young men originally from the African continent.
Theres loads of reasons for this in my opinion.
A lot of Asians not wanting to mix and intergrate with non asians and "kafirs",racism, a lot mainly indians and sri lankans valuing education and pushing their kids towards that rather than sport and a lot arent really that good.
I play with Asians in London now and again and one thing I have noticed is that they have all the tools but not the right execution.
A lot tend to be very greedy on the ball as well.
A lot of Asians not wanting to mix and intergrate with non asians and "kafirs",racism, a lot mainly indians and sri lankans valuing education and pushing their kids towards that rather than sport and a lot arent really that good.
I play with Asians in London now and again and one thing I have noticed is that they have all the tools but not the right execution.
A lot tend to be very greedy on the ball as well.
That's fair it being 70's 80's gen - but it's not all suddenly going to burst in to popularity suddenly either.
My parents came in to England in the 70's & 80's - I'm still only 28 - born in the nightys & had no introduction of football from them. It was purely me at high-school +exposure from my friends & TV.
Now my kids are more likely to grow up with football than say i was with my parents.
Spot on. In boxing my town had Amir Khan who is clearly an Asian boxer. This clearly raise the profile of the sport and him opening a gym locally in the town helped also. Although his gym was attended by Asian lads, 10 years on or so, didn't generate any professional or top amateur boxers cause despite what colour or culture, there are so many factors that have nothing to do with culture or colour to be a professional player at any sport....
This is literally one of the many jokes I heard when I trained when I was a kid.
I switched to playing hockey because at least some of the older people were Asian and whilst teasing happened, I wasn't singled out for being brown.
I played for 15 years, with and against internationals, I'm a goalie and I'm 6'5". Make of that what you will.
Multiple factors.
1. Most of us are more focused on getting an education or learning skills that will get you a job. As immigrants the main motivation behind migrating was economics.
2. Racism. I know black people have experienced it too, just this weekend you have Millwall fans chanting about Pakis. It kept my generation and that older than me from feeling a real sense of belonging.
3. Genetics. We're not as naturally athletic as other people, our diets aren't typically that suited to our current lifestyles. That's not to say we're not all capable physically, but it's not like we're naturally athletic, as say some people from afro carribean backgrounds are, or how certain Kenyan tribes are good at long distances.
4. In Pakistani culture sport is considered a form of play rather than a profession.
1. Most of us are more focused on getting an education or learning skills that will get you a job. As immigrants the main motivation behind migrating was economics.
2. Racism. I know black people have experienced it too, just this weekend you have Millwall fans chanting about Pakis. It kept my generation and that older than me from feeling a real sense of belonging.
3. Genetics. We're not as naturally athletic as other people, our diets aren't typically that suited to our current lifestyles. That's not to say we're not all capable physically, but it's not like we're naturally athletic, as say some people from afro carribean backgrounds are, or how certain Kenyan tribes are good at long distances.
4. In Pakistani culture sport is considered a form of play rather than a profession.
First year in secondary school the most skilled players were a twin pair of Sri Lankan Doctors kids, but their parents were already pushing them to put all their energies into their schooling. Did not help that they barely grew between 11-14 and were probably 5"2 when doing their A Levels.
Cultural icons make a big difference, a number of Asian background players becoming significant PL players opens doors and allows kids dreams to seem achievable.
Off-tropic, but what did you make of De Gea's performance against Spurs? Was it great goalkeeping in your eyes or more poor finishing?
It's consistently De Gea because of his decision making and positioning well in advance of the save.
It's also why he's best not trying to be a sweeper keeper like Lloris, as it'd put him in positions that would make him look a lot more ordinary.