That's why I voted for Muller.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Well in my eyes Ronaldo is superior. Hence my vote. On the other hand there's not a lot to say about Ronaldo that everyone doesn't already know. But Muller never seems to be bought up in the GOAT discussions, which is wrong as he is highly deserving of praise. Hence my comment about him.
Gerd muller's achievements and statistics with NT dwarf that of both Messi and Cristiano. One of the most, if not the most, underrated footballers
I'm actually waiting for a Ronaldo vs Ralph Milne poll so that all the Messi fan boys can vote for Ralph.
Voted Ronaldo but it’s unfair for me to judge Muller only based on stats and a few highlights from International tournaments.
This is spot on.
People only judge Pele from a few clips from the 1970 World Cup. (He was 30 at the time). That's like judging Messi on last years World Cup (Russia 2018).
Pele's peak was 1958-64. If anyone can find clips of the era, you will see why he was the greatest.
But that's it - it's a clip show. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are probably the two most scrutinized footballers of all time, yet they stack up against anyone. IMLTHO they are the two best players I've ever seen and I'm old.
That’s if you judge football players by their stats... which is completely stupid. They’re completely different players, literally nothing alike, their impact and style of playing is completely different and a direct comparison makes no sense.
It’s like saying Lampard and Robben are similar players because they scored a similar amount of goals... what sort of logic is that?
Only reason this comparison comes up often is the standard Messi propaganda of seeing forwards as scoring goals + being creative while ignoring their impact and ability in all different facets of the game due to a complete lack of understanding about how the sport works.
Both incredible players in their own way though, that’s for sure. And it is very much true that Gerd Muller doesn’t get the respect and admiration he deserves. Definitely one of the best players in history.
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Ronaldo is the better player, of course, but I think the Muller comparisons are so spot on. Two of the greatest goalscorers/poachers of all time but can't seriously be compared to more all round players like Messi, Maradona or Cruyff.
Using stats to compare both players is the same tool used by Ronaldo or Messi fans to dismiss their achievements. Or numbers of trophies. The only difference is to make a comparison between players from different eras.
The issue with all these comparison things is the lack of context. You can hardly compare two individuals and their stats as standalones when you are dealing with a team sport.
Let's say you are making an all-time XI, that will have the likes of Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, etc competing for a spot. In that context one of Müller or van Basten is the no-brainer #9 (ahead of Nazario as well, for all his considerable talent).
Cristiano? Not sure he would get in it at all, the chemistry may not be there. Bear in mind how effective he has been with Benzema essentially playing as a pivot for him to shine.
Now, if you told me I had to build a team and have no idea who my other ten players would be I would pick Cristiano ahead of der Bomber without a shadow of a doubt. I'd be more confident he could win a game all by himself.
Let's say you are making an all-time XI, that will have the likes of Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, etc competing for a spot. In that context one of Müller or van Basten is the no-brainer #9 (ahead of Nazario as well, for all his considerable talent).
Cristiano? Not sure he would get in it at all, the chemistry may not be there. Bear in mind how effective he has been with Benzema essentially playing as a pivot for him to shine.
Now, if you told me I had to build a team and have no idea who my other ten players would be I would pick Cristiano ahead of der Bomber without a shadow of a doubt. I'd be more confident he could win a game all by himself.
Can’t wait for Ronaldo vs Inzaghi in a few days the way Messi fanboys are going.
Can’t wait for Ronaldo vs Inzaghi in a few days the way Messi fanboys are going.
Inzaghi all day long.
Can’t wait for Ronaldo vs Inzaghi in a few days the way Messi fanboys are going.
As a note, you could make a functional team with this front three:
-------- Gerd Muller--------
C.Ronaldo-------------Messi
It's really pointless to compare such different players. Even comparing Messi to Ronaldo is a bit off, really. They could fit the same eleven, they do different things on the pitch and occupy different spaces.
-------- Gerd Muller--------
C.Ronaldo-------------Messi
It's really pointless to compare such different players. Even comparing Messi to Ronaldo is a bit off, really. They could fit the same eleven, they do different things on the pitch and occupy different spaces.
Your two posts in the thread so far have mentioned Messi, who is completely and utterly irrelevant to this thread. He’s not being discussed so don’t bring your toxicity into here. I asked for you to be tagged because from what I can tell, Muller exhibited all the things that you say happens when a player has a proper understanding of the sport I.e. movement, adapting to teammates.
Can’t wait for Ronaldo vs Inzaghi in a few days the way Messi fanboys are going.
@totaalvoetbal watched both players.
Why does Ronaldo always get compared to strikers: Muller, Ronaldo Brazil etc? To me that just suggest people highly underrate other parts of his game and see him as some goal machine upfront.
He wasn't underrated when he was playing. He was feared, and rightly so.
Let’s see those PM’s
@Peyroteo calm down. What are you trying to achieve with this? This kind of post doesn’t help at all to solve any kind of problem. This is a football forum don’t take this so personally.
Report the PMs. Problem solved.
@Peyroteo are you ever going to reply to @Zehner post?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/messi-v-ronaldo.400526/page-341#post-23675562
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/messi-v-ronaldo.400526/page-341#post-23675562
I have asked you for your input on Gerd Müller and his abilities at recognizing the space/adapting to teammates, the same way in which you praise Ronaldo.Messi is irrelevant to this thread? The only reason this thread was made is because of Messi
For the 100th different time, please stop interacting with me and leave me alone. Please...
How many times do I have to ask?
You even said you had me on ignore and now you’re replying to me again? What the feck happened?
Clearly you have nothing but hatred for me and my posts so please put me on ignore and move on with your life.
I’ll ask you again to provide your opinion again and keep it on topic.
Again? I’ve already said everything I had to say about it, he can probably reply to it himself by now.
Made the same points I’ve already answered to countless times and made up the same close minded and romanticized version of the sport as usual.
There’s nothing to be said that wasn’t said already.
Once again it depends on the team you want. If you play in a more defesnive team that creates fewer chances I would pick Gerd Muller.
In terms of goal scoring I would put Gerd Muller above Cristiano.
Funny enough Gerd Muller's heading technique was not that far below Cristaino Ronaldo's, who is arguably the best forward in the history of the sport when it comes to aerial prowess.
If I had to pick one for a final I would pick Gerd Muller. He was just monstrous in finals. I know it all too well unfortunately...
Difficult to compare. Different earas, different balls, different offside rules etc
In the box Gerd Muller is arguably the best I have ever seen. He also acted as a 'false 9' and played as a defensive midfielder in some games!!
In terms of versatility and away from the box, I would pick Cristiano.
In terms of goal scoring I would put Gerd Muller above Cristiano.
Funny enough Gerd Muller's heading technique was not that far below Cristaino Ronaldo's, who is arguably the best forward in the history of the sport when it comes to aerial prowess.
If I had to pick one for a final I would pick Gerd Muller. He was just monstrous in finals. I know it all too well unfortunately...
Difficult to compare. Different earas, different balls, different offside rules etc
In the box Gerd Muller is arguably the best I have ever seen. He also acted as a 'false 9' and played as a defensive midfielder in some games!!
In terms of versatility and away from the box, I would pick Cristiano.
Good answer.
Easy. If you said something bad to him in the past retract yourself. If you feel he has done something to you who was unfair demand the same. Easy easy.
Of course Muller deserves praise for that... he’s still nowhere near as good as Ronaldo is at it though and so what? There are plenty of different things that make a player.
Just because I think heading is important doesn’t mean Shawcross is better than Pele ffs.
Now, please, for the sake of this place, put me on ignore.
Where would you rank Gerd Muller in terms of strikers? Like all time.
I was hoping to engage you in some proper conversation around a topic I was sure you had good input on, you know actually recognizing your potential for contribution.
That's pretty fair to be honest. In terms of finals, the first bet I ever made was for Holland to win the World Cup in 1974. So yeah! I remember Muller in finals too.
As an aside, not sure if this is used in England any more since I've been gone a long time but to get "mullered" back in the day was to get absolutely hammered, beaten etc... This comes from a reference to "Der Bomber."
Hmmm.
I generally don't like to make 'absolute' statements like saying this player is THE best etc
I would rank him at the very pinnacle of the elite centre forwards that I have seen. In terms of effeciency in the box he probably the best I have seen. He was a very strange player to watch...
Unquestionably you have to be better to put up Ronaldo numbers now than you would have had to be to do so in the old days, especially the 60s and 70s.
Since Ronaldo's debut, how many players have hit 500 career goals in top level club football? Probably 3 - him, Messi and Zlatan. How many others are anywhere near? Suarez is around 100 off at 31, Aguero (30) 150 off, Higuian (31) 200 off, Lewandowski (30) 150 off, Cavani (31) 150 off, Benzema (31) 210 off. David Villa is somehow still playing and is still 130 off, Van Persie will retire this season 220 off, Rooney is currently 200 off. Henry retired with 360 club goals, Van Vistelrooy with 349, Raul with 404, Inzaghi with less than 300, Ronaldo Nazairo with 352. These are the best strikers/forwards of the last 20 years and only Neymar has a decent shot of making 500 if he hits 25+ a season for the next 8 years.
In and around Muller's era there were at least a dozen players who were well into the 400 club and knocking on the door of 500, goals were simply a lot more forthcoming than they are in the modern game. You also have to remember that Muller scored about 90 of his career goals in two seasons where he was playing in regional leagues where many of the teams he faced were semi-professional or amateur. 8% of his total club goal tally stated in OP was achieved in one season in the 7th division of German football, which is basically like if you'd set an 18 year old Ronaldo against South Shields F.C or Whitby Town instead of Arsenal, Chelsea etc.
Since Ronaldo's debut, how many players have hit 500 career goals in top level club football? Probably 3 - him, Messi and Zlatan. How many others are anywhere near? Suarez is around 100 off at 31, Aguero (30) 150 off, Higuian (31) 200 off, Lewandowski (30) 150 off, Cavani (31) 150 off, Benzema (31) 210 off. David Villa is somehow still playing and is still 130 off, Van Persie will retire this season 220 off, Rooney is currently 200 off. Henry retired with 360 club goals, Van Vistelrooy with 349, Raul with 404, Inzaghi with less than 300, Ronaldo Nazairo with 352. These are the best strikers/forwards of the last 20 years and only Neymar has a decent shot of making 500 if he hits 25+ a season for the next 8 years.
In and around Muller's era there were at least a dozen players who were well into the 400 club and knocking on the door of 500, goals were simply a lot more forthcoming than they are in the modern game. You also have to remember that Muller scored about 90 of his career goals in two seasons where he was playing in regional leagues where many of the teams he faced were semi-professional or amateur. 8% of his total club goal tally stated in OP was achieved in one season in the 7th division of German football, which is basically like if you'd set an 18 year old Ronaldo against South Shields F.C or Whitby Town instead of Arsenal, Chelsea etc.
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What do you mean when you say strange?
He’s the only player I’ve seen control the ball lying on the ground and finish whilst still lying on the ground.
True.
True.
True.
True.
True.
Cristiano Ronaldo vs Ferenz Puskas next
If we are purely discussing poacher Ronaldo v Poacher Muller.. then for me Muller edges it as his hold up play as a striker, his record in big games was unparalleled but obviously it is a fake discussion in many ways because we're having to restrict Ronaldo to a particular version of himself.
A genuine toe to toe comparison and Ronaldo is on another level.. we're talking a genuine all time great candidate irrespective of position whereas you couldn't say the same about Muller.
A genuine toe to toe comparison and Ronaldo is on another level.. we're talking a genuine all time great candidate irrespective of position whereas you couldn't say the same about Muller.
Ah Messi fanboys.. tedious beyond belief. If anything you'd be arguing the opposite - it's Messi fans that routinely say Ronaldo only scores goals and Messi's the better all round player. For me it's Ronaldo's all round play (starting from United, not just Madrid) that puts him up there.