Why British Asians don't make it pro

[Litch]

That's fair it being 70's 80's gen - but it's not all suddenly going to burst in to popularity suddenly either.

My parents came in to England in the 70's & 80's - I'm still only 28 - born in the nightys & had no introduction of football from them. It was purely me at high-school +exposure from my friends & TV.

Now my kids are more likely to grow up with football than say i was with my parents.

We have children grown up in villages in Africa that have no exposure to football but look at the high proportionate numbers of black players from that continent across Europe. Take Pogba, he is Guinean and equally Muslim. Also we talk about exposure but we are talking about a sport that has the greatest exposure. We are talking about a sport that's played for 12 months a year both in and out education by every class, colour, gender and religion. It's not exposure for me, if you are white and middle classed, young lad that plays football for school and for Saturday league team at a good level, there's still less than a 00000000000% of becoming a prof footballer. If you are Asian, you are starting from an even shallower pool.

Let's not forget too that some football clubs still have old stereotypical views about Asian players too. We are still debating why we haven't got enough black managers and they played professionally......

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Because they're not good enough. There may be various reasons for that, but if they were good enough they'd make it.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

We have children grown up in villages in Africa that have no exposure to football but look at the high proportionate numbers of black players from that continent across Europe. Take Pogba, he is Guinean and equally Muslim. Also we talk about exposure but we are talking about a sport that has the greatest exposure. We are talking about a sport that's played for 12 months a year both in and out education by every class, colour, gender and religion. It's not exposure for me, if you are white and middle classed, young lad that plays football for school and for Saturday league team at a good level, there's still less than a 00000000000% of becoming a prof footballer. If you are Asian, you are starting from an even shallower pool.

Let's not forget too that some football clubs still have old stereotypical views about Asian players too. We are still debating why we haven't got enough black managers and they played professionally......

Well I see it a tad differently. I see kids in Africa playing with nothing but a football. They don't play rugby, they don't play cricket - they play a very minimal level of football with low exposure - but still enough for some to make the grade in Europe.

In Asia - India & Sri Lanka & Pakistan - do you see a single football in the street? I'd say its so bad that they wouldn't even know what a football is. Though they play cricket with makeshift wickets & tennis balls.

I look at Brazil & their Slums - neymar grew up there playing football in a very minimal way, same in France, same in Germany, same in Italy etc - you look at their streets & what to they tend to play? Football.

It's not the same in Asia & in comparison to Africa there is still a significant difference.

Even if country wise they may not have a single legend to look up to - an African can look at Drogba, Zaha & et00 & even some of the older guys in the 80s gen. Asians don't have a single legend to look up to & have no exposure on the streets.

Best chance is that Asians in England grow alongside with the increase in interest & make the step up & hopefully one day influence their root countries.

 

[Charles Miller]

I assume its due to the priorities in those communities as some said here. Also an off topic but, here in South America when we say Asians in general we are referring only to chinese, japanese, koreans..Of course geographically its wrong.

 

[RedTiger]

I will watch the video - but I don't necessarily blame the parents. It's just that the parents love cricket more than football - therefor the kids are introduced in to football too late. No parents taking their kids out to play football. Forget the educational perspective.

I see that changing though - the new generation of Asian dads love football more than cricket after being introduced themselves too late & will get their kids playing & watching football earlier than their parents did.

You're putting way too much emphasis on cricket. For many people of Asian background, cricket doesn't even factor.

 

[Litch]

Multiple factors.

1. Most of us are more focused on getting an education or learning skills that will get you a job. As immigrants the main motivation behind migrating was economics.

2. Racism. I know black people have experienced it too, just this weekend you have Millwall fans chanting about Pakis. It kept my generation and that older than me from feeling a real sense of belonging.

3. Genetics. We're not as naturally athletic as other people, our diets aren't typically that suited to our current lifestyles. That's not to say we're not all capable physically, but it's not like we're naturally athletic, as say some people from afro carribean backgrounds are, or how certain Kenyan tribes are good at long distances.

4. In Pakistani culture sport is considered a form of play rather than a profession.

1. Again very stereotypical. Proportionally, the highest growing prison community is Asian. Maybe a different type of motivation then? Have you seen the economics around professional football too....
2. Didn't seem to hinder the African and African Caribbean communities from this country and beyond who equally suffered the same?
3. So stereotypical again. Asia is a big place so what about Chinese players? Thats not dissimilar to why they started the song about Rom. Just rubbish stereotypical view...
4. So Pakistani culture doesn't include professional cricketers and the Large amount made in one day cricket?

 

[Habs]

More important and achievable to become a Doctor/Lawyer, then waste your time pissing about playing football, is probably the reason. Lets be honest, becoming a professional footballer is ridiculously hard even if you're incredibly talented, you still need to have connections and luck on your side to make it. Too big a gamble as you have to literally give up any higher education to properly pursue a career with no guarantees whatsoever

 

[Dumbstar]

Just another documentary 'talking' about it. See you back in here in another 10 years time.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

You're putting way too much emphasis on cricket. For many people of Asian background, cricket doesn't even factor.

Fair enough. China, South Korea & Japan in my eyes play more football than say cricket. India, Sri lanlka & Pakistan play cricket more than football. These countries second sports tend to be rugby as well - football is well down the list to the point they won't know what a football is in their countries never mind knowing a team in a whole different continent.

I'd say similar things with Australia. Have a decent football team due to a western type culture but they are much stronger in cricket & rugby.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

The term 'British Asian' needs to be sacked off. Asia is a huge continent with huge variations in culture between countries (and even within countries themselves).

To use a blanket term to describe anyone with ethnicity originating from that part of the world is stupid. It basically has the same meaning as 'that brown person over there'.

 

[Litch]

Well I see it a tad differently. I see kids in Africa playing with nothing but a football. They don't play rugby, they don't play cricket - they play a very minimal level of football with low exposure - but still enough for some to make the grade in Europe.

In Asia - India & Sri Lanka & Pakistan - do you see a single football in the street? I'd say its so bad that they wouldn't even know what a football is. Though they play cricket with makeshift wickets & tennis balls.

I look at Brazil & their Slums - neymar grew up there playing football in a very minimal way, same in France, same in Germany, same in Italy etc - you look at their streets & what to they tend to play? Football.

It's not the same in Asia & in comparison to Africa there is still a significant difference.

Even if country wise they may not have a single legend to look up to - an African can look at Drogba, Zaha & et00 & even some of the older guys in the 80s gen. Asians don't have a single legend to look up to & have no exposure on the streets.

Best chance is that Asians in England grow alongside with the increase in interest & make the step up & hopefully one day influence their root countries.

It's not exposure just more popularity. It's different. Most boxers look at Ali as a huge influence but are black. Some aren't American either. Some started their career because of him but equally never made it cause simply, they weren't good enough. There are bigger factors than what country you come from...which is the only exclusive thing that separates that community from others. Didn't seen to have the same influence on Chinese players or shouldn't they be playing table tennis....

 

[RedTiger]

This is literally one of the many jokes I heard when I trained when I was a kid.

I switched to playing hockey because at least some of the older people were Asian and whilst teasing happened, I wasn't singled out for being brown.

I played for 15 years, with and against internationals, I'm a goalie and I'm 6'5". Make of that what you will.

You've touched on something that I've wanted to say but thought it would be controversial. Many Asians are mentally weak in that we can't take abuse on the nose, if we can avoid certain abuse then we avoid it. It's why the vast majority of Asians in this country play in exclusive Asian leagues and competitions. Go to any major playing fields in the country on a Sunday and you'll find Asians playing football, but they're mostly playing with other Asians.

My son is an example, he's been playing since midday and only came back an hour ago. My son used to play for our local non league side's youth team but 2 years ago he left because he didn't like some of the things the opposition would say to him during matches. He still loves football but only plays with an Asian team now.

 

[Litch]

More important and achievable to become a Doctor/Lawyer, then waste your time pissing about playing football, is probably the reason. Lets be honest, becoming a professional footballer is ridiculously hard even if you're incredibly talented, you still need to have connections and luck on your side to make it. Too big a gamble as you have to literally give up any higher education to properly pursue a career with no guarantees whatsoever

Massive fall out of Asian students in education too...

 

[RochaRoja]

The term 'British Asian' needs to be sacked off. Asia is a huge continent with huge variations in culture between countries (and even within countries themselves).

To use a blanket term to describe anyone with ethnicity originating from that part of the world is stupid. It basically has the same meaning as 'that brown person over there'.

While it’s a broad and ambiguous term, most Asians living in western countries self-identify as Asian.

 

[Litch]

You've touched on something that I've wanted to say but thought it would be controversial. Many Asians are mentally weak in that we can't take abuse on the nose, if we can avoid certain abuse then we avoid it. It's why the vast majority of Asians in this country play in exclusive Asian leagues and competitions. Go to any major playing fields in the country on a Sunday and you'll find Asians playing football, but they're mostly playing with other Asians.

My son is an example, he's been playing since midday and only came back an hour ago. My son used to play for our local non league side's youth team but 2 years ago he left because he didn't like some of the things the opposition would say to him during matches. He still loves football but only plays with an Asian team now.

Mentally weak? That's absolute bullshit and I'm not Asian

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

The lawyer/doctor/accountant stereotype may lend one to think that the majority of brown kids are upstanding, highly educated professionals whom are bred simply to go to University then get a good job. The truth is anything but.

While it’s a broad and ambiguous term, most Asians living in western countries self-identify as Asian.

In the UK, I can assure you they certainly do not.

 

[RedTiger]

In the UK, I can assure you they certainly do not.

Of course the majority of us self identify as Asian.

 

[Litch]

While it’s a broad and ambiguous term, most Asians living in western countries self-identify as Asian.

Yep but even more ambiguous as self-identity makes it even more so. How do we know how people choose to identify themselves? I think you'd find that's how others choose to define them. Not sure if asked most on here would describe themselves as 'white' British? Or British Church of England....? I think most would say just 'British'

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Of course the majority of us self identify as Asian.

To the same extent that Europeans identify as European.

Indians will always primarily identify as Indians, same with Pakistanis, Bengalis, Arabs so on and so forth

 

[RedTiger]

To the same extent that Europeans identify as European.

Indians will always primarily identify as Indians, same with Pakistanis, Bengalis, Arabs so on and so forth

Yeah that's also true.

 

[Litch]

The lawyer/doctor/accountant stereotype may lend one to think that the majority of brown kids are upstanding, highly educated professionals whom are bred simply to go to University then get a good job. The truth is anything but

In the UK, I can assure you they certainly do not.

Like I said proportionately one of the fastest growing prison populations in prison are 'Asian'.....not lawyers or Doctors

 

[limerickcitykid]

I always like the arguments about how sick your Indian mate down 5-aside is, as if it is relevant or proves anything.

 

[Litch]

To the same extent that Europeans identify as European.

Indians will always primarily identify as Indians, same with Pakistanis, Bengalis, Arabs so on and so forth

Topical but not sure how many British identify as European? Mostly it's about how others identify where you are from than how you define yourself. That said if asked some would prefer English than British.
How we chose to identify ourselves became more important when governments started to ask/want to identify who lives in their country.....

 

[Litch]

I always like the arguments about how sick your Indian mate down 5-aside is, as if it is relevant or proves anything.

I know. If the kid only knew that his ability would be the barometer for why Asians don't make professional footballers. It's ok though cause at least he can be a doctor or lawyer.....

 

[Habs]

Massive fall out of Asian students in education too...

Based on what source exactly, and what point are you making from my post? Theres always been less Asians/Black people in higher education for a variety of reasons. If there is a decrease in numbers now the main reason is most likely the increase in University fee's combined with getting rid of all the grants that these guys would generally need as most would be from a poorer background.

The lawyer/doctor/accountant stereotype may lend one to think that the majority of brown kids are upstanding, highly educated professionals whom are bred simply to go to University then get a good job. The truth is anything but.



In the UK, I can assure you they certainly do not.

So what is the truth?

 

[Adisa]

One word, cricket.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Yeah that's also true.

The point being that the term 'British Asian' essentially overlooks those cultural differences and places all of these quite different demographics into the same basket, despite clear cultural differences.

If you're trying to get examine the reason as to why ethnically Asian people do not feature in the highest levels of football then removing the assumption that they undergo the same upbringings, expectations and cultural practices is the very first thing you should do.

Like I said proportionately one of the fastest growing prison populations in prison are 'Asian'.....not lawyers or Doctors

Indeed. Areas with a predominantly Asian demographic in some of the biggest cities in the UK are some of the poorest in the country.

So what is the truth?

That the assumption that 'Asian' kids are all pushed into higher education as de facto and discouraged from playing sport is wrong.

 

[Cassidy]

So what is the truth?

Take a trip to tower hamlets or newham in London and find out, just like any other group they are a diverse bunch

 

[Litch]

Based on what source exactly, and what point are you making from my post? Theres always been less Asians/Black people in higher education for a variety of reasons. If there is a decrease in numbers now the main reason is most likely the increase in University fee's combined with getting rid of all the grants that these guys would generally need as most would be from a poorer background.



So what is the truth?

Occupational hazard rather than a personal opinion. The point I'm making is most of these discussions are based on stereotypical views than anything else. The point being made by some that education is more important than sports when poverty is probably a bigger factor. Majority number of Asian communities live in the 5% of the most deprived communities in England. Like I said, there are other factors that influence the opportunities.....

Anyone that's says cricket, poor Asians aren't playing cricket anymore than they are playing football.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

One word, cricket.

Another stereotype.

More Asians play football than cricket. Football is way more popular amongst Asian youths.

 

[Adisa]

Another stereotype.

More Asians play football than cricket. Football is way more popular amongst Asian youths.

Probably my view is somewhat tainted. Vast majority of my friends play cricket as a hobby rather than football. When I went to Indiana, I spent three months. I didn't see kids playing football once. All I saw the kids playing, even on the street was cricket.
My friends do love football and support teams but most of them don't play. I have just assumed that happens with kids as well.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Probably my view is somewhat tainted. Vast majority of my friends play cricket as a hobby rather than football. When I went to India, I spent three months. I didn't see kids playing football once. All I saw the kids playing, even on the street was cricket.

In India you're definitely right. Football is unheard of. Same can't be said in the UK.

 

[0le]

I think there needs to be a distinction between South Asia and East Asia.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

I kinda get why many people saying cricket.

I get cricket is popular in India but guys and girls growing up here play what their peers play in the playground, which is football in the winter and sometimes cricket in the summer when it's too hot to run around.

When we get to playing for teams outside of our friend groups, it feels to me we are easier accepted into traditionally colonial sports like cricket, hockey and even rugby than we are in to football

 

[Zlatattack]

1. Again very stereotypical. Proportionally, the highest growing prison community is Asian. Maybe a different type of motivation then? Have you seen the economics around professional football too....
2. Didn't seem to hinder the African and African Caribbean communities from this country and beyond who equally suffered the same?

3. So stereotypical again. Asia is a big place so what about Chinese players? Thats not dissimilar to why they started the song about Rom. Just rubbish stereotypical view...

4. So Pakistani culture doesn't include professional cricketers and the Large amount made in one day cricket?

First of all, every single such conversion is somewhat based on stereotype. I think as someone of Pakistani descent I'm well placed to comment on such stereotypes.

To address your points;

1. The chances of becoming a Premier league footballer is very low. The odds don't make economic sense. Having a degree in a STEM subject, IT or another profession makes you much more likely to be better off economically than being a footballer. As for those in prison most of them are there for fraud or drug dealing - again chasing paper.

2. How many chants in the stands today use the word nigger? Hatred towards Asians, particularly towards Muslims is becoming increasingly normalised. Black people had to face the same challenges but had greater cultural similarities so maybe were more inclined to try and succeed. Most Asian people aren't that fussed. I can provide you examples of under 10s teams facing racial abuse because they're Muslim. Players being attacked and oppo fans encouraging it. This is what those of us who wander into Sunday league face.

3. Asian in the British context refers primarily to Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis. Not saying we don't have British Asians from other communities but this is typically what we mean when we say British Asian. I'm not saying it's not a stereotype, but all stereotypes have some truth to them.

4. Not really it doesn't. Kids play cricket fanatically but very few go pro. It's a generally a rich man's game. The domestic league is weak, the national team is fueled by the fact cricket is a national obsession for 220 million people. You're bound to find some raw talent. The pro setup is weak, nothing compared to the big teams like India, Australia etc.

 

[Zlatattack]

My dad couldn't care less about cricket or football. He worked 7 days a week and enjoyed the odd John Wayne movie.

I grew up loving football but never played for the school team or after school clubs or even a kids league because I had no support from my parents to get involved as they considered it a waste of time (though Karate and Twaekondo weren't).

If my kids were interested in football (my daughter goes to sports club at school) I'd support them, as long as they didn't compromise thier studies.

In my family the third generation will get the chance a typical white kid might have got 40 years ago. People my age are taking thier kids to the Sunday league (despite the discrimination). In 10-15 years time I suspect you'll see a proportionate number of British Asian players.

 

[Devil81]

Used to play a team from Hulme back in my playing days that was a mix of cultures and they had a few Asian lads that it's hard to believe weren't playing professional football at the time.

I always assumed it was a cultural thing, maybe their fathers prefer them to concentrate on a more realistic career. That is what I thought at the time and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if that was the actual reason.

 

[Dante]

Asian kids tend to be less able to develop muscle in their early to mid teens. That's the age at which it's decided whether you can make the cut.

 

[Mr.Plow]

The term 'British Asian' needs to be sacked off. Asia is a huge continent with huge variations in culture between countries (and even within countries themselves).

To use a blanket term to describe anyone with ethnicity originating from that part of the world is stupid. It basically has the same meaning as 'that brown person over there'.

Ridiculous how ready to be offended people are.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Is this a thread full of white people guessing about the experiences of Britain’s Asian population?